In this April 2026 Month in Review episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we revisit four key conversations on stress, grief, parenting, and dating. We explore how chronic stress and hypervigilance keep the body stuck in survival mode—and why movement is essential for regulation. We also challenge the idea of “moving on” from grief, reframing resilience as small, everyday acts of self-compassion. In parenting, we question whether modern trends are helping or adding pressure, and return to core principles like empathy and trusting your instincts. Finally, we look at dating—from pandemic teens to midlife singles—highlighting shared struggles like fear of rejection and the importance of approaching relationships with authenticity and curiosity.
Tune in to see the April Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
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https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/monthinreview
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Episode #355 TranscriptionChris (00:01) Hello and welcome to another edition of Through a Therapist's Eyes. This is episode 355 where we do a April month in review. So that's what we're going to be doing today. We got a lot to get to because we got actually four shows. I don't really know how that happened. We have Neil comes out of the curtains to hang out with us in the live. How are you, sir? Neil (00:22) I'm fantastic, are you? Chris (00:24) I'm good, it's been a full day, I'm, well, I'm depressed. ⁓ I don't know. My Pittsburgh Penguins lost last night and I'm destroyed, I'm heartbroken, I'm upset, and it's first world problems, but you know what, judge me if you want, I'm upset, Kyle. Kyle (00:40) I get it. I get it. That's how I feel when the Panthers lose. Chris (00:44) And this is Mr. Kyle King who hangs out with us as well on the month in review. So, you're catching us for the first time, we are on YouTube Thursday nights, usually 6.15 or so thereafter, where you can join us and connect with us and talk with us while the show, we like to have that happen. This is where you get insights and ⁓ blow up stereotypes and myths about mental health. And while you're in your car, personal time in your home, but knowing it's not to deliver your therapy services in any way. Kyle, would you like to deliver therapy services? I've never asked you before. Kyle (01:14) ⁓ probably not. I'm better on the technical side. Chris (01:17) You're better on a computer. Neil, I know that you can do it. Kyle (01:20) Yeah. Neil (01:22) Yeah, I can tell people what to do. Chris (01:26) Okay, maybe not. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe time out on that. It's not the way it works. Alright, we ask you to click subscribe. I like the videos, that all helps a whole lot. We are pushing for more YouTube videos, more YouTube people. I'm getting into a little bit of a routine now that I've found all your comments and things on YouTube. My apologies, I want to respond to everybody, every comment, everything that we get. I did not do that successfully the last several months, but I'm on it. Getting some routines down so that I can do that. Please know that if I missed you, it was coming. I got all the way caught up to like a couple, few months ago though. you know, only the really old ones that I already neglected, I've caught up on. ⁓ The other thing I really want to point out as well is that I've been kind of doing a little bit of extra work on the website. So please know that if you go to throughtherapistize.com, And you like particular show that we've done or a particular topic. We have, I'm kind of being careful about putting a lot of links on there. Links to previous shows that we do will always be on there every week. We have a couple of article research article or two that's kind of boring, but for those of you that are weird like me, might like to read some of those things and then pertinent things through the particular episode, how to find the guests or, you know, ⁓ usually have my book. ⁓ through a therapist eyes on marriage or on self. So I'm kind of really trying to be a little bit thorough on through a therapist eyes. So it'll help you kind of click with some other shows that you're interested in that are similar. Because we've got 355 shows. That's not nothing. So just be aware of that. Look, we are licensed clinical therapists doing real clinical work every day. And this is where we actually talk about what actually helps. We do the work all day long and we will go through a therapist eyes, come along with you to help us. You see what we see in this, in this field. So contact it through therapist eyes.com is a great way to email us, connect with us, to talk with us. If you make your, ⁓ your subscription to YouTube public, we'll give you a shout out on the show. ⁓ we're pushing up to close to half a thousand. We need a thousand. We're looking for a thousand. So please really refer to a friend, tell a friend about us. They will listen to you. They won't just find us, but they will listen to you. That's your job as we do. our job. for that. ⁓ Month in review. How did we have four shows? I don't even understand what happened. Was a lot of weeks or something. Neil (03:57) Yeah, there were five Thursdays this month. Chris (04:00) Okay, yeah, that's a lot of Thursdays so so we got a lot to get to ⁓ boy a couple of weird shows though Maybe I'll try to do another ⁓ Country roads overview while I talk about my dear sweet dog Sadie that That is no longer with us. That was that was a great show on grief. We'll get to that but I Feel like it's been an interesting month this month through a therapist sighs ⁓ Neil (04:02) That's why. Chris (04:30) Kyle, we start the month in review with a little fun tradition of down the rabbit hole. is something mental health related in some way. A question is a part of it or a thought is a part of it. Observations are a part of it. We like to kind of live in the world that you live in. And so when you're living in the world, Kyle looks at the world you, I, and we are living in and finds crazy weird things sometimes. Kyle (04:38) Yeah. Chris (04:58) So ⁓ we're gonna go down the rabbit hole with Mr. Kyle King. What you got, man? Kyle (05:03) Well, you know, you know the kind of month I've had so and I know one of the shows is gonna be tied to this particular subject and I actually saw this happen firsthand and I kind of knew it but I really didn't you know just kind of yeah I really didn't understand all the ins and outs of it but it was how animals such as dogs or cats so I'm not a cat person I'll just go ahead and preface that I'm a dog person Chris (05:30) Okay. Kyle (05:32) So this Chris (05:32) Good. Kyle (05:32) is neither the which is better. This is but it's just kind of led me down the rabbit hole. Yeah. Well, you know how how animals can help you through times of grief and yeah, it's it's it's yeah. So, you know, personal story, I lost my dad this month and my my mother came to stay with me for of for for a little while. Chris (05:34) Let's count the rabbit holes now, King. Piss off all the cat people. Kyle (06:01) And during that time, obviously she's upset. I watched my three dogs just love on her. She would be upset and they would just notice and run right over to her. So it just got me kind of curious. It's like, okay, how do they know this? then of course I'm like, okay, now I'm curious. It's like, okay, how do cats do this? If dogs do this, what do cats do? Dogs are very ⁓ touchy-feely. So when they see something upset, someone upset, what they're gonna do is they're gonna go over to them. They're gonna try to get someone to pet them. They're gonna try to maybe lick them. They're gonna sit right beside them, be really close into that person. But where a cat comes in different, they notice and they pick up on it, but they're kind of, and there's studies that have been done with this, but they're not as touchy-feely sometimes as a dog would be. And of course, Chris (06:59) Yeah. Cats are weird. Kyle (07:00) It's course it's all about the you know the owners and how they were raised and all that kind of stuff. I get that but it's you know cats could do something simple as being near and purring where dogs are they're wanting to you know comfort you know be that comfort person. The one thing I did find interesting is that you know through this you know looking into this if you take a look at a dog a dog can actually you they're very They're more involved. know, cats kind of self-sufficient if you think about it. They can be, but a dog, they're very needy. They have routines. They like to go and walks. They like to play. They're on schedule. Mine are definitely on a schedule for food. I can tell you that. And if you don't feed them on time, they will tell you about it. But what it happens, what that creates is that it creates a change in your grief process. Chris (07:34) Mm. Yes. Kyle (07:57) because you've got to be, responsible for that dog. And that now you have something to do. So it really changes the way you can handle or the way you process grief when you're knowing I have responsibilities to take care of. So the dog kind of actually gets you back into that normal routine where a cat can, but the cat's more self-sufficient. And I just found it very interesting, you know, because that that dog with my mom, mean, my gosh, they loved on her. They just whined on her. I mean, just laid right beside her, made sure that she was taken care of. it was a very heavy attachment to her when she was going through the process of grief. And so that's why they, for them, it's like, okay, let me touch you. You touch me, let me take something off of you. you know, that's what the dog is kind of saying. Where the cat says, I'm here. If you need me, I'll just purr. I'll be love on you. I'll rub up on you and all that kind of stuff. But I'm still here. And there's a lot more to to this, you know, that I found out with this. But this is just scratching the surface of it a little bit. But I found it interesting. It's like, yeah, I found it interesting, especially, you know, the the months we've the month we've had Chris is like, very, very ⁓ Chris (09:11) You think? Kyle (09:21) Yeah, and thankfully my mom has a dog that is keeping her busy and offering that companionship right now. Chris (09:31) Well, let me tell you what I'm doing right now, Kyle. You know, we all got computers in front of our face and doing the things that we do. ⁓ This is episode 356. Don't hold me to the title, but the title will be something along the lines of what I'm typing right now. How pets are a part of our grieving responses and Process that's going to be episode 356 brother Kyle (10:05) There you go. There you go. Chris (10:06) Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and a little layered, if you're, if you're catching the show, ⁓ as far as, you know, month in review goes for the through therapist dies family. ⁓ Kyle has been just a lot of that. I mean, yeah, we, we've all had a heck of a month with grief. It's just been all over us. mean, I lost my dog, Sadie and had to bury her for the first time, burying a dog. ⁓ we cremated our, our first loss. ⁓ you're very painful also if you're dead and dude, I'm glad you showing up. You look good. You look good with that hair out there in the woods. I'm glad you're recovering. And I know that it's a recovery ring because it's a grieving process. My personal trainer shout out to Jake. ⁓ my boy, ⁓ I can't imagine. ⁓ well, I don't know what I want to share on podcasts for him or not. I'll Kyle (10:44) I appreciate that, thank you. Chris (11:05) I'll just say that he lost his dad too. And he was involved in a CPR, which I just can't, I can't imagine, you know, what that would be like. And then John Pope as well, you know, on the through a therapist, I've tried. Went through the death of his 99 year old dad and survived by ⁓ his mom also Kyle. ⁓ and, and so we're going to, we're going to do a whole show on this rabbit hole, man. We really are because. Kyle (11:26) Wow. Chris (11:33) John is a little bit of an expert kind of as well in the sense that, and he and his wife were on the show, ⁓ a long time ago with Bob the dog. So Bob, dog is his wife's service animal because she has some medical conditions that are pretty debilitating and chronic. And, ⁓ that dog is amazing, Kyle. Absolutely amazing. So when you say that dogs tune into our emotion and they change and are a part of our grieving process, I mean, they know exactly what's going on. Like to the point of smelling your hormone levels dropping, okay? Kyle (12:13) Yeah, they can definitely detect it. that's one of the things I found out is like how sensitive they are, especially hound dogs, you know, I mean, hound dogs, which is what I got, you know, they're very sensitive to smells, so they can detect anything. you know, so they can detect those hormone levels, like you said, the anxiety levels that you are, but then they can also, you know, bring those levels down to just what the common effect. Chris (12:41) Now, now what I'm interested in in this rabbit hole actually is, ⁓ boy, this is probably the most serious rabbit hole we've ever had, Far cry from night fighting or something. Kyle, you got to dial it down on the seriousness element. You bring it some heat. Neil (12:48) It definitely is. Kyle (12:56) Yeah, I of... I kind of figured it like it'd tie in perfectly this week. Chris (13:03) Yes it would because I'm curious what you found though. I'm completely ignorant about the cat's land. Like I'm a dog dude too. I'm not really a cat guy. ⁓ I wouldn't think that they would be as in tune. Of course all animals kind of sense their surroundings and have a limbic system just like that's part of living. That's the amygdala and the emotion center. mean they all animals. I think it's fair to say actually most if not all animals have that but Well, what about cats? Do they tune into us like that? I don't think they would. Kyle (13:34) Believe it or not. They actually do and again I go I do think it goes back to personal opinion of how a Dog or cat is raised with a human, you know, what kind of connection there is, you know Obviously if there's some abuse or anything like that going on I can see you know Not being the case, but if there is that connection You know, they do pick up on the changes. It's more subtle than the you know for a cat than a dog Chris (13:36) Really? Kyle (14:03) But yeah, they do pick up on it. Chris (14:05) Yeah, that's interesting. You know, I am, I guess I'm going to, have a lot to get to. So I'm going to cut this one short to say thank you, ⁓ Kyle, first of all, again, for being here. And my condolences once again for your dad. know we've been talking this week a little bit. ⁓ yeah, no, I, I, we're doing a new whole show on this topic. It's, it's, it's that, that good of a rabbit hole for sure. And, ⁓ I'm really, really curious what John's going to say about this type of stuff. And so we'll, we'll go deep on the dog side of grief. How about that? Kyle (14:18) Thanks. That'll work. Chris (14:36) Yeah, all right. Let's do that. Thank you for that. I'm not trying to cut it short, but I just decided we'll do a whole show, you know, and I think that's a good way to go. So let's get into the shows that we had this week, this month. know, gosh, Lee, a lot of stuff was going on. We've had just a lot of information in these episodes and really personal heartfelt stories and Kyle's joining in that party. So episode 351, we did Chronic Stress Hypervigilance Stuck in Survival Mode. how movement resets the nervous system. So Neil, we had our lady come back. What'd you think about that, Ms. Donahay? Neil (15:15) I think it was great. The fact that she got you to like do up and get stand up and do like a yoga was kind of crazy. Chris (15:22) She did, she did. Throwing the volcano. Neil (15:30) No, I think she was very keen on really helping us understand where the movement becomes really vital. And I think it goes back to a lot of stuff. know Kyle teaches his workout classes at the Y. And we've talked to you before about how those movement things, stuff like that changes everything about your mood, what's going on. Even Kyle being outside right now, it's a difference, right? So it was really, really great to hear her talk about it. interesting how she applied that to ⁓ when she was in the education system. She had the one kid who was kind of going kind of crazy. He's like, yeah, we'll move the basket to the other end of the hall. All right, now bring it back. And then move the basket. And just the fact that they made that kid move was what changed the whole scenario with that child, because they physically got up and they did things. That's the power of movement. Chris (16:11) Yeah, she told a story. And I can tell you, Kyle, I have really found that for any therapists that are listening to this show, I mean, you have got to be diligent about that. Just Thursdays today, I have ⁓ a one o'clock virtual session, a two o'clock virtual session, and a three o'clock virtual session. And I made the mistake of sitting at my chair and my desk for all three sessions and all three progress notes without standing up. How do you think, Kyle, I felt the end of that day? Kyle (16:50) I couldn't do that. There's just absolutely no way I am really bad about and this is this is just me. When I'm on a when I am on a call for a meeting at work, I walk, I pace. And you know, I do this for multiple factors because I don't like that, you know, just to your point, I really don't like sitting still that long. But secondly, is if I sit down, I'm going to multitask. And so I'm I'm gonna try to do 10 different things at the same time I'm trying to, you know, Chris (17:14) Meh. Kyle (17:18) listen to this conversation and provide productive feedback. So, that's just me. I'm always, I never like to sit still. So I know exactly how you felt. Chris (17:30) Yeah, it was terrible. mean, honestly, I learned the value in this virtual world that we live in about doing a 50 to 55 minute long therapy session and then greeting someone goodbye, coming back to my office, sitting down, doing a note, standing back up, going to check to the next client and then bringing them back. That little interlude. ⁓ my gosh, it makes the biggest difference in the world. I do not understand how people have full down sit down jobs all day long behind a computer or in a cubicle or you've got to get up and move. And Lisa taught us that. Kyle (18:06) Well, and I think that's where a lot of, ⁓ you know, know a lot of people in, you know, that I work with, they have stand up desks and then they have walking pads underneath those desks. So, and you'll see them in there just kind of walking along and, but it's, they're doing something in addition, you know, to, doing work, which, you know, can help as well. But for me, I've got to get out, I've got to do, go outside, go, go play golf or I got to do my workout classes. Got to do something to break that monotony up. Chris (18:16) Meh. Mm-hmm. So the questions during episode 351 that we asked you to think about, see we have questions in the beginning of the show and let you kind of listen to and think about it through the show. We asked you to think about why does the body sometimes stay in survival mode even when we are no longer in danger? What are the signs that chronic stress has turned into hypervigilance? And what actually helps the nervous system move from the survival mode back to regulation? Now, I just mentioned survival mode in that those questions several times. Survival mode is an interesting thing. We just don't have time to spend on it today. And I usually lose people when I try to describe ⁓ what happens with people in our psychological system. When we have regular chronic stress or things around us that trip us out or wear us out. Like a kid in an alcohol functional family system, there's always problems or things coming up. Neil (19:03) I don't think we're where we Chris (19:30) incredibly street smart, but they just don't have the ability to sit back and really process through the things that are happening in an event or in their week or in their month. And they just kind of move on to the next one. And people in military or police officers are stuck in survivor mode. They're constantly trauma is turning on their emotional systems and stuff. So survival mode basically is kind of just, you know, just that getting stuck in a logical. head-first framework and not really even understanding what your emotion is. It doesn't work very well when you're so compartmentalized that way. then we all can be there, you know? ⁓ Neil, I know you've heard about it before, but real brief, mean, is this survivor mode kind of concept, is that weird concept, Kyle, from your real world ears? Kyle (20:21) No, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, I'm like, it reminds me of like a washing machine, right? You're always stuck in the wash cycle, you never get to the rinse cycle. And so it's really kind of, if you want to put kind of an analogy behind it, it's like, you're always drowning and you can never, you can never come up for air. Chris (20:39) And what's interesting about it, I love the metaphor and I'm gonna use it, because I'm gonna steal that from you, it is like a washing machine. You're stuck in wash mode and never really able to kind of rinse that out. ⁓ But the thing is crazy about it is oftentimes people don't know it. Like they don't even know they're in that sort of boxed in state. Kyle (21:02) Because they're in that vicious cycle. they can, they just never, it's just part of their natural, you know, daily life. I mean, to them it's just like breathing. And they can never, you know, take a moment to understand like, what this is really doing to my life, how it's impacting my life, how it's impacting my mental state or anything. Chris (21:22) Neil, you love to say rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Neil (21:25) Exactly. And if you can't get to the rinse, you can't repeat, right? Chris (21:31) ⁓ And it gets into a chronic state where you enter in and Lisa talked about Lisa Donahue, the way, is fantastic. ⁓ Neal, I don't have it in front of me. I don't put it on our show notes. So ⁓ I want to do her justice and look up the other show notes and give her a little intro and stuff. I want to make sure that we get that out since we're talking about our content and stuff. I she talked about hypervigilance, right? Where you're in the survival mode. It's kind of really chronic. rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. You're always stuck in the wash cycle. These are great metaphors. The actual signs that I want you to understand that this might be you is when you have a difficult time relaxing, like more so than typical, you know, not like Kyle's tendency to multitask, right? We're talking about like, you really don't relax well. ⁓ You'll find yourself being irritable. You'll find yourself with sleep disruption and over analyzing things hypervigilance is thinking about and avoiding things that make you feel upset about ⁓ or trigger you. You assume danger is around the corner. You just know that there's going to be conflict if I bring something up to my husband or right or my emotions get upside down, up and down. They're very reactive. Like these, this is a way that combination of all of those things is the way that you end up falling into. when this is an issue for you, right? Does that make sense? Kyle (22:58) Absolutely. Yeah. And we said a lot, I think this last show that we talked about, you know, what gives you peace. And we talked about, you know, being able to sleep at night, those kinds of things. But if you're in that mode, you're not going to get that piece. Chris (23:16) Right? And I'm just pausing to really like look at like making the point that you might be listening to us and you might be thinking, especially if you're in survivor mode, yeah, I don't get that. Doesn't apply to me. I don't really even identify that list that you just read off. But I want to caution you to stop, pause and think for a minute because the reality of it is if you're in this, You typically do not realize that you're in this and you think that you're handling things well because you're on top of things all the time. Like you're the first person to see what dangerous figure just came in the room. You're the first person to decide what needs to happen in triage at a car wreck. You're the first in line for when something needs to be taken care of. Now it all looks great, but that's you because you're always ready. Now I'm saying the word always, temper that a little bit because permanency words tend not to make a lot of sense sometimes. I know that you can relax, but how easy is it to really just put the whole world down and just chill into your own space? Some people really struggle with that, Neil. Neil (24:29) You know, the one thing I got from Lisa, which I thought was hilarious, was she said that watching TV wasn't relaxing. Which goes back to you you watching your Penguins. How relaxing was you watching the Penguins game? Like, were you really relaxed? Is that really relaxing to you? I just thought that was interesting. Chris (24:35) I know. I was not relaxed at all. was highly stressed out, but the world did not exist besides who is going to score the first goal to win this game and extend it to game seven. So yeah, a good point, but it definitely takes everything else away. Neil (25:00) But the- The other thing that's interesting too, right? When you're in that hypervigilance, right? You get back, you go past the thing of the chronic stress because that's the buildup, right? You get to the hypervigilance. Now the interesting part to me is when you get out of that hypervigilance state, when you do movement to kind of help regulate yourself, it's that relief. know, it's, that's the part, if you go through emotion and you feel relieved or you feel like, wait, it's like, I don't know if you guys ever had like an injury, you know, back and knee, whatever it is, right? And then all of sudden you get up one day and it's like, wait, I don't hurt. Like what, what the heck is that? Right? It's weird because you've lived with the pain for so long, especially as we get older, our injuries are like, instead of being like, ah, I'm sore for an afternoon. It's like now it's like a week. That's the difference, right? With hypervigilance, you're in that state and you get used to that pain. And then when it finally goes away and you learn to regulate yourself, it's an unknown situation. You have, you're not used to, but when you fill in, notice it, that's when you realize, hey, something was wrong. Like you said before, when you're in the middle of it, you don't realize you're really doing it until you're out of it. Chris (26:11) And you say regulate, you know, that's a word that's used a lot. Let's deescalate our emotions. Let's regulate our systems. Let's, know, let's be mindful in the moment. Those are all good phrases. I just don't know that people understand, you know, the real world ways that Lisa taught us and was talking about, you know, how to really do that. Give her demos here in a second, Neil, by the way, before we forget, but the slow breathing, the movement that I just talked about, even those three, four minutes between sessions, two minutes doing a progress note, greeting someone goodbye, greeting someone hello. It's huge in the way that it changes my day. Stretching, you know, I will do some of those movements that she had me up and doing, you know, back here in the background as she had me doing a tornado and a volcano and different things that were really cool, but just basic stretching or, you know, pushups for on a bench or even on the ground, walking, you know, Kyle, you just said you walk all the time when you're on the phone. Grounding exercises and rhythmic movements. These are really important ways that honestly, that what they're doing is they're literally teaching your body, hey, calm down, stop working so hard, chill out, reset, okay, go, right? Neil (27:33) I quit that to someone who has ADD and they get their first dose of Ritalin and their brain can finally slow down. So the movements are like that medication for your body. When you kick those in, it's not going to solve your problem, but it's going to slow things down enough that you can now it. Like I said, if you're in a car and you're going 100 miles an hour, you're not going to stop and make that left hand turn. Now, if you apply the brakes and give yourself down to a controllable speed, Now you can go left and right. You can change lanes right. So that's the goal is these exercises away to go from this hyper vigilant to, ⁓ wait, I can process some stuff. I can look at this. can't, ⁓ now I'm breathing and now I can, ⁓ let me control what I have going on. So that's the part that you're looking at is you're getting your body to a point where it's no longer in this uncontrollable state that you can actually get to the point where you can dictate the next step or regulate. what you feel and how you process and what you think that becomes super super critical. By the way Lisa if you want to reach out to her it's createcom.org that's our website if you want to if you want to look her up and see what's going on createcom.org Chris (28:46) She's done a lot. Yeah. Go ahead, Kyle. Kyle (28:46) Hey, no, I was gonna say, you know, when you're saying talking about sitting in those meetings for, you know, three straight hours, you know, for me, I would get antsy. And the reason why I would get antsy is because I'm not in control of those, you know, those situations to some degree, because there's other people involved. And, you know, once I finally finished, and we talking about getting up and moving around, doing some stretches, whatever, you know, that I'm in control of, and that allows me to reset. So yeah, to your point, Neil, that's exactly how I would feel. Chris (29:21) So one of the things we do on a show is we take turns and we offer you practical questions about what it is that we're talking about, sort of as us being a therapist in the real time and the real moment with you. And I'm going to carry that on to when we do a review of the show. And so this is a practical question that I have for you, the listener, right? Thinking about this issue of hypervigilance and survival mode and deescalating, like what do we ⁓ do? you know, with these, these, these process of chronic stress and we're all stressed out all the time. Like I want you to think about for a moment, like what do you try to, to think of your way out? Like, what do you try to do? It's just, it's just in your mind. I'm sure that you have mental tricks and mental games and distraction techniques and all of those things are wonderful. But do you try to think your way out of stress? instead of actually regulating what your body is doing first. Because what happens with your body is it gets into this hypervigilant state. Again, a lot of times you don't even know it, but your body is releasing cortisol and cortisone and these chemicals that help you, like adrenaline, that help you deal with the crisis situation, oftentimes when there's not really a crisis. So if you just try to distract yourself or think through this stuff, it is going to be really hard to do. prior to actually deescalating your real body so that you tell your body to relax, tell your body to kind of chill out. You know, do you try to think your way out or do you understand that you have to take your body first? Right? Make sense? Yep. All right. Well, Lisa, that was the second time that Lisa Donahay was on our show. So we appreciate her coming back and Lisa, shout out to you. We'll move on to episode, uh, three 52. This is the good one. Kyle yikes. Grief and resilience, holding on, letting go and healing through loss. And next week, we're going to talk about how dogs are a part of that. What a awesome concept. I'm sure I can't wait to talk to John about that. Kyle (31:21) You Chris (31:33) Three questions, what losses in your life am I still carrying, I'm sorry, what losses in my life am I still carrying that may need more space or compassion? A lot of times we don't completely deal with the loss. We just move on. When we get another loss, we feel the first loss and the second loss and we do that again and we end up feeling the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and the sixth loss when we have the seventh loss. That's a bad process, by the way. All right, question number two, how? Has grief shaped who you are today, both in painful and in meaningful ways? And what does resilience actually look like when someone is grieving? What does it look like to be resilient? Kyle, I think you're a pretty open guy, so I feel comfortable. haven't prepared this for you, but I'm curious if you and I maybe can talk about like, you you just had a huge loss, right? You know, mean, losing to dad is not a simple thing. It's very powerful, visceral and real experience, existentially, to feel the support that a mother and father gives you. You may not have supportive parents, but there's an inherent support in your life listening that someone that had a part in creating you has. And when they die, And then if they are a supportive, encouraging, healthy person, that's regular part of your life, it's a different kind of loss. I mean, I'm not trying to minimize losing my sweet Sadie dog. Sadie Grace is a wonderful dog. She's a wonderful companion. I've had her for a lot of years, but she didn't have a hand in my life the way that dads do or moms, but in your case, dad. So I'm curious to maybe park out for just a moment. how does that grief shaped who you are a couple of weeks later? and in painful or meaningful ways. Kyle (33:28) Oof. know, big question, but good question. It's, ⁓ It's tough, you know, because there are times that, you know, you know, I talked, I talked to my dad a lot and you know, there are a lot of times that, you know, I'm still going through the grieving process because I want to reach out to him and talk to him about things and I can't, right? So, um, you know, cause I always talk to him, especially after I come off the golf course or anything like that, you know, I'd call him on certain days and, I just wouldn't be able to, I'm not able to do that anymore. And that, that hurts. Chris (33:53) Alright. Kyle (34:09) but on the upside, you know, something that helped me, and this is just me personally, I'm not going to say it helps everybody. One of the things I did is I gave his, ⁓ I gave a eulogy, at his funeral. ⁓ the one thing I did not want, because I, I know my dad, trust me, he, was very much a jokester. He would try to make light of any situation. Chris (34:23) man. Kyle (34:37) So one thing that, you know, I'm glad I did it because it helped me put him perspective and, you know, I got to say goodbye to him in a way that I think he would have appreciated. I kept it light and, you know, we had some jokes, we told some stories, we had some laughs, you know, during the funeral and, you know, but it was still amazing to see the amount of people that came out and supported the family. you know, say to say goodbye to him. Um, but it was, you know, that it was huge. It was huge, but it does. It does because, you know, I said in the eulogy, you know, my dad was always wanting to be there. Um, you know, he was, he never missed a game. He never missed a church event, a school event. He was always there, you know, Chris (35:14) shapes you in a lot of ways, it is a big question. Kyle (35:36) Is that my, you know, best man on my wedding? You know, those kinds of things, you these are the, yeah, these are the things that I always carry with me. And these are the good memories that I have to carry with me. But it does, it's, it's another part of the story that you don't know. So 26 years ago, I lost my brother at 14 to cancer. So, you know, between, you know, him, And then my dad, know, you know, it brought up memories of him too, because I was there when both of them passed by their bedside. So that it's, it's tough. And it's really even tougher when you had to make the decision that, okay, dad would not want to live on machines. So, you know, that makes it extra tough. That it's like, here's a man that I don't want to see go anywhere, but he wouldn't want that. So. Chris (36:33) Right. Kyle (36:35) Yeah, it's been a challenge, especially after the fact. Chris (36:40) Yeah. And I think, you know, the beauty of that is it, keeps shaping you even as you go forward. I mean, I was, I was bedside when my grandma died. That was the first important person in my life that died. And I thought it was beautiful. I am so glad that I was there. And the only other experience that I had is just, you know, a few weeks ago when Sadie died, me and my son were there for her last breath. And it was just, ⁓ Kyle (36:56) Yeah. Yeah. Chris (37:09) Just a surreal moment, just a beautiful moment. And I was so proud of my son being able to be there with me. And when my grandma died, my mom, my sister and my brother, and I was actually at the foot of the bed. were all, you know, we were all there together. And so it keeps on, I appreciate you talking. I know words are hard to say, they? Yeah. Kyle (37:31) It can, it can get deep. It is. Chris (37:35) And it's funny, you can feel things and you keep it together with her, but I know what it is about speaking words, man. You start speaking words, it's like I crack out, you know? I fully plan on speaking at ⁓ my mom's funeral, you she's in dementia care and I have such a strong feeling about her. She's my rock. She's a lot to me. She talk about meaning, man. She has a whole lot of meaning and I have so much that I want to say about her. I don't know how I can even speak. ⁓ Kyle (37:42) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that was exactly the thing. There was so much, I probably could have talked for an hour, but ⁓ I kept it down. ⁓ But it was, you know, it was funny, Chris. mean, here you are doing a show, doing this show, and I text you about my dad passing away. I mean, it was just, I mean, I don't know, was purely coincidental, but the timing was unreal. Chris (38:04) Yeah, easy. that was crazy. I know. Can't be Yeah, what what Kyle's referring to is when we were doing this episode 352 that we're on here we were literally recording the show and Kyle texts me that this happened in the moment that it happened with His dad and by the way Kyle publicly I'll say I'm very honored to be a I mean for you to even think of us or me or whatever was was really special to me and I appreciated that and hopefully we were helpful to you. But yeah, it was like literally in the middle of the episode. Call that a coincidence. I'm going to choose to believe it's more than a coincidence. Yeah, indeed. Neil, what's your thoughts here? I just want to bring you in a little bit and see, you know, kind of what you were thinking about all this and what you're observing. Kyle (39:01) Oh yeah, I agree. Yeah, totally agree. You know how I feel about that. Neil (39:17) See, my wife lost her aunt back in December. And as we do the shows, they'll talk to people about her art and be like, the series of The Birds she's been drawing. She started those because of her aunt. And there were many times she's talking to the people and then she just has to stop. So even four months later... you cause her aunt was like a second mother to her. You know, she, they always hung out. She lived at her house for a while. Like it's, it's so that's a, that's a relationship that as griefs, grieving is concerned. You're always going to go through flows. You're going to see things that remind you. And it's just like, it's always harder and we're supposed to do a service for her in a couple of weeks. Cause we waited cause it was cold and you know, it'll be intriguing to see what kind of closure that gives. But it's every, every person in your relationship, you're going to agree differently when you lose them, you know, whether that's based on your relationship, how close you guys were, all of those different things. ⁓ It's just kind of an interesting dynamic because I mean Chris, I saw you and your father pass recently and now I see how Kyle is. It's completely different dynamic because of the difference in the relationships. And it's okay to have, even if, once again, we talk about in the grief show, some people say, well I cry all the time, is that okay? Yes. I don't cry. Is that okay? Yes. I do this. Is that like... your grieving is your grieving. And so I think that's the biggest part about this, that it takes time. And I, once again, I go back to the same thing that Victoria said. Grief is always going to be there. It's just how much you grow around it. That's, that's the biggest part that people have to understand. You're not trying to get rid of your grief. You're just growing around it to be stronger. How to handle it. Every time you do it, hurts a little less, not because it's less painful, because I think people do think that, Hey, I'm not grieving anymore. Am I disrespecting the person? No, you're growing into a bigger person. And it just, that's, that's just how it is. Right. And so that's, that's. That's the interesting part about this. Kyle (41:16) up. Chris (41:16) wild, Kyle. I didn't understand this, man. You know, on the show, episode after episode, we do a shrink wrap up and, you know, all of us take turns, you know, reviewing the show and talking about what stuck out to us and what the takeaway might be and how things go. And, you know, I mean, I'm sitting there, my dog died. I'm sharing my grief. I think I even squirted a tear two out there. had a West Virginia ⁓ Country Roads song overplay and I tried to speak and I guess I didn't speak a lot, but thought it was a win, man. gave He just invoked Victoria again. Victoria got the dub. Neil (41:50) The audio quality wasn't there, Chris. I would have given it you, but the audio quality wasn't Kyle (41:51) I did you Chris (41:57) Fair enough noted. Kyle (42:00) Well, I will tell you and Neil, I think you made a good point because, you know, you're talking about growing around things and, you know, one of the things I learned through the process of talking with people and ⁓ his, his neighbors were very fond of him. And the root, one of the reasons why is, and even their daughter was more fond of them because she had grown up living across from them for 35, 36 years. And During some of the storytelling that I've had with folks and their neighbors while I'm staying at my mom's, the story came across as, yeah, my daughter wanted to be a Turner, which that was his name, Turner. And I'm like, huh? I'm like, what are you talking about, a Turner? She's like, I always want to grow to be a Turner. it's just, so now I'm tying this in because that was actually how I, it was a rally cry for everybody to go out there and be a Turner. It was, hey, look, yes, this is hard, but here's the legacy that he brought to the table, which was always being there, always lend a helping hand, no matter what, no matter, get outside, smell the roses, be a fierce friend, know, love the Lord. And it just, the list went on and on, but that's what it meant to be a Turner, to live outside the grief, go share his legacy instead. Chris (43:24) Yeah. No, I appreciate Kyle, you sharing and I wish I had had the honor and privilege of meeting your dad. I have not met him, but some of talking to you and hearing some things. He really sounds like a, he sounds like a man to meet is the phrase that comes to my mind. And thank you also for demonstrating in real time what we talked about on the show to wrap this episode up. What resiliency actually looks like. You know, cause we talk about that word. mean, it's starting to get into our culture, but we don't really sometimes know how to practice it. I hear people in therapy all the time. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. What am I supposed to do now? And you know, when you're going through a heavy hit, man, it, the world stops for you. I mean, it keeps on going for everybody else. were literally doing a show and when Kyle's world stopped, stead in his tracks, there's nothing going on and we're doing a show talking about grief and resiliency and stuff. you know, getting out of bed on a hard day, that's being resilient. Letting yourself cry without shame. I make jokes a little bit, but I don't feel shameful about crying on air a little bit with my dog dying. Or sometimes even in sessions if something is touching. Reaching out instead of isolating. That's a big part of what resiliency looks like. You know, saying even to yourself or out loud, look, this is hard. Instead of pretending I'm fine. I'm good. You know, we all want to appear strong, so to speak. We all want to appear that we got our stuff together, like we can be unrattled for some reason, especially in the American culture. I know this is with the Hispanic culture, Central America. I know the Germans have their stiff upper lip. I'm sorry, the British, the Germans have their sort of stoicism sort of element. All around the world, I think it's probably pretty common to think, I don't want to let them see a sweat. That's more of an American term, right? true resiliency is speaking the truth, Kyle, in what it is that you're demonstrating for us. I appreciate it because resiliency is built through small little practical moments. repeated acts of compassion and self-compassion and caring and, you know, I mean, giving a eulogy is, that's for your own dad is, is, ⁓ brother, that's resilient in action. Good stuff. Good, good stuff. All right. I, know, this episode wasn't even together me. I don't even have a, practical question because I wasn't right in my head. didn't do the show. I could probably make it up pretty easily. Neil (46:16) This was Casey's one, right? Chris (46:18) What's that? He did. Yeah, yeah. Neil (46:18) Casey did the show notes for this one, right? She did that. But I think that when I was doing the shorts, or you recommended the shorts, the one thing that she also, because I'll watch the shorts when they come back up, know, obviously want to get the stats stuff. the one thing she also said is you need to be OK with finding joy after the loss and the grief. Because there's a lot of people who feel bad because they become happy in moments, or they find joy in moments. That's another sign of resilience for her that is basically finding joy in your life, right? So that's because you talk about crying and it's okay to cry, out, but it's also okay to find joy and happiness, happy thoughts, know, living your life and being happy in those moments, you know, it's just the way things are. So I want to make sure that we emphasize that when it comes to resiliency, when you lose something, it's okay to be happy afterwards. It's okay to find joy afterwards. because that also helps you get back to normalcy. It helps you get to where you want to go. Chris (47:18) Kids are amazingly resilient in the sense that I like to say is they're so emotionally present, probably somewhat Kyle like dogs, be honest with you. Dogs are not as cognizant, they're more emotionally experiencing and kids are like that. Man, they might be crying a puddle on one minute and then the next minute they're laughing their ass off going around playing kickball. mean, it's absolutely delightful and delightful resiliency. ⁓ Kyle (47:44) You know, something else that, know, I've seen a lot of people when they lose someone that's very, very close to them and, It's kind of almost like they retreat into a, you know, where they can't be happy, where they struggle to find happiness. There may be moments that they find they see a happiness, but they struggle. And I go back to always thinking, you know, just like my dad and a very good friend of mine that passed away several years ago. If they were here, they would want us to be happy. They would want us to laugh. They would want us to smile. They would not want us to retreat back into a shell. Chris (48:17) Mm. Kyle (48:23) and not have that happiness. They want us to savor every moment. And I think everybody should keep those kinds of things in mind because if they were here, they would make sure you were happy. Chris (48:36) Sounds like you might be talking about a certain parent figure, brother. Kyle (48:42) Maybe a little. Chris (48:43) Yeah, I love that and and and the points are are strong and And I yeah, I've heard many people say you know like hey when I die man I want you to have a party on my funeral. I don't want you to be all you know sad and whatever but but we're gonna feel sad we're gonna we're gonna be upset and and you know, that's that's that's kind of normal as well ⁓ Dang it. I'm not finding it quickly enough. I get off this episode and go to the next one, but I wanted to kind of send you to our website and hit you with, maybe I didn't search it yet. I think that's what happened. didn't search it. There we go. Awesome. Love and Logic is something I always mention about the process of how to deal with a parent-child relationship. ⁓ And ⁓ we're talking about that next show, episode 353. And Love and Logic is episode 15. So that's going all the way back to the beginning where we talked about, ⁓ you know, ⁓ a standard stat point of how to deal with kids. Why? Because episode 353 title was millennial parents are ditching these 11 parenting trends. Are they right? We had fun with this, think, Neil. We're going to go very quickly through this because I want to get to the last show and save time for that. So we're going to spend only a couple of minutes on it. But it was a it was a fun show because I came just across an article. And they were talking about all of these things that the millennials are ditching. Like, you know, now in their parent child relationship, and we were able to have Casey and Victoria comment on them last week. It was really fun to kind of go through the different realities of what ⁓ the millennial parents, because they're growing up, y'all. We kicked at the millennials for years and years and years, and now they're growing up and having kids and they're doing a good job, contrary to what we may have thought they were going to do. Fine, millennials are fine. Kyle, do you know that us Gen X parents messed the millennials up like we're actually to blame? Did you know that? Kyle (50:44) I hadn't heard that. I had not heard that. Chris (50:47) Dude, I tell you what, a client told me that he's a millennial and he said, Chris, you know, we have fun and therapy, it not. We laugh and have fun. So he looked at me dead in the eyes one day and he said, Chris, I just want you to know something. You know, I'm a millennial and us millennials, all we wanted to do is play soccer. That's all we wanted to do. We just want to run around play with our kids. And he looked at me and he did this. He pointed at me. He's like, you all gave us those trophies. I felt so convicted because I literally have stood up on high five sports where my kids were and I was coaching, giving the best spinner in the outfield for little Sally and the best bench sitter for Johnny. You know, I gave those trophies out brother. I feel terrible, but I was just doing what I was told. Right. So, ⁓ I want to rapid fire this so we can go to the next show. Kyle (51:36) Exactly. Chris (51:42) Here's the way want to do it is these are the actual 11 things that the article said the Millennials are ditching. Kyle, I just want you to say, yes, I've heard of that as a trend and ⁓ I'm going to ditch it in a sentence about why. Let's rapid fire these. Okay. We'll see what brilliant parenting ability and strategies you have. All right. Ready? Okay. Complicated chore charts. Kyle (52:03) Let's go. I didn't know they were ditching it, I could see that. mean, because you think about when we were kids, we got to do all this, do this, do this, do this before you could go outside. Chris (52:12) Yeah. Right. So did you know this is a trend and do you agree or disagree and why you already said, well. Kyle (52:20) Yeah. I didn't know it was a trend, but I don't necessarily agree with it because kids do, they do slack off and they need some responsibility. They need to keep their rooms clean, know, ⁓ basics. I'm not saying like, you know, they need like 20 things they have to do, but you know, there's, you know, they'd give them a handful of things they were responsible for. Chris (52:36) ⁓ wow! Let's see how this goes Neil. He might be a hard parent. He's gonna keep the complicated short chart. Alright, avoiding the word no. Millennials are saying, I'm not, gonna say no. They don't want to avoid the word no anymore. Did you know that's a trend and do you agree why? Kyle (53:03) No, I didn't know that was a trend, I think everybody should be told no. Chris (53:09) He's gonna keep that ditching. Number three, villainizing timeout. Did you know that people are now villainizing or that they were villainizing timeout? Kyle (53:20) No, what are they replacing it with? Chris (53:24) ⁓ good question. ⁓ I guess you're going to join that party and ditch the villainizing. ⁓ this is easy. Kyle (53:30) Yeah, yeah, go tell somebody to stand in the corner of a round room. Let's see what happens. Chris (53:36) This one's easy number four did you know it was a trend to do what helicopter parenting? Kyle (53:44) ⁓ yeah, is it? That's a trend now? Chris (53:45) Yeah, it's a trend to ditch it, guess. What was that, Neil? I'm confused with myself. I didn't write enough on that one. Neil (53:51) Yeah, so basically the idea is that you have a lot of these parents who do everything for their kids. They're always helping them. They're always getting them out of trouble. It goes back to the idea or the common joke about the kid who goes to the job interview and his mom goes with him or his dad goes with him. It's that extent of the helicopter parenting. No, that's just the standard one that most people say like. Chris (54:10) Did you do that on purpose, I feel like, feel like I was, I feel like I was targeted there, Neil. Neil (54:23) You know, if you do something and it makes you feel guilty, then you probably shouldn't have done it. Chris (54:28) Kyle I shared on the show that I was that parrot for my second kid you had to listen that episode There's reason behind it. There's up there, but ⁓ yes, you have to you've gone to a job interview with your kid ⁓ Kyle (54:33) I have to. No, ⁓ no, no, no, no, no, no, I have not done that. I'm one of these, hey, teach a kid how to fish and let them, you know, yeah, that's me. Chris (54:45) I understand, but he was struggling. All right. I'm feeling weird. need to move on. five, the trend that the millennials are kicking is turning kids bedrooms into Instagram, Instagram decor. Did you know that? Kyle (54:48) Thank ⁓ that's a trend? That was a trend to begin with? Chris (55:03) Yeah. To turn it into like some crazy decorative. Yeah. Kyle (55:10) Yeah, don't know. mean, I think I don't agree with that one in first place. But kids these days are going to see something on social media anyway. They're going to that's how they do it. So I can totally see it. But yeah, I don't blame them for ditching that one. Chris (55:23) Yeah, exactly. Hiding evidence that kids live in the house. Kyle (55:30) No, they're supposed to live in the house. Chris (55:33) Yeah. I mean, I didn't know it was a trend either. didn't know half of these things were a trend in parenting where you'd like to have to have your house perfectly clean and whatever. absolutely. Listen, it's a wreck. Just own it. It's a wreck. Seven was a trend for over planning birthday parties. Kyle (55:40) No, be proud that you have kids. You have kids, it's going to be dirty. You're going to have stuff everywhere. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, I've seen some very extravagant birthday parties and yeah, I knew that one and I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't think you need to spend $10,000 on a birthday party, right? Chris (56:01) You knew that was a trend, yeah. ditching that one as well. Ditching that one as well. I'll tell you what, I would have absolutely loved it if my parents would have done the Hall of Fame, the Hall of Justice rather. They had the Hall of Justice and everyone came with their thing. Like as a kid, I'd be like, but go ahead and ditch that one for sure. Let me see. Buying ⁓ parenting guides that promise solutions. That was a trend. That was a trend. Kyle (56:18) Yeah, I Right. That was a trend. I don't blame them for ditching that one. Trust you instincts. Look, I mean, no, but we didn't have those guides back then. My parents didn't have those guides. Yeah. Chris (56:39) No. No. Yeah. Exactly. Trust your instincts. That's actually one of the things that we landed on number 11. It was a trend to ignore parenting instincts. Don't do that. said. Kyle (56:57) That was a trend to ignore those. Chris (57:00) That was a trend! Don't Yeah. All right. The practical question that I have for you listening to episode 354, Millennials Ditching These Trends, is, you know, are you a parent based on what works for your family? Or are you a parent based on pressure that you hear, trends that you see, things that you see on social media? And if we're being honest, if you're being honest, if we're all being honest, we live in a society that is advanced. Kyle (57:03) Get rid of that, trust your instincts. Yeah. Chris (57:32) technology rapidly, so rapidly we make our head spins and we cannot keep up. And so if you are able to base your parenting on what works for you and your family, then you also probably at the same time have pressure. And parent guilt is a thing. We've done shows on it before. ⁓ Stop it. Stop shaming parents and doing what they're doing. And you, I hope, are you able to base what you do for what works or what's on pressure? ⁓ it's a hard thing, hard thing to be a parent, but let's move on before we're out of time to episode three 54, new to dating from pandemic teens to midlife singles skills for building connection. There's the questions we ask her what social skills are most important when someone is new to dating. How has COVID disruption affected young people learning to socialize and date in a lot. And then three, what similarities exist between teenagers entering the dating world and then adults, us, Kyle, our age, adults returning to dating later in life? Did you know there's similarities there? Kyle (58:46) I'm so glad I'm not in the Danish world. Chris (58:49) Be glad, brother. Kyle (58:52) I hear too many horror stories. Chris (58:55) Man, I can't tell you how many times people have said that to me. You know, with divorcing and all and dating and I'm sick of hearing that, but it's ⁓ It's Neil, what'd you think about the dating show, bro? Neil (59:12) I think with the dating show, biggest key was just get out there. And I think that's kind of the start. Do the stuff you want to, make physical connections, don't do the apps, don't do those types of things. That was kind of the thing we kind of felt on, right? I think that goes back to, like you said, with the COVID teens, right? What happened with COVID? Everyone went back to their houses and no one had, everyone had to through the technology, right? And I think that's where it's really hurt the COVID teens is, I mean, have you ever tried to watch a teenager actually Chris (59:28) Mm-hmm. Neil (59:41) like talk to someone or like confront someone or try something new in person. It's one of the most awkward, I feel awkward when I watch someone do that sometimes like I feel bad for them. So that was a good thing. Chris (59:52) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to pause here a little bit and slow down because I think that when we're talking about dating, we really do need to pay attention to what happened with almost an entire cohort because for four or five, six years, you know, these kids were affected whether COVID happened in the eighth grade, seventh or eighth grade, you know, everything shut down. and you were not prepared to enter into high school, or if it happened to you as a junior or senior in high school, you didn't get to capstone your experience. And I happen to feel the worst is actually when COVID hit for your freshman year. It's exactly the worst time. Because literally, like for that seven, eight year pocket, that window, pushing 10 years, kids were affected in so many ways. And we are still, literally still working out. what it is like to be in that space. I mean, when you have not had a freshman year to be a high schooler and sophomore year as well, by the time you come back as a junior, you really don't even know how to be in high school. And what about the class of 2020 where you didn't have a graduation, you didn't have a prom like no one did. The entire group doesn't understand what having a prom is. I mean, it's a It was devastating and I've seen that in my clients. I've saw that in my personal children and it's, yeah, it's going to take a little while to dig out of the deficits that are there. Kyle (1:01:30) Yeah. Chris (1:01:32) I think you're muted, Kyle. Kyle (1:01:34) Yeah, totally agree with that. mean, I still see, ⁓ you know, kids that went through that, you know, that were part of high school. They, all they know how to do is that technology. They text, they, you know, they do, you know, some type of email, you know, they don't know how it is like back in the day when we had to pick up the phone and call, call the girl's house and the dad answers, right. Or the mom answers and you have to talk to them first and you have to properly introduce yourself and you have to be cordial. And then if you pass the cordial test, then you can talk to the daughter, right? You have to, but you have to know who you are, full name, who's your parents and all that kind of stuff before you can get to talk to the daughter. They don't understand. That's right. And they don't, and in kids these days, but you're doing it through the technology and they were able to hide. And once you get them in, you know, I'm always a big fan of, you know, personal interaction, you know, getting out of meeting people, but they don't know how to do that. Chris (1:02:15) And you better say, sir, and yes, ma'am. Kyle (1:02:31) They don't know how to have a physical conversation, which is not only going to impact the dating life, it's also going to impact other parts of their life, their social life, their job life, all these other aspects of them growing up. Chris (1:02:43) You know, I really have thought a lot about this issue, but I haven't thought about it ironically in the combination of the two. First of all, item number one, what I believe to be the biggest challenge that humanity has faced in the history of humanity itself. That being the rapid change of technology paired with the COVID reality of not having those social experiments and experiences. Wow. That seriously is a hell of a combination. Kyle (1:03:13) Yeah, it's crazy to think about and I still see a lot of people that have gone through that. A lot of young people, I should say. When they came out of it, they're very awkward when they meet somebody in person. And it's because they just didn't have that connection with the group of teens like they would typically have. They didn't have... Chris (1:03:13) Very big. Kyle (1:03:40) Especially you were talking about the you being a freshman in high school, you know high school is very clickish anyway You've got these different groups, you know that you could be a part of and They didn't have the chance to you get face to face with them They may they had a zoom session or they had a text session. That's all they got they didn't you know get the high five somebody have forever doing something good or You know to make a joke, you know that where everybody was laughing, you know hysterically in front of each other, you know, that's That's something that we get to experience. Chris (1:04:10) Here's an interesting thing. How many COVID kids missed getting a crush on their fourth grade teacher? Right? You're not going to get a crush as a fourth grader on your cute teacher, you know, over Zoom, are you? That'd be hard. Kyle (1:04:16) There you go. Something like that, No? Exactly, mean, but those are the kinds of things they miss out on. Absolutely. Chris (1:04:33) Yeah. And so if you think I'm in midlife and got all my stuff figured out, I would challenge you in this moment because interestingly, adults return to dating after divorce or long relationships and they're freaking out too, man. They're similar feelings or had they don't know social skills. I can't tell you how many times people in therapy tell me I don't have friends and I don't know how to go make them. So dating in midlife, you struggle just the same. mean, You think you're all put together, but I'll tell you what, until the rubber meets the road and you got to go out there and hit on somebody for the first time and you ain't done that for, you know, 15 years, 10, 15, 20 years or 30 years. Like your social confidence is struggles. The fear of rejection is real. And I know you're out there saying, Oh, I don't care anymore. I don't have feelings. I don't buy that for a second. I'll be straight with you. Uncertainty about modern dating norms and what these apps are. the online culture and the vulnerability that is required to, as you said, Neil, put yourself out there. Dude, Neil, I don't think that we do very well as much as we think that we're prepared for it when we get ourselves into midlife dating. What say you? Neil (1:05:39) Well, I think so when a teen's dating is the unknown, Not really knowing how to regulate. As an adult and you've been through trauma and you've gone through rejection, you know what that feels like, you know those pains and now you're going to go back into that thing, not from a series of unknown. Like I'm not really sure how this is going to feel or act, but to know how it feels to be rejected, to know how it's felt like, I just got divorced from my spouse and now I have to have my baggage with me, right? There's all of this stuff that comes into it. So it's just as traumatic for a midlife person as it is a teenager, but it's a different type of anxiety. One is the unknown, one is the known. Depending on the trauma you have, right? If you have, if this is your, you know, fourth marriage or fifth marriage, it's gonna be different. By then you get good practice, you're probably great at dating, but. Chris (1:06:19) You'd stick, probably, with what you're saying even more. Neil (1:06:32) But once again, if you had bad relationships and you try to get into a new one, it's gonna be the traumas there, right? ⁓ It can be a lot harder. And once again, if you really lived in a bubble and then you go into and try to incorporate things that you don't know like technology and you feel uncomfortable there, then there's an added stress. Now, if you go and you say, okay, I'm gonna go look for it and I'm just living my life normal, I'm going to Target, I'm going to Publix, I'm going to the places I normally go, I'm going to the Whitewater Center, go hang out. That makes sure like, so what I would say is if you go to look at dating, keep your life as normal as possible. See who you find there, those connections as it was stated. And that becomes a, that makes your life a lot easier when it comes to getting over those humps. know, it's easy, as John said in the thing, it's easier to start dating or getting to know someone from a personal connection. Like, know, hey, you know, Chris, Kyle has this friend he wants you to, you know, to meet. That connection, that trust helps. hurt, know, build that. Also, if you go in a group and you're in that group setting and they're all doing the same stuff, that breaks down that barrier. Now you go in and meet someone by yourself at a bar, it's going to be really awkward, right? So you do the things when you start looking at these situations, the more you can make your interactions more normal for you, the easier it is to connect because you don't have that added stress. So just keep that in mind too. Whether you're going to the same place all the time, you know, whatever it is as an age or as a teenager, go to the same places you're used to and go, hey, that girl's cute or that boy's cute. Let me go talk to them because now you have that, there's less humps to get over, right? So I think that. Chris (1:08:10) lot. And I'll tell you, I love, I love some of the things you're saying, Neil, and you guys could both attest, you know, part of my strategy for how am going to meet somebody? What do I want to do? I did several things and I probably should do a show on that and full force, spend some time on it. But, uh, I tried to go with the Robinson dating service. You remember that Neil? Yeah. I tried to go with the Kyle King dating service. Remember that Kyle? Neil (1:08:27) mm-hmm yeah Kyle (1:08:33) yeah! Chris (1:08:34) Right? And I think honestly, y'all don't need to answer this, but I've done that with several people. told my friends, was like, okay, if you know somebody like, you know, I'm interested, you know, just maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. had a dude that, that really kind of had a referral for their dating service. Uh, and, and then I talked to the lady and was, it was great. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. And then also don't be afraid to kind of be a part of that with your friend. Cause I think people feel very awkward. I mean, talk about. being awkward in the dating situation. think friends and other people also feel awkward. Like I could tell some people were really freaked out and asked me like, how's the dating thing going or when are you going to date or what's that girl like? Or, you know, and then they found out about speed dating and everybody wanted to know how that went though. So it's, hard. It's hard to put yourself out there and engage the situation, but tune into through a therapist eyes episode three 54. to kind of get more insights about what you do, how to do it. Because many people enter dating believing you got to perform instead of simply showing up authentically. And I'm going to tease your brains to see we talked about being authentic on that show and I want you to hear that. But we'll wrap up on the practical question. Do you approach dating? This is an important distinction. I want you to think about for a minute. If you are new to dating or you need to date or you're thinking about getting out or you're a young person happened to be listening to this show and you're new to it in life, do you approach this with curiosity or do you approach this with anxiety? And that is a very big distinction between being curious about this person, this process, or being terrified with all of the anxiety that goes into it. And if you're going to try to tell me you don't have anxiety going on a date, I'm going to tell you, you're a liar. Okay. Summary, closings ups, what she's thinks about this topic dating Kyle. Any, any, any closing thoughts? Kyle (1:10:42) No, no, I totally agree is don't be somebody you're not. ⁓ If you do that, you're going to set yourself up for failure, you know, in any relationship. You know, make that connection as we as we've already talked about. If there's not a connection, don't force it. you can't make that connection is no, you're not doing yourself any favors to try to force it because again, it's just not going to work. ⁓ But yeah, I think. Be present when you go out on these dating. You know, don't be looking at your phone. Don't be doing any of this. Be present. Look somebody in the eye. Have these meaningful conversations. Don't be like that, you know, was it the Geico commercial where, you know, now we turned into our parents and we're talking about the rubber on our, you know, the tires and stuff or whatever, right? Don't be that person. You know, you know, have meaningful conversations. That's going to move the needle. Chris (1:11:28) Yeah. So you can't text your date on a date? Kyle (1:11:39) No! Chris (1:11:45) I hope you've never done that if you're listening to the show. But I'm willing to bet somebody has texted their date on a date meal. Dear dear. Neil (1:11:55) I've read the horror story of the girl who dated her or who texted her friend about the date and accidentally texted the date instead. I don't remember if good or bad, but it was one of those things it's like the guy's like, what did you just? Cause I think he checked it after she went to the bathroom or something, it was funny. but no, it's. Chris (1:12:03) Be careful with your technology. Yeah I'm sorry, Neil. Neil (1:12:17) It's really interesting because my oldest kid just broke up with his girlfriend that he met in college. And but it's interesting because I've had some interesting conversations about it. And he's like, you know, I feel really more relaxed. I feel like I could be myself because you change yourself as you date. Right. And one thing I told him, said, just remember this feeling, because if you're if you don't have this feeling with the next person you start dating, you have to you have to understand is that who you want to be with. And we change as you're in relationship, you change yourself to Chris (1:12:21) I'm sorry. That sucks. Neil (1:12:47) you know, match the flow of the person you're with, right? I'm different than I was 20 some odd years ago before I met my wife, but I'm still happy with this relationship and who I've become and who I am. So I told him that is that if you're dating someone and you, it's not the same as you feel now, you don't feel as good about yourself or you're making a lot of compromising, you know, you're, you're compromising more than they are. You just don't feel the same. Just remember that. So as you go out and you start new dating, think about what the life is now, how you feel about yourself. how you feel about your values and different things and keep that as a gauge as you meet new people and get a new relationship. So that just, it was an interesting topic. We've had this last week and you know, he's moving on and we'll see what comes from this. Chris (1:13:32) Neil, you're such an awesome parent. I mean that as a genuine compliment, really and truly. Neil (1:13:36) I Chris (1:13:38) Yeah, good stuff. Kyle, I think you and I are gonna have some sushi in a little bit. You down? ⁓ All right. Listen, have a great week. We love talking to you from a through a therapist eyes and these month in reviews are really cool times that we could sit down with Kyle and Neil comes out of the curtain and I just love and appreciate that we could just kind of kick these shows around and make your own sense of them. Cause you know, this is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together. So take care, stay well. We'll see you guys next week. Kyle (1:13:43) Let's do it.