In the July 2025 Month in Review episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we revisit three thought-provoking conversations that blend philosophy, technology, and emotional connection. First, we explore the timeless appeal and modern misuses of Stoicism, highlighting its powerful virtues – like courage and wisdom – alongside the risks of emotional detachment or over-rationality. Then, we dive into the complex relationship between Artificial Intelligence and Humanity, where questions of identity, ethics, and psychological impact take center stage as AI becomes more embedded in our lives. Finally, we unpack the delicate balance of Acceptance paired with Cheerleading, examining how true empathy requires both validation and encouragement, and how phrases rooted in emotional attunement can foster real change.
See the July Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Links referenced during the show:
purestoic.com+8theguardian.com+8reddit.com+8
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/monthinreview
https://dailystoic.com/stoic-range-virtue-defense-moderation/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
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Episode #321 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: All right, listen, I’m excited because we have a new YouTube member. Jessica, welcome to the Through Therapist Eyes episodes. We hope that you find the, the, the content that we give you, providing some information about mental health and substance abuse, blowing up stereotypes and myths.
That’s what our jam is. So Jessica, welcome. New YouTube subscriber. We I miss when we do that. Victoria’s little clicks. She does, she does. Cool. Clicks.
Her snaps.
Chris Gazdik: She just snaps. She does like a double. Is that what it’s, yeah. Yeah. So lemme see, what else should I say? Like Adam’s [00:01:00] family, like Yes, indeed.
Not your family though. All right. This is through a therapist size where you get panel of insights from a panel of therapists about mental health and substance abuse, knowing it’s not delivery of therapy services in any way. We are sitting here on a day before August the first 2025, which means this is what date to think fast.
July 31st. 31st. You did that in synchronization. That was well done. And plans, right? Clearly choreo. Oh yeah. We, we talked about it before. We On the way here. Yeah. Nice. Subscribe. Click. Somebody was teaching me something this week that Spotify, you cannot click five stars.
No, you just follow, you just want followers on Spotify.
What a bummer. And they can leave reviews too. But yeah, they really, it’s, they don’t have the five star ratings. It just has the amount of followers.
Chris Gazdik: John’s gonna be very upset about this.
Well just keep it on app. You know, have Apple people, five Star and Spotify. People follow.
Chris Gazdik: And give us comments and reviews.
Yes, of course. And share. You can still share, I
Chris Gazdik: believe. And you need to share. Please. Hopefully,
Adam Cloninger: hopefully. Good reviews. [00:02:00]
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Well that’s, we know that’s only good reviews the case of course. And sharing is an important thing. Look, if you like our content, that’s your job. Please do your job, contact it through a therapist.
eyes.com is how you contact us with emails, questions, follow ups, corrections, which we will have a really funny correction, by the way, on the next show. I can’t wait for that. Did you notice that Neil?
I saw it,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. It’s fantastic.
Well, I, I noticed it when he said it, but I didn’t wanna say anything. Mid show.
Chris Gazdik: Oh really? You noticed it live? Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, you should have jumped in, man. He have jumped in Mickey, Ricky. So you’ll have to tune into the next episode to find John getting his correction. Look, this is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together. So did I mention there’s a big announcement.
Is there, there’s a big announcement if he said that or not. I don’t. Did you, Mr. Adam k Cloninger has been with us for two plus years doing the month in reviews, and before that, I think that you were, when we were [00:03:00] paneling out with a a, a nonclinical person taking turns, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. That was where you started.
And then you, I
Adam Cloninger: think 2 0 2 was the first episode. Oh my gosh. That’s impressive. Yeah. Two,
Chris Gazdik: two. Oh oh wow. I think it’s 2 0 2. You did all of the two? Two hundreds and half of the three hundreds. Oh, well, we’ll give you half. We’ll give you fifth. One fifth. I’ll give you kind of a half a quarter, so no, not quite.
One fifth. So this is your very last show. It is. Oh, Neil’s not
upset. What are you happy? Just someone else sitting next to me. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll figure it out. Whoever’s next. I can’t bro, in it. ’cause you know, I don’t wanna cry on camera.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, I really appreciate what you’ve done. I really do. You know, guys, you don’t understand, you know, the, the time that it takes, the energy, the effort listening, you listening might not grasp that. It takes a lot of energy, it takes a lot of time, and I’m very appreciative. You know, we don’t even make, you know, money’s galore and whatnot. So I, I really [00:04:00] appreciate what it is that you’ve done, Adam, and I want to tell the audience that honestly for the next month Neil, you didn’t even know that I was doing this.
So whatever you pledge or help us support the show, like normally happens I would like to a hundred percent dedicate to you, Adam, with, with whatever comes in with the buy me a cup of coffee and any donations that you, if you help out with a show before, we really appreciate that it’s all going to you for whatever we get.
So that’s a little bit of a surprise. I kind of wanted to do. Okay. I know, right? Well, hey, $5 is $5, man. I don’t buy him
a couple beers. That’s good. I mean, you
Chris Gazdik: know, and in honor of your last time Got you something.
Adam Cloninger: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: It is not wrapped ’cause Well, ’cause you’re a guy. Yeah. Right.
Adam Cloninger: And it says, it says Fred Gile as he throws it.
I’ve tossed it across the room. Can we put it in? Yeah, please do. Please
Chris Gazdik: do. So. He is getting, it’s ironic at the guy who [00:05:00] looks like Santa
gets a gift versus being the gift giver.
Chris Gazdik: He is. He is ripping the vanilla envelope open for the audio versions. Paper is crinkling and the excitement is real. Ah.
Adam Cloninger: Got some coasters.
Chris Gazdik: All right, we got coaster cups.
Adam Cloninger: And what’s the, I got, I I can always coffee, coffee cut. So two, two coffee cups. See, I should have had this during the show. Been, I mean, right. I could have been talking like this the whole time.
Right, Chris? Now you, Chris did try to order them like a year ago and something happened with the order.
So he, he tried. So
Adam Cloninger: I always try. So, so now like in, you know, nine months or so when I have to do another show for you or whatever and we do it remotely, I can be drinking coffee. Yes, please. Exactly.
Chris Gazdik: And it better be coffee ’cause we are, we stay sober on the show.
Adam Cloninger: It will be. There’s no telling what I might have in it though.
Well,
Chris Gazdik: that’s the point. It’s just pure coffee. Thank you. That’s what we have ethics in therapy, man. Although we do not have ethics in. Podcasting. I’m not a therapist, so you are not a therapist. Yeah. Sorry. No, you’re very welcome. And thank you [00:06:00] seriously for all you’ve done. It’s been a wonderful working with you here.
You’re, you’re a friend of mine. I appreciate your friendship and more so than that. I, I anticipate that continues as this ends. Yes. So,
and now Adam Chris, if you really cared, you’d go get a tattoo with him.
Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. It’s not gonna happen.
Adam Cloninger: I tell you what, it’s not gonna happen. We can, we can go get through.
This is est eye eye tattoos. This is stupid.
Come on, come on. You can pick which color you want. Let let, let’s get Chris to get tattooed by the end of the year.
Chris Gazdik: So episode 3 21 to July month. Review’s like next. He’s like, next topic. Alright. On the month in reviews, we have enjoyed going down the rabbit hole. I had the rabbit hole. Holy and prepared today, and thankfully we’re gonna do like a couple of rabbit holes because episode, whatever it was, the numbers are all screwed up.
Neil
three 19
Chris Gazdik: was a rabbit hole. The whole thing was one big fat rabbit hole that I’ve been in for a little while. More on that in a little bit down the rabbit hole with Adam for the last time, is a topic that [00:07:00] has something hopefully to do with mental health and or substance abuse that we just sort of rap about because he found it and it’s in the news and, and we love it.
So where are we going, man? Well, first thing, my new
Adam Cloninger: podcast through the wrap down rabbit hole. I’m just joking. Oh, there we go. I’m joking. I’m joking. Wow. Do you need a was not the big news. So this is the one that I thought I had talked about, so. I looked at the last three, four months episodes on review and I didn’t see it.
So I’m thinking maybe either I mentioned it in passing or for some reason my mind’s thinking that I mentioned it to y’all and I didn’t Completely. So as I start telling you this story, if I’ve already said it, you can redirect me. ’cause I got an, I got something else that goes along with it that I haven’t talked about yet.
Chris Gazdik: We were probably at a facility, you and I, Adam.
Adam Cloninger: Not really. I, yeah, I, I was thinking when we were here, or may, maybe it was one I was going to talk about anyway. So a, a couple went to Kangaroo Island off the coast of Australia. Is sound familiar at all?
Chris Gazdik: We’re starting off with kangaroos. Neil. Oh, it’s [00:08:00] Kangaroo
Adam Cloninger: Island.
Kangaroo Island. Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Nothing to do with kangaroos. So they went camping on Kangaroo Island. It’s this is, let see, did they have costumes on? They may have, I don’t know yet. Okay. Sorry. Shot up Chris. So, with brown, you know, little costumes, they were doing break dancing. I’m trying to control myself.
I’m joking Adam, I’m trying to control myself over here. So they’re on Kangaroo Island and this has happened about not quite two years ago. About a year and a half ago, I guess. So they were there for a week. Se well, I said seven days. They were there and they brought their little Dotson Valerie with them.
Okay. Okay. So they had a little makeshift pen for Valerie and, you know, they’re doing stuff. Anyway, Valerie got out, of course, she wants to go run with the kangaroos. Yep. That’s probably what happened. So they looked for her for a couple days. They had people helping everything and they finally had to go home.
Chris Gazdik: Aw.
Adam Cloninger: Now this, that was a, you know, a bad thing. It’s kind of sad and everything, but that’s what I thought I had told [00:09:00] y’all about before, which I evidently I didn’t. ’cause y’all were looking at me like you’ve,
Chris Gazdik: no, this is all new.
Adam Cloninger: Nope. No. So as time went on, they kept being, they kept on getting reports of people having a sighting of this little Dotson
Chris Gazdik: on the island.
Adam Cloninger: On the island. This is like a year and a half ago. Oh. So on the island by itself. And people would say, yeah, we, we saw the Dotson tried to feed it, it’d run off, try to, you know, get it coming. Said, run, run away. Couldn’t ever give anything. So, and then somebody finally took a picture of it, or maybe a, maybe it might have been a video, but the woman saw it, the, the owner and was like, yeah, that’s, that’s Valerie.
Definitely. The Valerie. Oh my gosh. A year and a half later. Yeah. So 529 days later. Wow. They had put out a, and I don’t know how they set this up, but they actually put out a little, like a kennel with a remote control door and a camera, a web camera. Valerie went in there, they hit the button, the door closed.
Oh. They went and picked Valerie up and Valerie’s back home now. Oh my goodness. [00:10:00] That’s crazy. I thought that was interesting. So, you know, even though things look like it’s gonna be impossible, impossible can still happen.
Chris Gazdik: I love that, that that’s, I mean, where’s Kangaroo Island again? You said off the coast of Australia.
So it’s so an Australian couple. Yeah. Gets to reunite after a year and a half with their 529
Adam Cloninger: days.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. You know, I, that is awesome. And, and thank you. That’s a, that’s a, that’s afu that’s an awesome one to start to end with, I should say. Because what you’re saying is hope.
Adam Cloninger: Yes.
Chris Gazdik: What you’re saying is, you know, when things look bad, you, you, you want to have internal resiliency and, and, and continue to stay grounded.
Positive, no, not trying to predict the future with negative insecurities and fears, even when things look, you know, bleak
Adam Cloninger: and that only hope also change. Because one thing they did say about Valerie was when she came back to the house, she acted almost completely [00:11:00] normal. She started playing for her toys like she normally did.
She did them, you know, same, you know, sitting up, begging for food, all that things that the dog, normally Valerie
Chris Gazdik: is Valerie, but
Adam Cloninger: Valerie is a little more independent now. Mm-hmm. Because they figure, you know, she spent 529 days by herself. I mean, yeah, whatever she was eating, I don’t know. But they figure she was getting water from a, a stream that was there.
She’s just living, dating. Yeah. She was living, living her best life 529 days and she’s back home.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. You know, I, that, that is awesome. There’s independence, there’s messages of, of, of rebound. There’s, you know, dealing with loss. There’s there’s a lot in a story like that. You know, I, I love the stories that are based on survival stories and true stories that, you know, that people have survived Holocaust and have survived for, you know, years on the ocean and just crazy survival stories like that, that, that just warm your heart.
’cause it gives you, it gives you primarily hope and, and persistence. I mean, there’s just a [00:12:00] lot of messages with it. So, pretty cool. What you thinking over there, Neil?
I don’t even know. I was reading the notes from the stoicism ’cause I’m trying to get ready for it. Yeah, I know. I’m worried about that too.
Like big
Chris Gazdik: time worried here.
No, I, I think it is good. And I think what’s interesting about, it’s like the, the pieces, you know, finding people saying, oh we found the dog pilot. Like there’s that continued re rebirth of the hope, right. Which is like, that’s what, how you can go for a year and a half when you think, you know, instead of just completely giving up because you’ve never see the dog.
They constantly had that reminder like, you know, someone else came back, they can play strangers helping them. Yeah. Which is cool to see from a community standpoint, right? That idea about trying to help that other people get to that. So, no, I think it’s a great story and it’s definitely one of the few positive ones you’ve had for your rabbit holes because you like, you like to go a little strange on some of those, so yeah.
Great way to end it.
Chris Gazdik: What do you remember from the rabbit? Holes. I’m totally going down the rabbit hole of the night fighting that, that, that to me was, I think night fighting. That was the, that was the best one. Human [00:13:00] flesh in my memory. Brain. Human flesh. Yes. Feeding human flesh. There was eating human flesh.
Adam Cloninger: The woman who died on the plane and the person had to sit beside ’em. We had the anger rooms of breaking
Chris Gazdik: things. There was, yep.
There was rage. Dreams. Yeah. The rage room. Then you had the creep, the one where the couple went there and the guy killed all the pets in the pet store. Yes. That was a positive one.
That was a good one. Pet store. Yep. Right. I
Adam Cloninger: remember that one. That’s the one you said I sound like Mr. Balling the way I was talking about it. Yeah. How do you
Chris Gazdik: come up with these things? I think we need to, we need to ask. You’re gonna leave it a mystery.
Adam Cloninger: Dude, do you not? You talk to me all the time.
Chris Gazdik: I it’s fits, you know, I do.
This is for them, this is not for me.
Adam Cloninger: Just something that I think might be, you know, this, this in my head that I’m thinking about.
Chris Gazdik: But do you do this all the time in your natural time? This is why the rabbit holes are absolutely the rabbit holes for Adam. It’s white fits, right? Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: And, and I, you know, and I’m so bad about doing it.
I try, I tried for the first year or probably of trying to think of like, [00:14:00] okay, what Amm gonna talk about this month? And then by the time it got to be time for the episode, I’m like, what was it? I don’t remember what it was, so I just wait till like the last day. Okay. Or like the day before. Neil, this is Adam’s normal life.
No, normal life. His normal daily experience. Yeah. So, so
the rabbit holes is what you’ve seen like in the last 24 hours basically? Yeah, just something. So
Chris Gazdik: I believe that I, and
Adam Cloninger: actually the, the thing about the Valerie thing actually, like I said, I remember a few months ago and I, I thought I mentioned it, but anyway, I just happened Oh.
There’s an update. All right. I’d mention that it
Chris Gazdik: was one of the 365 ideas that you’ve had for Yes. Could have been a rabbit hole. Could have been. Oh man. Alright, let’s go on to review the weird month of July, 2025. Neil, I don’t know, man. We had summer schedules, vacations, transitions. Now we have major announcements.
I mean, hella month, right?
Yeah. It’s been a little strange. We’re having five Thursdays and still only having the three shows, so it’s [00:15:00] kind of like,
Adam Cloninger: right. We did skip a week. Sorry. It was just So are we gonna have another episode about procrastination? It’s not procrastination, man. It’s People get organized, man.
Oh, well I had to go to a thing with my wife. She had an art show and they, for whatever reason, if you’re in art, but that was your fault. Yeah, that was my fault. Right. And they always do art receptions on Thursdays. I don’t know why. ’cause Thursday, everything is always on Thursdays, so. Just so you know, if you get into art, art receptions will be on a Thursday, so free you up your calendar for Thursdays.
Chris Gazdik: I’m, I am, I’m giving us time and, and, and procrastinating Neil, because Adam we did a show, episode three 18, stoicism Virtues and Potential Dangers. Do you know anything
Adam Cloninger: about
Chris Gazdik: stoicism?
Adam Cloninger: Just about being like, comfortable with certain conditions, kind of, what is it exactly?
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Neil, do you know anything?
Haven’t even listened to the show about stoicism?
Well, yeah. I mean, the idea of stoicism is that you [00:16:00] live your life on an even keel, right? You try not to get affected or you try not to let things affect you as much. That’s that idea, right? You don’t get excited. You don’t get, like, that’s those weird ideas, like you’re stoic.
It’s like you just live a constant plane. Whatever that constant plane is, there’s no major shift or changes in it.
Adam Cloninger: Hmm. You don’t let things bother you. That’s kinda what I was talking about.
Chris Gazdik: We all have chat, GPT and everything now on our phones. Do, do either of you have chat on there?
Adam Cloninger: No. Oh, man.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. You
Adam Cloninger: know what?
Let’s do a real live thing. You just did, just did a episode on this. I’m telling you,
Chris Gazdik: I’m, I’m, I’m scared. Neil and I are both are worried. Now we’re gonna talk about this one, all right? This is a real live chat, GPT conversation chat. Can you describe the philosophy of stoicism?
Neil Robinson: No. No, it can’t.
Chris Gazdik: She’s not talking.
Neil Robinson: [00:17:00] She’s being stoic.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, well, yeah, she’s being stoic. Okay. Is that better? It’s
Neil Robinson: doing nothing. Ah, dang
Chris Gazdik: it.
So now we see, we’ll see. Good to see how Chris reacts as he gets frustrated with chat, GBT if he can stay stoic during this whole whole thing going. Hey Jack, can
Chris Gazdik: you tell me about the philosophy of stoicism?
Stoic
ChatGPT: teaches the development of self-control and fortitude as a means of overcoming destructive emotions. It emphasizes the importance of accepting things we can’t control, focusing on our own actions and responses, and the living in harmony with nature and reason. The major stoic philosophers include Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, and Epictetus.
It’s all about cultivating resilience and inner peace.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Well, thank you, Chad.
ChatGPT: You’re very welcome. If you ever wanna dive deeper into it, have any other questions, just let me know.
That’s exactly what I said. [00:18:00]
Chris Gazdik: It kind of is, but it kind of, I mean, yeah, I guess you could say that Neil, I, I, what was the
Adam Cloninger: very first thing I said? That’s what I was trying to say.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. This is, it’s interesting, right?
Like you both sort of said that, but it is, that’s the, that’s the definition of Stoic. Stoic. So it is an adjective, it is not a, a whole built-in philosophy that I think a lot of people misunderstand and just go directly to the definition of the word, which is what I felt like you guys did. You didn’t talk about an ancient Greek philosophy that had the virtues of this and that and the other, and the other.
I mean, I didn’t wanna get into that. Well, that’s what it is. That’s stoicism. Right. And I don’t know a lot about it, to be honest with you. And, and so I, we, we really heavily lean on Dar
Adam Cloninger: Okay. It’s part of Ek Kdo too. How about that? What’s that? It’s part of Jeek Kdo also.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. What is Jean Kau? Who is Jean Kau?
Ek Kdo is a, A ma
Adam Cloninger: style. Tys, it’s a martial art system. Okay, well what’s that got to [00:19:00] do with stoicism? It takes all that in, in the, in consideration.
A lot of martial arts are along the same based on they’re, they’re very similar to the same ideas of stoicism.
Chris Gazdik: I could take that. I, I, I see that. I I didn’t know that they purposely had it connected though, so that’s, that’s fascinating.
Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: Kdo is just a, in a shortened version of what the saying is, is having no way, having no limitation. And as part of that, you take what’s useful and discard what’s not. So if something like stoicism would be a useful concept for someone to take into their philosophy of life.
Chris Gazdik: Gotcha. Okay. Well, the three questions with the show are, what is stoic virtue courage, temperance, wisdom justice, do you most want to cultivate and why?
Secondly, have you ever used stoic techniques, negative visualization, acceptance to cope, and how did it impact you? And then the last question we focused on is, do you ever worry that suppressing [00:20:00] emotions or avoiding action could backfire? So that’s kind of the angle that I take with it. I, I don’t know much about stoicism, but I’ve had more than once folks will bring this into a therapy session and begin to kind of operate with what they sort of deem as being stoicism.
But I, I see it much more used as a rationalization or like shut down, conceal emotions, just be the definition of stoic, which is not really what these virtues of stoicism are, are about. Right. I learned a little bit more during the show prep and listening to John about basically this being a courageous virtue, meaning you face adversity head on rather than fleeing from challenges.
That doesn’t sound like being stoic or having tempers in moderation. You guys both mentioned that, right? Like avoiding extremes to prevent rigidity or burnout so you don’t go to polar [00:21:00] extremes and you allow yourself to be, you know what? Honestly, kinda seems we use the word grounded. That’s not like numbness, wisdom, recognizing what’s within our control and acting rationally.
I mean, that’s serenity prayer, which serenity would probably be a big piece of stoicism, not shutting down, compartmentalizing on life and emotions, justice, living ethically and contributing to a community. Those are actions, those are engagements. You see where I’m getting at. Mm-hmm. Key practices is premeditation malorum, whatever that is.
That’s visualizing challenges, I guess journaling, emotional reframing and distinguishing control versus external control. So we talked about locus of control, internal and external. So it’s interesting that the true virtues of stoicism are really pretty cool and really based on, like, a lot of psychological practice is based [00:22:00] on this stuff.
I bet. But when I find people jumping into stoicism or saying that they wanna become a stoic in that philosophy, it ain’t this stuff. So I oftentimes get concerned. And so I, I, for a long time I decided I. Wanted to dive into it and talk about it on the show, but I don’t know enough about it to do a whole lot with it.
So thank you, John, for, for bailing us out. I think in a lot of ways, I, I think Carrie was on that show with us and I don’t know Neil. I think we were just like lost. Right.
Yeah. I think he led it. Carrie really didn’t know what to say as far as I was concerned. I think you, yeah, John did lead a lot of that, but I think it kind of goes back, I think the misconception on stoicism or being stoic.
From the outside, it looks like shutting down numbing. But really on the inside it’s about processing and building systems in place, right? It’s just like a, a river that’s deeper. You don’t see the how fast the current is, right? Where if you’re shallower, you see all the water moving, but it’s, you just see the difference, [00:23:00] right?
So when someone’s stoic, it’s a good metaphor for, yeah, they, and when someone learns to be stoic or they’ve really practiced stoic stoicism, they seem detached and they seem unemotional, and they seem like nothing bothers them. But what they’ve done, done is they’ve learned how to process. They’ve built systems in place.
They’ve learned to accept what they can, change, what they can, and then kind of move on from there. Right? So from the outside, you’d think. There’s nothing there,
Chris Gazdik: calm waters.
But when you look at what they’ve done to get to that point,
Chris Gazdik: lots of deep current,
right, exactly. You know, duck duck’s legs under the water, right?
Mm-hmm. I was really thinking of the duck. Yeah. So, and I think that’s the, the misconception, right? Stoicism is not social detachment. It’s not being numb. It’s, I’ve already processed all of this stuff and I can learn how to regulate myself even with a fire going, or even though I’m having an argument, or even though I’m having a hard time, or, or those deficit, like, that’s, that is the ultimate end goal that I think a lot of people should have.
And even talks about the [00:24:00] community stuff, right? You want to contribute to society, you wanna contribute to the community, not just for yourself, you know, to be, you know, help yourself. It’s legitimately the altruistic side of it as well. So, yeah, stoicism, it’s hard to do, but from the outside it looks like, oh, they’re just shutting down.
They’re not talking, they’re,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. It’s almost like being calm under fire. The fire of life. Yeah. Calm and calculated. Calm, calculated. I like that. Yeah. And, and so that you’re not allowing your emotions to be in charge. Throwing you on polar extremes of being way too hot or way too cold. There’s a, there’s a lot of emotion regulation.
You’re right. I
Adam Cloninger: mean, I can think of instances where I was, you know, borderline panicked. I’m like, okay, relax. If you panic, things are gonna get bad. Just relax and you can work it out. And you know,
Chris Gazdik: it’s mindfulness. Like I said, I think if we took a deep dive on this, and I’m not the guy to do that ’cause I don’t know anything about stoicism and I didn’t ask John, I wish maybe now we would’ve made more of this as a focus, Neil, [00:25:00] the idea that, I just got a wonder, I’m, I am now a burning question for John.
You know? ’cause he knows more about stoicism than I ever dreamed of. How much of our current therapy theory bases are based on things like this. And you mentioned martial arts is what made me think about that. ’cause the answer’s probably a lot.
I feel like a lot of the stuff that you guys talk about in therapy, it matches a lot of the same lines of what you’re trying to get people to achieve.
So it should line up really close. You know, what you’re doing with mindfulness and practicing and once again, external internal notice of control. Like there’s, it’s all the same basic stuff. Stoicism just puts it a nice bubble. But yeah, it should line up very, very close where, where people want to be or what they’re trying to achieve.
So in a couple months to a follow up episode on this.
Chris Gazdik: No, that made me work too hard because I don’t know this stuff.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah, you can do that.
Chris Gazdik: I have to work harder and learn more. [00:26:00] I, I think I’ve fired my want on this topic for, for, to a large part dude, honestly, because I wouldn’t know how to answer that. I don’t, I don’t know it well enough to, to know how it plugs in and how we played off of that.
I’m just intuitive enough, honestly, to bet my bottom dollar that, oh, we absolutely have, which is the way theories are based. And philosophies just, I mean, things build on each other over time. Like humans have philosophical thoughts and create this thing, and then we take the pieces that we get, add other pieces and we just call it something else.
So, you know, dialect, behavioral therapy, for instance, is all about emotion regulation. I wonder how much of stoicism is in the dialect behavioral therapy world and they don’t probably know it. And I bet there’s a lot. That’s my point. Or that’s what I’m thinking. But I wouldn’t know how to answer that, that that’s kind of beyond me.
I landed on in my brain the potential dangers and critiques of the thing that I see at least in [00:27:00] therapy with people. And that is what we’re touching on, you know, emotional suppression versus healthy regulation. Okay. Apathy or social detachment. Those are not what we want. Overemphasize on individualism.
I’m gonna pause there. I really have found that when people kind of take this dive into stoicism, it’s really based on myself, my individualism, my emotions, my time, my space, solitude. And that is not, like you said, where did you see cultural component, Neil? I’m curious. Is it even on here? It’s in your
notes.
It’s under the justice side. It says, living ethically and contributing to community, not just self-driven, self-directed value. Oh, there we go. Okay. Yeah, so I mean, that’s that same idea, right? You’re, you’re trying to contribute too, right? You’re not what? Social
Chris Gazdik: activism as a part of stoicism,
what Absolutely not activism.
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah. Well, living ethically and contributing to the community, not just, yeah. But activism
is not contributing. Activism is, [00:28:00] activism is just. Being loud and ruckus and they’re doing it ’cause they want attention. There’s a difference between contributing to society or contributing to your community and just yelling about it.
Neil is jaded. I’m just saying where it’s shifted.
Chris Gazdik: Neil’s
letting
Chris Gazdik: his anger out. Adam,
do you notice him being very s stok about it? I’m just talking.
Chris Gazdik: There is no voice tone, but he is a duck underwater with his legs going crazy right now. What are you talking about? That’s not having to do with activism. I gotta take you on for just a moment.
That activism is like taking an action for a cause. That’s not bad.
But if, and the idea of serving a community, you should be just doing things in your community to serve it. Not just, once again, activism is making a scene about something. It’s, it’s stopping traffic. It’s throwing, it’s throwing. No, that’s rioting.
It’s throwing cans of soup. Mostly peaceful protests and mostly peaceful protest, man. That’s right. Once again, that’s the difference, right? I guess maybe the, I [00:29:00] guess maybe you, there’s, so activism is actually going out and actually finding people that need help and actually doing things right? Yeah. Lots of things you really need to be, or in your life, you’re actually com you’re opening the door for people, you’re giving your last $5 to people you’re donating and helping that soup kit, like you’re doing things that in the community and actually needs not what you think.
Chris Gazdik: Shoot, man. I think as long as you’re really being appropriate and you’re taking an action on something, protesting even, and whatever I am, don’t hate me, don’t email me. Don’t get all over me. But yeah, I’m actually a card carrying member of the NRA. Can I say that on a podcast? Oh my gosh. And the stuff that can come out of that is nonsensical.
I, I, it’s like weird stuff and, but that, but they’re taking actions and I have no problem with that. Activism is speaking for a cause. Come on. What do you say, Adam? Come on. It’s your last
Adam Cloninger: session, brother. I was just there thinking you can’t get the email anymore. I’m just thinking, man, [00:30:00] sometimes he goes on both sides of the fence, don’t he?
Chris Gazdik: Oh, brother, I’m, I’ve told you. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, yes. I’m an independent. I am independent. Can I say that on a podcast also? Let’s move on, shall we? Since Adam doesn’t wanna, he asked
Adam Cloninger: Episode,
Chris Gazdik: episode three 19. We’re skipping Neil. ’cause. I’ll go down the rabbit hole on artificial intelligence effects with humanity.
I think we just ask Adam,
Chris Gazdik: oh no. If we start this, it won’t
stop. We’re gonna, we have to do this one third this. You think so? Yes, I do. Okay. A
Chris Gazdik: hundred percent. We cannot, we will, we will never get to episode three 20. Accepting, paired with cheerleading. So let’s do that one first questions that we posed is, when has someone accepted you without judgment?
And how did that affect you? Second one, have you ever received encouragement that felt too soon or dismissive of what you were going through? And then how do you balance [00:31:00] overing, empathize, em, offering, balancing, offering, thank you. Empathy with inspiring change in your own relationships. And I, I really enjoy this particular show.
Guys, because I, there’s a lot in this that I think is my own creation of the pairing, cheerleading and accepting. You can’t do just one without the other. And we talked, I think we had a really good conversation about that. What do you think, Adam, about the word cheerleading? ’cause that’s a little bit of a weird clinical word.
It is not right. Like, how do you pair acceptance with cheerleading? Just by the title. What I’m curious, I’m having trouble with the concept, what your brain does with it,
Adam Cloninger: because I can’t think of anybody that’s ever been like a cheerleader for me. So I, I’m having, it’s a foreign concept to me.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Really?
Okay. Not even Julie.
Adam Cloninger: Well, Julie, but I’m thinking back, like, okay. Through life. Well, I mean, I wrestled, I did cross country, I did competed in martial arts every, every sport
that never has a [00:32:00] cheerleader. Well, yeah. But I never had anybody there, there for
Adam Cloninger: me either. Yeah. For any of those. So. Okay,
we should have gotten to this sooner.
Now we could. Now we don’t have time to unpack all of his trauma from all the doing the individual sports. That was all for real. I
Chris Gazdik: wanna reserve a friendship with this dude. So how far down this Adam Rabbit do we get into? He’s on the couch. He’s into therapy office. We’re on a therapy show. Neil, I’m trying to control myself.
You take it from here.
No, I, I think you’re correct. Right? When you do those, when you do those types of sports, it’s a lot harder. Right? I was a wrestler as well. I tried cross country. It got boring. I couldn’t do it. But no, wrestling is definitely a unique sport. When you think about, right? You, you’re out there on the map by yourself and it’s all on you.
You have your teammates on the bench, but it’s just completely different. So yeah, I understand that logic of like mm-hmm. Not being in a sport where you have your other teammates out there doing it with you. Right. The players, same thing with martial
Chris Gazdik: arts. I mean, you, you know.
[00:33:00] Exactly. Unless you’re a Samara with other Samurai doing stuff.
But that’s a whole nother thing yourself. That’s on the next level thing. Exactly. You’ve
Chris Gazdik: never done that, Adam, right? No. Okay. Just making sure
Adam Cloninger: that sorts.
So, yeah, so I, but I think the topic is a really cool thing because the idea of that acceptance and then the outside side of the cheerleading part of it is, it’s an interesting dynamic because I think sometimes you need an outside source to help motivate you to accept yourself or to get past whatever happened or what’s going on.
Chris Gazdik: It’s crucial in order to live life. I, I have come. To identify different things in working over the many years. Like I’ve, I’ve said one of the trickiest things to deal with is a, as a, as a parent dealing with a child of theirs that has alcohol or drug related issues, it’s just a, a quagmire of, of kind of trouble spots.
And so along those same lines or similar lines, what I’ve kind of found is that when it comes to like insecurities and patterns of, of behavior in [00:34:00] our life and whatnot, like if you have a super critically. A super critical person in your life, someone who just kind of tears you down, beats you down, you know, domestic violence, emotional abuse, or a narcissistic parent or just, just heavy criticism in your life that’s crushing like that.
I feel like I’ve learned crushes people’s spirit more than most anything I’ve come across. That’s, does that sound like you got a funny facial expression? What are you thinking?
Adam Cloninger: I know what you’re talking about. Okay. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: You, what do you mean by that? Because it isn’t about not having cheerleaders at sports and whatnot.
It it, well, my mom, it’s,
Adam Cloninger: well my mom, it’s like no matter what happens good. It’s because of her.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Right. Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: You got your good looks from my, from my, from my side of the family. Mm-hmm. You know, just stuff like that. Constant and chronic constant. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: Do something good. Oh yeah. Well, let’s, because I wouldn’t.
Chris Gazdik: Inflating [00:35:00] self to diminish others. Yeah. Whenever the topics of randomness even come up, right? Yeah. Say that again. Diminishing others to inflate self. And it’s crushing. It’s, it’s, it’ll, it’ll make you doubt fundamental things about self and functioning. And so this. Acceptance, paired with cheerleading goes at exactly the opposite.
It is really empowering and complimenting and engaging so that you’re really, I mean, it’s, it’s a, it’s a hell of a space to be in. So is that what you meant more than does not having Yeah. I’m
Adam Cloninger: thinking narcissist, you know Yeah. Behavior. So that’s why I was thinking of,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, narcissism is a hell of a thing.
And, and it’s so rough in, in families because when you have, now mind you, I’m talking about narcissistic personality disorder, people use our clinical buzzwords and they don’t use ’em correctly. It drives me crazy, Neil, sometimes.
Oh, it’s, it’s amazing how many people take an entire disorder or syndrome and then make it into like, I have that.
I’m like, no, no, you don’t. Let me diagnose. [00:36:00] Okay. We had a family friend that thought their kid was on the autistic spectrum, and it was like, like three out of the 10 or five, he was like, you look at him like. There’s a really good chance.
Chris Gazdik: Okay.
But because he didn’t hit all the things like, well, no, he just has these personality things.
And that was, to me, that’s great. ’cause a lot of parents, I feel like they do them. Like the kid has four out of the 10 and it’s like, oh, they’re, I think they’re on the dead ringer. It’s like, no, just be be honest with yourself.
Chris Gazdik: It is way more complicated than, than that. You know, it almost
Adam Cloninger: sounds like a cop out to me for the parent side.
Chris Gazdik: What do you mean?
Adam Cloninger: Well, like, oh, well, little Johnny didn’t do good. He’s, oh, excuses. It’s something wrong with him. It’s not me. It’s not me. I didn’t do anything wrong.
Chris Gazdik: There’s a lot of fear about that. Parents don’t wanna look bad. You’re, you’re, you’re onto something there. Pe people, what, how does that reflect on me if I have a, a messed up kid?
Oh my gosh.
Adam Cloninger: Yep.
Chris Gazdik: Like,
Adam Cloninger: but well, no, I meant like, oh, or he’s, something’s wrong with him. So. It’s nothing I do, you’re gonna blame me for, for eating ORs, right? Right. He does something wrong. Wasn’t my fault just because he’s something wrong. Had too many
Chris Gazdik: Oreos [00:37:00] during pregnancy or whatever nonsense people might believe.
Like, yeah. Ugh, too many Oreos. Hey, you gotta be careful about the Oreos, man. I think
Adam Cloninger: diet drinks are worse than Oreos.
Chris Gazdik: Diet drinks are not worse than Oreos. Don’t blow my world up. I,
Adam Cloninger: I don’t agree. I don’t agree with that. I think diet drinks would be worse than Oreos. How’s
Chris Gazdik: that
Adam Cloninger: possible?
Chris Gazdik: Is that possible?
Neil? Yes. Is su su suen that I can’t even pronounce the sweetener. Think Neil, is that bad for you?
Yeah, I, I wholeheartedly agree that if you get something that’s entirely manmade, like the diet sodas and stuff where you, versus something that’s at least partially natural where sugars and fats and stuff like that, it’s a lot different.
Adam Cloninger: Now, I’m not saying, you know, but that’s my take on it. I’m not saying 50 Oreos compared to one diet. Yeah, exactly. Let’s quantify that. But, but a
24 pack of soda, diet soda and a pack of Oreos, you start questioning, is it really good for you? Should I be putting this stuff in my body? It’s just, that’s the question.
And
Adam Cloninger: there’s more and more scientifical [00:38:00] studies is saying that.
Chris Gazdik: Why do I feel like we’re going down another rabbit hole? Can I maybe pull us back?
Adam Cloninger: You can do this next month.
Chris Gazdik: Acceptance paired with cheerleading is so with acceptance, you’re really fully acknowledging a person’s thoughts. You’re acknowledging their feelings, your current reality.
Without trying to to immediately fix something, you’re change something. Like it’s truly difficult to be in a place of acceptance with somebody, but if you only do that, you’re only getting a little bit of a piece. Because if you pair in the cheerleading, encouragement is basically what we’re after. When you accept somebody and encourage them at the same time, it is amazing to be able to incorporate that into a parenting relationship.
Do you know how hard it is for people to accept that they’re accepted? Oh, and do, and do honestly believe that someone’s someone wants the best for them, and that the cheerleading is actually sincere.
Adam Cloninger: Without them wanting something in return
or being [00:39:00] whatever. I’m trying to think of like insecurities. Oh, insecurities.
Yeah. There’s a lot. And I was thinking like, ’cause I’m like, in high school we went in art class and I looked at this girl’s piece of artwork and I said, oh, that’s really cool. And she like snapped at me like, I can’t believe you. Like, do you like, stop making fun of, I’m like, no, I like your piece of artwork.
Like, I’m trying to give you a compliment. And or like somebody that
Adam Cloninger: says, Hey buddy, what do you want? Yeah, exactly. Well, well that’s, that’s
Chris Gazdik: that, that’s the, the, the, the number two of our three questions. Have you ever received encouragement that felt too soon? Or dismissive? Right. So it’s like, yeah, when people are kind of just throwing, you know, junk at you, you know, and you, you have to kind of fully engage in the relationship with somebody so that you don’t have that going on.
And it’s easy. Yeah. It’s easy to fall into that trap. Yeah.
Adam Cloninger: But that’s kind of a, the eye of the beholder of whether it being too soon or not. ’cause I mean, the, if the person’s that’s giving you this encouragement is really sincere in their mind, it’s not too soon. But, you know, if you’re like thinking, okay, there’s some, there’s like a ulterior motive [00:40:00] for this person being like that, then yeah, it seems too soon.
Chris Gazdik: Well, yeah, it, it, it really is in the mind of the beholder. I think what I’m trying to get at is, for instance, you know, we talked a lot about EFT on the show abandon personality stance and a engulfment personality stance. Abandonment pursues jumps out. Golf withdrawals pulls in, right? Like, and government folks generally in patterns in life have great timing.
They think about where is Adam’s head? What’s going on with Adam? If I say this, will he receive it or should I wait? And they have patience to wait for the proper timing on getting the message to you. So if I see that you’re not really ready for. You know, the encouragement or even to be accepted, then we, we’ll stay there first.
Abandonment people. Just have a thought and shoot it out there. And, and don’t think about like how you’re gonna receive it quite so much. ’cause I’m just gonna put it out.
So in golfing people wear better
Chris Gazdik: at that. A hundred percent at that, at [00:41:00] taking action points. Neil, they suck and we rule just pointing that out.
But I, I had someone that went through a hard time and. It’s been months since some stuff’s come up and it’s like, now I feel like I can go up to them and be like, look, I’m proud of what you’ve done. I’m, I’m proud of where you are. You’re doing really good. But had it been, you know, a month into the process they were going through, I think it might’ve been too soon.
Right? And I think it is important to look at it from that standings and, and give them that, that time to go through those pieces. But I think it also goes back to it’s very important to have a strong relationship to do that. So when you do go and you accept them and you say, you know, you’re great at what you, and then you truly them, they actually believe you.
But it has to go back to a solid relationship. You know, talking about your mom. If your mom came up and said, oh yeah, you’re, you’re great and I love your hair, blah, blah, blah, blah. The beard has been
Chris Gazdik: growing amazingly, son, ’cause of
my jeans. No, I’m just right. But, but that’s the thing, right? I used to have long hair, so blah, blah, my hair grows so fast, blah, blah, blah.
[00:42:00] But that’s the thing, right? The relationship isn’t there to really. That you would trust, that they accept you who you are, and that when they cheerlead and they give you positive affirmation after it, you don’t, you wouldn’t believe it. You’d, you’d be suspicious probably if your mom came up and just said, you know, oh, I love the way that you’re blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
Chris Gazdik: Does that fit? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s powerful. I mean, it’s, it’s something that you have to overcome. And I know you’ve kind of done a lot, we’ve talked a lot about that, you know, overcoming that and not allowing that to be in charge. So that you’re right, Aaron. I mean where did Aaron come from? I was thinking about him earlier.
Neil, that Aaron’s my son if, but by the way, he was on my brain. People have a hard time accepting, being accepted. I mean, that’s because of all of these doubts and fears and insecurities and stuff that we put in. So I mentioned DBT earlier. I mean, there’s this duality of cheerleading, encouraging, and then pro providing acceptance is, is a key component of dialect behavioral therapy.
DBT was created [00:43:00] as almost like a direct answer to dealing with something called borderline personality sort. It’s different than narcissism. It’s one that a lot of people get accused of being on as well, self diagnosing and whatnot. It’s, it’s really, really difficult. Emotions, high intensities, not border or not bipolar disorder.
It gets confused with that a lot, but. High highs and low lows, but they’re in the same day. You go way up with a relationship, you go way down. It’s, it’s just, it’s borderline. They’re very difficult. Emotional management, so DBT has a phrase I learned a long time ago. Validate, validate, validate, because these folks are so crushed internally.
My super critical people that they’ve been just, they just don’t know how to, to trust or how to feel comfortable. They, they’re the ultimate example in a lot of ways, Neil, where they can’t accept even that you’re accepting them. And so you have to pair this together to have any way of interacting with folks that are struggling clinically on that deep [00:44:00] level, like borderline folks can struggle a lot.
And so DBT. Literally includes these two together. So where do we land? You know, a really, really cool list, I feel like, of a lot of things to incorporate into, you know, a relationship with people. I don’t know, Neil, I, we can’t cover them all. Use somebody else’s voice. Start, start with the mirroring and then the phrases and hit, hit a, hit a little bit of these just to list them.
Would you be willing to do that?
Sure.
Chris Gazdik: Thank you.
So the, the things that we landed on is like mirror feelings before motivating change. Use phrases like, you know, that that must be so hard and I believe in your. I see how much you’re carrying and I know you’ll find a way forward.
Chris Gazdik: So look at the combination there.
Like that’s, that’s like what we’re trying to do really with the whole idea of pairing these together. You know, those, the phrases are, are interesting. No one talks that way, but we want to try to begin [00:45:00] framing your thinking that way so that you’re really doing this at the same time. And there’s a couple more like that.
Well, I mean, when you look at ’em, ’cause you put yourself in their shoes and then you kind of go through with it. Right? You know, you’ve been doing everything you can. It still feels overwhelming. Of course. You’re tired. This has been nonstop for weeks. Right. See,
Chris Gazdik: there’s like a transition mid-sentence.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You’re saying both actually at the same time with these different domains. I’ll just repeat it. Yeah. You’ve been doing everything you can and it still feels overwhelming. You’re acknowledging you’re, you’re fine the way you are. I accept you, but I’m encouraging it. It’s a validation. And same thing with these other statements.
So good.
Yeah. So another one is you’ve been doing everything you can and Oh no, just read that one. Okay. And even though it’s been hard, I know you’re not the kind of person to give up. You don’t have to have it all figured out today. You just have to keep
Chris Gazdik: going. See, that’s reflective validation. The one before that, you know, was, was using emotional attunement skills.
So there’s [00:46:00] a lot of fancy stuff there. But the cool thing is noticing the way you’re literally, can you imagine saying that reflective validation is a fancy way, but the sentence, just the, the framework to think about how can I accept my wife and encourage her in the same statement when she comes home from work and she is just wicked stressed out.
I’m pissed off if something happened at work and you look and you say, look, you’ve been doing everything you can. I see you, I accept you We’re here. And it still feels overwhelming. You come in with the validation and the encouragement and you just, you sandwich ’em together. It’s, it’s weird to try to learn how to do, but man, when you get into a sweet spot of doing it.
It’s, you end up being in a validating relationship opposite Adam, what you’re talking about. You know that there’s 10 people in your corner, even though nobody else is on the wrestling mat and they’re all like with you. It’s a powerful, powerful reality to not be alone. And the next one after
yeah, the next one is the using anchoring phrases that connect emotion, encouragement.[00:47:00]
So it’s, I hear that you’re scared and I also see your courage showing up.
Chris Gazdik: I love that one.
I like the, see, I was looking at this one. I was like, I like the fact that you say, I hear that you’re scared. ’cause I think a lot of people say like, I know you’re scared, right? I know this. Yeah. There’s a difference there.
Nuance and I about that. ’cause I’m dealing with some, some other stuff and it’s like when you say, I know this or I understand this. It’s hard for people to understand that. ’cause they don’t think you can relate. Right. Even if you’re, if you’ve gone through the same thing, you do that. But when you say, I hear that you’re scared.
That’s different because you’re acknowledging you’re listening to them and it, and it doesn’t, it doesn’t make it seem like you’re trying to diminish what’s going on.
Chris Gazdik: You’re not fixing it either.
Right. Well, that’s hard for, you know,
Chris Gazdik: I would say I realize,
right. It’s
Chris Gazdik: another good way.
Yeah, that’s a good way to say it too.
But yeah, I think, I think that was a very, like I said, it’s a key part in how you describe it, right?
Chris Gazdik: I, it seems like you’re really scared today or whatever. Yeah. It seems like you, I realize that, you know, there’s, there’s multiple ways to accomplish the same thing, but it’s, the idea is really accepting [00:48:00] and then pivoting even in the same sentence with validating.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And, and, and encouraging, I use the word cheerleader in that title because, you know, people kind of understand what cheerleading is as opposed to these really powerful and, and these dynamics with validating and, you know, mirroring and, you know, conveying encouragement rather than just Right. Like, so there’s, there’s nuance to it.
That was my favorite one, Neil, honestly. Yeah. The anchoring phrases. I hear that you’re scared and, and I also see your courage showing up. It’s, it’s, it’s really kind of jumping in there with somebody when they’re in a tough spot. All right. Closing thoughts on that? So we don’t have a whole lot of time left on purpose for what we would’ve spent the whole show on.
I am fearful of, so now I have forced the issue that we’ve got to be somewhat kind of brief, Adam, about episode three 19, artificial intelligence effects with humanity. I know you wanted to be on that show, didn’t you, Adam? We’re [00:49:00] not ready for it.
Adam Cloninger: Humans are not ready, brother. I don’t think Chris is ready.
Chris Gazdik: I. I have a much better sense of what’s coming because I have legit gone down this rabbit hole with YouTube videos and listen to Neil deGrasse Tyson on this thing. Seeing Elon’s real live presentation reading some articles about, you know, chat GPT and large language models. Just remember this, it’s
Adam Cloninger: gonna come to us.
It’s gonna continue to come to us even faster and faster and faster. Accelerate. Absolutely. Yes. It, even if you’re ready now, you’re not gonna be say, say
Chris Gazdik: what it is that you mean by the rapid arc of progression with this. Can you do that?
Adam Cloninger: It’s, it’s almost like compound interest, but it’s like, it’s very much like that at the end of a life cycle.
At the
Chris Gazdik: end of a lifecycle though.
Adam Cloninger: Okay.
Chris Gazdik: What I mean by that is compound interest works amazingly, but it looks like you’re getting nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. You turn 30, very little, very little, very little, but,
Adam Cloninger: but you are getting something the whole time.
Chris Gazdik: You turn [00:50:00] 40 and you get a little more and a little more, and you start feeling it.
But like 50, 52, it’s growing. Everything’s growing on top of the other. It blows up. Meaning you gain $20 a month when you’re 20 and 30 and 40 and all of a sudden you’re gaining, it’s like a snowball. A hundred thousand dollars. It’s 60 years old. It’s a, it’s a
Adam Cloninger: snowball effect. Big time. It just keeps on growing.
Chris Gazdik: And that’s gonna happen with ai? Yeah. How so? Go?
Adam Cloninger: Because as we learn and they learn or it learns, it’s going to grow. On top of that,
Chris Gazdik: it’s a she Adam, it’s my personal friend and I love her. Okay.
Adam Cloninger: I know we did a show on that too. We did do a show on that too.
Chris Gazdik: I can’t agree more that we are not ready for this.
We are not. And even
Adam Cloninger: the people who,
Chris Gazdik: Say they’re are even, we are not even the people
Adam Cloninger: who are ready now, they’re not gonna be ’cause it, like I said, it’s just gonna keep on increasing.
Chris Gazdik: Look, humanity has been around for thousands of years and we have built [00:51:00] into our systems of interaction. All kinds of artistic, humanistic, sociological, nonverbal, verbal interactions that are so psychological.
Our systems are so intertwined with chemicals, neurotransmitters, and hormones. And, you know, all of those things have locked in deep rooted patterns in the way that our amygdala works. And all of this, like, look, it is dynamic what happens in our systems and all of a sudden we are getting a bigger human life change all at once than we’ve ever gotten.
Like it took us hundreds of years and faster and
Adam Cloninger: faster and faster. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You ever seen those, those technology advances, Neil, I know you’ve seen those before, right? Mm-hmm. What are they like, can you, can you point out like,
oh, it’s this, the hockey stick, right? It’s that idea. Have you start small with a small little piece and then [00:52:00] because technology begets to, begets to technology, right?
Use technology to analyze faster to then develop the next thing and then that, that gets better. So then it goes from there. So yeah, compound interest, snowball, whatever you want to use, but basically it just slowly just, just keeps going up, up, up, up, up. Right. And that’s the problem that we’re gonna run into.
You know, it’s, I like the idea of a snowball where you’re looking up the mountain, you see that small snowball, and then from further down it’s like not that big. And then, but it gets bigger. Bigger. And then by the, before you realize you have a 20 foot snowball. Coming down on you. Snowball’s gonna happen a,
Adam Cloninger: a good analogy because it really is, because it’s, as it gets bigger, you got bigger surface area.
So now more stuff sticks to it. So it just, it starts growing at a faster pace. Same thing with this technology. It’s gonna just keep on,
Chris Gazdik: we developed the wheel and then we developed, like, you know, tools and it took us thousands of years to get significant progressives of technology. Thousands of years, hundreds, and then tens of days, and then a day, and then a [00:53:00] minute and a millisecond.
We’re, we’re,
Adam Cloninger: so who’s gonna pay for all the unemployed?
Chris Gazdik: We, we have no idea what’s about to hit us. And it’s, we’ll give those
to AI first.
Chris Gazdik: You know, it, the biggest life change that humanity has ever had has been the computer. And that incorporates things that came from the computer. Such as the internet.
You don’t have the internet if you don’t have computers. And when we get these studies that are going on with quantum computing, we didn’t even talk about that. I, I’ve been down that rabbit hole too. Quantum computing and artificial and intelligence are supposed to meet,
well, all quantum, all, all quantum computing is how fast can I process stuff?
That that’s the whole, that’s the whole point behind it. That’s why we can do AI is because of the processing is getting faster. So when you look at quantum computing, it can just throw in a lot more information and process more information. The, do you know how much more it’s
Adam Cloninger: for quantum computing? [00:54:00] For
Chris Gazdik: quantum computing?
Adam Cloninger: Oh, it’s amazing. The numbers. I don’t even wanna, oh, it’s like instantaneous, like our complete knowledge of everything. Listen.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. This is a cool little FYII think, and I’m curious, it might even be different for you, Neil, you’re the technical guy. You’ve been doing this for years, and Adam, you’re the engineer.
So I don’t know if this is new information, but computers work with bits. Mm-hmm. It’s a simple yes no. Yes. No. Thousand trillions of like, you know, simple on switch off switch ones and zeros. One zero. One zero. Like that. One zero, that’s, that’s all a computer literally is, except for quantum computer don’t work like that.
Quantum computing doesn’t work like that at all. Do you know how it works?
Adam Cloninger: Well, I’m, I’m not gonna pretend I can say I do, but I do know it doesn’t work with just yes or no. It can be, you can have, have multiple answers at the same time instead of just Exactly. It’s a cubit
Chris Gazdik: and a cubit can be on and off at the same time.
And so when a regular computer is doing in calculation, it’s simply like a maze. I [00:55:00] saw this on a show, it a computer in a complicated maze will try that. Try the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. It’ll try every single option until it gets to the one that solves the problem. The quantum computing being to the tra it all at once.
Exactly.
Right. It’s your, it’s your processing threats. That’s the whole thing. When you look at the, the original CPUs and stuff like that, you had one, one single train of thought you had to go and pull your memory out, put that into the CPU process it, what’s going on. I can now it goes to the next. So the quantum, once again, it’s a matter of threads, right?
How many threads can you process at one time? And that’s where the quantum compute all of them. Right? Exactly. All at once. So, but now, and that’s where AI becomes dangerous. It’s not, I. It’s because now it can process so much. That’s why ai, so that’s why AI’s adapted as much is because the backend infrastructure can now handle it.
Now that, and now that it’s learned how to process certain things, it’s storing that information. Then once again, it just builds and builds and builds because the quantum computer gets faster and [00:56:00] faster and faster because it’s already processed parts of it. So now it knows how to do that and then it, it makes itself more efficient and hardware’s
Adam Cloninger: caught up.
Right? And hardware’s catching up. Right. So there’s all those different pieces. So the quantum computing side of it with the hardware and how it processes it with the CPUs and GPU and all, blah, blah, blah. That’s actually a funny presentation. Do you ever see the thing where they talk about how A CPU versus A GPU in a video game, the difference between the two
Adam Cloninger: not seen the video.
So, okay. So if you look at a normal CPU, your normal video card, and I’m probably using the verbiage differently. It has like this thing, we’re shooting one.at a time. It’s making a smiley face, right? Yes. A GPU. Like if you look at a high quality video gaming card, right? Graphics card, it’s the same idea, right?
So CPU do make a smiley face. A GPU is issued all of them at one time, and it makes that picture immediately, right? It’s that, that same difference, that same threading, but it’s because the hardware can handle it. That AI becomes possible. And once again, now that it becomes possible, it builds on itself because it’s learning, it’s adapting, seeing what [00:57:00] works, what doesn’t work.
It’s failing and it’s failing and failing and, and doing it correctly at the same time so it knows where not to go. So you talk about that piece, right? That’s that snowball effect.
Chris Gazdik: It’s terrifying. So
it is terrifying because it knows everything that’s out there. Now I’ve seen some cool stuff where I saw like an, an engine, like a thruster engine.
It’s the craziest looking thing you ever saw. But because of the way the AI did it, it knew all of these different pipes to go a certain way to efficiently do the airflow. And it’s like, you know, a hundred percent more efficient. So that’s the power of it because, because it can do all these things.
Chris Gazdik: And here’s the thing, it is not coming.
It’s here.
Chris Gazdik: It’s now like right now. In real time. Not quantum computing by the way. Just we’re, we’re still trying to figure out how to get the chips to work correctly and they have to be frozen to like absolutely zero, which is crazy. But, but, and the energy required to keep it like there is, that’s why, that’s why these companies around the world that are in the AI sector are buying an individual nuclear power plant for their individual data center.
Like that’s a gigawatt of power. It’s [00:58:00] crazy. And, and just to give you an idea of a regular computer can like process, let’s say like calculating pie, you know what pie is right? Like the 3.14, blah, blah, blah. Right point. Jerry
Apple.
Chris Gazdik: Hey, we did that in tandem. That was nice. Alright. So it, let’s say that there were actually as, as an end to pie.
Okay. I know, but he shakes his head no on the. Version. Let’s say that there’s actually an end to pie and a normal supercomputer. Our current high tech, high, fast, high-paced, best of the best, everything would take how long to calculate a, an insane calculation like this millennia, like millions of years.
The quantum computing capacity is going to do that in five minutes. I mean, that’s, that’s nuts.
Adam Cloninger: Has a bad example.
Chris Gazdik: Why is that a bad example? ’cause
Adam Cloninger: it doesn’t then.
Chris Gazdik: Well, that, no, I use it on purpose. A, a large number that, because here’s my question. What do you put on calculating pie? Which [00:59:00] mathematically you’re correct, Mr.
Engineer, there is no end. I guess it isn’t into infinity, I guess, right? So what does a quantum computer do with calculating pi? How does that end?
Adam Cloninger: But when you use the, when you use the PI symbol in a calculator, just not using 3.14 anyway.
Chris Gazdik: Well, is it not? No. What is it using?
Adam Cloninger: It uses the whole number.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, really?
Adam Cloninger: Yeah. The reason I know that is ’cause there’s calculations we do for geometric dimension and into seeing where if you use 3.14, your tolerance would be different than if you used the actual pie function. Really? Yes.
Well, I mean, another thing to think about when you look at your processing power, like you think about encryption, right?
SSL certificates, encryption for your data, right? You look at the 20 2048 bit type things and, and higher as they get more and more powerful, like the idea is of like, if you were gonna go in and try to guess someone’s password or decrypt it, it’d take years to do it. But these quantum computers, thousands, right?
And for quantum computers, they could go through and decrypt it within minutes, like you said. And [01:00:00] so in that case, there’s a, there’s a solution it’s trying to solve. And because of the power behind it, because what it can process, it can just spit out hundreds of thousands of millions of, of possibilities till it finds, oh, this is the, the 4,000 character bit sequence to decrypt it, right?
Yeah. That’s that same idea, right? It’s.
Chris Gazdik: It’s really wild. So here’s the thing, I, I’m going, we’re gonna talk about artificial intelligence moving forward on the show probably because it’s something that I’ve become very aware of, not for fascinating reasons, not for curiosity or just going down a rabbit hole and mongering fear or whatever.
It’s, it’s, it’s because this is an emotional, a worldwide human humanities emotional event. It, it’s going to affect relationships and jobs identity con constructs and culture of marriage, of just, I don’t [01:01:00] know that there’s anything that we can imagine that is not going to dramatically change oftentimes for the better, but potentially for great struggle.
I don’t know. Does that, does that sound crazy?
Adam Cloninger: No. ’cause I, I’ve often wondered is. Is countries as more developed or less developed gonna be, I don’t wanna say damaged, but influenced by it, because I’m almost thinking that
Chris Gazdik: I wonder if borders end. I know that’s a crazy statement.
Or will they get strengthened because they want that sheer boundary?
I mean, that’s, dunno where it’s gonna go because you know, you talk about the lesser developed countries might be less affected by this because they’re not. Right. They might have less negative impact because they’re not the ones getting contaminated with the AI and it’s not taking over. Right. So it could be this weird idea that the lesser developed countries might have stronger borders.
’cause they don’t want the crazy AI boss to come after them. Right? I mean, seriously.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It’s dramatic. And we, and, and I just, I just want us as a, a, a group [01:02:00] of human beings on this earth to be thoughtful and preparing and try to wrap our heads around, you know, the, the emotion. Realities that we’re about ready to face.
I mean, we got, we do, we make jokes, but we got people falling in love with computers and you know, suicidal ideation is a part of this. And are you really connected or even more isolated? And with ai, what do you do for jobs and work and what is your identity like? There’s a lot of mental health psychology stuff.
I mean, I feel like that’s, we’re in the front line of these things.
Adam Cloninger: There won’t be enough jobs.
Chris Gazdik: You’re right.
Adam Cloninger: There won’t be enough.
Chris Gazdik: We’re not gonna, we’re gonna be a non-working society and
Adam Cloninger: the few people that are working won’t be able to support the ones that aren’t.
Chris Gazdik: It’s,
Adam Cloninger: it’s not gonna happen.
Chris Gazdik: Universal incomes instead of whatever, somebody’s pay that it’s Right.
Who, you know, it’s, this is universal
Adam Cloninger: income. Sounds all great, but somebody has to pay for
it. Well, well, the question is, does, does the AI come in to create the food and stuff and it just applies everything. And then use a Bitcoin type currency that does all those things and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And again,
Chris Gazdik: you might think this is 50 years from now, a [01:03:00] hundred years from now, like the, because of this accelerated arc curve. No, we’re probably like
Adam Cloninger: five years maybe from really, really, really problems.
Chris Gazdik: Yes. That’s what I’m hearing. That’s what I’m learning. So, you know, we got, we got a little runway to get prepared.
You know, I mean, we are smart enough to understand the computer changed our lives around the 1960s, seventies, and humanity had no idea. And this is way more. And so we just, we need to be thoughtful about Everything in your life is going to kind of be different. Can you tolerate change? ’cause it’s coming.
Adam Cloninger: Well, I mean, you know, we’re, we’re producing autonomous vehicles and we have been for a few years now. It’s already running. We talked about, that
was weird. I was in Austin, Texas and there’s like legit taxis up and it’s like, what the heck’s get in a car and there’s nobody in, there’s so
Adam Cloninger: weird, think about 18 wheeler.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Adam Cloninger: They
have those coming out
Adam Cloninger: now. They’re doing, no, they’re doing it now. I’ve been producing ’em for a couple years now.
Chris Gazdik: Couple years they’ve been in production, running on the roads. Now it’s, it’s, it is now people and the emotional [01:04:00] realities are now, so just, we’re gonna get ready. We’re gonna.
Figure this thing out together. The human emotional experience. Adam, how can we take you outta here, man, again, we are winding down your last show. We’re, we’re done, we’re over. How you feeling, man? Whatcha gonna do with your life? What whatcha gonna do when you grow up? But
Adam Cloninger: today I would’ve slept nice because I had to get up from a potential nap to come to the show.
So, oh, I, I
feel touched by that ’cause I know how important naps are to like my wife. So I am Thank you for showing up. Thank you
Chris Gazdik: for showing up. I love naps as well. They are glorious. So thank you for
accepting that. I hear what you’re saying, that naps are important and you are
Chris Gazdik: here by validated. Maybe we’ll have you on as a guest at some point if we need a fill in or something or other.
Yeah. But seriously and truly, once again, it’s been a wonderful work for you. We work with you, figuring it out together. Bye everyone. You’ve added a lot. Bye. Take care. Adam, we’re gonna give you the last words to set off the show. Go. [01:05:00]
Adam Cloninger: I’m just gonna say bye everyone. That’s it. That’s all we gonna get you.
No deep thoughts, no deep thoughts by Adam or anything like that. Chris Gazdik: All right, that fits him. See you next. It does fit him. It does fit him. See you next week. Take care. Be well.