This month we take a hard, compassionate look at three critical conversations — Episode 347 explores male sexual abuse and sex trafficking, the unique PTSD presentations in men, first-responder trauma contexts, and what real recovery (naming, shame reduction, trauma-informed therapy, bodily safety, and relational repair) looks like; Episode 348 examines what “peace” means in mental health and suicide recovery, offering a three-level model (external, emotional, existential) and why “peace at all costs” fails; Episode 349 shares therapists’ go-to tools for emotional distress (grounding, cognitive reframing, pause + choice, resiliency-building and self-care). We also touch on the recent social media court case shaping public mental health conversations.
Tune in to see the March Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.This month we take a hard, compassionate look at three critical conversations — Episode 347 explores male sexual abuse and sex trafficking, the unique PTSD presentations in men, first-responder trauma contexts, and what real recovery (naming, shame reduction, trauma-informed therapy, bodily safety, and relational repair) looks like; Episode 348 examines what “peace” means in mental health and suicide recovery, offering a three-level model (external, emotional, existential) and why “peace at all costs” fails; Episode 349 shares therapists’ go-to tools for emotional distress (grounding, cognitive reframing, pause + choice, resiliency-building and self-care). We also touch on the recent social media court case shaping public mental health conversations.
Tune in to see the March Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.npr.org/2026/03/25/nx-s1-5746125/meta-youtube-social-media-trial-verdict
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/monthinreview
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
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Episode #350 Transcription
Chris (00:02) Hello and welcome to yet another edition of Through a Therapist's Eyes. Guys, you have landed on the 350th episode. How about that? 350th episode here on March the 26th of 2026. We've got a lot going on. So we're gonna do the March month in review for you today, talking about the shows at the end of the month. We do that, that we did for the month. And ⁓ we finished up. the heavy hard topics. I actually got some feedback from some people, Neil, that like those shows that we did, like somebody watched the ⁓ emotional neglect show last month and they were like, man, that was their first show they watched. And they were like, that was heavy. Neil (00:49) Well, I the funny part when you brought, think maybe Kyle brought up like with February and all that, you're like, let's do all this like the month of love and let's talk about neglect and abuse and it was great. Chris (01:00) I know, it worked out, it worked out. So we are going to be finishing up the review of the episode 347, Male Sexual Abuse, Sex Trafficking, PTSD, The Recovery Component. And then 348 was Finding Peace in Mental Health, which was really a cool concept. I learned a lot delivering that and seeing the concept of peace in a different way. And then... Episode 349 was Therapists Go To Tools, where all of us came back together again, talking about for emotional distress with the panel. We have had Victoria, Casey, John and I as our normal panel. And we've kind of been having a lot of weird shows lately and we're going to have another weird one where they're not all involved next week. But it was a good month of shows. This is through Therapist Eyes where you get information and we blow up stereotypes and myths about the mental health, knowing this is not the delivery of therapy services in any way. Look. We are therapists, clinical therapists, licensed, doing real clinical work every day. And this is where we talk about, honestly, about what actually helps. ⁓ What else? My phone, as my phone goes off. Thanks, Neil, that was you. He went offline. Now he's trying to get back online. I guess, I guess Neil dropped. Kyle, what are we gonna do? Kyle (02:17) ⁓ I guess me and you just have to handle it till he gets back on. I mean, we can do that. I think we can do it. Chris (02:20) You think we can handle it? The internet gods just knocked him off. So listen, we do this at about 6.15. We do a YouTube live where we come on live and on YouTube you can kind of interact with us. We also like you to interact on contact through withtherapistize.com. we haven't had a new YouTube subscriber in a couple of few weeks, man. That's come on now. Y'all gotta tell somebody. It really makes a big difference if you. Share an episode particularly with somebody they'll be more likely to check it out and then you can help us get these information pieces To more people because we really believe that mental health is one of the most important things in today's day and age and becoming more important So run Spotify Apple Apple podcast all that kind of stuff ⁓ I like to say that this is the human emotional experience, which we endeavor to figure out together So we have Kyle that comes and hangs out with us on the month in review Welcome, sir. Kyle (03:21) Thank you for having me. Always enjoy being here. Chris (03:24) You know, I usually ask the guys how the week went. I guess for you, I'm going to ask how your month's Yeah. Kyle (03:29) Month has gone good. It's been busy, but it's gone good. It's just been one thing after another lately. Chris (03:33) Yeah. Well, welcome to you on the magical first day of Pittsburgh Pirate Baseball. are, ⁓ yeah, we got baseball season firing up. How about that? Kyle (03:41) Oh-ho! There you go. It's hard to believe. I mean, that's one of my favorite times of the year, just with the spring, the leaves coming back out, the flowers blooming. Yeah, I'll never think of flowers blooming differently than the last episode, right? ⁓ Chris (03:59) Yeah, boy. That's he's referring to is our, our guest, Dr. Kyle King talked about, ⁓ my gosh. It was, was it, what did I say? ⁓ Kyle King. Yeah. Not to be confused, man. He went through a lot. He went through a lot of stuff. ⁓ Dr. John King. Yeah. He, he was at tulips. I think it was tulips. Kyle (04:16) Let's try it. think it was. Yeah. Chris (04:25) Yeah, he's talking about how he saw these ⁓ grove of tulips that just absolutely changed his life, tracking how many years he was surviving post his sexual trauma. We'll talk about that show and the recovery aspects that we talked about it with him. I guess I would love for Neil, hopefully, to make it back into us for the Down the Rabbit Hole. ⁓ On the end of the month, we go Down the Rabbit Hole with Kyle King, not to be confused with John King. And it's some sort of mental health related type thing that he found and he sees. we, kind of chat about it and see what kind of therapist brain stuff I come up with as it relates to whatever topic he comes up with. But before we go to that, hopefully Neil will be able to return. And, uh, I wanted to talk about a current event, Kyle. We, we cover current events on this show and man, what an interesting. Groundbreaking case that relates. to what I believe is the biggest challenge that humanity has faced in the history of humanity, not being technology, but the rapid pace of technological change. has taken the world by storm, is not giving it credit in the last 10, 15, really 20 years, right? That is a light speed change system that we've had with phones, the internet, everything kind of going on that the world has never seen before. So this was an interesting case. Did you see this going on, Kyle? Have you heard of this before? Kyle (06:00) No, I'm not sure exactly what you're speaking of, Chris (06:03) Really? Okay, well, ⁓ there's lots of articles out about it. I just pulled one to kind of get an idea of what happened. And the link's in the show notes. Which by the way, ⁓ I've been talking about this a little lately because I want people to understand. I've been kind of putting a lot of work, Kyle, into the posting, the publishing of the show. I I'm spending a little bit more time trying to get good links for people. We have links on the same type of topics throughout the previous... years really that we've been doing this to kind of link you up with articles and previous shows and things that will be helpful. So if you like the topic and you hear it, you know, I'm spending time on our website to link up with some other things. So please check that out through atherapistize.com. This was wild, man. So this was just an NPR article. The title is jury finds meta and Google negligent in social media harms trial. Have you ever seen that car? Kyle (07:05) Actually, I did read about that. Yes. Chris (07:06) Okay, yeah. Yeah, this is in your world. Kyle does his real day job, you know, with all the technology stuff with computers and security and stuff. quoting from the article, a California jury on Wednesday found that Metta and Google were to blame for the depression and anxiety of a woman compulsively used social media as a small child, warning her six big, big millions in a rare verdict holding Silicon Valley. Just by the way, Kyle, I'm quoting the article and they didn't say big, big millions. Kyle (07:10) Yeah. Chris (07:35) I'm gonna point that out. But it was six million in a verdict holding Silicon Valley accountable for its role in fueling the youth mental health crisis. The jurors concluded, it was a jury trial that Medit and Google should pay the woman three each. ⁓ then while this little financial punishment is miniscule for companies that have trillions of dollars, it's so consequential. This article says quote, Kyle (08:00) it is. Chris (08:01) It represents the first time a jury has found that social media apps should be treated as defective products for being engineered to exploit the development brains of kids and teenagers. So yeah, this is a, I wouldn't call it like a landmark case, like the tobacco things of the past, but it, but it rings a similar tone to what we all kind of know has been causing trouble in one way or some form or another. the technology reality. What do you take from that? What did you read? What do you see? Kyle (08:33) Absolutely. So here it comes now. Chris (08:37) Hey, Neil's back just in time to talk about the article. I hope you checked it out while you were away, Neil. Kyle (08:44) No, it is definitely, but you think about several years ago where ⁓ Facebook got pulled into court cases for supplying ⁓ false information during election campaigns and things like that. And I think it kind of is following suit. They're looking at every angle for some type of misinformation to be spread to help that for a child. They're so prone to... Neil (08:44) Sorry guys. Chris (09:05) yeah. Kyle (09:13) you know, under, you know, taking a look at something and saying, that's the source of truth, I'm going to believe that, you know, whether it's being created by AI, whether it's been created by some ⁓ influencer, you know, they're looking at that as that source of truth. Now, how is that social media company being able to determine what's, you know, what's actually deemed truth or not true? You know, they have to have, they need, they should or should consider controls to be putting that in place. However, with that said, I also say that you gotta put some onus on the parents to control some of that screen time, but you also have to, but also to understand what their kids are doing. know, at what age did that individual get that access to that Facebook or Instagram, right? You know. Chris (09:56) That drives me nuts. Kyle (10:11) what age is too young? What age should they be getting that access? Chris (10:15) I wasn't a bad parent, Kyle. Kyle (10:18) But you kind of catch my drift. It's like we need to understand what our kids are doing, what they're seeing. Be able to have those conversations, in my opinion, and say, this is fact, this is fiction. No, these guys are not telling you the truth. Chris (10:35) a couple things that drives me nuts about this ⁓ current event. ⁓ One, I'm really glad, bottom line, that it's happening because we need to have some accountability for what's going on. But what drives me crazy for sure, I'm sure everyone knows, the way that I use the word addiction is clinical in nature and it gets thrown around. So this is kind of an addictions case. Big air quotes if you're listening to this on one of the audio only versions. Air quotes galore because addiction is very different in a lot of ways in the way that I see it clinically. But nevertheless, it drives me madly insane is not quite what you were saying. I don't totally disagree with anything you said, Kyle, but this is affecting you, ma'am. Listening to the show, you, sir. Listening to the show us, Kyle, because we're adults doesn't mean that we're not affected by these things. And, you know, it would be harder to get a lawsuit. for a fully developed brain engaging these things, but you know as well as I do as screws with our brains just as much, they're developing? Yeah. Kyle (11:38) Oh, absolutely. 100%. Yeah. And look, I mean, you know, I've seen people in public, know, when the Israel stuff was going on with Hamas and Gaza Strip, I've seen people, you know, quoting things that are actually not factual in public, you know, take it for somebody that's been over there three different times. I've stood 500 yards from the Gaza Strip. Chris (12:00) you. Kyle (12:07) And I've been around those people many, many times. And I can tell you, and I still have friends over there that can relate the actual news to me versus what we actually see. ⁓ And they're getting their information from these social media things. they're not getting the truth. They're not understanding. They're not able to think for themselves because they're just taking the easy path. They're not researching what's going on. Anybody, I would say people. Yeah. Chris (12:30) Tuesday. Yeah, it's wild in the way that it goes out and it's the unexpected reality of what these things do and the way that they were crafted. They approached neurologists and psychologists to make these things as sticky as they can make them. Just simply saying, more and more and more content consumption is the whole goal. The whole beautification thing for girls, the whole endless scrolling. Kyle (12:52) Mm-hmm. Chris (13:03) Those are very, very purposeful, make no mistake about it, and there is accountability for that. Kyle (13:06) Sure. And Neal's pointed this out before. Think of those algorithms, right? Those algorithms get you down that rabbit hole. So for me, like I follow golf stuff. If I follow golf stuff, it's gonna tell me, hey, you can get your swing better by doing this. You can make your putts better by doing this, right? And then, by the way, somebody's gonna throw in there, oh yes, and by far this is the best course. And if you've never had this drink on the golf course, this is the best drink, right? And it's gonna get you to start your mind thinking, right? These are the kinds of things that the influencers will do as part of that. Chris (13:40) Yeah, yeah, it's really, I think, a part of the greatest challenge humanity has ever had in the history of humanity. How do we handle this consumption? How do we handle this information? We are not doing well. It's creating so much loneliness. It's creating so much pain, so much anxiety and fear galore. It's like fear mongering is an art now. Neil, give us a Go ahead. Kyle (13:49) Great. Great. Well, how much time do we spend on the screen, right? Or the kids, you know, just scrolling, Descrolling, as we call it, So, right, it's just, I mean, they'll get on it and they'll be on it for hours and they, yes, time has passed in hours and they've accomplished nothing but looking at memes or reels or whatever they want to look up. Chris (14:11) I love the kids came up with the title, it's so fitting. Adults! The cats are cute people, but dang. Neil, give us the last word on this and then we'll go to the real rabbit hole. Neil (14:37) I mean, really what it boils down to, think as it was stated before, cigarettes have their warnings. are certain laws in place for you can't advertise to kids certain ways. There are things in place because we know kids can't handle things like an adult can. Their brains are not developing. They're still developing. So therefore, they're more susceptible to certain things, right? That's the way it is. Social media is the same thing. If you take... Something that's designed to entice adults and you put it in the hands of someone who's still developing, it's a problem. Now, once again, I think I go back to what you said, Chris. Why did this girl have her phone checking her likes and posts during school days? Where were her parents in this whole thing? Why do they allow the apps on there? Like what's going on with that? And once again, the same thing. In the article, it says, you know, hey, how could someone under 13 get a Facebook app? People can lie about their age. Parents don't want to put their kids information on there as a security risk. So then how do you validate or prove it, right? So there's this double standard of, hey, you can't be under 13, but how do you prove that? Well, then the parents would have to put something on, then you have to put them, then it's a personal information concern. Like there's all these things. So to me, the parent should be held just as liable versus social media because the parent, as a child who's under 18, the parent should be the one regulating their child, not social media. Chris (15:30) Easy. Too easy. Neil (15:59) Just like with... Huh? Chris (16:00) Hold on, not so fast though. That's why I was kind of joshing Kyle a little bit. I'm not a bad parent. I actually heard, ⁓ I listened to News Nation a little bit, Chris Cuomo was talking about his kids, and I agreed pretty much entirely with what he said. He said, know, if I knew then what I know now, I would not have let Aaron and Adam, under any circumstances or pretenses, have any kind of smartphone until they're in high school. Kyle (16:04) Ha Chris (16:29) I would just utterly refuse it now. I think I would be able to force that issue. It would be a battle. It would be ugly, but that is a hill that I would probably die on. But I can't guarantee you that as I'm sitting here because it is such a powerful cultural reality all around the whole social landscape. And at the time, 10 years ago, guys, I didn't know. I had no idea what a Snapchat streak is. either of sure both of you probably know that. now, right? What a freak is. I know. I mean, I made fun of my kids for taking pictures of their shoes and sending it to a friend. It was a big joke, but they felt so pulled in with that. And, you know, I didn't even know what it was. You know, so, so it's, it's, it happened so fast. And I think that we jump at parents pretty quickly. Believe me, I've seen some crazy ass parenting things. I mean, nuts stuff, but Kyle (17:00) Yep, yep, I had kids, yep. Chris (17:27) I don't know how it's almost like you play that control game and then you're going to put your kid as a dot on the phone. And you know how I feel about that now. Like, no, but that's controlling your kid's location. That's making sure that you're monitoring them and protecting them. Right. I don't know, Neil. It's a Neil (17:45) But that's technically not controlling their location. You're just tracking their location, right? Controlling their location, taking their keys and driving them, taking the time to do that. The reality is as a parent, you have to be more engaged than what a lot of parents are nowadays. They'll give them a phone and just say, here's your time suck, right? Not them taking the time to really understand. When our kids are having issues, we know the difference between a normal Luke and an abnormal Luke. We know those things. We see those things. But that means the parent has to be engaged in their children. Chris (17:50) Well, fair. I think that's fair. Neil (18:14) You know, hey, give me your, I have a buddy who at nine o'clock, he takes all the phones at dinner time. They go on a table. Like there's things that are done that you can do. But once again, the same thing that applies. If I have a pack of cigarettes and I give my kids a pack of cigarettes, they can still choose to smoke or not smoke them. But I still gave them that pack of cigarettes. There's that side of it that you just have to be aware of it. And people are using technology because technology did, I mean, I'm not gonna skirt that technology was a great. Advertiser and all those things but once again, there's still a thing where there's it gets done to a certain level You can't let the parents out of it, you know Chris (18:51) Hot topic, Kyle. Kyle (18:53) It is, mean, and to this point, mean, my daughter's older now, but when she had a phone, it stayed on the counter at night. And I wanted her to shut down a little bit, right? And those endorphins, the endorphins go up and she gets to that level and she never can rest. you know, yeah. Chris (19:11) Yeah, man, my kids have free reign. My kids have free reign. You know, I'm not proud of that, but I'm gonna be honest about it. Look, we're way into the show and we gotta get to the rabbit hole and then we got three shows to review. This is a hot topic though, man. Kyle (19:22) Yeah. And before it is, but I will tell you now my daughter is my biggest stalker. She'll stalk me. like, Hey, you're over here eating. Can you bring me some food? Yeah. She does that now. Chris (19:31) Ha ha ha ha. boy, she sees where you're at. Turn around, spare play. All right, on the month in review, we do our down the rabbit hole with Mr. Kyle King. What you got, brother? Kyle (19:36) Yeah, that's right. So, being March, I was really headed down the rabbit hole of March Madness. And then the horrific events happened at LaGuardia Airport this week. I'm like, oh, that just kind of breaks my heart for all those involved. And so it kind of got me thinking, and probably something that you know a lot about is about various jobs and the stress levels that it can be. It just kept going down this rabbit hole. like, okay, well, who thrives? know, what are the risks? How do they survive? Who struggles? And, you know, a couple of things that I uncovered during my research is like, you know, it's not the job alone that determines the mental health risk. It's the interaction between a job demands and the personality wiring. So it's that person, personality that, know, from that Chris (20:40) industry. Kyle (20:40) Yeah, employee in that job, right? So for instance, so, you know, because the same job can burn out one person but not the other, but it depends on the personality. So for instance, like, you know, and I feel for, I started taking a look at the, give me the top five most stressful jobs. And I was like, did some research on that and then I was like, okay, what are the lowest? Sure. Chris (20:43) Okay, specific to the employee. Can I try to guess them? Air traffic controllers are up in the top five. Dentists? No? Not dentists? First responders, specifically police, has got to be top five. I thought dentists would be on there. I know, alright, I'm gonna quit. Kyle (21:11) Yep. Not dentist, nope. Yup, yup. No, you're good. Doctors and nurses, you know, they're probably at the top. ⁓ Eight air traffic controllers below that. First responders below that. Social workers, believe it or not. Teachers in the top five. Now, yeah, so, right, it's that emotional, emotional thing. you know, even for teachers, let's just take teachers for instance. You know, the burnout rate. Chris (21:31) Okay. There we go. dealing with other humans. Kyle (21:54) is kind of medium level, like 45, 50, 50 % is what the file. But who struggles in that kind of job? Control-oriented people. Because you know kids, Having control over those kids, is it gonna happen? Well, maybe to a degree, but not completely. Chris (22:08) No. Kyle (22:17) And it's interesting to see how they cope with it, whether it's peer support or emotional venting or structured routines. ⁓ And that's some of ways that they are able to cope with it to prevent that burnout. But then when you get to something like an air traffic controller, burnout rate is 30 to 40%, right? And I was like, wow, OK, that's different. ⁓ However, things like a suicide risk are very high. Chris (22:39) It's. Kyle (22:47) suicide risk for like a social worker is very high. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. And even when you compare the two differences, the differences between the two, when you think of the air traffic controller, the people that thrive on those are calm, focused, low emotional type of person who struggles, very anxiety prone people. How they, oh gosh, yes. That's exactly what it is. And it's amazing that, the different, Chris (23:07) Yeah. ⁓ Anxiety has got to be a predictor in all of those industries. Kyle (23:17) For the ERs, air traffic controllers, first responders, all of those, they handle their coping mechanisms in very different ways. Some can turn to dark humor, some can compartmentalize, ⁓ some can just, different kind of coping, right? Chris (23:31) You don't want to hear a therapist talking about mental health with another therapist. It's a little twisted. Kyle (23:36) There you go. It just made me realize some of the, you kind of know it on the surface, but when you start diving into this a little bit deeper, there are a lot more risks for those high stress jobs. They can burn out easy, they got substance abuse, emotional detachments. Compared to low stress jobs, when you think about those, their stress level never spikes. Because when you think of somebody like an air traffic controller, their mind is always going. They're always in a ⁓ overthinking type of mentality where they're trying to manage all of these things that, know, think of the LaGuardia airport, one of the largest airports it is. ⁓ Where like, so their mind is constantly stretched to the threshold of, Chris (24:26) It's a crisis at every turn. Kyle (24:36) thinking about what I do here, what I do here. And they're trying to manage all this at one time. know, Neil and I, and being in a technical realm, you know, I know I'm not gonna speak for Neil directly, but you know, for me, when I'm troubleshooting an issue, you know, my mind's going, but I can recover. I have time to recover. After that issue occurs, I can reflect and recover. If they make a mistake, they don't have time to recover. They're just moving on to the next thing they have to control. And that starts building upon one thing after another as they get through it, is some of the research I came across. So it's very interesting to read, to go through this. And I know you would know more about it than I would, ⁓ but yeah, it was definitely down the rabbit hole for me. Chris (25:25) Yeah, I appreciate that. My heart went out immediately when I heard that guy, his voice, you know, and he pretty immediately said, hey, I made a mistake. It was not on me. mean, you you, it's just, it's gut wrenching because you, got people, you feel as though when you do essentially have so many people's lives in your hand at all times, it's, it's overwhelming. You don't want to be responsible for a freaking plane wreck. Neil, what'd think? Kyle (25:32) Ugh. Yeah? Yeah. Exactly. Neil (25:52) haven't checked out is I mean it's just it's really crazy there that situation and luckily there was minimal casualties but it's just I think the biggest thing more time because I think how you're correct when we do IT issues if there's a problem okay you just deal with it and you go with it but like when you look at all these people that are one incident after another after another I mean the the hardest part to me is who's who are these people talking to How are they dealing with this process? How are they going through these struggles? When something bad does happen, can they actually talk to someone? Can they go home and talk to their significant other when most of them probably don't want to hear it? They don't want that extra stress. How do they cope with it? I think an interesting conversation I found out or I learned about with the difference between soldiers in World War II versus Vietnam. When they came back from World War II, they were on a ship for like two weeks coming back. Kyle (26:20) No. Neil (26:47) you had time to decompress with fellow soldiers to process everything going on. And once again, the other part is when they got home, they were heroes. When you're in Vietnam, know, eight hour, 12 hour plane ride, they're back into society. They didn't get a chance to process it. So if you're in a high stress situation, like first responders, traffic controls, and you don't have some way to process that, especially if you are a high anxiety, less calm kind of person. it's going to be really hard on you and it is going to lead to that burnout. You look at teachers and social workers. Social workers have huge caseloads. They don't really get support from the people they're helping or their coworkers or those above them. Teachers right now, it's a horrible field to be in. And so it's really important. But right now, teachers are not getting what they need. And so without that proper support, you're going to get those high burnouts. You're going to have mistakes happen. You're going to have these things going through these things. Yeah, I mean, it's a horrible thing that happened, but that's my two cents on it. Chris (27:46) It's a lot. It's a lot that we're handling and please listen and hear me. If you're dealing with anything like that and you're in any of those industries or if you have anything kind of going on, don't do them alone. I can't emphasize enough when you're alone in your own head and you have a stressful day, you might be tough, you might be a big girl with your big girl pants on and all the stuff that we purport is strength. I would say it's much stronger and more effective to not be alone with it. So please, you know, share the burden. Don't do those things alone. ⁓ Let's get on to our shows though, ⁓ as we have some really cool things. I don't know guys, I think we want to maybe make this first one a little bit shorter if it's possible, because we talked about it and I'm aware of the other two are a little bit more uplifting and I think we need a little bit of that in the world these days. ⁓ But we did have episode 347, Male Sexual Abuse, Sex Trafficking, PTSD and Recovery, part two. It was PTSD and Recovery. So the question is that we ask, why is male sexual abuse talked about so much less than female sexual abuse? Secondly, how does trauma from sexual abuse affect identity, masculinity and emotion regulation? And thirdly, Kyle (28:45) Hahaha Chris (29:13) What does real recovery from sexual abuse and exploitation actually look like? And I think that's the piece that I want to kind of highlight is what does recovery look like? Because Neil, you were on the show with Dr. John King, not to be confused with Kyle King. Guys put together, you know? Not that Kyle you're not, but he's put together and he's really well grounded and he's really able to speak about such a Kyle (29:38) is. Chris (29:42) harrowing set of experiences that he had for his life and you've got to realize like that doesn't come easy that is earned you know that is that is something that you have to very purposefully put yourself into situations it doesn't necessarily mean just therapy but what does actual recovery look like from what we saw from John King Neil Neil (30:04) 12 years, I think he said, right? 10 to 12 years, he said, on average. It was actually, I was very surprised at the length of the number and the exactness that he came back with, but for all the people that he's helped, that's his average. He said it takes like 10 to 12 years for someone to really make it through the process and look at those pieces. And I just don't, I don't think people understand it. Okay, go. Chris (30:06) Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah, and our friend that, I'm sorry. I was gonna say our friend that talked about it on the show here, Chris Davos. mean, it was every bit of a decade for him too. Neil (30:38) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and the interesting part, mean, once again, as you said, John, you know, John King, man, he's an amazing, when you think about what he went through, and we only got probably a sliver of what he dealt with, right? He gave one example, I think, and talked about some, but like, he really didn't go into anything. I just think the turmoil he went through, and then his decision to see a therapist, and that whole thing that he put that poor girl through, Chris (31:08) man! Neil (31:09) So if you hadn't watched it yet, but he was talking about when he finally decided he needed to go talk to someone, he was traveling somewhere or doing something, he finds this therapist and literally he says, he just does an emotional vomit on her of like everything that's happened. And so he's like, he was there for his 30 minute session and she like continuously canceled like the next five or six clients. And he just went through this whole thing and she, I think he says like she saw she's crying. She's like, I can't help you. And he goes, you have to because I've picked you. And it's crazy. Like, it's like, okay, well, maybe you can work with me and this other therapist like one day a week. He goes, no, I need like three days a week, multiple sets. Like he went at this thing hard. And he said, he gave the disclaimer, that's not what you should do, but that's what worked for him. And I think that's honestly, I wish some people would take his. Chris (31:58) He did. Neil (32:04) I think some people would, I think should follow him because I think there's a lot of people that are avoiding it, which is holding back their healing because they're not actually going through the part to actually get it out of their system. They sit on it, the therapist have to pull it out of them and get them to talk about it. And I think some people, once they start realizing it, I think it's better just to get it out, right? You get poisoned in your system, what do they do? They pump your stomach, they get it out, right? And I think he's a great example of that, but he is not the normal. Chris (32:28) Got extracted. I think that that is one of the biggest things that, that it's a strong element, a really important element of what does recovery look like at Dengshu doesn't look like you're alone. I, how many times do I say that, but you just, you've got to get it out and you know, you're right. It's the poison is just kills people. Kyle, we're going to have much more space with fun or comments. I swear to you. Kyle (32:56) No, I actually I watch I went back and watch the first show and I actually watched part of his movie ⁓ Yeah, so it was Very a while. I mean it was very eye-opening I should say some of the things that he went through I just I can't even imagine ⁓ Not only that I can't even you know, Imagine in the flood of memories that came back to him, you know at that one point in time in his life Chris (33:03) Yeah. Kyle (33:25) And then it's just like, I've got to go deal with this. know, thankfully he did because now he's able to help others. you know, wow, to me that flood of emotions, I don't know how I would handle it. I've never been in that situation. Chris (33:44) It's a lot. And I think one of the things that I want to highlight is one of the things that he taught me through that show. You know, I guess his target population is the louder issue as far as what recovery looks like. you know, he was talking about first responders and I didn't realize this, but, you know, the research is very clear that they report higher than average A scores and A scores is something that is used as a scale of ⁓ sort of a test or a tool to kind of measure things. And this includes experiences. So basically what I took from it is first responders have high incidences of the trauma things that we look for. Physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, violence, alcohol, drug addictions in the family, and then other mental illnesses such as bipolar or schizophrenia and that type of thing. Like there's a lot of first responders that are drawn into that. And I think what he was really referring to was that many have significant childhood adversity histories. know, and, and, you know, I just can't, like I say, I mean, it's, it's wild because you, you, almost, you have this like familiarity thing that happens in your psychology system. What you're familiar with, you fall into and, and sort of replicate and, and Neil, you like to say rinse and repeat the, the, the trauma and the things that that you've had experience, do you like recreate them? You know, it's almost like that's what you know. So that's what you engage. Also, that's what hurt me. That's what I want to go fix. Social workers, man, we have had histories. A lot of therapists have their own life experiences that get us kind of going in that field. That's that's a bit of a truth behind the the doors. And the closed windows. So. Yeah, I'm not going to talk about PTSD much. We've we've talked about that, but. ⁓ In the spirit of, you what does recovery look like? We talked about in the second half and, you know, John walked us through his experience and how he did this, but naming what happened accurately, Neil, you just laid out how he did that. I mean, it was like, but when we do that, we get to reduce the experiences, the levels of shame that we've had built up. And then we rebuild. what the body senses and experiences being safe using things like trauma-informed therapy. That's where we basically realized that trauma is so important and impactful in a person's life. And then relearning and learning and rewiring the emotional language that we have, all the non-verbals in the relationships that we're working to repair. For instance, one of the things that I learned long ago, A person who specialized in ropes courses. Yeah, well y'all ever do those ropes courses? That they're fun, right? They're fun as all get out, but they force you to do something. They force. Kyle (36:49) I've done them, yeah, they're fun. They force you to overcome some fears too. Chris (36:58) Right? Overcoming the fears and working together. And one of the things that he taught me, some guy that does these things, he's like, you know how you have to do touching? Like, you know, you'll have a story and you'll have to get from this landing across this beam to this other landing and people will fall because they're not supporting each other. So your hand hold, right? Everyone holds hands and you have much more stability and just go right through it. But people that have like violence in their history or sexual abuse, they'll give that limp touch. They'll just They won't grab because their body remembers being grabbed or grabbing as being threatening and dangerous. recovery looks like rewiring these things. ⁓ man, Neil, do you remember when he was talking about not able to give his kids a bath? That kind of broke my heart. You know? Kyle (37:48) I mean, because it doesn't form that bond that you should have as a parent. Chris (37:54) Well, he thought that he was doing something wrong with the nudity on his children in a tub is what he talked about, right? You know, you thought there's something weird about this. I shouldn't do this. I feel shame about it. Like, you know, and it's like, dang, you know, so recovery looks like you really get to repair that. You can hold a hug longer. You can actually grasp and support yourself with balance and shake hands and do very real functional things that if you don't recover, you struggle with that in a lot of ways. Kyle (38:05) Sure. Chris (38:26) Okay, that's a sad topic. think ⁓ the thing that I would like to end up on is we've started this thing of practical questions. so the question I would ask you related to episode 347 on ⁓ this trauma case where John shared his story is, so I'm asking you the listener, right? what is something that you've experienced in your life that you had shame feelings about? Shame is sort of, I've done something wrong or there's something inadequate or something odd or even evil about me like carrying that shame. So something happened in your life probably wasn't your fault. You did not do anything wrong. We tell little kids, right? It's not your fault. You didn't cause your parents divorce or you weren't asking for the sexual activity that you received. It's like. So my question is like, do you do you and I would add, how do you carry the shame about something that was not your fault. Think about that. And the journey would be to let go of that. So Kyle, I promise we can have a little bit more fun with these topics aren't as heavy. You could start cracking jokes on these ones. three, 48 finding peace and mental health, peace of mind, suicide recovery and why peace at all costs fails. questions. What does peace actually mean? And I really want to hit that on this review. Kyle (39:38) Hahaha Chris (39:55) What does peace actually mean when someone is struggling with mental health or suicide thoughts? Second, is peace something we achieve, something we protect, or something we learn? think we, Neil, didn't we land quite solidly on all three? Yep. And the third question, why do people sometimes chase peace in ways that actually destroys it? Can we talk about what peace actually means? guys. Kyle (40:24) Yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I mean, initially on this, really. Because, I mean, you see it a lot. You see people probably trying to achieve that, Chris (40:28) Hmm I do, but you know, I think honestly in church circles, which Kyle, I think is an area of support in your life with your faith tradition, right? It's talked about a lot as well. So I am actually gonna push it back to you and see, I am dying to hear what your non-clinical therapist perspective in the circles of peace be with you, right? That's what we say in churches and shake hands and do greetings. So I'm curious how you've understood the concept of peace. Kyle (40:46) Hahaha Well, I'll tell you how my perception of it for for me, it's one of one of those where I can sleep at night. You know, I'm not I don't have any thoughts or about things I've done throughout the day, you know, because I haven't. I haven't had to lie about anything. I haven't had to harm somebody in some form or fashion, not physically, but maybe emotionally. I haven't. But to me, if I can come in and sleep at night, be honest with people, ⁓ and fully transparent with them, to me, that's kind of like, I'm able to sleep, I'm good. Because I know I'm not hiding anything. I know I'm not. doing anything that is going to cause any problems or anything like that for the people around me. Chris (42:00) Locking it in, what I learned doing the show prep and never really thought about it fully precisely in this way, other than along the lines of what you were talking about there, Kyle, it's peace is the absence of the internal conflict that happens within us. And that's why you sleep. You know? Kyle (42:18) Yeah, absolutely. you know, you think about, you know, I'm really bad about waking up in the middle of night and I start thinking of, I got all these things about this. was like, or I got to, you know, calm my brain because like, you know what, if I had just done this on this one little shot on the golf course, I might've been, you know, ended up in a better spot. You know, these are kinds of things that impact my brain in the middle of the night, but not that. Chris (42:28) Yeah. Right. Kyle (42:44) I should have said this to this person because what happens is if I do have a situation where I do run into some type of conflict, it does cause me not to sleep at night because now I'm replaying the events in my head and right. I'm tournamaning myself and to the point where I have to go back and talk to that person that next day, you know, because I want that level of peace. want there to be no questions or misunderstanding between me and that other person. Chris (42:57) tormenting Kyle (43:14) It's like, hey, sometimes it's easy as just, you know, maybe it's my fault, right? And I apologize. Or, hey, I don't think we saw eye to eye. So let's take a step back and let's see how we can work together on this. You know, these are the kinds of things that we try to do. Chris (43:30) It's funny, like I don't want to turn it into a religion show, you know, but I mean, I grew up Catholic, right? And, you know, I would hear people say, peace be with you in church all the time. It's a very big Catholic thing. And that's cool. And I think they, I don't know if they know what they're talking about offering or actually experiencing though, because how do you have peace and then the concept of Catholic guilt paired together so tightly? I mean, remember as a little kid, like, my God, I gotta do wrong. I can't do wrong. I gotta say five hour Marys and our fathers and Hail Marys and the brosery and the things and the, I mean, it was, it really was like, if I screwed up something, I felt like just full of shame, which probably contributed to my rule following. That's not peace. That's not peace. You know, it's like, you know, and we're drawn to this, like, you know, peace of mind, peace be with you, rest in peace, keeping the peace. making peace with something, inner peace, make a peace offering, know, the peace pipe, peace treaty. We're drawn to this in a lot of ways. And I don't think we understand, Neil, I'm curious what you observed with that conversation, you know, ⁓ about the lack of internal conflict when that's the state of peace. Kyle (44:32) Right? Yeah. Neil (44:52) I was, before you just talked about that, was kind of thinking about what I would think peace would be. And it's kind of like, you know, at our ages, you you ever have an injury and then you finally get up and your injury goes away and you realize, ⁓ I can walk normal. I don't have that, that pain. Like to me, peace is living your life without whatever that pain is, that pressure is. Chris (45:09) you Neil (45:16) And that's what I don't think people are always trying to find that way. And I don't know if really people can get to that point where they understand it. Like you said, no internal chaos, no internal pressure, no pulled muscle, no pull. Like that's what I was kind of thinking. Like peace is that restful period because you don't have anxiety or doubt or you know, whatever it was that got you to that point fear, right? And I'm with you, the idea of being Catholic and saying have be peaceful. It's like, it's really... Chris (45:36) Fear. Neil (45:44) They really are different, right? How do you have peace if you're always worried about doing wrong, right? It's that weird juxtaposition. So that's that idea of there has to be a confidence to what you're doing. has to be ⁓ something you have to do to get things off your chest. The peace offering, that peace offering is designed to put it out there and then you move on from it, right? That's the goal to solve your problem is if something is not, if you have internal chaos, You have to get it in order so you have peace. I think that's the part that people have to understand. And I think peace is something that either you get it from a higher power or you find ways to how you how do you get yourself organized to actually deal with your situations so you don't have that continuously nagging at you. Chris (46:34) You know, as I was listening to you, it's funny we can get away from the church thing and say, you know, this is in parenting. ⁓ I was thinking of the torment that I had done when I would get frustrated and parent out of anger or fear, which is probably what happens a lot more nowadays than did before. ⁓ You're not really teaching or instilling a sense of peace in the kiddos. Kyle (46:55) No, no, I think we're all guilty of that, I mean, as parents. Chris (46:56) You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, when I come home and get fired up, man, because there's a stupid towel on the floor, I'm like, I'm tired, I'm irritable, and I'm yelling at you for a towel. And now they're like on edge. We're, you know. Kyle (47:10) Right. Or trying to teach your daughter math for the very first time. You know, that's a challenge in and of itself. Two plus two is... Yes. Chris (47:17) Did you struggle, Kyle? ⁓ Yeah, mine was the ABC's and 123's. got the marks over there on that table to show you, Kyle (47:29) ⁓ yeah, my daughter still reminds me. You've never been to your dad's daughter unless you've had to learn math from him at the kitchen table. Chris (47:39) Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't think of peace that way. It was, it was similar to when we did the show on procrastination. I think I used to think of it as like some obscure concept that, that you were just supposed to be blissful or euphoric, like peace. just, it sounds so magical almost, you know? Kyle (47:41) Here we go. Chris (48:06) And when I layered it in with this show and talking about it, it's just, it's the absence, Neil, I think you were putting great words on it. It's the absence of all that turmoil that we have with worry and fear and doubts and second guessing and analyzing and just overthinking things. I mean, I'm guilty about all of those. And therefore, I guess I really haven't had a peaceful existence on this earth. You know. ⁓ Neil (48:32) There was an interesting thing I read the other day about how military people can sleep well. I know there's the old joke about like, well, if you get up, you know, five o'clock in the morning, you run 10 miles and you do this, you run five more, like you'll go to sleep. The other part that I read was talking about when someone comes back from special forces or operations and they get back to their barracks or whatever, they take the time to get themselves situated. They close all the loose ends. They clean their gun. They... pack their stuff up. They do the things they need to so there's not this nagging, oh, I have something else to do, which was actually in my head that as a procrastinator, it's like, wait, you can actually do stuff and get it done? Wait, hang on, what is that? I can't save for tomorrow? But that goes back to that same thing. They're creating order out of their chaos so they're at peace so they can then go to sleep. So they can disassociate and say, I'm going to go hang out with this even though I just did this deployment and I had something crazy happen. They're going through these processes to help them. I think that's the part that we have to look at. What do you have to do at the end of the day? How do you organize your chaos so you can sleep at night? What loose ends do you have to tie up? What are those things that are really driving you crazy at this point? Who do you need to talk to? Do you need to write down? Chris, you've talked about getting up in the middle of the night and writing something down because two o'clock in the morning, can't think. You keep thinking about something, right? Now, there is something to be said about writing it in a book versus typing it on a computer. That was something that was brought up. saw the other day that they're like, if you write it down, it's a lot different than if you type on a computer. Because you've talked about that before at two o'clock in the morning, you got your laptop out and you wrote it. It gets it out, but it's not the same as the... But that's that idea, right? What do you have to do to get your life back into alignment, so you have peace? Chris (50:06) It is. Ooh, alignment is a good word. Kyle (50:21) Yeah, so it's first for me, it's going to class working out, you teaching, know, having fun with the and the community aspect, you know, with folks in the afternoon and evening. Chris (50:34) Are we peaceful when we work out, Kyle? Kyle (50:37) I am. It ⁓ is. Neil (50:38) Well, whenever Cal is working out, Chris (50:39) Isn't it painful? I'm in conflict! Neil (50:42) I think of like 1980s like Jane Fonda, like, let's get physical. what is Cal like? Is he wearing the spandex pants and the tank top? Chris (50:52) ⁓ No, no, no. Kyle (50:57) Now if I ever were that I'll quit teaching. ⁓ Neil (50:59) Or you'll get fired, one of the two. Chris (51:02) So there are types of peace that I thought about this, because John talked about the show and then we need to get off of this and get onto the other one to finish up. But the level one is external peace. And that's and I think that's where I stayed stuck in like the calm around me. And that's peaceful. Like I feel peaceful inside when I go out to the woods. Kyle came in from the house, Neil. He was was lovely out there with the birds and stuff. It was peaceful. But that's an external peace. Then you have an emotional piece, and that's the piece that I really added. And I was I was curious about that motion regulation as being what you can do, by the way, for yourself to create peace. isn't just given to you, even though John made the point that it is relational and then existential peace. That is like a bigger version, the deepest level. ⁓ You know, and to me, go ahead. ⁓ I thought I heard somebody talking. ⁓ The existential piece is really that peace in your spirit, your whole existence. ⁓ That's got to be hard to get to. But acceptance, having meaning, forgiveness is a big word when it comes to having peace. Compassion for others, getting curious about others occurs to me. There's these different things that are a part of what we do to curate our sense of peace. Sum us up so we can get out to the next one, guys. Kyle (52:30) One thing I'll say, you mentioned forgiveness. I don't think it's just forgiving somebody else. It's also forgiving yourself. that is one thing I'll throw in there as well. that's, you hit on a very, for me, I had to learn this. Learn, okay, what enabled me to sleep at night? And not that I was going crazy in my youth or anything like that, but. Chris (52:38) Absolutely. Kyle (53:00) I just learned what things were important to me and I focused on those things. And as long as I focused on those things, I had peace at night. Stop and smell the roses a little bit. It's focus on the people that are around you, focus on the relationships, ⁓ those kinds of things. Chris (53:20) I have a book title, Kyle, that says, what you focus on the most is what you feel the most. Kyle (53:26) There you go. Chris (53:26) You know, yeah. Okay, perfect. So let's get to the last show. ⁓ wait, wait, where's the practical question? So again, you to the listener, me as a therapist asking you, you're about your life. Like, is there something in your life, something that you experienced, something that you had happen to you, something that is in your life that you're avoiding? We can shut it down. We can numb from things. We try to run from things. All these phrases. But it generally doesn't work because it absolutely serves in preventing peace. So is there something in your life that you're avoiding that probably is a big contributor if you can identify that thing that you're avoiding to actually preventing your peace? Right. So episode 349 was a fun one, I think, man. I didn't know how it was going to go, Kyle. I had this idea of just saying like, okay, what is our go-to thing? Like, what did John, Casey, Victoria really, you know, use as their go-to reality? Like these are, it was just a broad question and there wasn't a lot of lead prep time. I think Victoria and John both, Neil, if I remember correctly, like kind of were in the moment on the fly, kind of trying to answer this for themselves. And honestly, I kind of forget what they said because it wasn't in our show notes. But the three questions before we go into it. So when emotional distress hits, what tool actually help people regain stability? OK, I hear people asking about tools all the time. Secondly, are there foundational strategies therapists rely on regardless of the specific diagnosis? And I think the show answered that question to be yes. And then what skills can people practice regularly so they're prepared when distress appears? ⁓ How did you do really Neil? curious listening to background on that deal like our go-to's and kind of kicking those around with each other and actually having different ones, you know? Neil (55:32) Yeah, you guys had some different ones. was kind of thinking, when I think as you were talking to someone else at your office about this, and when I saw the show title, and like about tools that we use, I'm like, OK, well, what? I was in my head going into really like, what have they talked about? Like EFT, CBD, whatever, all the things you guys do, right? Like, what do you do? Yeah. Chris (55:54) THC, baby! Kyle (55:54) Hahaha Neil (55:58) So I was like, I didn't really. And then you kind of came back with your thing. And then Casey came back with hers. I'm like, oh, those are tools, right? Those are valuable things that you should be doing. it's just, but was like, in my head, as a techie, I'm like, well, what software would you use? What tools, right? So I think it was good. And I think they both, I think John and Victoria, if I'm trying remember what they actually said, because John, think, misread the email, kind of forgot that you asked him for that. And then, of course, Victoria is just Victoria, which is. Chris (56:15) awesome I am too. Hi, Nook! Yeah. Random. Neil (56:27) No, I'll get to it. Yeah, so no, I thought it was a really good conversation because you guys really talked about different things that would really help a lot of different people through the process. And I think both you and Casey have some very strong tool sets that people should be focusing on. Chris (56:44) I totally remember Victoria was all about mindfulness. Yeah, at escape. Neil (56:47) That is her shtick. loves mindfulness. Chris (56:52) She definitely gets into the mindfulness strategies and all the different things that bring you into the here and now. I really am not recalling John though. That bothers me John. I'm so sorry bro. I have to listen back. Neil (57:06) Yeah, I have to go back and put it in Gemini and be like, what did John Pope say? Chris (57:10) Hey, mine was good old fashioned self care and every therapist talks about it, but I really I was I was developing that show concept. I'm kind like, you know, I call it the cornerstone of mental health for crying out loud. How can I not say that's not a go to? It's like and it is absolutely a bit universal. I care what diagnosis you have, if you have one or not even, you know, it's like you've got to be able to unplug. You got to be able to unwind. Like you said, your daughter is going to put that phone down on the table so they can power down. We've got to distract and relax and that goes a long way into creating peace, which the show built on. Kyle (57:48) Yeah, absolutely. mean, when I'm thinking about some of the ways to lower emotional stress, as the first question was talking about. For me, it's going to the gym, getting around people. I always go back to that. I always go back to that because it just... Because you see, when I interact with the members there at the Y, Chris (58:04) Neil, I hate him for being so worked out healthy. Gosh. Kyle (58:18) and you know they distract me. Chris (58:18) Real quick, said listeners real quick. So listeners Kyle runs a class at local YMCA, which is a weekly exercise class. You've been doing that for a long time, right? It's just a thing. Yeah. Kyle (58:29) Oh gosh, going on what 18 years now. So yeah, but you know, that's for me that that kind of de stresses me that takes away that, you know, emotional thought that's maybe, you know, bothering me or anything like that. It's, you know, talking with the members, it's getting interacting with the members, it's not making me they totally take my mind off of things. And then when I get in, you know, teaching mode, then I totally think I'm totally there. I'm in that moment and I'm not even thinking about the other thing. And it just totally gets away. Chris (59:03) You know, I had that when I was doing when I was coaching softball or baseball and the kids with basketball stuff. was totally. Yeah. Kyle (59:09) Right. Yeah, you're in the moment and you're not thinking anything else. So it gets you away from that thought process. Chris (59:14) Mm-hmm. And for those of you that are like me, I got to agree, Kyle. mean, my personal trainer, which I do have, don't laugh at me, Neil. He laughs at me with my belly and everything. Thank you. No, Jake was like, I went there on a Monday. I work out with him and I was just not feeling it there. And, know, and just absolutely like, look, I'm here. I'm pushing through just know, you know, and we kind of did the little row machine work build up. And then I pushed the sled with like, like three freaking big ass weights on it. Neil (59:24) you've made a lot of huge strides. Chris (59:46) Ugh, he thinks I have strong legs so he puts those weights on that sled. Anyway, and then we went back and we're doing the kettlebell, we're doing some squats and stuff and he looked at me, we're about 15 minutes in, 20 minutes in and he looked at me, he's like, those natural endorphins are kicking in, you feel better, don't you? I was like, ⁓ Bob, yeah, I actually do. And maybe he said that to me, but for some reason, Kyle, it just hit me. ⁓ Kyle (1:00:02) Mm. Chris (1:00:13) I now can begin to understand like, just because, man, because when you don't feel like it, you feel like the opposite. Kyle (1:00:21) Yep. Right now is a good point where Neil needs to insert ⁓ that clip from Legally Blonde. know, happy people working out, gives people endorphins. Well, it? Endorphins make people happy. Happy people don't kill people. Blah, blah, blah. All that kind of stuff. Yeah. So it's a perfect clip. Chris (1:00:30) Go Neil! You know what he's talking about? I'm actually playing. Neil (1:00:41) When I say legally blonde all I get is the bend and snap that's like the only thing I remember from the movie so But my wife jokes and love that movie. Yeah, but that you're our correct Yeah, because when they work out they get the endorphins you have yeah exactly I remember that ⁓ Have you ever seen the movie Chris legally blonde Kyle (1:00:44) hahahaha She'll probably know it. That's right. Chris (1:00:58) I don't think so. Yeah. Neil (1:01:00) You should watch it. You should take your girlfriend to it. Go watch it with her. Kyle (1:01:01) group ma- Yeah. Chris (1:01:04) ⁓ yes, that's a word. That would be cool. Neil (1:01:07) or your friend that's a girl that you're hanging out with. How about that? Chris (1:01:11) No, it's a girlfriend full-fledged man. I'm just used to the term that's hysterical. Hey Jackie by the way ⁓ Yeah, which one we That was that preceded I had the harem building a preceding the harem is done ⁓ I'm kidding everyone. Please don't give me all the hate mail and everything ⁓ so Casey's Go-to stuff was resiliency based field training and as always Kyle (1:01:18) Yeah, multiple girls in the house I was destined to watch it. Yeah, so I'm Chris (1:01:40) Casey just brings it, she just brings it, She got detailed and drilled into, ⁓ resiliency is her big thing. ⁓ What do you do to increase your ability internally to manage hard things, right? To get through and do hard things and manage the day instead of the day or the hard things managing you. mean, she's all about resiliency. ⁓ Kyle (1:02:05) Well, let me ask you this. mean, no, no, yeah, I didn't listen to the show, but does she constantly find herself putting herself in those stress, those situations where she can build resiliency or does it just find her? Neil (1:02:18) She's a mental health professional. She gets put into them, I'm sure, dealing with a lot of the people that she has. mean, she does a good job of not avoiding situations that most people would avoid. So she's a solid character. Kyle (1:02:21) I'm just curious. Yeah. Chris (1:02:35) Yeah, absolutely, Neil, but it's an interesting question, Kyle. I don't think that's what he's asking, Neil. The way I'm hearing that is, do you put yourself into circumstances to build resiliency, or do hard things happen and you go towards it instead of running away from it? I think there's a difference there, right? Yeah. Kyle (1:02:35) Yeah, so that know that helps build it. Yeah. Yeah, but that's kind of where I'm headed. It's like, you know, are you doing that to help build your resiliency or are you just naturally adapting and being able to handle things? Chris (1:03:07) what she would say? What do you think? I I'm kind thinking she would say you step up when things happen as opposed to maybe almost, you're almost saying it's like create art things to build your... Neil (1:03:18) This goes, let's go back to Craig Graves. What is his, what is his thing for, what is the name of his life coaching stuff? I can't think of what it's But they build out crucibles, right? They do the idea that they have different level crucibles. You have a crucible you do every week, every month, every quarter, every year. And the idea is that if you do something hard, Chris (1:03:22) I was just thinking that. ⁓ the four yeah Neil (1:03:47) you get used to resiliency, right? You get more resilient to those things. But then that monthly one is harder, that quarterly one is harder. And then you do the annual thing where they do the stupid stuff where they're like 48 hour, like in the water, pseudo Navy SEALs, right? So, but that's idea. I think Kyle, you have a great thing, right? Are you, because there are two sides of it, right? First responders get put into situations repeatedly all the time. You know, I think social workers, like I said, going back to the earlier conversations, right? Those type of people who have high burnout get put into high stress situations all the time. Now I think that goes back. If you don't have a high stress life, I think you should put yourself in something that challenges you. I think you should have those things that you have to be resilient for because when life kicks you when you don't expect it, how do you handle it? Kyle (1:04:38) And it will. And it will. Chris (1:04:39) It does. Neil (1:04:40) Yeah, exactly. It will and it does. And so I think that's important. If you can put yourselves in situation that you get stressed out, it really pushes your mentally, physically, emotionally in a controlled environment, you learn how to handle it. That's why when you look at military or police and they have drills, the drills are to heighten their experiences in a controlled environment. So when they get into an uncontrolled environment, it helps them build those resiliency. So. And then once you deal with that, then you go into self care and you recover from it, right? Got to all the notes, right? Chris (1:05:15) Love that. That was Commander Mark Divine, Neil, and the Unbeatable Mind. Neil (1:05:19) Okay, what was Unbeatable Mind? I was like, that doesn't seem right, but I couldn't think about what it was. Okay, perfect. Chris (1:05:24) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good stuff. I mean, what a month, you know, I think that we really did recover all in all with excuse me, the challenges that we had in those topics in February ⁓ to sum us up the practical question from, you know, episode three forty nine therapists go to tools for emotional distress. I want to ask you the listener here, right? Like, do you wait like Neil was just talking about. Do you wait until distress becomes super severe or really, really challenging? Do you sit around and wait for life to kick you in the rear end like Kyle knows and said that it does and it will? Right? Do you wait until distress becomes severe before trying to regulate yourself? Because I like the idea that Neil's talking about and it is an absolutely good path to have routines, to challenge yourself. Build it before you need it? How about that for a phrase? You know? Because when you need it and you haven't built it, you're kind of screwed. And that's not a comfortable place to be. So don't wait for distress to happen. Put yourself into tough situations. You know, I'm going to go right up on here to the elliptical machine when I'm done here. I really don't feel like it. I'm not going to lie. I'm in real time right now and I'm being genuine. I had a long day. Kyle (1:06:45) You ⁓ Chris (1:06:51) I've really kind of had a long week. I don't know why I've slept really well, but I just feel tired. I'm just not vibing it. I'm not digging it. I want to sit over in that chair right there, watch out there TV and just hang out. But I'm to go up over there and I'm going to hit the elliptical and I'm thinking it's a better decision. Right. That's hard to do. It's hard to do, but it's worth it. And I know here in about a half hour, I'm going to feel a lot better for it. Actually, the show kind of energizes me too. So that helps. Kyle (1:07:11) It is. Neil (1:07:20) You've had many shows where you go in, you're dragging, you're dog tired, and then by the time you're done with the show, you're like, let's go hang out. What are you doing, Chris? Chris (1:07:21) Ha That's true, you know, and when you're doing something that you love and you're passionate about, you care about, you feel it, you you live it. thanks, Neil, I take that as a compliment because maybe it shows a little bit. We are moving into the spring, y'all, at least here at stateside and around the world. We are glad that you join us for these Month in Reviews. Closing thoughts, Kyle, are you ready for all the humidity? You love all the spring. You ready for all the humidity coming to hit us in the face in North Carolina? Neil (1:07:45) It does. Kyle (1:08:01) ⁓ I've lived down in North Carolina all my life, so it just comes natural. The heat doesn't bother me. I'll go out and... Chris (1:08:09) Man, you don't know spring. Spring is so glorious up north. It's just, everything comes alive, everything's growing again, it's not humid, it's sunny, it's sunny for a longer part of the day. Here we get like a week before it's like sticky. Kyle (1:08:13) Ugh. Yeah, that's true. Of course, like I said, I mean, everything's yellow now. So ⁓ yeah. Now, this is this edition good topics. I enjoyed that listening and being a part of that. Good stuff. Chris (1:08:32) Alright, Neil. Appreciate it. appreciate you being here with us. Neil, think we have a guest that's on slide for next week. have Lisa Dina that's coming back with us. She promises to make me move, Kyle. She's going to have me behind this chair, like doing some movements or something. I don't know what that's going do, man. She's going to make me move and stretch and like do the belly. Neil (1:08:48) after. That would be a show for Kyle to be a part of too. Kyle and her can, we can get her, Kyle, and Jake back on the show and all we can, and it can just be show of torturing you, making you do stuff. Chris (1:09:07) Whoo. I don't like that idea. ⁓ Kyle (1:09:11) That'd be awesome. Neil (1:09:13) We'll Kyle (1:09:14) Yeah. Neil (1:09:14) that as a special show. We have 500 subscribers. Kyle (1:09:17) We're going to build your resiliency. Chris (1:09:17) Okay. Alright, you get 500 subscribers. It's been said, we'll get the three on there and they'll make pain on me. I'll do stretching, I'll do lifting, I'll do bending and whatever else. You know what? Neil (1:09:27) We're, you know, Chris, we're up to like 381 right now. So we're getting closer. Chris (1:09:31) Yeah. Wait, I didn't know that. That's all right, but we're going to put it in a two month time limit. So we're going to go April and May. If by June 1st we have 500, I will do all of that. Neil (1:09:45) I am reaching out to every contact on LinkedIn I have. Kyle, you do the same thing, as many subscribers as possible. Chris (1:09:49) Love it. Kyle (1:09:51) Definitely. Chris (1:09:54) That would be awesome, and I mean it, I would do it. All right guys, listen, have an awesome time around the world. We have a lot going on. We're trying to help you find some of that peace, cultivate some of that resiliency, and get this life going the way that you wanna get it going with mental health, because it is one of the most important things we believe in the day and age that we're living and becoming more important. So please come back next week. Thank you for hanging out with us. We really love doing this show for us. Tell a friend, we need some YouTube subscribers. ⁓ Not too many. Not too many. Neil (1:10:24) Not too soon, not too many too fast, right? Chris (1:10:28) Take care. Have a great week. Bye.