Adding to last week’s episode about resolutions, Kasie talks about one of the 5 that most people look to change – money. Just like last time, this episode is more about the mental state behind building and sustaining wealth versus the principles a person must do to accumulate it. She discusses with Chris what wealth really is and about five concepts that you would go through when trying to achieve it. One key to think about when listening is that wealth is not just about money.
Tune in to see How to Live Wealthy Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- What really is Wealth? Kasie likes the definition she found because it includes valuable possessions or money.
- Emotionally healthy follow wealth and not money.
- Usually, no matter how much money you make, you will spend it.
- Concept I: It takes money to live
- Comparison is the death of Joy. Be content with what you have.
- Concept II: Money can create problems.
- Most people have to spend more time to accumulate money which means they are neglecting family, friends, and self.
- There becomes a time when there is a shift from building wealth to protecting wealth.
- Concept III: The trap of Get Rich Quick.
- Concept IV: If you want to make money you have to eliminate debt.
- What is your relationship with Money?
- Concept V: Where to start with your financial goals.
- Communication…
- Set your goals…
- Spending time with others…
- what habits are you teaching…
- What are some of the things you can compromise on…
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Episode #171 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody. Welcome to through and therapists, eyes Neil, man, a good Lord. How are you, man? I’m doing fine. Fine.nicely done. You’ll have to see the Facebook live for that reference. You’re supposed to ask me how I’m doing. How are you doing Chris now? I get to say I’m fine. Right. I figure from here I am better.
Now we, I wanted to start the show off this way to kind of explain where we’ve been. We have been, MIA man? I mean, it has been a weird beginning of 2022. I think the last show you saw on our feeds was when did it come out before new year’s right. It’d be from, I think it might have been either right
before Christmas or right
after [00:01:00] it was the holiday show.
Now y’all saw on the Facebook live. We did do another one that is going to be released to the public on the podcast side of what we do Monday. So yeah, it’s just been a time and I wanted to explain to you all, we, we just I, I think, you know,Omicrone thing is like missing from the clouds. And it’s just everywhere.
I think we’re in the states a couple of weeks behind the, the peaks in Europe over there, you guys have, have kind of led the way with this crazy thing. So I think you were down a little bit. I was down a little bit we just kind of made some decisions, like, look, we’re going to get ourselves together, fire it back up when we can get to it tonight as we’re getting to it.
And so we have practice what we, I try to preach with taking care of ourselves. So thanks for being patients with us. Kasie, thanks for hanging out and waiting on us, I guess. And Neil, thanks for Fort here. You held down the Fort. Well, you absolutely did. [00:02:00] I, I would agree with you and thank you publicly for that.
Yeah. Tried to buy you coffee, but nobody would go get coffee that didn’t work out. But Neil, I’m glad you’re feeling better, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so we’re back in the saddle. Welcome to through a therapist’s eyes where I like to say you get personal insights from a therapist in your own personal time in your car and at home see the world through the lens of a therapist this month, we have Kasie.
And so you get to see the world through the lens of two therapists help us with helping us get the show out to people. Five-star reviews, apple, iTunes. We’ve got a lot of cool things that we’re going to be doing this year, not ready to announce them, but I’m really excited. It is really a good time to tune into us with the email list to keep track of stuff.
We’ve got some neat things that we’re pushing out. We proved last year that we were able to start doing some new things with these cameras, Facebook lives and different things that we are growing. And, but we, you guys make that growth. That really makes a big deal and we need that. This is the year to really be [00:03:00] on point with that.
So give us some reviews, follow us on iTunes, apple Facebook respond to the quotes and posts we do that really makes a big difference. So let’s see, this is the human emotional experience. And I really like to say, let’s figure this thing out together because we really don’t do this alone. I thank you for listening for tuning in.
We’ve got 180 shows out now here in a minute or so we’ve been doing it for a minute and we enjoy doing it. So thanks for journeying along the ride with us. Kasie, let’s do a fun fact for you. So the audience gets to know you a little bit more. Yeah, I guess you’re talking about this cleaning things that I, should I set you up with that, like, is this a real thing that you do?
Like you do the, the, the teeth picking.
Kasie Morgan: Yes, I do. So on Amazon, you can get them a lot of different dental tools. I know. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: are you talking about the plastic picks that that are like floss and pick? My wife
Kasie Morgan: loves the no, no, no. I’m talking about the heavy duty [00:04:00] metal. Like there’s called a scaler. There’s a scaler.
And so I do that to prevent plaque in my gums where you have very nice teeth, I will say, thank you. My parents invested in my mouth when I was younger through the form of braces, retainers, Neil went to high school with me. He can attest to that fact that I had braces for a while. Yeah. It was like a whole like ugly duckling scenario.
So like, so now this is, this is what we’re left with. So I really am big on dental hygiene. Okay. Yeah. That’s fine fact.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, no wife was actually a, I was going to say a dental hygienist for a little while, but that’s not right. It’s been several years, but she was actually a dental assistant for a period of time.
She, and then she got back out of the, the ring with that. But yeah, she did that for a little while. She knows all those little tools and instruments and could probably tell you all the names and
Kasie Morgan: everything. Yeah, that is weird. Can I say that? Sure. That’s cool. Yeah. I mean, everybody has their thing, [00:05:00] so yeah.
I think two things can happen at the same time. You can be cool and weird. And I feel like normal is a setting on a dryer. So this is me. What you see is what you get, dude. Like that’s just who I am. So we
Chris Gazdik: have an interesting sort of we didn’t plan it this way, but when you look at the new years kind of topics, which I looked at that playback, I was proud of myself for that, man.
I nailed them nailed in the top five. I got four for four on things that people look at as far as new year’s resolutions and things that we talked about. Last show. I don’t have to get used to being a head. Now that’ll come out Monday.
You know, we covered the topic of money a few weeks ago, actually. And it’s funny because Kasie came to me, she’s like, Chris, you just did this topic. What are we doing? I’m like, I didn’t, I don’t know. They all blend together now for me, but we’re going to do a different thing, I think, as we go through this.
And, and so why don’t you go ahead and set up the flavor of how we’re going to [00:06:00] deal with, what did we call this money? Makes things more money,
Kasie Morgan: more problems, better aware of how to meet your financial goals in the new years. So kind of banking on what we talked about. The last show that we did two weeks ago, I took one of the five, top five new year’s resolutions.
And I did a deep dive into it. In fact, Chris even made some comments about the commentary that we print out. It’s like, it’s a dissertation.
Chris Gazdik: First thing
Kasie Morgan: Chris asks me is how are you going to keep track of time? I’m like, oh yeah, on my phone. But I promise that I’m not going to like preach a whole sermon here. And this is not going to be about, you know, like how to make money, keep money, things like that. It’s really going to be about a couple of interests that I have.
First of all, the concept of wealth, then we’ll, we’ll kind of get into an emotional side of what is it. And then also this was kind of born out of a story that I followed on [00:07:00] Netflix and actually traced back one of the houses of one of the participants of the story to Belmont Belmont north. So I do want to shout out one person.
Who’s my mentor, Chris, Steve. Because he alerted me to the fact that that person is actually like, was a local resident. At one point we don’t have a guest. Well we haven’t had a lot of guests lately. Okay. I’ll tell you why. Because this person is deceased. So that, and so we’re going to talk a little bit about that whole situation and how sometimes mo money leads to mo problems.
So that’s interesting. Yeah. And so I am a true crime junkie. So part of this was born out of that. And because I didn’t want to take the podcast freedom to make this a true crime episode,
Chris Gazdik: we’ll do that. We can’t do like TLC or, you know, the, the NBC show that they do all those crime shows on the day. Oh God.
The Dateline thing is it’s I can’t allow that. That would drive me nuts.
Kasie Morgan: Okay. That’s fine. But I [00:08:00] modified it and changed a little bit so we could incorporate some of those elements. Ooh.
Chris Gazdik: That guy totally has the awesome, his sleeping voice.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah, I listened to his podcast on the way in here. And if you like, you know, check us out, Dateline is a cool
Chris Gazdik: podcast.
I bet it is. I bet it is. That whole show is set up nicely
Kasie Morgan: for, I will never leave Metro on a psychotherapy and associates, but if I ever did, it would be to run that podcast with Les miles or whoever’s going to be on there. I can believe that for sure. So more money, more problems. Right. So first of all, I want to point out that I’m an, I’m an eighties baby that listened to a lot of music in the nineties and mace was a rap artist in the nineties and he had a song with P Diddy and big Papa.
Who’s my favorite rappers and the notorious BIG. So there’s any biggy fans out there. This was a song title that they had. The more money that comes to us, the more problems we see was one of the lines. So remember this,
Chris Gazdik: I know where you’re at with that now. Okay.
Kasie Morgan: So, [00:09:00] Chris, I kind of wanna start out this with a question to you.
Like, what is the word wealthy mean to you?
Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s a good question. And actually a as you were kind of laying out what we’re going to be into tonight, I think that the show a few weeks ago that Adam and I did was really talking a lot about that. So I think that we can short circuit through that a little bit, because we really did talk a lot about the, you know, the take that I took on money was, was really a lot of the emotional things.
So that’s still a little fresh on my brain. So I’m not really going to give you as good of a fresh, clear answer because it, it just, it, it goes a lot to, I think a lot of what we talked about with shame-based feelings and, you know, insecurities that get created and keeping up with the Joneses and a lot of those types of really pressured emotions that people very much feel about finances.
It, it just really, to me, you know, when you think about it, The emotional [00:10:00] aspects of it, which is where my slant is. People get tore up by this. Like, I, I feel like it’s one of the big stressors that people really get anxious about, loose sleep, about, worry about, try to, you know, get into fears about, so that’s I know that all sounds really pretty negative, but I can get that way, I think with people.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah, it definitely can. And so, you know, me in true Kasie fashion, I put some definitions that’s right, because
Chris Gazdik: you fit into our show perfectly.
Kasie Morgan: This is way I laugh. So what Websters would say is that wealth is defined as the abundance of valuable possessions or money. And I’m going to come back to that in a moment.
It also defined it as material prosperity. Or having an abundance of a particular resource such as oil, food things like that. So oil, wealth, food, wealth,
Chris Gazdik: little side note in Armageddon times when we get there, who knows with Omicrone and you know, the snow we have coming [00:11:00] again, this weekend salt makes you wealthy, In Armageddon times.
Did you know that that is like a precious resource that we don’t even think about nowadays and shows we’ll tell you about that because you can’t function in a society without salt.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. I’m pretty sure at this point, if there’s an actual apocalypse, I’m just going to be like, whatever, you know what I mean?
Like bring it, it’s fine. This is fine. We’ll be together in a tree somewhere. Exactly. Or in this office and just walk in and we have eight appointments. We walk in at a time and then we just
It’s like the walking dead now. Yeah. So what I think is cool about this definition, that particularly the first one is that it includes the word or. So it said valuable possessions or money. So I think I liked that part of the definition because I think when we think about what is wealth, we think about the accumulation of money and [00:12:00] assets, right.
But there are a lot of valuable possessions and I’m sure that Webster was not intending to go this deep, but there are a lot of valuable possessions about our lives that we don’t always consider when we look at the accumulation of wealth. So that’s something that we’re going to cover today and how it’s not just money based.
Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. There’s there’s,
Chris Gazdik: there’s, I’m just following you with you on that thought and to me, yeah. There’s a lot of things that can, can we say healthy men, emotionally healthy people follow wealth, not through money. I don’t think that’s too bad.
Kasie Morgan: A statement. I love that. Can you say it again?
Chris Gazdik: Emotionally healthy people follow. wealth, not through money. I think that’s an awesome quote, Neil, you got quotes, man. Yeah. Yeah. You
Kasie Morgan: better pin that down and make it a meme, put your face
Chris Gazdik: on it. Right. You [00:13:00] know, but if you think about the depths of that,
Kasie Morgan: it says a lot. It really does. And, and that’s exactly kind of where we’re going to hope to arrive by the end of this conversation.
They might drop boom. Yeah. Like, okay. We’re done by everybody. It’s been nice. And then great show. Oh, we’re all tired. But so I’ve worked a lot of jobs, you know, up until this point, my resume is kind of like ping pong a little bit. And so I’m in true millennial fashion. Right. So throw back to the generations discussion.
But but in one of my favorite times was when I was working inpatient mental health at a, at a local hospital in the states full region. Right. So when I was working inpatient mental health there, I worked for this doctor. He was amazing. His name was Dr. Bazinet. If you’re a. What up? He is fantastic.
He’s one of the best psychiatrist I’ve ever worked with in my entire life, which trust him with my life. And I asked him one time about like his just like things in personal life. We were just chit chatting one day and I’m like, oh, wow. Like you’re a psychiatry [00:14:00]
Chris Gazdik: hold phone. You were chit chatting. Of course
Kasie Morgan: I’m an expressive, that’s my love language thing.
Yeah. So I asked him one day, I was like, you know, like, wow, like you’re a psychiatrist or wife’s a pediatrician, like, like way to be balling, you know, lightweight way to do life. Right. And he looked at me and said the most simplistic statement, and I thought it was very profound. He said, honestly, you just spend the money that you have.
And I was like, wow. That is so true, right? Like, and you can live within your means and things like that. And so today I’m not really talking about like, what is living within your means and Dave Ramsey and all of that stuff. But I thought that that simple statement was so profound that, you know, no matter the accumulation of money that you have.
We typically as a society spend the money that we have. And so if you accumulate a lot, a huge salary, we usually look at, you know, buying a large home [00:15:00] or having a nice car.
Chris Gazdik: I can tell you behind the scenes, in the therapy room, oftentimes when I’m working with people that are wealthy, they are struggling financial.
Sure they really are. I mean, we, we pine after that and we try to keep up with that. And we kind of glorify people that have, you know, high incomes and stuff. I’m telling you a lot of times that is the source of their stress. They’re, they’re really struggling to organize the structure of their life as it relates to money.
And we see that in, in fame all the time, you know, and entertainment tonight and whatever people fall,
Kasie Morgan: right. And who you be, friend who you trust with your money, things like that. It becomes a pressure cooker of a situation because if you, if it falls to the wrong people in the wrong hands, in the wrong situation, in the wrong investment, you’re looking at going from literally riches to rags, which is opposite of what that dream is.
Right? So. But, but after all, though, the first concept here is it takes money to live. So I don’t want to be in denial of that concept. So I don’t [00:16:00] want to have it be like this whole thing where I’m like, oh, I got to do’s live on love, you know? Cause that is like, that’s a farce, right? Like you can’t. Yeah. I even did like the peace sign for those who are just listening, you know?
And so I do have some hippy vibes. Like I’m very boho. I can see that. Yeah. I mean, I have on like a vest today that I’m pretty sure has vintage, but whatever vintage, vintage, vintage, vintage.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Oh, vintage consignment. Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: Okay. Pre-owned oh, is that what that is? Yeah. It kind of smells like mothballs.
I
Chris Gazdik: think I just showed my ignorance with
Kasie Morgan: millennials. Yeah. So, so, but here’s the thing. So it takes money to live, whether it’s from, you know, your job from assistance, whatever the case may be, you have to sustain life. And so there are lots of arguments about. What that looks like all across the world, in our region, in our town, in our communities, or even in our homes.
And what is the difference between what you have to have to live in what you [00:17:00] want. Right. So there’s that whole thing, right?
Chris Gazdik: Just to highlight that we even have that in a psychological sense. When you look at something called Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right. You know, that’s a, a theoretical perspective almost where this guy Maslow years ago, early on in her field, kind of looked at like the basic needs of a pyramid.
The top of the pyramid is being self-actualized and then, you know, different layers in the middle are where we deal with mental health and kind of getting her life together. But the basic foundational level is absolutely real. If you do not have foundational components housing, you know, heat, food shelter, you cannot function.
It’s the foundation. So that safety level of functioning with Maslow’s is what we’re validating now. Right? Exactly.
Kasie Morgan: Exactly. But what that forces us into is that anything above that basic level of safety or security or scarcity becomes a vision of [00:18:00] success, right? So we start to look at people that are kind of higher up on that ladder, and it’s very natural to kind of watch.
What they have right. To, to look at that and say, wow, if I only had more money or they’re wealthy, right? Like they, they are very prosperous in their life. And so that drive and determination starts for some people, a motivation to do more, or it can actually drive down the mood and lessen motivation because you’re so upset about your current station in life.
Would you say that that’s kind of the truth as
Chris Gazdik: well? I that’s a good point. Absolutely. I think people get very depressed about not having wealth and, and getting stuck in their own mindset. That is a mentality of failure in oneself based on. Money, which sounds silly to say right. If you really get down to saying that people would probably be like, oh yeah, no, I don’t do that.
That’s not, I [00:19:00] don’t think we do.
Kasie Morgan: Right. And I think what really infiltrates that and really perpetuates that mindset is a lot of times social media and what we’re forced fed. Through magazines and other forms of media as well, which is to be successful. This is what this looks like. This is, you know, what’s interesting.
Chris Gazdik: I kind of blame social media in that regard, I think, because I think that goes further beyond that. I have like two cows. That’s all I have. I have enough for milk and I don’t have anything else. Look at John down the street, he’s got chickens, cows, you know, he’s got camels and everything else for transportation.
And I’m sitting here with two goats. I think it goes really a lot further back when we were looking at how human beings interact and compare ourselves with that. Right. Is
Kasie Morgan: that, does that sound fair? Yeah, I think there, there, there are lots of origins of it, for sure. I think that for most of the people that I talk about when we talk about comparison being kind of the death of real joy, right?
Yeah. Comparison is the death [00:20:00] of joy. Yeah. Yeah. And so when comparison is really the death of real joy, What they talk to me about, particularly, and I am talking more about my office is what they see their friends doing, what gets posted. And
Chris Gazdik: it’s probably accentuated for sure, with social media. I will say
Kasie Morgan: that too.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I even have somewhat of a personal story. My son came home and said, mom, why’d you send me to school and fake Nike’s. And I was like, first of all, first of all, first of all, why don’t even in middle school? And I’m like checking myself because I’m like, did I really buy him fake Nike’s?
Cause I don’t know, like, like I literally ordered your shoes online because your foot grows every other week. Like I can’t keep shoes on your feet. And so the answer is no I didn’t, but at the same time, like why do I care if some other fifth grader thinks that I bought you fake Nike? But then I realized, yeah, it’s a big deal to him because he goes to a school where they wear uniforms and they can’t have logos.
So the only logos that are present are [00:21:00] literally the logos on their shoes. And here we are in a society. Where kids are looking at other people’s shoes to determine whether or not that’s an authentic Nike check or a fake Nike check.
Chris Gazdik: I remember lots of moments of sadness as a child. Cause we didn’t have a lot of those nice things and whatnot, really, frankly.
And then that was a source of shame is another word.
Kasie Morgan: Exactly. And I remember very distinctly when I realized myself that perhaps, you know, I wasn’t in the best financial situation when I was a child was because one time I wore these shoes that I loved because I’m a huge tar tar heels fan, which we talked about last show, right?
Like I’m a huge dark Caroline’s REO fan. I love college basketball. I bleed it. And Kmart had these shoes that were like tar heel shoes. And it was like UNC on the side and on the tongue of the tennis shoe was the Ram’s head like Ramsey’s head. I thought they were the coolest shoes I’ve ever seen in my life because it’s like my team and whatever.
So I wear those to school and several [00:22:00] people made fun of them because. They were not a brand of shoe. They were like Kmart branded shoes, I guess. And I was like, why, why does it matter? And that’s when people started telling me about it. So I think I was in like fifth or sixth grade, the first time I ever realized that brands were like a thing.
And so, yeah. So we see that and it starts to create problems for people. Right. And, and that is where we get introduced to it. So it isn’t even in our adult life. Right. Like we’re talking about like kids as young as like five that I know of. That’s my frame of reference around my kids. Yeah. And like, do you have a phone?
Do you not have a phone? Okay. Well, is your phone an iPhone is not an iPhone. It’s like it’s on and on and on.
Chris Gazdik: As I heard for years and years as being a parent, dad, I have an iPhone too. Oh, like seven was out or
Kasie Morgan: something. Yeah. You better be glad you have a phone period. Like absolutely. Listen, my mom had to call me on the [00:23:00] unit in mobile, like a handheld phone.
And I was one of the only people that didn’t have a phone plugged into the wall in college. Like I actually had a portable phone. I was like, look at this. It was $10 at Walmart. But but anyway, so we would like to think of this concept that having an abundance of money would ultimately affect our happiness in a positive direction.
But the truth is, is that sometimes more money really creates more problems. And so the first thing I want to focus on is that unless you are independently wealthy because of a trust or if like generational wealth, You typically, and please argue if you think anything differently than this, but you typically are having to spend a lot more time away from your family to accumulate that personal wealth.
Sure. Okay. So you agree with that? Yeah. You also have to spend a lot more time, [00:24:00] less focused on yourself and more focused on the work that you’re doing well,
Chris Gazdik: and personally guilty as charged oh, years ago, I was still a pro probably a part of me. Yeah. That that’s part of why I’m probably as hard of a worker as I
Kasie Morgan: am.
Yeah. And so I think that that’s true, whether a person’s married, single, divorced, so on and so forth, the amount of time it takes to accumulate what we believe to be a certain amount of wealth takes a significant portion of time. So when you look at wealth as like a spectrum, right? Yes. Someone may accumulate more things, but is it more valuable or more wealthy to have more things or to, to have more qualitative memories with your family?
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah. And, and, and I, I don’t know if I’m jumping the gun on this, but moving us ahead a little bit to, what is enough. You know, earlier on in my life, I was kinda [00:25:00] trying to rid myself of some of this stuff emotionally myself, honestly. And so I would actually take like a hundred dollars and just blow it, force myself just to blow it because you know, I needed to be able to, to do that.
And I, I didn’t allow myself to do that. And so one of the things along those lines that really kind of helped as well is to realize, look, first world problems. We all make jokes like, oh yeah, that’s really a first world problem right there. You know? Well, I heard this one day and I’ll insert it here because I think it was helpful to me.
And hopefully some others, you know, when you have, and I’m not speaking specifics, I think I’m close to the concept here though. But you know, we have downloads all around the world in Africa and Zimbabwe and various places. You know, if you have something like a bathroom in your home, like with running water or a car that actually works or.
Like. Gosh, more than one car. Yeah. I know if you have like two [00:26:00] cars in your family, these basic things that we all, I think, you know, take for granted your, something like in the world’s top 4% of wealth, like right there in and of itself, that to me, Yeah, because I didn’t see myself as that way, but when I kind of came to that reality, it’s kind of like, yeah, I think I’m doing pretty well.
Like I have enough. Yeah. But people that really have a lot of resources and wealthy people will talk about this it’s more and more and more and more. They’re always like, do not land on. I do have enough. That is a mystery concept. Yeah. For,
Kasie Morgan: for a lot of people, one of my kids’ favorite movies is the Lorax he speaks for the trees.
Have you ever. Yeah, your kids are probably too old. Yeah. Neil, have you seen the Lorax? Yeah. So so in the Lorax there is this man, the one slur and the one slur wants to bigger everything and better every day. And he makes this [00:27:00] thing call this Mead and it like, he mass produces it, but pretty soon he cuts down all the trees and he has no longer has the main resource to make this thing and he loses everything interesting.
And so there’s a whole story behind that, but that’s what I think of is just like, when we get a little taste of it, we want a bigger, it, we want a better, it. And so we continue to try to contribute to it when we’re really not focused on what is actually contributing to our happiness and the abundance of wealth within our lives.
Chris Gazdik: I’m not a cultural expert, but I think that afflicts us pretty strongly here states. I mean, in the states, we really, I would present that as a problem.
Kasie Morgan: Right. Because arguably, if you’re not waiting for the weekly delivery of water, because you can’t have a well, or you can’t do basic things, like brush your teeth and like going back to my whole teeth obsession, you know, then, you know, part of this, and this is not supposed to be a shameful thing, but, you know, [00:28:00] check your privilege a little bit, you know, like there’s some, there’s some wealth in there.
Right. But, but also I think there is a concept that I really do want to focus on, which is you cannot buy. time, you can buy a lot of things and you can buy vacations to spend time with your family. But think about the number of people that you have seen either in a restaurant on vacation or whatever, tied to their cellular device, tied to a laptop, tied to something that ties them to work.
Well, I
Chris Gazdik: can highlight that. I think honestly, Kasie, to help you out to, to, to exemplify that I’m getting a little older now and I can look back on life and the times, and this is a common experience that I think people have. When you look back, let’s just say your marriage, you know, when you, you begin to evaluate the life that you’ve had together.
I [00:29:00] remember Dominican Republic when we went there. Yeah. I remember St Matean. You know, I remember the trips to Florida to see the in-laws those times that you shared those times that you invested in each other. That’s what you pined for. So, I mean, of course, yeah. Like time is something interesting that you spend so much time getting wealth for, but the time that you share in the moments that are there with my kids, you know, there are moments I will never forget, you know, with, with them.
That’s that time. Yeah. So that is, it’s a, it’s an incredibly wealthy
Kasie Morgan: commodity. Yeah, it is. And so I think that that’s one thing that we often take for granted is that time factor. Yeah. Because what is the saying? The days are long, but the years are short. You know, when, when I looked at something the other day on the internet, I saw something as hustling and bustling kids around.
In fact, we started a little early today because my son has a basketball game. Right. So I’m like gonna hustle from here to get to the ball game. And I read something the other day on the internet [00:30:00] that said, one day you’ll wake up and there’ll be nobody left to take the practice. And you want to talk about a gutting feeling.
I was like, all the mom feels came to me in that exact moment because it’s true. Like one day there won’t be anybody to take practice. Yeah. Yeah. You’re the living example and you’re about 10 years ahead of me in age. No offense. And it’s graceful aging. If that helps you actually have more gray hairs on my head, then you have in your beard, but I color my hair.
So
Chris Gazdik: it’s like, we’ll go, we’ll see how long we keep
Kasie Morgan: it a little unruly by the
Yeah, but you’re right. Kind of in that next segment that we’re talking about,
Chris Gazdik: your heart is getting a little ruler.
Kasie Morgan: Bless your heart. Okay.
Good
Kasie Morgan: things. Yeah. So then what happens is exactly what you’re talking about, right? Like the kids are gone and you’ve survived together, right. In a relationship let’s say like you’re married or something.
You’ve survived this time together of raising these kids. I’m even thinking back to the last [00:31:00] decade episodes that you did and how that worked. And so then it’s like the focal point becomes that next phase of life, which is like retirement. And so then you have that stressor of did I do enough? Did I, am I going to live long enough?
Did I accumulate enough? And oh, are you like, I’m like, yeah. And now that, that this wealth has been generated, it kind of becomes that focal point of how do I protect this so that if social programs don’t work out, I’m able to live and survive and my spouse can survive or, or whoever, any dependence that I have that needed that I need to take care of.
Like, how do they survive? Yes, you might be able to do things together, but that worry and stress
Chris Gazdik: and, and, you know, I think I want to make just a quick point about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs a lot of people from psych 1 0 1. I probably heard that, but you know, we can get on that foundational level really easily.
And I don’t think people realize that when [00:32:00] we’re talking about mental health, your emotions and money, you know, you did, I’m kind of wondering about retirement and that type of thing. You know, myself right now at this stage, this midlife stage of life. And I hadn’t entered in too much right now yet, but it’s getting there and that’s Maslow’s safety, bottom level foundational concern.
Right, right. You know, we can get there whether it’s legit or not, and we can have perceptions and fears, but my point is like, we can struggle on that foundational level. Almost create it psychologically. Yeah. That makes sense.
Kasie Morgan: Yes, I agree. And one thing that I want to wrap back around is yes, like in our country, in the United States, we are probably seen as one of the wealthiest nations from a monetary value valuables perspective.
But the truth is, is that going back to that concept of time, the investment we make in our careers to [00:33:00] accumulate this wealth does not increase the time we invest in developing really our culture in developing our families. If you think about other countries who may have less material wealth, they generally don’t have established or cultivated retirement systems because what they do culturally, is they take care of one another.
The parent moves into the home. So they’re not worried about. Retirement and stuff. They move in with a child. The child takes care of them. There is a cultivated presence of acceptance responsibility and just this inner weaving of a family dynamic that we don’t see in our country first world problems.
Right. It’s a first world problem on a different level. And so I, I do want to take the time tonight and kind of flip that perspective and say, You know, you’re spending a lot of time attempting to chase the American dream and accumulate wealth, but are you investing time in [00:34:00] what really matters when it comes down to the end of your life?
Chris Gazdik: It’s a really good teaching moment. You know, it really it’s, it’s a good, it’s a good reflection point to really get your brains, to be thinking out there about what is the priority streams for.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. And how a lot of those concepts can infiltrate your life and really become your motivation. And to me, what I see particularly in my office is it becomes a misalignment of that value system.
And we touched on that, the last show about aligning with your values and how that should become kind of what you re resolute to do. But the truth is, is that when we’re chasing the accumulation of wealth, a lot of times we miss align ourselves with our values. Just like my value right now is to try to be the best mom that I can be.
Right. We talked about that as my resolution, because my little tiny humans, they love me already. But in order for me to do that, I have to invest [00:35:00] time. They may come to me and ask me if they have fake Nike’s. But, but, but if I’m not going to their ball games and I’m not at home and I’m not participating in snow days and I’m not participating in their lives, they could give a junk bit less about what I buy them or what trips we take.
Cause if I’m not fully present, then it doesn’t matter what their presence. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: there’s another good quote. Thank
Kasie Morgan: you. Another quote
Chris Gazdik: and it’s, and it really is so true. Look, the, the, the human connection is the human emotional experience. What we talk about on this show, right? And you’re laying into a really valuable human, emotional experience between something as a caregiver can be for a child it’s really
Kasie Morgan: wealthy.
I think the same is true for our significant others and spouses is that, that when we talk about that, and as we continue our discussion, Finances are really big issue and a [00:36:00] really big part of the demise of a lot of marriages. How the money is spent, how the money is accumulated, what is done with it, decisions about money, things like that can really drive couples apart.
And what I see the most of in that discussion from my perspective, and I’ll be glad to hear your perspective is I see a lot of one person that’s usually a saver and one person, that’s usually what I would term a thoughtful spender, where they feel like they need to spend money on their children.
They need to spend money on. The house to keep it up, they need to spend money on their parents. Like whatever the case may be. And the other one is like, save, save, save, save, save.
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah, no, my perspective, and this is a good place to put into Dave Ramsey’s financial peace university bill too, which I always like to mention as one of the trifecta.
Yeah. Awesome. Craig, my buddy Craig, and one of the co-hosts teaches the class. It goes directly in line with the [00:37:00] abandonment and engulfment characteristics would be emotion focused therapy. They work together like a glove. And the reality of it is there are two different perspectives. One is you know, the nerd, Dave calls him that’s the savor the, the, the defensive person with debt and the other is the free spirit, the one that’s spending.
And how did you put it, the thoughtful spender, you know? Sure. But it’s like, that’s, let’s use the resources for those needs that we have. And, and that, that grind is, is something that it does lead to incredible marital distress. Yeah, it is one of the big marital killers. People would say that, talk about it in that way, find it right.
And
Kasie Morgan: if you couple that I would venture to say, if you couple that with kind of a lack of communication, because one person is spending a significant amount of time trying to accumulate that wealth and the quality time has gone out the window. Then you are left with a pretty dire situation where if all we’re talking about is how we disagree about finances, because we haven’t talked through how we look at this, [00:38:00] what do we do together?
What’s our budget, things like that, then that multi-layered issue can really lead to a lot of problems. And so one in our
Chris Gazdik: office from time to time, probably every
Kasie Morgan: day, every single day. Yeah. One thing that I think it does lead to, and this is where the true crime part comes into the
Chris Gazdik: story, because I think that’s going to be cool.
Yes.
Kasie Morgan: Okay. Story time. Yes. So one thing I think it does lead to, and this is not a knock on any multi-level marketing kinds of things. Okay. So I just want to make that qualifying statement. Okay. Is that multilevel marketing? So yeah, so multi-level marketing will be like, yeah. Where you enter in as like a consultant.
Right. And then if you get people under you, then you start making commissions off of their sales and they get you build up these teams. And so it comes, becomes a pyramid. So it used to be called pyramid schemes. But I think now they call it multi-level marketing [00:39:00] because you do kind of. Own your own inventory and things like that.
Yeah. Okay. So you’re not Downing those. I’m not trying to down those, but I think what happens is when we get into situations where it feels like this accumulation of wealth is something that could be within our reach and people start dangling out a carrot. Like if you do this, you can, if you get to this level, you can drive a Lexus for the next, like how many ever years, as long as you stay at that level, right?
Or if you do this, like then you qualify for a cruise. And so your vacations paid for all you have to do is get on. A website and sell some stuff attractive. Right. It’s very attractive, especially if you are not the breadwinner of the family and you want to have some extra income and they’re like, yeah, we pay you out weekly or we give you a debit card.
Wow.
Chris Gazdik: That is such a different perspective. Yeah, no, I, I just, you, I think you tuned me into a different perspective on that being the, I know the guy, I, I don’t know [00:40:00] that I haven’t. That’s interesting.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. And in fact, like you can’t really get on your individual social media. Well, I can’t get on my social media without having a request for some kind of party or something like that.
Yeah. And please hear me. I love to support my friends. I buy a lot of this stuff. A lot of my clothes comes from things like that. The nail colors that I often wear come from things like that. So. I have no problem with the product. That’s pretty awesome. Yeah. Like the pampered chef stuff, like I’m like in it to win it when it comes like that, I don’t sell it, but like I’m in a twin, but I think that what happens sometimes it’s that attractiveness of what could be right.
It becomes that like what could be, but then what we find is a lot of people in that accumulation that drive towards that wealth accumulate massive amounts of debt. Because in order to maintain your level, you have to keep up with a surgeon to keep inventory and keep up with a certain quota. So this is how that leads into my story about our friend from Belmont.[00:41:00]
So does the name does the name Shannon on. Gosh, what’s her last name? I put it on my sheet. Where’s it at? Oh, Shannon Watts. Does the name Shannon Watts ring a bell to you?
Chris Gazdik: No. No, not
Kasie Morgan: even a little bit. So Shannon Watts used to have a home here in Belmont.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. And this is a public stories.
Kasie Morgan: This is a public story.
There’s a Netflix documentary about it. Okay. And the Netflix documentary I think is called. American family next door or something like that. The family next door, American American murder, the family next door. So Shannon was living in Belmont, had her own home and was working on near here. And then she was dating a guy from Morrisville, North Carolina named Chris.
Yeah. So she was, you know, just a beautiful person. Everybody that knew her loved her same thing with him. He was a very dynamic personality, [00:42:00] all of this stuff. And so they get married and I believe the story goes that his job takes them out to Colorado. Okay. He’s in the oil business. And so he’s going out there.
He’s going out on these big jobs and things like that. So Shannon Scott, her own thing going on, she has two little girls, you know, they are having a life together out there. Her family is still here in North Carolina, she’s traveling back and forth and she really is not. Doing a lot for herself. So she decides that she wants to start earning for herself.
And so she gets involved with a mult multi-level marketing company and to protect the name of that company, I’m going to say it on the podcast, but she gets involved with it, right. They get in so much debt. And I’m not saying that this led to the demise of their family, but she had thousands upon thousands of dollars of inventory that she just continually started racking up on credit cards and putting in their basement to stay at a certain level.
She was [00:43:00] driving a Lexus, like all of this stuff. Right. They were living in this huge home out there. Like it was, it, it was a thing. Okay. So obviously this created a lot of situations for their family. They filed bankruptcy multiple times. Oh wow. But continued to try Lexis. Right. But continue to try to live at this level.
Okay. And so a lot of pressure was added to the situation. So when that pressure started mounting the mental health of the husband really started to decline because he’s overworking, he’s doing a lot of other things. There might be some personality things there. I’m not his therapist. I’m not going to make a judgment on that.
But he is in these big old jobs and he starts trying to relieve or eradicate that stress by working out, okay. He cuts his body fat percentage. He’s looking really good. He meets somebody at the gym and long story short pretty soon. There’s a relationship that blooms. Right. So things continue. [00:44:00] Well, Shannon back at home finds out that she’s pregnant again with Chris’s baby.
Okay. Her husband’s child. So he, you know, is seen on video. He pulls into the driveway around five 30 in the morning. Something comes out back into his truck. He pulls out of the driveway and that’s it. Okay. Pretty soon, no one hears from Shannon or hears anything from the girls. So her best friend goes over there.
So on this Netflix documentary, I kid you not, he is wearing the multi-level marketing product, like on his arm, like in this Netflix documentary. Okay. Like to tie that into what we’re talking about, but ends up he actually murdered her and her two girls and put their bodies in old tanks. So there’s that, but what I’m saying is that money issue, that pressure cooker of a situation that led to the demise of.
The mental health structures [00:45:00] and all of those things, subterfuge what was going on. Yeah. And so I think that not that that’s going to happen to you in your life, right? Like, I don’t want to make that stress, but, but I think it’s important to say that having more money, a lot of times creates a vaster array of problems.
Well,
Chris Gazdik: and I think that we’re moving towards debt you know, as well to discuss that whole dynamic because it debt isn’t money. That’s the opposite of money, but boy, people fall into major aspects of debt. So you could look at that as a financial outcropping, if you will, of what people are trying to do.
Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: And, and as like a struggling college student and then a teacher after college, I can tell you, like, I’ve had my fair share of run-ins with running up against like a debtor to write. If you understand that level of anxiousness that comes with, can I [00:46:00] feed myself, you know, and or do I keep my lights on, then you are budding up against exactly what you’ve talked about, which is Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right?
Like, do I keep my lights on or do I feed myself
Chris Gazdik: the great depression people were jumping out of freaking skyscraper. Yeah, absolutely. They were really doubtful and fearful right word about how they were going to.
Kasie Morgan: Right. And I think it’s also true that when we talk about like medications and things like that, and I don’t want to get into a whole debate or discussion about pharmaceuticals, but a lot of people in this country have to think about making a payment or buying their meds.
And that is just a reality that we deal with. Right. And, and so it is a hard discussion to have, but the truth of the matter is, is that the wealthiest people, no matter what their job is or what their bank accounts. The wealthiest people operate with the most minimal amount of debt. And to me, when you talk about overwhelming wealth, I believe it [00:47:00] has to be an acute balance between what you need to live and what, what you want to live.
Chris Gazdik: What do you think about what you need to live and what you want to live? And I think it has to do with being grounded with, you know, with that differential, I think, you know, needs and wants. You know, we talk about that with our kids. We do need those Nike shoes to go to school. Or do you just, do you want those, those things?
And we are operating a lot of times out of wants or being,
Kasie Morgan: we want more, we want bigger, we want better just like the one Slayer from, from the Lorax, but I think money can perpetuate problems that we don’t need. And the reason why I think that is exactly what that doctor told me is that we try to spend the money.
We have
Chris Gazdik: thinking about this from a, from an emotional perspective. What do you think really grabs people in to that perspective on an [00:48:00] emotional level? I guess that’s why I did the show on money before and took the emotional angle. What really grabs people in. Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: What do you think? I think it’s a status, right?
Like ego status and ego. Yeah. I mean, in all honesty, like I’m not, I think it’s a level of comfortability and a responsibility too. So I don’t want to diminish the fact that there are people that are like, you know, I feel responsible for my family. I want to work hard to make sure my family has a comfortable life, but I think there’s a difference between comfortable and conceded.
Right. So there’s a vast difference between that. Right.
Chris Gazdik: I’m just going to propose in wonder out loud. I think that’s why the Mazlow’s thing hit me, you know, is it possible. That fundamental aspects of fear for your survival. And I know that sounds crazy when people are wealthy and whatever Mr. And Mrs.
Wallace or whatever their name was and know couldn’t have been fearful. Watts couldn’t have been fearful about their ability to [00:49:00] survive, but were they because the debt kind of goes through your system. And I wonder if you get fearful about your physical ability to survive, given the debt threshold and the anxiety that that creates is fear.
One of the major emotional,
Kasie Morgan: I think fear is a force there, and I think it’s a fear of survival. And then I think it’s a fear of social exclusion. Like I really believe that I think that one strikes again. Yeah. FOMO, but I really do believe that we want to create a life where we have this community, right.
And the community we want to be in is the community. You know, has the parties and has the social aptitudes and has all the best things, because it looks attractive. You know, we used to say the phrase sex sells, right? Like sex sells and the, in the news, you know, like gore sells, sex, sells, things like that.
I think the allure of money or the love of money sells people. [00:50:00] People want other people to think that they have it together, that their life is a grand life. Like this is my house. This is my vehicle. You might be in debt up to your eyeballs, but this status symbol makes you tick. And I think that that is very much emotional and personality driven,
Chris Gazdik: vanity, you know, I left my thoughts in way of fear with survival.
However, I think I just got it back. It’s fleeting in my brain though. I think almost lost it again, right. Vanity the wet. So when I ask you what emotion might be driving some of this, I, I think I switched gears and landed on fear for survival. And what I put, what I was originally thinking is, are we struggling with an emotional starting spot or position with not feeling [00:51:00] valuable or good enough as a person, as a man or as a woman?
Like I, as I am back to your point, I think a show or two ago about being enough, like how powerful that really is, is it so that we might have such strong, personal internal Neverland, anybody know feelings that I suck, poor insecurity, poor self view. I wonder how much that drives the what, what, what appears as a search for vanity, but starts from a space of.
The ad self
Kasie Morgan: perspective. Yeah. Which I think can also be born out of a lot of different things. Trauma being one of them.
Chris Gazdik: Or
Kasie Morgan: we’re a scarcity mentality. Like I’ve never really had anything. And so now that I have something, I want to do it now, right? Like, because I might not have it a year from now because I’ve lived in situations where it’s fluctuated between those are powerful emotion have nots, right.
And so it creates vanity. It [00:52:00] does, it creates vanity in a way, but I think the origins of vanity really come from that deeper emotional experience in the relationship you have with money. And I think that that is something you have to explore. If you want to be a wealthy person. What is your relationship with money?
Chris Gazdik: You’re listening to this show. We’re not going to have enough time to go into that depth. The why’s right. Go back a couple of shows. Cause we hit that. Exactly. We hit that strongly
Kasie Morgan: adamant. So here are a couple of takeaways. So if this is something that speaks to you and you’re like, wow, like I I’ve really been thinking about wealth in a different direction than here are some things that I think where you can kind of start with to be able to kind of prepare yourself to be a wealthy individual.
One is to communicate like if you’re married or in a relationship, you need to be communicating about your finances. You, you guys talked about that a couple of shows ago. I heard on there, like, but communication is key. Like what are your goals? And I would, and vision starting with the end in mind. Where do you [00:53:00] want to be?
Yeah. And how do you get there?
Chris Gazdik: And that’s all dibs, a bunch of Dave Ramsey stuff. Like I said, that right there is Dave Ramsey and Naples. He enables that communication and discussion to be in, to happen. When, when I, I find nothing else really had allowed couples to do that. ‘
Kasie Morgan: cause that whole discussion between abandonment and engulfment individuals are like, oh, you’re not naming the envelopes.
I’m naming the envelopes, like the little pots of money. Like, let’s talk about that. Yeah. So we’re enabling that communication piece set your goals and then revisit your goals. So I think that’s another big, big component of this. If you have a goal in mind about your personal wealth, and I would hope that after this discussion it’s about quality time and things like that that make you a wealthy individual.
If you set a goal around that, revisit that goal, don’t just set it and let it go. So I think thinking through it and revisiting it is. Are you spending time with significant people in your life? And if you’re not, what plans are you making to do so, so again, you can’t buy time. [00:54:00] The days are long, the years are short refocus, that goal.
And then what habits are you teaching? The people that are watching you, whether it’s your children, your friends, your family, what witnesses are seeing your ideals around wealth? Because I can tell you right now that my kids will recreate statements about what is going on. My mom’s favorite story about me as a child.
This is going to be really quick. Cause I know we need to kind of wrap things out. But so my mom was a single mom for awhile and she used to do that self-talk thing in the car, right? Like where like you’re like getting ready to go in somewhere and she’s like self-talking to herself in the driver’s seat.
So she was like looking at the register on her checkbook and like bouncing your tablet. And she’s like, oh God, I hope this check doesn’t clear before my check goes into the bank account. Right. And all this stuff. So she’s, self-talking herself. Well, I’m hearing this I’m eight years old. Okay. Like just a spry eight year [00:55:00] old.
So I’m hearing this, I’m probably too smart for my own. Good. As I’ve been told a few times, right. I’m a know it all. So we go in the grocery shore, we do all the grocery shopping. We have a cart full of groceries. And so they give us the total and my mom goes to write a check and I tug on my mom and I say, mom, you said in the car that, that check’s going to bounce.
You shouldn’t write a check right now in the store. Yeah. So how you communicate about that is being radiated to everybody
Chris Gazdik: that bears, but you know, to, to highlight something that popped into my brain right there, I think too, You’re talking about teaching the little ones, you know, I like to pose a quick question.
I mean, what do you teach through your experiences and how do your, your, your perceptions frame around financial aspects of your life so that you’re actually teaching yourself, right? We are, we are telling ourselves reinforcing things to our, to ourselves a whole lot. And that [00:56:00] perception based. Process, either solidifies unhealthy aspects of your financial life in an emotional sense, or has potential to really shift them into a more direction that you want to attend.
And hopefully our conversation tonight contributes to shifting some of those things. If you’ve held on to some of these types of things we’ve talked about tonight,
Kasie Morgan: and then I think in that communication piece really is to decide what’s what are some things that you can compromise on? And I think that’s a hard concept, but I think it’s something that has to happen because we carry into every situation, the financial teachings of.
Our family of origin, who we grew up with, who we grew up around. And so I know that even like before I had gotten married and had talked through things, I was like, you have to have your own money. Cause that’s a product of divorced. I’m like, you have to have your good money. You know, like that’s a real thing.
You’re go money. [00:57:00] And, and I’m an abandonment person like that. Couldn’t tell you, I have to share this.
Chris Gazdik: I think hopefully, hopefully she won’t be mad at me, Lisa, if you are, I’m terribly sorry, but I’m going to do it anyway. It was really funny because when we were dating in college and things were getting more serious, graduation’s coming around or whatever.
And
we laugh about it now because she, she realized something was different up because one night I’m sitting there in her apartment and we’re hanging out at her house or wherever she was living on her couch. And I remember the conversation and she remembers it very well too. And it was just so cute because it was trying to start the communication thing.
And I just looked there. I was like, so I’m just curious. How many, how many, how many credit cards do you actually,
the next question was who kind of balances are on those cards, you know, because that was the formula,
Kasie Morgan: right.
Chris Gazdik: We were just hanging out, but you were, you, you just highlighting the [00:58:00] communication, right. And the connection that you begin to have on this and, you know, and th the, the debt thresholds and how you kind of start out and all of that is really formative. So yeah. She knew something was really up when I went there.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah, for sure. Also there, like my takeaway from that would have been like, oh, he’s going to ask me to marry him. Yeah. That would have been my immediate takeaway. Oh, he’s he’s into me.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. He’s like, I know something’s up here. Yeah. Probably
Kasie Morgan: a bad tip. So if there was any one statement that I would make, kind of like in an ultimate summary it would be, make money.
Don’t let money make you yeah. And that would be my takeaway for today.
Chris Gazdik: Plenty. And don’t let money make you or make your decisions for you.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Because you are enough and the wealth comes from you being well, you know, it’s funny.
Chris Gazdik: I, I appreciate that, Kasie. And we start taxing in here with, with this idea, I think because it’s.
You say interesting. You asked me what does [00:59:00] wealth mean? And I, and I was only able to give you the answer based on what we talked about with shame and guilt fear and all those types of things. And there’s a lot of negative and whatnot. And I think, you know, what we’re hopefully reframing and for you to think out there in the new year, and as you move through this journey through 2022 with us, that, that you could really reframe some of those thoughts that you’ve had, that, that you can really relive.
And re-experience what it is that you see as well and, and redefine matching them with your values and your purpose and the priorities that you have so that it isn’t about get rich or get more or be bigger. It’s, it’s really becomes more about more grounding things in your life, such as the relationships and the people and your, your teaching today.
And helping us understand the sheer value of time. So I thank you for that. That’s some, that’s some really strong, some strong things there to re evaluate and redesign our financial land,
Kasie Morgan: your emotional experience. [01:00:00]
Chris Gazdik: Nice plug. I have to have a chapter in there on finances. So I’ll
Kasie Morgan: write it for you one day.
Chris Gazdik: Also. We’ll do it. We’ll do a joint project. I can totally see that happening. Summary points, conclusions. We ready to get out of here. All right. You guys. Thanks for hanging out with us this week. We are back on track. We will see you in about seven days. Stay safe, take care.