In this episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we take a closer look at 11 parenting trends millennials are ditching in 2026 and explore what that shift means for families today. From stepping back on helicopter parenting and over-the-top birthday expectations to reintroducing boundaries like saying “no” and allowing kids to experience consequences, the panel breaks down each trend through a clinical lens—asking whether these approaches actually support emotional health or unintentionally increase stress for both parents and children. Along the way, we examine the growing tension between expert-driven parenting advice and trusting your own instincts, highlighting how simplicity, consistency, and authenticity often matter more than perfection. Grounded in the Love & Logic framework, this conversation emphasizes empathy, responsibility, and real-world learning, offering practical questions to help parents reflect on what truly works for their family—and what might be worth letting go.
Tune in to see the 11 parenting trends that are being ditched Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Are modern parenting trends helping families—or creating more stress and pressure?
- How do parents balance expert advice with trusting their instincts?
- What actually matters most when raising emotionally healthy kids?
Links referenced during the show:
Millennial Parenting Trends Being Ditched in 2026
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2012-15622-006
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11315249
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/kidsand
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/anxietyanddepression/parenting
Chapter 1.24 – Boundaries are important markers between others and us.
Children benefit from clear structure and expectations.Chapter 1.24 – Boundaries are important markers between others and us.
Children benefit from clear structure and expectations.
Chapter 14 – Learn your partner.
Understanding personality and temperament applies equally to parenting.
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
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Episode #353 TranscriptionChris (00:01) Good evening, good morning, or good afternoon, depending upon when you hear this show. This is Through a Therapist's Eyes. Welcome to another edition of What We Do. This is episode 353. Those numbers are climbing. We're going to be talking about, I think this is going to be a fun show today, where we're talking about millennial parenting, right? And... Because we haven't talked about parenting a lot for a little while and I just came across an article that I thought was kind of fun. I wanted to kind of run down through it where they're ditching these parent trends. And so we're going to play around with it and see if we kind of agree with what the trends are. Some of the trends, John, I didn't even know that they were there. So ⁓ we have an interesting split screen though, Casey, and I think Victoria is not going to be able to be with us today. Casey had some ball games and Victoria had a splitting headache. She didn't look good all day to be honest. ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (00:57) This is a millennial's. ⁓ I'm not supposed to say that Casey's a millennial. Chris (01:04) You're already starting out rough man, that is mr. John Pope who hangs out with us. How are you sir? John-Nelson Pope (01:09) doing well, thank you, considering. Yeah. Chris (01:12) And welcome back, yes, considering you had a rough week. We talked about your dad and ⁓ the funeral and it's nice to see your smiling face and I know you've had a hell of a time of it. So how are you doing and welcome back. John-Nelson Pope (01:26) Well, thank you very much. I'm processing and, you know, I know about the sadistic about the grief period. It's usually anywhere from a year to 18 months for good grief and processing that. Now, on the other hand, my experience is that I'm actually undergoing this ⁓ quite late in life. I've lost my grandparents many years ago. but I was much younger at the time. My father was 99 and I'm 72 and I had never lost a parent until my brother and sister lost a parent until then. So this was, it's not easy. Chris (02:16) Wow. Right. John-Nelson Pope (02:22) But there is also the sense that life was well lived. then there was a real comfort because of our, I believe, our faith and my father's faith. And so I think it was very helpful in the long run. My mom is very bereft. She was married 75 years. 75 years. I was a long marriage. It was a happy marriage. Chris (02:45) Wow, 75 year long marriage. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome, John. What a beautiful thing. Well, I told you, man, I really felt a special pull. It was really cool that you were in Florida. You were kind of where you needed to be and you felt that you knew it and the timing couldn't have been better in that regard, Yeah, yeah. John-Nelson Pope (02:53) Yeah, we don't want to lose mom now, so. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for all your well wishes and prayers. Chris (03:15) and ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (03:25) Yeah. You know what we did? Mom wanted country roads for my dad and that was the last song. we, yeah, yeah. Chris (03:40) hell yeah, hell yeah ⁓ Absolutely love that dude, that's awesome I'm sorry, I'm geeking out on that. That's that's all let me get my intro stuff together here This is through a therapist eyes where you get insights in your home or in your car But knowing it's not to delivery of therapy services in any way look we are truly licensed clinical therapists doing real clinical work every day And this is where we talk honestly John-Nelson Pope (03:47) It is. We're hillbillies, Chris (04:08) and openly about what actually helps. That's what you get here. We blow up stereotypes and myths and disseminate information about mental health and substance abuse. So subscribe, click. Listen, I have an apology to deliver. All right. We should probably hopefully make this into a short ⁓ because we put shorts out on the show and I have personally been neglectful at responding. I kind of just didn't get oriented to the new YouTube thing and uh... you know neil kinda has shown me and i'd just i'd it's it's all my fault i'd i'd really take that very seriously that uh... i want to respond so we respond to everything in the read everything that you you share with us and so i will be doing that better uh... i might my apologies honestly and truly to everyone to listen to us across the world i'm gonna get better at responding and seeing that stuff and i'm geeked up now and in knowing how to do that thank you neil for being patient with me brother and guiding me through kind of how that works. we are up to, do we know Neil the exact number? Like almost 400 and some change. 392. So I've given people a little bit of grief, you know, as far as we haven't had a new YouTube subscriber and Neil did check me on that a few several weeks ago and. Neil (05:17) 392. Yep. Chris (05:31) We do, we're getting there. So you're doing your job and I really appreciate it. We really appreciate that you tell somebody, you talk to somebody. We want to get YouTube subscribers on specifically and especially. We want to pump it to a thousand. ⁓ Help us meet that goal by telling at least one person about a particular episode. Tell them to listen to it and subscribe particularly on YouTube. But John, I want to tell you Casey did a good job on the five stars, man. She held it up for you. She held it down. She did it right. Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (05:57) Good outstanding. Chris (06:01) How many stars are they supposed to give us? John-Nelson Pope (06:01) She has that mind that can see things. Chris (06:09) She does, I'll move on. Contact it through therapisteyes.com is the way to contact us and interact with us. This is the human emotional experience which we do endeavor to figure out together. ⁓ Look, so parenting, we haven't talked a lot about parenting in a little while, and what we're gonna do next week is let Casey and Victoria sort of pipe in and see if they agree with us. And Neil, I didn't say it off the air, but can you track the 11, create a little document or whatever so we remember what John and I had agreed to and we'll see if they can agree to keep it or ditch it. Neil (06:43) I added a section for keep it digit so we can just update it on each of the points. Chris (06:50) Well don't put it on the points on the show because they will see that. I'm sorry. Love that. Thank you. Thank you. All right, John, let's do this show, man. What do you think about parenting? What are we doing here? Millennial parenting, millennial parents are ditching these 11 parenting trends. Are they right? That's kind of the title that we went with. So what I did is I just kind of found an article. I wanted to kind of. Neil (06:54) OK, I'll get you squared away. I got that. You guys do the show. I'll get you squared away. You're welcome. Chris (07:19) Google scoot around, was thinking what we want to talk about and I came across this and I was like parenting trends. That's an interesting concept. How so explain that? John-Nelson Pope (07:27) That's an oxymoron! No, I was teasing you. was teasing you. was just saying, you know, I'm a boomer and I'm going to say hello, boomer, you know, so that they, because, ⁓ that's right. But what is ditching? What does that mean? Chris (07:44) so you don't get those emails. Yeah. John? What do mean, what is ditching? When you ditch something? John-Nelson Pope (07:56) Well, I just want to get. ⁓ So how can they be a trend if they're ditching them? What does that mean? They're leaving them behind. They're throwing them to the curb. They're right. Right. Chris (08:05) There, it's. Yes, yes, they have these, these ideas, these trends that they think should be a part of, of parenting and, uh, and they don't work so they ditching them or they're keeping them. we're, going to, we're going to. Okay. John-Nelson Pope (08:19) Yeah, and they don't work, right? Yeah, I understand that now. That's right. As you get older, you start losing your ability to do abstract thinking and conceptualization. Chris (08:33) I'm trying not to say anything about that. I guess I'm right with you brother. So what I did is I was looking at these trends and I was kind of like, wow, that's interesting because what are these trends? And I feel like I'm so interested in that because of my, I feel like one of most important topics we have, as I've said now on this show, if you've been listening, you know, I feel like humanity's greatest challenge in the history of humanity. is right now and it isn't technology, it's the rapidly advancing pace of technological change. We emotionally just can't keep up with it. And I think this is another specific area where that really gets impacted. People are kind of getting all of this information, John, and they have all of these trends for sure, right? So it's like, wow, ⁓ what are these trends I was actually thinking about? And in part that goes because my neighbor, ⁓ I gotta be careful here. ⁓ I don't think it matters. John-Nelson Pope (09:21) Yeah. Chris (09:29) my neighbor. John-Nelson Pope (09:31) You're not gonna get a bag of flaming dog poop in your front. Chris (09:35) I don't know, man. His kid might be mad at me, but I don't think I don't know if Jordan listens to show. If you do brother, I'm sorry, Jordan. I love you, man. But we were talking about this. So they were a new parent about a year or two ago, right? And they had this whole list of newborn rules. Right, John? Yes. I think we did. I think we did. And we literally found where this exact list came from online. John-Nelson Pope (09:53) Yeah, we talked about this before, I think. Yeah. Chris (10:03) And it was just, bro, it was just some stupid stuff that you can't. It is not the way that we need to be bringing kids up in 2020 at the time 2024. So I was wondering what the trends are and this article caught my eye. And so you'll see it on the show notes and everything, but I figured, John, let's just go down through them and, see, uh, see if we agree or how we feel about it and he'll keep track of it for us. But. But how do you feel like Millennials parenting? You're solidly Boomer. I'm solidly in the middle of X. You know, I guess, Neil, you can pipe in. You want to play with us today or is just John and I? Neil (10:43) I'll play a little bit. I'm in that board and like I said, Casey and me are the same age. We're the... In some things we're considered Millennials, but we don't like to think it because, you know, there's a difference. We're special. Chris (10:54) Yeah, I mean you're older Millennials and it's definitely almost somebody was telling me there's like a name for it What is it? Neil (11:01) Zennials, Zennials, we're Gen X millennials, we're Zennials. From 80 to 85. Chris (11:06) I think that's what they said. I reject that. think that's stupid, Johnny. Come on. Neil (11:12) probably get jaded. John-Nelson Pope (11:12) You know, you know, the thing is all this is arbitrary. Yeah. It is far from it. Chris (11:16) It is totally. It's fun though. It's fun though. But anyway, you're a boomer more so. I'm Gen X. Neil and Casey are arguably older millennials and Victoria is a younger millennial. And what's interesting, next week we'll get a quick rundown on what Casey and Victoria think because they're actively in it. But John, I guess I'm kind of curious from your 30,000 foot view zooming out, like how the kiddos raising kiddos these days, how they doing? What do you see? What do you experience? John-Nelson Pope (11:46) Well, if they ditch these 11 parenting trends, I think they're going to do okay. Personally, that's what I think. One is this complicated chore charts. ⁓ That's like your friend Jordan, no offense to Jordan. Imagine he's a wonderful father and ⁓ just as well intended on that, but, or you can't hold the baby and you can't, you know, that you can't have a Chris (12:14) right? John-Nelson Pope (12:16) family see the baby or anything like that. And that is taking all the social construct out, all the social relationships out of it. And so, I think is that the simpler the chores are, the clearer the little kiddo is going to understand what is expected of them. if you have this complicated chore chart, it's worse than being in military school. Yeah. Chris (12:49) So you're definitely going to lose the first one. We haven't gotten to that though. I was just kind of getting a generalized idea. That's okay. My general idea is honestly, I feel like the parent-child relationship is sort of ages old. It's been something in the history of man for eons. And there's a lot of natural process that goes into that. John-Nelson Pope (12:54) I'm sorry. Chris (13:17) in that natural process, I see instinct. I really, maybe this is my in real time sort of. ⁓ landing spot or big generalization to say, you know, if you're a new parent or you're a parent of a teenager right now, like let your instincts be your instincts. We be natural with it, like relax and allow yourself to be put your stamp on parenting. It is not needing to be right or wrong. That's that's the way I'm thinking in a big. John-Nelson Pope (13:32) huh. Yes. So just trust the force. go. Let, let, let. Yeah, well, just think about it. How many generations, thousands of generations has there been a parental bond, mothers and fathers with their children for thousands of generations before ⁓ even literacy? Chris (14:01) Indeed, trust the force. John-Nelson Pope (14:24) But there were even, they even found, by the way, and it's with the urbanization of culture and society that they started to develop, being civilizations, started developing, well, we've got to write this down about parenting. And so there's all, since it literally happened or developed, writing and reading Chris (14:24) Exactly. John-Nelson Pope (14:54) there has been something that was written about how to be a good parent. The problem is, is that the more complicated you make it, the less effective it is, in my opinion. That's all I'm going to say about that. Chris (15:08) No, I love that. I love that and accept that. I think that's absolutely on point. ⁓ You said leave it to the force, and so I have to geek out for a moment. then, Neil, I'm curious what your big picture view is of this. But look at what I bought. Look at what I have. John-Nelson Pope (15:24) A lightsaber. Chris (15:27) Look at what it does! John-Nelson Pope (15:34) Oh, it's a butane lighter. Oh, man. I see it. I see it. Chris (15:38) It goes up to there! It is the world's best cigar lighter ever. Look at that right there. ⁓ my gosh. Sorry. I'm so geeky. God. I can't wait to use it. You said, you said use the force that that's where my brain went. I just got it yesterday. So, ⁓ yeah, Neil, what's your 30,000 foot view on, these kiddos, raising kiddos. John-Nelson Pope (15:50) my goodness. Nathan Geeks, go be with you. Neil (16:13) I think there's a lot of... with millennials, there's a lot of unknowns with a lot of different things. Cause I feel like they're trying to do opposite of some of the Gen X or Broomer parents. And I think they're trying to figure it out. And I think they're trying to find this balance going back. It's trying to get this balance good versus evil, what works, what doesn't work, really what's going on with human nature, what we think versus what we were taught. Like, so I think there's a lot of stuff going on. I think we're figuring it out. Cause I think there's things that were on one side earlier. And I think we went the other way really far, dramatically. And I think we're coming into the middle about, I think we're figuring things out. I think we're getting there. But there are some changes. Chris (16:51) Yeah. Yeah, just, you know, I mean, it's tough because you've lived your life if you're a younger millennial and in the information age and in the rapidly changing knowledge increasing and technology booming. And it's just, it's wild. I really don't know how people can keep up with it. I know I'm kind of. You know, not native to all this stuff and at 53 I just don't have an interest in getting good at it. you know, I did my apology with a YouTube thing. I mean, I just don't know how you get into a place where all these things are changing all around you all the time and you're not anxious. mean, parenting is an anxious, a bed of anxiety. John, I remember very clearly standing in the grocery store and I'm kind of like, look, I don't I don't know what I'm doing. I, I, I. So worried about money. I don't make a lot of money. I'm doing calculations of diapers and formula in the grocery store. And I'm like, I don't know what to do with this child, a kid. Like I'm going to be a dad. She's pregnant. my God. was freaking out. And I think that's normal. And I had one very clear thought. I almost feel like it was a God lightning moment, right? And the thought very much was like, look, John-Nelson Pope (18:09) Yeah, I moved through that. Chris (18:20) There's been a few people before you've done this. And probably if thousands upon thousands upon trillions upon trillions of people have been a parent, you're probably going to figure this out, man. It's going to be OK. If they did it, you can do it. And that was really comforting to me, honestly, in that moment. And so I would offer you if you're a new parent, like I said, going through and then we'll go through some of these some of these things here. You know, it's going to be okay. You are going to manage this. You are going to figure this out. You are not going to be perfect and that's okay. Let your instincts fly. John-Nelson Pope (18:56) Yeah, interesting. Because even in with my parents' generation, ⁓ not all parents did ⁓ as good a job. Not every parent was a good parent. And there were parents that didn't do what... And I'm making a value judgment. But, you know, the fruit of it is that overall, Chris (19:07) Good job. John-Nelson Pope (19:25) People that were attentive were more successful. Parents that were involved in their kids, but not overly involved, did a better job. ⁓ Chris (19:37) Well, there's some studies with that. think we have some science wrapped around some of this, John, because we have definitely in our time working with families and kids and such. mean, things are pretty crazy parenting things in our day, for sure. So there are some trends and some things. And then so let's get to it. Let's get to some of these trends, because there are some things that we really want to keep and there are some things that we do probably need to ditch. So as we're going through these things, I didn't give the three questions we like to give to let you think about as we go through the show. John-Nelson Pope (19:47) Right, Yeah. Chris (20:06) Are modern parenting trends helping families or creating more stress and pressure? And you've heard us talk a little bit about that. Secondly, how do parents balance expert advice with trusting their instincts? I forgot that that was one of the three questions. I did not say what I said about that, but that's awesome. And then thirdly, what actually matters most when raising emotionally healthy kids? ⁓ That's an interesting, maybe we need to John-Nelson Pope (20:22) Yeah, nice. Chris (20:35) kind of highlight that and bring us back to that guys when we're done because what actually matters most when raising emotionally healthy kids, I think that's something that we want to land on at the end. So, all right, let's get going. With this article, and you'll see the article titled, 11 Parenting Trends Millennials Are Ditching in 2026. Neil, you know I was caught off with the idea of a number followed by a title of an article. I loved that, right? You know that, right? Neil (21:04) Yeah. Nope. Chris (21:05) He very quietly said, yeah. If you're wondering what's going on right now, I hate that stuff. It drives me nuts. But this one caught my eye. First one is complicated. What's that? Neil (21:19) It seems very clickbaity for you, Chris, compared to what you... It seems very clickbaity for you. Chris (21:26) drives me nuts. Complicated chore charts. So parents are moving away from elaborate torch systems and returning to simpler expectations for helping at home. So this article was kind of funny about it. I do need to I did intend to bring it up because they have some funny explanations about it. I didn't I'm not going to go through all of them. But John and Neil, if we want to check out what they meant by it. ⁓ We can, I got the article up now, we can kind of go through it. This is a quick one, I'll just read what they say. I love a checklist of reminders for my kids, but these overly complicated chore charts? Question mark, they gotta go. They are apps, they are magnet charts, they are giant customizable dry erase boards. It's all too much, and it makes giving your kids chores and encouraging them to be part of the team at home way more overwhelming than it needs to be. Let's simplify this in 2026, can we? Weather. We use our skylight calendars or just a note on the fridge. Kids just need to know how to help out and go from there. I think that's awesome. ⁓ and, and largely true, you know, I mean, it, it gets to be just too much, on, you know, the overwhelm. John-Nelson Pope (22:44) Well, I think you're going to make anxious kids. you actually, if you have everything lined out and sketched out, the child is going to... If I were the child, I would think, well, what do have to do to please my parents or something, or my father or my mother? And if I don't do this, this and this, I'm in trouble and I fail to meet the mark. And so then their self-esteem starts to and they don't develop confidence in themselves to be able to be allowed to fail and so on and so forth. It just, one of the snowballs, you Chris (23:21) snowballs, doesn't it? Just too much. Just too much. You know, we get fancy with things because we care so much and we want to do a good job. And so we get out all of these elaborate kind of strategies. And I mean, you know, I used to used to try to downplay but talked a little bit about when when kids were struggling with their children, token societies. You remember, you remember a whole token societies, John? In a big John-Nelson Pope (23:45) huh. Yeah, good. Chris (23:48) big movement with like, you know, reward based systems and you get tokens and you have all the party thing. And if you do this, you get a token. If you do this bad thing, you get a token taken away. was like this whole award system that that group homes operate from and stuff. And I always was like, man, I'm sorry. I just can't do that shit at home with my kids all the time. I can't keep track of it. I can't keep it straight. I just, I'll bribe them with baseball cars a little bit. Okay. That's, that's, that's, that's about it. John-Nelson Pope (23:51) token channel Yeah, Chris (24:19) Which we were laughing about actually with my younger son. We talked about how if they would get up out of bed, they would get a baseball card. Anyway, so, Neil, any comments? I think we're losing this first one. We are agreement that we're we're dipping, ditching the complicated chore charts. John-Nelson Pope (24:28) Mmm. Neil (24:41) I if you have a complicated chore chart you're doing something wrong. think having very clear expectations for your kid like with ours is they had like one room they were responsible for. We'd remind them to it this weekend, whatever the thing is. But it needs to be very simple, not overwhelming. If you have a complicated chore chart, as John said, causes anxious kids. I don't know, when I do work now and I'm given a huge punch list, I'm overwhelmed as an adult. Imagine being a 10 year old kid and saying, here's your chores. It's not gonna happen. So I agree. Complicated chore charts needs to need to go clear responsibilities and follow through on the couple of things that they they're responsible for. And as they get older, they get a larger list, but it becomes one of those things where it's start by taking the trash out when they're five, mow the yard, maybe when they're 10, and then they kind of go from there. But it's a gradual buildup that you give them the responsibilities, they learn it, they manage it, you just don't throw a whole bunch on them. So it needs the complicated chore chart does need to be ditched. Chris (25:12) Mm-hmm. Gotcha. Yeah. I think we got that. I said, think we got that one in full agreement. I was just I was just kind of getting ahead of you and I was was looking at the next one, which I find kind of interesting. It's it's avoiding the word no. And I'm kind of really curious as well just about the trends. I didn't know that that was a trend. Like people were talking about we're not supposed to say no. Like, what is that? John-Nelson Pope (25:45) I was, when I, go ahead. Yeah. Neil (26:04) Mental parenting, yeah. Yep, have to give reasons. Can you hear me? Chris (26:10) Did Neil you just froze again? Uh oh. John-Nelson Pope (26:14) Yeah. Chris (26:16) There you go, you're coming back Neil, you froze again. Neil (26:17) Okay. Yeah, no, I mean that that was a trend. You don't say no and you got to give reason. You got to do all this stuff. But the idea of like I told because I said so no, that's kind of gone away. They you they expect you to treat your children like little people that like you have to rationalize things with them. But the idea of being like, well, can I do this? No, that's kind of out of the that's kind of gone to the wayside for a while. That gentle parenting idea. So yeah. That's a trend that has happened. John-Nelson Pope (26:52) I mean, maybe it's okay to say because I say so. Yeah. Neil (26:56) I think it is. Chris (26:58) You know, I'm a little bit on the edge with this one. Let me see if I can't convince you guys a little bit on the other side of this. I actually really, really like information. And I think when I think about, you know, love and logic, which is a big thing in the parenting world that I like have as a backdrop, I really want the kid to have information and then make their own decisions. So, you know, oftentimes I mean, no, don't touch the stove, you no, don't go out into the yard. I mean, of course, like, and I might even throw a hell no at you, right? Like, you know, I have no problem with that, you know, with my kids. So, but at the same time, I wonder if we miss a lot of opportunity to teach. If we just say no. What do you got? Just wing him. John-Nelson Pope (27:45) So you're not buying into Nancy Reagan who said just say no to drugs? Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Chris (27:51) Yeah, I'm saying I'm saying I don't buy that. I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that phrase. I think that was too simplistic. It didn't help me, John. It didn't do anything for me when I was a kid and she was our president. John-Nelson Pope (27:59) Okay. Well, you know, the thing is, that I think you, I think the key is why boundaries create safety for children. So ⁓ that was the second aspect to that. ⁓ healthy authority is that you would, let's say, create the milieu as a parent, as a father or mother. you are authoritative, you're not authoritarian. The difference is, authoritative is you have a wealth of knowledge and experience, and you can see further outcomes and further out than what a kid could say. And so you can give them what they're able to comprehend, but there's a point where they're not going to be able to understand it in a rational way. Yeah, do hear what I'm saying? ⁓ Chris (29:02) Yeah. I do. Yeah, I think we could get into weeds with this one a little bit in the sense that, mean, yeah, just saying no sometimes is very reasonable. I just like, I think I'm going to say ditch it, but a point five on the ditch here on this one, because I like talking, I like teaching, I like getting information to the kiddos. And you don't have to be just the, you know, they go to the shorthand and I think they want information from you, particularly when you're younger. John-Nelson Pope (29:18) Okay. Again, be authoritative but not authoritarian, I think. So give information, share it, give as much as they possibly could understand. But then you're going to have to make a decision where you're the parent and they may Chris (29:33) Yeah, that is a nice differential. John-Nelson Pope (29:55) you may want to give them as much information as possible, but they're not going to fully understand it. I'm talking about younger kiddos as opposed to teenagers. Chris (30:04) Yeah. Yeah. This next one, Neil, I did not know is a trend at all. When did we start demonizing timeouts, man? I love timeouts. What is this? Neil (30:18) I have to go back to the with my wife because my wife has a big I would say Pseudo big proponent of timeouts as long as you enforce them, but it's also needs to proportional to Like the child if they're a two-year-old you don't put them in a 30-minute timeout You put them in a two-minute timeout right and I and I think that and I I think in this case Because I'm kind of look at this and I'm just gonna say this is I feel like a lot of these are very extreme situations like everything that she's saying we need to ditch Chris (30:27) Hmm? Yeah, there's like a three minute rule per age or something like that. Neil (30:47) It's always extreme, right? I think, one, every kid's different. Timeouts can be highly effective for a kid if it really is a negative consequence to them, right? That kid who wants to be with you, put him on the stairs, time out for two minutes, and it's like you just killed his puppy. It's amazing. Now, some kids, you just look at them cross and they're like, oh, I disappoint him. And then sometimes you have to give them a spanking, right? Every kid handles things differently, but I think the biggest issue is... Chris (31:04) Absolutely. John-Nelson Pope (31:12) work. Neil (31:15) there were people who tried to only thing they did was time out. And it would be, they did the time out more for themselves to get a break and it was well above what it is. And so I think those types of time outs, that's why they were villainizing it because it's like, we isolate the kid and we're not loving them. And there's all of these things behind it. But yeah, that was not a thing that came up too. Everyone's trying to change it. Yeah, exactly. Chris (31:36) We're not loving them because we're isolating them. John-Nelson Pope (31:39) I think Chris (31:40) No! John-Nelson Pope (31:41) this hurts me worse than it hurts you. Yeah. Chris (31:43) I'm curious when he said spanking John you you you had a YouTube head jam what what happened there? John-Nelson Pope (31:51) Well, just that you have to be careful with spanking now when you talk about it. It's not. Well, you you don't want to. Yeah, you don't want people to misconstrue. That's a trigger word for some people. And yeah. Chris (31:58) Why? Why? boy. Is it? I'm gonna dip that, John. Look, I'll be very clear. think spanking can be a wonderful tool. It absolutely is. I love what you're saying, Neil. There's a lot of different tools that we use. The trouble is, is spanking really works ⁓ prior to cognition. When you can begin to do cognition, then you use information and discussing and kind of one, two, three magic and timeouts and all the other stuff. But spanking a four-year-old or a three-year-old is very effective because they're not really thinking beings quite yet. The frontal cortex is barely developed. But when they start knowing things and understanding in elementary school, yeah, we don't need to do it much. Do what? John-Nelson Pope (32:43) ⁓ I'm ⁓ gonna call DHS on you. I'm gonna call DHS on you. You know, no, I don't. We didn't spank our kiddos ⁓ very much, but to say that we didn't, that's not true either. We very sparingly did it, but... Chris (32:52) Hey man, bring them. They can have a conversation with me all day long. I have no problem with that. Right, I'm in the same boat. Absolutely. John-Nelson Pope (33:15) but we still did it when it was necessary, especially if it meant they're going to run out ⁓ in the road or they walk off by themselves. Chris (33:27) Yeah, all these people that are like, ⁓ spank your kids. mean, you look, if your kid is eight years old and you're spanking them, there's a problem probably. Like, you know, these are little kids, little litty bitty kiddos that can't think. ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (33:35) Well, you see so, yeah. Well, you see some of the moms at Kmart, or Walmart rather, and they wallop their kids in public. I have some real issues with that. Neil (33:52) Well, but that's not a spanking. When you use the term wallop, that's not a spanking. That gets to that point where it's more than just a normal thing, right? You should not be mad when you spank your kids, because then it leads to a good use. John-Nelson Pope (34:01) Yeah. Yeah. Chris (34:02) Yeah. Noooo. Say that again? John-Nelson Pope (34:07) So you should not be mad when you spank your kids. I agree with that. Chris (34:13) Neon point. John-Nelson Pope (34:14) on point, Neil. Neil (34:19) So next one is the one that I think is hilarious, is helicopter parenting. Should we did helicopter parenting? Chris (34:25) Hehehe John-Nelson Pope (34:29) They did that on The Simpsons as a cartoon a few years ago. So all these things have been parodied on The Simpsons. Chris (34:40) The symptoms are awesome. Yeah, I, you know what? I am out in the world now as actively and openly saying, freaking stop treating your children like a dot on your screen. ⁓ Talk about helicopter parenting. Yeah, this is an easy one to ditch. I think people are picking up and learning the idea, but I don't think that we've learned it near enough, Like, I am amazed with the idea of Life360. John-Nelson Pope (35:03) Mm-hmm. Chris (35:09) and using the different apps that ⁓ keep a monitor at all times on where your kid is. Now, I actually have it with my older kid now. I mean, I never look at it, ⁓ you know, but it's convenient. Like when he's coming in town, I've enjoyed that. But it's a neat, neat thing to see. This is a little dot where Aaron is at in the state that he's currently at. Like, wow, that's kind of cool. But I... Lose it it It's not helpful. It's it's fully helicopter parenting and it does nothing but make you anxious and anxious and you get a dopamine hit Every time you're wondering where your kid is you check it you feel that calms you down, but it doesn't last But what five minutes on prom night if you're checking where your kid is 20 times what? Stop stop John stop Neil (36:05) Speaking of that, Luke's prom is this Saturday, by the way. So we'll see how this goes. Chris (36:10) Right? How's that working out? John-Nelson Pope (36:11) Okay, can I tell you that when I was raised, they said, you get up early in the morning on Saturday morning, watch a little bit of TV, have some cereal, go out and play for the rest of the day and don't come back in except for lunch. Make it yourself and then you come back late in the evening and when the lights come on. And so in the summertime, that would be nine o'clock. and Chris (36:43) You're literally thought of as a bad parent now. ⁓ I don't understand it. I'm total ditched this one, Neil. I am more than ditched this one. am like, way, bury it six feet under, please. John-Nelson Pope (36:56) Well, and we have so much information that we think every kid is at risk. Yeah, hypothetically, they are, but the great majority of people aren't. And I know this is terrible, but ⁓ most people are safe. Chris (37:15) We have a myth of creating safety with this information, John. The more information we have, the more safe we are. It's nonsense. This is nonsense. Yeah, mostly people are safe all the time. Yeah, we live in a, yeah, I don't know. I could go off on this for a while. Save me, Neil. Save me. John-Nelson Pope (37:21) Yeah. Neil (37:34) I think it goes back to the same thing. have to, there's things where you can be smart about giving your kids room to do it. You can watch out for them, but you don't have, they don't have to know it. To me, the biggest thing is if I have Life360 on my kids' phone. I wouldn't tell them it so that they know what's going on, but it's also like if my kid walks to the neighbors, I might watch from my window to make sure they make it, but I'm not gonna be there and be right behind them, right? As our parents, we are to protect them, but we also need to give them room to grow. So, and my idea with a lot of it is you can kind of be farther away just for your peace of mind, but for the most part, your judgment to say most things like you said, Chris, 99.9999%, they're gonna be safe. Let them live their life. Let them have fun. Let them be somewhere. And I was on my bike and went over it, messed my knee up, broke my bike. I had to figure out a pay phone, call my mom to come take care of me. Like, it happens. Things go through. But, and I'm fine, I think. That twitch went away, finally. No, absolutely not. It was a mountain bike. John-Nelson Pope (38:34) So, was it a banana bike? Chris (38:39) banana bike. Yeah, I just John-Nelson Pope (38:41) That would have been Chris's generation has been Antibikes or my generation. Chris (38:46) I feel I love them, John. think they're cool. had the little streamers on the side of my banana seed. But no, the thing is, you know, we want to create safety. We want to protect. And I think that we live too much vicariously through the children. And as you say, Neil, we suffocate their ability to have their own experiences. And that happens when they're older, too, you know? I mean, I know we want to go see the grandkid, but you know what? They need to have their space and time to engage themselves in their own parenting way. just had a longer relationship with somebody who was really struggling with that. He struggled with ⁓ their parents being in the home so much that they just didn't have an ability to develop any of their own culture until they finally left. You want to be protective. You want to be available. You want to be a good parent, but that sometimes means leave them the heck alone. Leave them alone. So yeah, without, without further ado, we're, losing this one, right? Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (39:55) Yeah. Neil (39:55) huh. John-Nelson Pope (39:56) Great. Help the window. Chris (39:59) I didn't know that making kids' bedrooms was trendy. What is this one, man? Did you guys know this was a trend? John-Nelson Pope (40:11) I suspect it was because I just ⁓ heard about Clavicle. Have you heard of him? He's a guy that does extreme manscaping or whatever and ⁓ I guess, yeah, beautifying himself, making him, you know, doing ⁓ plastic surgery and he streams his entire life on Instagram. Chris (40:18) Mm-mm. Haircut? Whatever. John-Nelson Pope (40:38) and ⁓ he's got 30,000 followers or something like that. ⁓ he overdosed taking drugs because he said, I couldn't take it anymore ⁓ because ⁓ my life was always on display. And yet he was one of the people that were purporting, well, you have to follow this trend. He was trying to be an influencer. And his name was Clavicle. And ⁓ I don't know what his real name is. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, it is. And so I could see how a parent would say, want my kid's room to look like something that would be ⁓ in ⁓ architectural digest or something of that sort, or, you know, it's up trendy and they have all the toys and all the... And it's more about the parent than it is about Chris (41:07) That's terrible. That's terrible. John-Nelson Pope (41:36) the kids and allowing the kid to express his or her own personality. Chris (41:42) thought this was a really funny one. I want to give her her due, this author, and read it for you. Making kids' bedrooms trendy. So if your child actually wants a gray bedroom with gold accents and bows everywhere, then fine, go for it. But I'm so exhausted by this parenting trend of our turning our kids' bedrooms into two-page spreads for a decor magazine. What happened to kids using stickers on the back of their doors and filling their bookshelves with their own random treasures? 2026 should be the year you let your kids tape a poster to their wall, the year you let them choose the ugliest lamp you've ever seen for their bedside table, and the year you let them make their own spaces completely and 100 % their own. I'm like, heck yeah, man. John-Nelson Pope (42:26) My daughter, my oldest creative daughter, she put, ⁓ what is it the stars that it Chris (42:35) absolutely, on the magnets on the... Yeah. Neil (42:37) No, we have that with our kid too. We have the same thing. You put the stars up above the bed and yeah. John-Nelson Pope (42:42) They loved it. She loved it. Neil (42:46) I think there's something to be said for two things. There's one, social media. Obviously, everyone wants to be presentable. But there's also the idea as a homeowner, your home is an investment, so you want to look at it from a resale value and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you forget that you need to live your life in your house. We have Lego strips on her hallway that, well, we've torn the drywall, which aren't ready to fix still. But the idea is, our house is to be lived in. our house and this kind of goes to the next one too. But yeah, that's the kitchen being kids. And I think there was something along and I think it might be Chris kind of your generation or maybe a little bit older that there was that weird idea that the moms had certain standards that they expected. Kids had to have it the certain way because it even goes into the next, the next ditch thing about the whole house, right? There's a whole thing that they prim and proper and everything has to be perfect. And there's these high expectations, right? All the magazines were like, here's what you should do as a mom or a family. And then Chris (43:35) yeah. you Neil (43:43) I think honestly, think it might be partially your generation, Chris, is the problem. I mean. Chris (43:48) I absolutely received that Neil. I think you're 100 % right. As a matter of fact, I always quote him, man, this dude just struck me between the eyes, John. When a client looked at me, he was solidly middle millennial and he looked at me he's like, Chris, you know, you gotta understand when we as kids and whatever, and you as well as our parents and stuff, I just wanted to play soccer. That's all I wanted to do. And he said, you guys gave us those type, those trophies. You were the ones that gave us that. John-Nelson Pope (44:14) participation trophies. Chris (44:16) And John, was literally on the stage with high five sports handing those trophies out. I felt so convicted. I really did. No, you're right. We started a lot of these trends. ⁓ I think you boomers, John, messed us up and we in turn messed the next up and the millennials. That's why I have faith in this and not the millennials as much the ⁓ Gen Z. I think Gen Z is saving us our world. I've said that before. John-Nelson Pope (44:22) that are sitting on. Yeah. Well, I think they're kind of resembling people from the Depression era or World War II ⁓ more. Chris (44:49) Hmm It's funny how those things do play out and you know, yeah this next one hiding our kids lives in our house That is a trend ⁓ You know the perfect aesthetic home the Everything's got to look right do right. I think there's a lot of similarities with that one I think we we all agree we've got to lose it right like why why do we need to be perfect? Let's you know, it's It's it's a FOMO generation. You got to look like the TikTok magazine article or the whatever. You know, you got to act right, be right, look right. It's so much pressure. Lose it. John-Nelson Pope (45:23) If your house is not a disaster area sometime, then you're not interacting with your kids and they're not interacting with you and they don't live there. They're just passing through. They're guests. They're not. It's not, there's no ownership. Yeah. Chris (45:33) Right. Right there. Do you see that behind the microphone? That picture right there. It's literally got a BB gun hole in the glass and I leave it there on purpose because I think it's awesome too. I think it's awesome. I was probably really pissed off when it happened, but now it's like, John, that picture will forever in my life have a BB hole in Aaron's picture there. John-Nelson Pope (45:45) huh. Yeah. And Jeff. So tell us the story about that. Chris (46:09) Really know the story a hole just showed up John they had a BB gun and I had various things happening with a BB gun So I later got confirmed in life. Yes, it was indeed the BB gun It happens I also have a mirror shot out on my Jeep that I haven't fixed either and that was a BB gun event Yeah, if you're a parent you can't have nice things it's just that's like it's okay, okay John-Nelson Pope (46:13) huh. my goodness. ⁓ Chris (46:37) So we're losing that one, right? John-Nelson Pope (46:39) Yeah, we're losing that one. Neil (46:39) I think so. Chris (46:43) Over planning play dates and gatherings. I do think this was a trend ⁓ where people were kind of really getting into like the whole idea of, you know, planning and getting together and, you know, having things set up and in a controlled environment. mean, all of these birthday parties, you know, with the ⁓ skating rink and the movie theater. Neil (47:06) Well hang on, don't bring your birthday parties yet. That's gonna be like three things down here, so let's not talk about birthday parties yet. Yeah. Chris (47:12) really, sorry. Thank you. Thank you for saving me. Yeah, because we could blast that one. We could blast that one pretty good. You know, it's unstructured, Do human beings have any ability with AI in our face to be creative anymore? John-Nelson Pope (47:30) Yeah. Well, yeah, well, you know, I was thinking because as I was writing my dad's ⁓ funeral service, actually, and I was I was getting worried and anxious about the time and I said, I'm just going to put some information in for AI. And I'm going. No, it just absolutely not. Chris (47:33) You know? John-Nelson Pope (47:59) ⁓ If we rely on AI for everything or stuff, there's no authenticity, there's no soleness there. And so if you over plan a playdate, transitioning over here and for gathering, there's no room for that spontaneity, that creativity, that time where you just get together with some friends and you know, you have a cookout or something, but you don't have to have everything all with all the balloons and streamers or anything like that. Just do it. Chris (48:37) Yeah. Yeah, it's, don't know. What are you thinking, Neil? Did you do play dates? Did you set things up or let your kids go figure it out? Neil (48:47) We'd have friends that we'd invite over we'd go over there or we'd go meet places, but it was always just hey We'll figure it out when we get there and I think I think that's the biggest thing like we don't need to do a big ordeal For a lot of the stuff I think that and I think that's when it when when those play dates become more about the parents and what they're gonna do that it is about the kids and I think that's the biggest thing she's kind of talking about is that is like it's a parent itinerary itinerary not a kid itinerary because kids Chris (49:12) Yeah. Neil (49:14) They come here and they go to the playroom or they go to the bedroom and they just go play or they go outside, right? They don't, they don't, right? They don't do anything. And so it's just, yeah, I think people just, they don't. And I feel with all the social anxiety we have as a younger generation, sometimes it's nice just to go with no expectations. And I think that's why they're ditching it because people just want to go and just, let's do a barbecue. You bring one side if you can and that's it. Boom, hang out, chill, know, whatever you need to do. John-Nelson Pope (49:19) They want a They want to play in the box. Chris (49:43) Just to highlight a little bit more, Neil, you're really right. From a therapy perspective, I really feel like expectations crush a lot of things. It just creates so much pressure, so much performance anxiety, so much terrible strain. a real example is the speed dating event thing that I went at forever a while ago. John, yeah, man. I went in and I was like, you know what? I am not, I'm not having any expectations here. If I meet somebody great, if I don't great, like I'm not kind of going in there with the mindset because my mind was going into it. It was going deep and like, what do I wear? What do I say? How do I do? Is my haircut right? Like all this crazy stuff. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, like stop. And, and when you come across something like parenting where you care so much about the wellbeing of your kid and you know, and you're doing all of the stuff to try to, you know, make everything right and do everything, you know, prim and proper and all. You just, lose spontaneity, but I think you create crazy expectations and don't do that. John-Nelson Pope (50:50) Yeah. Neil (50:51) I'm just going to throw this out there. They need speed dating to find friends. no nothing is just a bunch of guys in a room, a of girls in a room. They just talk, and all they do is like, you talk to this guy, come up with some silly topic, see if you click, and just make it for friends. Because you went through that where you're doing the friendships, right? But once again, I think that'd be kind of a cool thing, speed dating for friends versus actually trying to get a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever. Chris (50:56) ⁓ absolutely. 100 % Neil (51:20) for friendship would be fantastic. So. Chris (51:22) And honestly, I'm talking about same gender. Stay with the same gender. We're speed dating dudes for friendship. Nothing but guys for me, Neil (51:25) Yeah, exactly, right? Right, it's happening with women, right? You don't have any pre- John-Nelson Pope (51:30) Because all we're gonna say is, we're here to regret. Yeah. Chris (51:34) Mmm. What you saying John? Mmm. we're gonna have conversation on speed dating with dudes to make friendships. No, I agree with you Neil. Let's move on. Doing everything for our kids. I think that has been solidly kind of defeated, right? I mean, it's ⁓ is there much that we want to say on that one? I mean, snowplow parenting is what we call it. John-Nelson Pope (51:48) man. Yeah. Well, they did one on the Simpsons. Okay. The Simpsons already did it. So. Neil (52:01) Just stop it. Just, yep. Chris (52:05) we go with the Simpsons again. Neil (52:08) But yeah, just stop doing everything for your kids. You know, I hear the horror stories of the mom that goes to the job interview with their 20 year old kid, or you know, the kids who get into college because the dad talked to the dean, or you know, I recently saw the kids who have trouble at school and they somehow smooth it out. Like, just stop it. Let your kids do it themselves, you know? Like she said, give them their homework, give them their plate. figure it out. John-Nelson Pope (52:35) Okay, all right. Back in the day when there was the draft, my number, I drew 69. They drafted up to 100. They drafted my number and I had to go down to Miami. And my mom, I saw my mom and dad, I got out of the car and Sergeant Kerner, I remember this guy, he was recruiting, he said, Pope, it's not too late. Chris (52:37) Alright. John-Nelson Pope (53:02) you can sign up and you don't have to go to Vietnam. And ⁓ I just thought I was going to take my chances. I was looking at mom and dad and they were crying. dad wasn't, but mom was. And you know what? I think that was good for me. It was good for me. They couldn't save me. They couldn't get me out of that mess. And you know, the thing was it was an adventure and I came out of it okay. I think most kids, if they don't have some failures or difficult times or struggles, they're not going to build character, they're not going to build resilience. Chris (53:49) me give you the other side of that too though, that so you don't feel crashed at, crashed on listening to this. It's hard. You do fall into some natural traps, by wanting to rescue. My older kid did great with jobs and interviewing and all that kind of stuff. kind of, you know, coached him up a little bit and gave him some information and he ran with it. It's very different, but listen to where I'm going. Because number two kid, I just got convicted. John-Nelson Pope (54:12) That's different. Chris (54:19) on this show a little bit, listen to you guys, because he was struggling. He did, had anxiety probably a little bit, whatever, and he was struggling, man. And the thing is, he needed, so I just kind of set up a conversation and went to the fish camp and asked for the owner guy and said, hey, this is the thing, he's the, you know, hey, and I chatted him up a little bit and then I tried to walk out the room, whatever, and maybe Adam had a conversation with him. My son looked at me, he's like, dad, don't do that. He said, cause he was managing at the time at the, at the car wash. He's like, dad, we make fun of people that do that stuff. Don't do that. Right. So I was convicted. just, you know, you, you fall into traps, man. You're not going to be perfect. And we're just trying to do our best. That's kind of the main point. John-Nelson Pope (54:59) Do that. Yeah. Neil (55:10) And the thing to keep in mind too, if you feel like you have to step in for your kids, they're never gonna learn that they can make it through the challenges. And that's gonna be more detrimental than anything else. They need to learn that they can manage it, they can figure it out, they can make it past it. So if you step in to do that, you better be prepared to step in a lot and then your kid's never gonna leave the house. So I would say give them a chance to grow and blossom into something by making it through the challenges and overcoming things and having that pride that they did something. My kids went and they filled out their applications and they got their jobs and they did that. I didn't go talk to the managers. I didn't go do that. I wasn't and it's great for them, right? So that is super important. So just keep that in mind is if you are convicted saying, hey, I really want to help my kids because they're not great at this, this or this. Coach them at home. Help them do it and then guide them if they if they don't make it. Talk to them, help them figure it out, but don't do it for them. We need to ditch that, don't do it for them. They'll do it themselves, they'll figure it out, but you still have to kind of be the kind of proud of them, but don't do it for them, right? Chris (56:22) We all agree, I agree with that man. This next one, over the top birthday parties. my gosh, my gosh, this is a total ditch. I think we've already alluded it earlier in the prom, in the structured things, ⁓ the prepared whatevers. I have always, let me tell you something. I felt so much pressure as a parent with this stuff. I really did. It was like, I'm not a creative person when comes to these types of things. I mean, I have people having. John-Nelson Pope (56:31) Thank Chris (56:49) whole superheroes like they had the they had the hall of justice John the hall of justice and people were coming in dressed up as their superhero or whatever I'm like I can't compete with that I got no shot what am I gonna do? John-Nelson Pope (57:04) No, I don't think I ever had a birthday party except for a cake and that was fried chicken. That was it. That was okay. I got to eat fried chicken. I love that. So that was. Chris (57:15) Yeah. I'm aware of the time. Let's move on. We're losing that one. I'm just authorizing that that that ditch buy more ⁓ parenting guides that promise solutions I Don't know what do you guys think here? I'm a little bit kind of this is another one of the point fives I think honestly one of the things I did very first thing becoming a parent was getting a developmental book and reading some things and I think that really helped me so I Don't I don't friend flat-out want to ditch this one Although, as you said before, Neil, I mean, she goes into extremes with people doing all this kind of stuff. Read, learn. That's my point. Neil (57:59) I think the biggest part to that is that if you go into buying a guide thinking that's gonna solve all your problems, that's the problem. Because having experience learning, like you guys from your therapy, I mean, you guys go through continuing education about the dynamics of finding new things that are good versus bad, how to deal with your patients and clients. It's always adjusting. And as you learn, you find out how to adapt. So I would say buying parent guides, John-Nelson Pope (57:59) Yeah. Neil (58:27) is good but thinking they're gonna solve all your problems is bad. John-Nelson Pope (58:31) Okay, does the other thing is be discerning when you buy a parenting guide. So in other words, books, because if you get something from ⁓ Gwyneth Paltrow, what is her company or something from the wellness company, I would look at it very skeptic. I would do it with a ⁓ jaundiced eye. But if you get something that is, let's say, evidence-based or something that ⁓ is very practical. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. I think it'd be good to be helpful. Chris (59:10) Yeah, as a matter of fact, here's my plug. know, anytime I talk about parenting, I always like to point out the love and logic material because I find it to be really the most helpful thing. I call it part of the trifecta. Things that I really rely on and lean on. Emotion focused therapy, financial peace, university for finances and relationships. And then this parenting thing is really best served by love and logic. And there's other things similar to it. you look up some of their books, man. I was at a conference locked on and they I learned so much just in my own personal life as a parent when I got introduced to this and my kids were pushing teenagers or were in the teenage years at the time. It was about 10 years ago probably, something like that. Anyway, they gave me a book that was, you know, so you're parenting your teenager or something like that. They had a lot of material out. And I would kind of look at different specific situations and look at their dialogues and kind of get thoughts and figures from it and kind of help me create my own style in my own way. Yeah, I agree. John-Nelson Pope (1:00:10) So it was you, were internalizing the material and you were adapting it to what your kids needs were. Yeah. Chris (1:00:16) Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because the fundamentals are there, you know, it's a it's it's not a punitive. It's you know, it's a a relationship based kind of thing. It's something that you you ⁓ I remember it being teach, teach, teach. It's all about teaching your kids and I, you know, teaching life lessons in unique ways. So I love and logic is a great thing to go. So I'm actually on the not ditch thing on this one. Is that OK? John-Nelson Pope (1:00:42) Yeah, I'm on the not ditch, but use discernment. Chris (1:00:47) Use great discernment for sure. then 11, ignoring parental instincts. Trust yourself, Trust yourself. You have built in wiring. You have built in framework. You have built in understandings of what you are supposed to be and do naturally with parenting. And I think people are afraid. to trust themselves. And that leads to fear of trusting your children. And that's a huge problem. Huge problem. John-Nelson Pope (1:01:29) I think it's important also to invest in your own self-discovery because let's say you were parented by someone who was neglectful or you were a latch-key kid or, ⁓ well, that would be more your generation, Chris, but maybe you weren't given hugs or the love or the listening and the patience. Then you might have to discern and figure out ⁓ those areas of growth. But also, ⁓ then be able to then use those instincts that said, you well, what is wrong with, let's say, being permissive in this case with my son or my daughter? ⁓ why do I, you know, you might have some sort of of your some trepidation about allowing them to just have a sleepover, for example, go to someone's house for the first time. And you might have to deal with your own stuff about saying, well, I didn't have a good experience back then and being able to, to, but they'll the kids will need to have that experience so that they can start seeing the world and start experiencing the world. So I don't know, just I think trust the force. That's, yeah. Yes. Chris (1:03:01) trust the force. Yeah, I love that thing. Best cigar lighter ever. Okay, we're gonna do a section before we run out of time today. We don't wanna run too long with this, where we do practical questions to you. John, I'm gonna take number two. You can take whichever one you want. This is a little segment where we just speak to you through the screens, because as though we're not your therapist, we're not delivering therapy service to you, but we want you to really begin thinking about like, What are these things that you're doing? And so my question to you listening is, as I have given the example of being in the interview with my kid, what are some things that you're doing that your kid can do for themselves? They feel like so helpless, it's easy to get caught into that trap. And we all do it. So I'm not asking if, I'm asking you to really think, right? What are things that you're doing for them that they really can do for themselves that stunts their growth that stunts their their experimentation that stunts their problem solving in a lot of ways and we do it in a lot of ways. So our job can be be getting out of the way a whole lot more. So think about that. I'm curious ma'am. I'm curious sir. What what are something that you are doing for your kids that they actually can do for themselves. John what's your practical question sir. John-Nelson Pope (1:04:29) Well, do I allow my child to experience consequences that helped them grow? And so in other words, that means letting go. And sometimes you may have some, ⁓ or ma'am, you might have a ⁓ sense of you don't want your kiddos to... to experience something that happened to you when you felt like you were growing up. And so you don't want them to experience that same thing. But in order for your child to fully express and to become themselves and become fully human ⁓ and becoming more the person that they need to be or their natural bent of growth, that it means sometimes having to cut some of those strings and saying, I can't control the outcome because this will make my child stronger. If they fail or when they fail, they surely will. You can also say that they can come and know that they are fully accepted, that they're fully loved by you, and that's not going to ever change. And that that they can be strengthened therefore to go out more and to experience life to the fullest, to become fully functional in their lives. Chris (1:06:02) Thank you, John. Look, guys, that is sort of a glimpse into a real therapy session. That is what we do. ⁓ There is a reason why we have the title and I love the section, Practical Questions to Let You Think, to Let You Know. We're wrapping up on the shrink wrap-up though. John, we're going head to head, man. We're going head to head. John-Nelson Pope (1:06:03) Thank you. Okay, well, don't you think we ought to have Neil do something there too or not? I'm joking. I'm joking. Yeah. I've got to ask my mom if it's okay if I can do the shrink. I've got to go ask mom. Yeah. ⁓ Chris (1:06:39) you do? You got to make sure your mom's okay with it? You go ahead and you ask your mama and I'll go ahead and do this. So this is a wrap up segment where we kind of have a friendly competition. We kind of summarize the show. Neil gets to decide who wins for the week, winning pride and loan, and he keeps track of it for the end of the year. So we'll see how we're doing at the end of 2026. So John, we're head to head today. My shrink wrap up is this. Look, we live in a wild time. We live in a time where you're overrun, overwhelmed, and have way too much information. Science is great. Instincts, I think, are even better. So parenting is such an involved relationship. There is no other relationship like it. You are literally responsible, if you think about it, until a kid is 18, at least in the States and around the world, that might be different. You're responsible for them, and you're supposed to control them. But it is not a relationship that you can control. You cannot control another human being. So you're already set up to do something impossible. And I want you to realize that you don't have to do the impossible. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to look right, act right, do it the right way. There is no right way. Every situation that is a parent-child relationship is unique and to the one that you create with your child. Love them, care for them, be with them. Support them, encourage them, do all the cool words, but relax into that relationship and enjoy the space, the sanctity, the cool development between you and that individual child, whether you have eight children or one child. That is fine. Like release the tensions, release the anxiety, and enjoy teaching your child what they need, which is life lessons. John, what you got, bro? John-Nelson Pope (1:08:34) I think in terms of parenting is because I'm reflecting on what was my own experience or Joy's experience with raising our kids and certainly wasn't perfect and there were bumps in the road. And sometimes you want to say you wanted to do I've mentioned the symptoms a million times, but do like Homer and strangle your kids and all of that. It's okay. you don't act on it, but it's one thing that you can do if you fail and you, let's say you give them too much rope and they fail and they hurt and they get hurt and you hurt for them, you don't want them to have to experience that. But in order for them to live the most ⁓ full life that they could and not live timidly but live boldly, you have to have those failures that happen, that you go with this in terms of a challenge, not as a task, but as an adventure, and that your kids and that your spouse and as a family, you're all going into this and ⁓ on this adventure and on this journey. And as Chris has said before, every family has a different task and a different way of doing it. But if you are going to do it, do it in a way that brings joy and light into your children's lives and you prepare them to live boldly into the future and into their lives. Chris (1:10:20) Nicely done. Neil, what you got man? Who's the victor between the head up? John and Chris. Neil (1:10:28) I'm going to have to say between the two of you guys, one, everyone should listen to both of you guys because you both had amazing points to do. this week I think I'm going to give it to John. He wrapped it up very greatly. think the idea of telling your kids to go out boldly I think is a great thing to end on. So I'm going to give it to John today. Good job, John. That was a great wrap up. John-Nelson Pope (1:10:50) Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Chris (1:10:52) Good stuff. Good stuff. That is a shrink wrap up. This is the Through a Therapist Eyes podcast. a friend, help us grow, help us help them so that we can all figure this stuff out together. All right, stay well and we'll see you next week. Take care. John-Nelson Pope (1:11:05) Thank