In this episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we dive into the challenge of acceptance—what it really means, why it matters, and how it can transform your mental health and relationships. Too often, acceptance is mistaken for giving up or being passive, but in truth, it’s about acknowledging reality as it is so you can respond with clarity and strength. We explore how acceptance differs from resignation and avoidance, how it reduces anxiety and emotional suffering, and how practices like mindfulness and DBT’s Radical Acceptance can help you face even painful realities without resistance. From daily stressors to major life transitions, we offer practical techniques and insights to help you build resilience, improve decision-making, and find peace in the midst of life’s challenges.
Tune in to see the Challenge of Acceptance Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- When in my life have I resisted reality instead of accepting it, and what impact did that have?
- Do I equate acceptance with giving up, or do I see it as a form of strength?
- How might practicing acceptance improve my mental health and relationships?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.verywellmind.com/acceptance-commitment-therapy-gad-1393175
https://dbtselfhelp.com/radical-acceptance-turning-the-mind
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/selfmanagement
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/mentalhealthtips
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
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Episode #324 Transcription
Chris (00:29) boy. What did you do now, brother? John (00:32) We just hadn't been able to move in yet, so it's keeping us very busy and hurry up and wait. The furniture is supposed to come at 10 o'clock this evening. This evening. Victoria (00:44) tonight. Chris (00:46) this evening. dude! John (00:50) Yeah. Chris (00:52) Are they gonna be working through the night to set you up or what are we doing there? John (00:55) I hope so. I I I they said, are you sure you don't? Do you want to do it tonight? I yes. It's really good. They're only a week late. They're only a week late. Chris (01:01) ⁓ He is ready. if you're joining us, we're having a little bit of a reunion. If you followed the show concept this month, we started with grief. And then that was because we got sudden news that John was entering into a major transition moving from in office here in the Charlotte area, he's moved down to Florida. And so we transitioned to a show dealing with life. John (01:09) Yeah. Chris (01:30) transitions and tonight we're going to be talking about the challenge of acceptance. So John, this has been triggered by your move, the whole emotional process that our unit, our team has been going through, man. John (01:44) Well, I'm glad I get to be a part of that process of not only grieving for you and not only transitioning to a new place and the change, but now acceptance into a reality that we're having to deal with aging parents and very, aging John. And so, Chris (01:54) Yep. ⁓ So we got lots of topics we could do for you, I guess, Victoria (02:04) Thank John (02:08) We're doing that. So thank you. Chris (02:11) That's quite the sandwich generation, right? Dealing with yourself and then the aging parents. John (02:14) Yeah. Right. you know, I made an illustration about Seinfeld. There was a Seinfeld where the parents kept everything really hot in their house. And I've got to tell you something. It was like an oven in the house. Chris (02:28) Thank In Florida, in the house. You poor thing. I go visit my poor mother. I love her dearly. She's in memory care. She's in a facility. I go up there on Sundays usually. And I go up there and these people are always cold. And I'm like, how can you be cold in the middle of August in Charlotte? Like it's just nuts. John (02:50) My mother wear and my father wear sweaters and the temperature is 80 degrees. Chris (02:56) Yeah. Victoria (02:57) and more? Chris (02:59) in Florida. John (03:00) in Florida. Victoria (03:01) Well, I already have these cute sweaters for fall and I keep getting mad that I want to wear them in the morning and then it's not cool enough. John (03:04) I'm sorry. Yeah. Neil (03:09) Okay, hang on guys stop I do have to hit go live Chris (03:15) So we need to restart. Neil (03:17) Yeah, I cuz I started it so what it does is it starts the stream make sure everything's good with YouTube and then I still have to hit the go live button cuz I forgot about that piece so let me I'm gonna are we ready to are we good then Chris (03:25) Alright We'll redo. John (03:29) Whoopie. Victoria (03:31) Glad you caught it early, Neil. Neil (03:32) That could have been embarrassing. Alright Chris, we are going live in 3, 2, Chris (03:38) Alright, Neil tells me we are live. We are live on a new platform after having gone through some major transitions. So we are actually restarting. We've done a little bit of reconnecting with Mr. John Pope, who happens to be back with us, brother. How are you down there in Florida? Victoria (03:53) No. John (03:53) I'm doing quite well. It's quite hot. But I'm glad to be here. Chris (04:01) So I'm Chris Gazdick and this is Miss Victoria Pendergrass hanging out with us as well. All right, so this is August the 21st. We're doing a show on acceptance. So if you've been following our program and stuff, you'll find that this month we have, you know, been coping, dealing, managing our own emotions with a sudden news that John had to move. He went back home in a rather epic and beautiful fashion to Be in Florida where you are from. Bradenton, Florida, John (04:31) Brington, Florida, home of the Pirates. Chris (04:33) Yes, the preseason pirate games I have pledged to come see you for. John (04:38) That's right. We've got bedrooms. You too. Okay. Victoria (04:38) Amy, we're doing a road ⁓ trip. Chris (04:42) You can come, Victoria. We'll do a road trip. Maybe we'll do live show, but we can't all sit in the closet with you, What did you do to get into the dog house, man? He's sitting in his closet. John (04:50) No, no, I'm in trouble. I'm in the dog house. Because somehow I'm supposed to have had the move happen already and they still have our furniture. So they're supposed to come in at 10 o'clock tonight and unload. ⁓ Chris (05:09) Yeah, we were just shocked about their doing this. What are they gonna do? So are they gonna unload stuff and everything and unpack it and all? I mean, what you gonna be up all night? John (05:14) Yeah, yeah, they're going to unpack it and all of that. I'm good. And you know what? My wife and I are good with that because they are about four or five days late. Chris (05:27) gosh, man, that's just brutal. John (05:30) Four or five days late, we've been living in all the suitcases and staying with my parents. again, that's so. Part yes, yes, I'm already 19 again or 17 and want to get out, yeah. Victoria (05:33) Thank Chris (05:39) it if you feel like you're five years old all over again So if you've been following the concept of our show this week, we started out talking about grief and loss as we're coping with all of our feelings, losing John's presence in the office. Uh, we then transitioned Victoria and I talked about life transitions and today we're going to be talking about the challenge of acceptance. is episode three, 24. gosh, John, I just want to kind of stay and reconnect with you. Like, you know, the show be darned, man. Let's just. Victoria (06:07) my gosh, really? Chris (06:13) Let's just kind of work it out, man. I missed you this week. I don't have anybody singing the song to Victoria. I don't have anybody, you know, kind of groving through the hallway, floating in and floating out. Victoria and I are lost, John (06:16) Obviously. Yeah. Okay, sorry about that, guys. I'm just, yeah, guys gotta do what he's gotta do. It has been, it's been a very stressful week, a week and a half. And so I've missed you guys very much. I've been keeping in touch with Chris because you have very much texted me and emailed me and. Victoria (06:31) yeah, for sure. John (06:48) and it got me set up so that I can do the HIPAA notes. yeah, So I'm finally learning how to code it right as well. That took me a while. Chris (06:54) yes, all the charting, all the behind the scenes through a therapist's eyes. Victoria (07:00) considerably. Chris (07:05) Again, you're back to a 19 year old. We got to you doing your progress notes. Oh man, that's awesome. All right, well we should probably jump in. Let's get going here. The three questions that we got here today is the challenge of acceptance, right? So when my life, when in your life have you resisted reality rather than accepting it and what impact did that have? We're curious about how do you equate acceptance John (07:08) Yeah, because we learn everything. So, yeah. Mm-hmm. Chris (07:31) Is it equated with giving up or do you see it as a form of strength? And then how might practicing acceptance improve your mental health and relationships? So those are the questions that we're going to do here on through a therapist. If you're finding us for the first time, it's a little bit of an odd show as I've already explained, or a kind of reconnecting. We're on a new platform. We're trying some new things out since John's in Florida. Know that this is the delivery of insights from a panel of therapists in your home or in your car, knowing it's not to delivery therapy services in any way. I'm actually going to do a little bit of a reading from the book. John, I got the book out. Remember the title? Through a therapist's eyes. John (08:04) Marriage? Chris (08:05) Re understanding your emotions and be Re understanding your emotions and becoming your best self and the other one is on marriage But this is you find us on Spotify Apple podcasts John we tried our best Victoria was making sure that everyone knew you wanted us to have five stars I think that we got five stars last week Yeah, I think we did I think we actually got five stars Victoria, would you agree? John (08:10) So that's the first point. Cheers. Great. Victoria (08:29) I think we did a great job. John (08:32) I know you did. I know you did. Chris (08:34) Contact it through a therapist eyes.com is a great way to interact with us We do this on YouTube so we usually click in live about you know after 6 o'clock 6 15 to 6 30 it's great way to interact with us and You know talk with us as you know through the show or the email This is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together Let's see. What are we? What are we doing here? John? How are you doing with the emotions Victoria? How do you doing with the emotions the transitioning with life? transitions and grief and loss dealing with change and today acceptance. mean, let me just take a real live through a therapist. I just check in on our emotions. Victoria (09:10) Currently like right this moment. ⁓ I mean, I'm good. I had a busy day today. I had four new people today Which is a lot of it, but it was great. They were all great and I do want to a feeling to it or I'm feeling content Chris (09:13) I think so. John (09:13) Thank Chris (09:21) That's a lot. John (09:21) Fantastic. It's great. Chris (09:31) Whatever comes to you, I guess. Gotcha. I'm actually really kinda happy right now just to see John and hang out with you, man. Seriously, it's a good feeling. It really is. John (09:43) Yeah, are you dazzled by my bald dome and still get all the sun? Yeah. Chris (09:46) No, I'm kind of distracted by the closet to be honest with you. We gotta get your office Victoria (09:49) Yeah. Chris (09:50) set up tonight. John (09:53) Yeah, you know, I feel I'm actually feeling a couple of things, one of which was that despite all the encumbrances and all the barriers about moving that go on and worry about money and those sort of things, because you think, well, I know we have enough, but at the same time, you know, we can't just keep doing what we've been doing. been able to also with the clients. And that has been a real anchor and root for, yeah, it's been an anchor for me because. Chris (10:26) You know, just to jump in on that, John, I don't, I don't think people really kind of understand that. Of course we're, we're our own people. I therapists have our own experience and doing this work that we do is, mean, I'm so honored to do the work that we do. And it really does have effects like that. You know, if you've got something going on, it's kind of like, all right, I can jump into familiarity. I could do the therapy thing. And you know, we, we, that does, that sort of anchors us. I like that word. John (10:51) It does and I think that's the closest I can see about this move was like the move. That my family took when we went to the Philippines when I was in the Navy. This was over 30 some years ago and everything was new and everything was up in the air. And I was a Navy chaplain at the time and as soon as I went to. to the chapel and preach the sermon, I was home. I feel the same way about my clients. As soon as I sit down, I was sitting on a foot stool and hurt my back and all of that, and yet listening and sharing and hearing their clients that are making themselves vulnerable. Chris (11:24) wow, yeah. John (11:43) It was comforting. Not, you know, to be able to help them, but also to be present with them. It wasn't like I had left. Chris (11:53) Well, you know, I think that that does that interestingly creates a point for the show today of acceptance. You know, I think there's a very important reality of familiarity. I think through this month, we've shared different experiences. It brings me back to when I moved, I moved out of West Virginia for the first time. I was a newlywed person at the time and I had my first post-graduate job all at once. And I just really needed to, to go, as a matter of fact, you missed it, John. Uh, I really needed to go back to West Virginia just to reconnect with the familiarity, but I, but I played, jammed the song from Chowabonga. Neil corrected me. I'm probably saying it wrong, but I remember that song was like, get knocked down and I get up again and you're never going to keep me down. And it's, that's like the, that's the jam that it was, it was, it was so fulfilling to my soul. It was like, yeah, you know, I got this. I'm going back home and the rest is the rest is history. John (12:30) Choppa Lapa. Victoria (12:37) I don't know what to do. John (12:38) Yeah, yeah, that definitely is. So a drinking song, a drinking song. Chris (12:51) Well, I was driving. I was driving. I didn't quite have the drink going on, at least at that point. ⁓ John (12:56) I get up again. Chris (12:59) And you're never gonna keep me down. So we do have, by the way, not to be remiss, we're just a little excited to see John. I want to announce that we have Daris Payne, an LMSW, which is a licensed master social worker. So we got a new YouTube subscriber. Mr. Daris Payne. Yeah, Victoria, you gotta do your clicks. Snaps. You can't snap, John. Victoria (13:17) Snaps, nicks, snaps. John (13:21) No, I authorize it in this hand. Chris (13:25) man. Okay. Well, you know, I, know we're, I know we're a little distracted because our team is a little excited. We're going to, we're going to get in and roll like we normally do, but, Darius, it's nice to have you aboard. We're, looking for YouTube subscribers. So your job, really is to tell your friends to refer an episode. It works really well. If you hit that share button and then you click and text somebody, they're more likely to listen to one of our shows. So we try to give you hopefully a little bit of entertainment. We definitely want to dispel myths and stereotypes about mental health and disseminate information as best we can. help us with that. Victoria (13:25) Bye. Chris (13:54) Whoa, whoa, what'd do? Victoria (14:01) Whoa, whoa, whoa. You didn't do any of your intro stuff. Chris (14:07) Yeah, I did. John (14:08) Yes he did. Chris (14:09) I sure did. This is the human emotional experience which we endeavored to figure out together. I think that, yeah, I did all that stuff. Maybe we chatted and vibed and jammed. You were writing something with your highlighter there, Victoria, I gotta say. Victoria (14:10) You just like- No, that was when, whoa. Are you sure? Because we did the first part and then we had to redo and then you didn't do. Chris (14:30) good gosh, okay, I'm gonna jump in and say if you haven't heard the full intro listen to another show and we'll do it next time as well. How about that? John (14:35) next video. Victoria (14:35) Well, I meant the whole, this is not a delivery of therapy services. I'm very strict about that. Chris (14:39) She's always worried about that guys. Very important, very important. So thank you for bringing that up. All right, listen, defining acceptance. Seriously and truly, how do people do you think experience it when clients are making a major change and things are kind of going on in their life, things seem upside down. It seems like a simple concept, but this is a really, thus the title, it's a real challenge. Particularly when you have things that change. Victoria (14:45) you Chris (15:05) and things that are really uprooted in your life. You know, the theme kind of this month has been John, but it's also been a lot of families, at least in the States. And I assume kind of around the world, you have similar types of things where all the kids are going to school and you got high school kids graduating. got, you know, families that have their kids being sent off to university. say around the world, we just call it college. You know, so kids are going to college and, major change or divorce and separation and deaths. mean, You know, you have things that you don't choose to happen and change in your life. You know, how difficult do you guys experience clients struggling with this whole acceptance thing? Simple concept, hard to do, I suspect. John (15:48) Yeah. Victoria (15:49) Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's we see I mean at least for me I see it all the time hell I even saw it several times today. So I mean, yeah, I think it's definitely it might like you said it might seem like a simple concept, but there's a lot more layers to it than just Okay, I accept this, you know for this thing happened and let's move on with my life kind of thing John (16:13) I'm too, I've got to, working with my clients sometimes, there are some clients that are in a grieving process of things that may have happened 50, even 60 years ago. It also is the trend in having to make transitions and not wanting and being resistant to that transition. And then kind of almost like, shaking their fist at the heavens and say, well, I'm not going to change. I'm not going to accept this new situation. And I'm thinking about people that perhaps as they get older receiving more care, for example, and losing some of their independence. And so that's a transition, but it's also an acceptance. And I know, Chris, you talked about your mom and Chris (17:06) See you again. right? John (17:12) that struggle and I'm looking at my dad and my mom who have been very active and now they are confined basically to their house. Chris (17:22) Yeah, yeah, I'm having a hard time accepting my mom. I go have conversations with my mom these days and it's, you know, it progresses. And I mean, I was just talking to my stepdad, you know, it's like, you know, I want to talk to her about real things, you know, real things that are going on in my life and things that are important. And, you know, she's just more and more becoming incapable of doing that. It really sucks. It's hard to be in a place of acceptance of that. You know, it really is. John (17:47) So it works in both ways, it works with the parent and also the child and the adult child and the middle aged child. Victoria (17:47) Steps not fun. Chris (17:53) yeah. You know, our shows sort of, you know, play off of each other in how we cope. And I think that we find a way to get through these things, you know, but it just happens all the time. I mean, little ways and big ways, you know, like we said, deaths, divorces, you know, care for the elderly, graduation of college students. mean, we have this stuff. We're not a... We're not at a minimum of examples, right? It was just a plethora of ways this happens. John (18:25) We've got health issues. another thing, let's say individually, it was in a family or individually, you have health issues and you, one day you're fine or you thought you were fine and the next day you find out that you have something that is, you might have to undergo chemotherapy or. Victoria (18:41) Thank you. John (18:47) Some sort of a new therapy or something of that sort, and you might end up having to get a bone marrow transplant. And how did that happen stem cell? You know, that's that sort of thing. Yeah. Chris (18:59) or even just having the flu. Like I don't accept that very well. I tend to just try to push through and just do normal and you know if you're accepting it you're not fighting it you take care of your body even when simple things you know. John (19:11) Yeah, I didn't do well with COVID. Chris (19:14) man, I'm still not accepting that. mean, know, acceptance is acknowledging reality as it is without judgments or resistance. And that is really, you know, some internal space. I mean, we all have, you know, judgment. We all have tendencies to avoid. We all have tendencies to minimize and compartmentalize and do all of these things. And so when you're really in a state of acceptance, you're acknowledging the reality is right now. John (19:29) Would you restate that acceptance? Can you restate that definition of acceptance? I liked it. Chris (19:40) acknowledging reality as it is without judgment or resistance. John (19:45) Whoa. Okay. Chris (19:47) Yeah. mean, it, you know, it's a simple idea to just accept the changes, but very complex when you get into the emotions of it. You know, we, we, we have a hard time distinguishing. Oftentimes people think of, if I accept this, I have to have a resignation about it. Or, you know, it, it, it, it, it disables you. It, it's all bad and it, it really isn't, you know, even, even as I, you know, process separation divorce, for instance, kind of like. John (19:55) . Victoria (20:02) We'll right back. Chris (20:13) Wait a minute, there's some really cool things about this, but you know, do you tend to, you know, where's your focus point? You tend to focus on mom's in a facility and she's not at home. you, you focus on John's not in the office or we get to keep John working with him. You know, it's like, there's, there isn't necessarily a sense of resignation. It, it is it's accepting reality as it is not judging it, not having resistance to it, not fighting. Victoria (20:28) Yeah. Chris (20:39) and getting into a place of serenity and peace with things. It's hard. John (20:43) So, serenity is a key word, isn't it? Yeah. Chris (20:46) yeah. John (20:46) Because I guess I struggle with resignation because I feel like. You know, but I'm resigned to this, but you're using it differently. Chris (20:58) Yeah, it isn't, I mean, we still have agency, we still have an influence in our life and whatnot, and I think that we tend to forget that. And again, it comes down to what are we focusing on? How do we engage the reality that is around us? John (21:06) But Victoria (21:12) I would agree. John (21:13) When you have clients, I'm sorry, when you have clients that are, Chris, and I'm doing a lot more asking questions today, they don't want to accept the change. They struggle with that and they rebel and it's almost like they're, because you were talking about me being Chris (21:21) Hey, we got you, brother. Victoria (21:22) Yeah, it's fair. Chris (21:29) Nobody does. Victoria (21:31) Yeah. Chris (21:34) fight John (21:39) a teenager again at my parents house and they keep it too damn hot in there. But, but, about that. Chris (21:47) He even got a curse word Victoria in there. You're fine. John, whatever you need, brother, ⁓ if we gotta mark this episode as explicit, we'll do that. John (21:53) So thank you. Okay. Well, that's my mild explicit, but that's still, you know, it's, it's, it's, it seems to me that, that it's almost like. You can see it, your step as a therapist, you can see it where they can go, but they can't see it. They can't yet imagine it. Does Victoria, does that resonate with you? Victoria (22:20) Yeah, I see that all the time. where, yeah, you see, you see the potential and like the like future success or the ability for your clients to be able to do something or like work towards acceptance and they're just like so resistant to it or they just like can't see the neon flashing sign in front of their face. John (22:40) Yeah. Chris (22:43) You know, that brings up an interesting thought in my brain, just listening to you guys. You what about the charge or challenge of accepting a change when you might not even know something changed? Victoria (22:43) No. Mmm, yeah. Yeah, and people are probably like, well, how am I supposed to accept it if I don't know what's happening? Chris (22:56) Right? And that might sound weird listening, but I mean, there's sometimes things shift in relationships or experiences and you're kind of like in mid change. I mean, that's, it's a weird space to be in. I don't think we have time to go into that, but just a honorable mention there because sometimes change is happening. You don't know it. John (23:04) it. Victoria (23:19) Thanks. Chris (23:20) Listen, I thought that what I wanted to do this episode is actually a Chapter 11 from the book. I actually want to read it. I don't do it very often, but I think this is a really cool chapter. It's a little bit of a longer chapter, but I've read it in sessions before, and I think it's absolutely right on point with this idea of fighting change. Would you guys allow me that? John (23:41) Certainly. Please go. Victoria (23:41) Go for it. Chris (23:42) Yep. So this is chapter 11 of through therapist eyes, re-understanding your emotions and becoming your best self. Real therapy moments that I correlate into like a little explanation and go into. I use it in therapy sessions. Like I said, the chapter 11 is accepting things as part of your emotional growth. I must give credit where credit is due. So to speak, this is my reckon. This is this recommendation is not my quote, but rather a leases the following thoughts supporting this concept are mine. But Lisa made this statement a while back and has triggered an idea to include it in this book because it's full of wisdom. It's spot on. Do, accept limitations, events, and characteristics. Don't, resist, and fight against what is true. So why is people cite the three A's? Awareness, acceptance, and action. This is a recipe for moving forward in life from those things which we struggle. Let's initially tackle the first of the third of the A's. Awareness can be hard. The antithesis awareness is denial, which can be easily misunderstood. Denial is not the rejection of truth, but rather an inability to see in ourselves that which is true. Alcoholics often struggle with denial. Someone who struggles with alcohol abuse is typically convinced that he or she is not an alcoholic when those around him or her can clearly see the truth. It happens to many of us in other ways as well. An individual might not realize he is or she is the victim of sexual emotional abuse, even though they are living in this unsafe environment. People can be negatively affected by traumatic events, but when they encounter them regularly as part of their jobs or lives, they can be unaware of the chronic, harmful effects of trauma causes them. So how do we create awareness and take action? Both are served well by listening to other people and the feedback they're brave enough to offer us. Often we need an objective person, one who is outside of our own head, speaking truth to us to become aware of something. My wife has the ability to help me understand when I am emotional about something and I don't even realize it. Regarding action, A's with awareness, it may take an objective and trusted friend or partner to help us decide how and what action to take. If we develop our willingness to take action, we'll find the appropriate action to take. If we struggle to know what to do, we can always ask, sometimes many people. The more confident we become as we build validation around our actionable choices, the easier they are to take. I saved the second A for last because I want to focus on acceptance the most. Thus, the show title, right? That's not in the book, but... John (26:02) the right. Chris (26:04) I add that. Right? I believe that it's the hardest of the three to gain. We're all fighters by nature in one way or another. We're geared to fight to survive. Our brains are designed to diagnose a threat and the amygdala, the part of our brain that creates what you might recall as the fight or flight or freeze system gets triggered. The system is a primal and powerful part of our brains. It's the ultimate form of resistance. We're designed to fight and kill whatever the threat might be or flee. John (26:31) Thanks. Chris (26:32) in all haste if necessary. Resistance is a part of our human experience and often can be good, but when we resist something that is true or factual or emotionally factual, it does not serve us well. We must guard against telling ourselves, wow, that didn't just happen, or I'm not that type of person. Too many of us lie to ourselves. If it happened, it happened. If it's part of you, it's your story, and it's part of your experience. When we become aware of something about ourselves we don't like, we must work to accept it and take action to overcome it. I remember an event as a teenager that many others have experienced too. I was driving home on a dangerous ice covered road. This lady's, this girl's name was Angie, by the way. Not in a book. That's just a bonus. I was driving home in a dangerous ice covered road. was angry and hurt by a girl whom I learned was not interested in me. I had given her a necklace. I found it earlier that night, but I do digress. She gave me the friendship speech. I was driving away too fast around a corner. When I felt the car give way in a slow motion, I over-corrected the car and it spun 360 degrees before it ramped backward down a steep bank. When the car came to a sudden stop, I sat there for what seemed like an hour as I listened to the song which was playing on the radio. All I could think was, that did not just happen. Thankfully, the vehicle was not totaled and I was safe, but obviously I needed to accept that it did happen and get out of the car. I made it home that night via a kind stranger who gave me a ride. The next day I went about doing the necessary tasks to resolve it. with a toe and a paying for a costly repair. Suddenly managing all three A's leads us to emotional growth we strive to achieve. We mustn't allow a lack of acceptance to stunt our emotional growth. As we become hostile or argumentative with our spouses, kids, family members, bosses, coworkers, and friends, it may be we are actually fighting the truth ourselves. Fighting can be useful, but fighting against the truth is not. When we discover a problem, we must learn to stop. Simply stop and accept whatever it is. accept anything really. When we stay on our fighting stances, we are resolved to remain in denial. Resistance needs to stop. Call things what they are. If you've been hurt by something, then accept the hurt and work to take action. If you have a painful event, don't lie to yourself and say it didn't happen. Guilt or shame results from denial, and people can live a lifetime carrying those burdens. If something is in a certain way and we don't like it, we can still accept it and see if we can change it. Then we'll be able to move on. Attempting to control things we can't really control leaves us feeling helpless and frustrated. We can sense when we've let go of our resistance because a certain calm seems to envelop us when the shock of the awareness fades away. Things may not sit easily, but when we do sit with them and acceptance is achieved, we can take action to work through the event and come to a conclusion. Acceptance can be hardest of the three A's, but ultimately it's the most rewarding. John (29:24) Excellent chapter. Victoria (29:25) Yeah, that's it. Chris (29:27) It's the reason why I wanted to read the whole thing because I mean it, feel like it just goes right to the heart into what it is that we're talking about today. Victoria (29:35) Yeah. John (29:37) You know, I'm wondering because I'm reflecting on what you said because both Chris, you and me, and I think Victoria as well, but when we work with people with substance use disorders or alcohol use disorders, it can be challenging and they struggle so much with the concept of acceptance and action and all that. But it really Chris (30:00) you John (30:04) You know, once you see that really post that recovery growth that occurs in their lives and it's it comes with the acceptance that you so aptly described. It it just you feel like you're very privileged to be in their lives to be able to. Yeah, I do too. And because I think. Chris (30:23) man, I love working with the recovering community. It's so full of humility and the grace and power of acceptance that leads to that word you said before, serenity. John (30:33) Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I think people struggle. They struggle so hard. They camp against the bridle so much that they get off track or they end up like you did spinning in a 360. Yeah, literally, they spin. Chris (30:58) ⁓ literally. John (31:01) Thank you for sharing that. Chris (31:03) Absolutely. I'm glad that it hopefully can resonate. What's that, Victoria? Victoria (31:08) I feel like you've read a part of that chapter on the podcast before I remember the 3a thing Chris (31:14) It's very possible because I think that particular chapter for some reason it does stick in my head and I will go to that one a lot because you know it affects so many so often. John (31:23) Thank Victoria (31:25) Right, yeah. I mean, maybe not right, but yeah, that's a chapter. Chris (31:29) Yeah, well thank you. mean, the whole thing about acceptance is it really does. It reduces anxiety, it reduces rumination, it reduces emotional suffering. everything seems clearer and, you know, able to be managed and handled and not so overwhelming. I mean, when you're fighting, it's just, it's crushing. John (31:29) ⁓ It's been five years. Yeah. Victoria (31:47) Well, and I think that and we may get to part of this later, but like I think a lot of people are afraid that if they do accept that like are accepting it makes it real. And so then like they're afraid of then what comes after that and I'm like, well, yeah, makes it real. But then you can like deal with it and figure it out and move on with your life and not have it be this thing that like weighs you down. Chris (31:58) Yeah. John (32:12) You mean trans transition in life? So yeah, even but. Victoria (32:18) Basically. Chris (32:19) John, can you say that word again? Transitions. Yes. They are tough and there's a lot of misunderstandings about it. Like I said before, think, know, the myth that acceptance means you're giving up or you're being passive. You know, we really want to be tough, you know, pull my big girl pants up on or be a tough dude that doesn't let anything mess with us. you know, look, accepting something is not being passive. Can we blow that myth up? John (32:21) Transition in life. Transitions. Yes. Victoria (32:47) yeah. John (32:47) Yeah. Chris (32:49) Right? It's it's. Victoria (32:50) A lot of it's actually, I mean, it's quite the opposite. Chris (32:54) How so? I couldn't agree more. Victoria (32:55) I mean, I just think that it means either, I mean, it means things like setting boundaries or, you know, sticking up for yourself or, you know, actually like letting that part stay in the past in your life and not continue to like follow you on or whatever. John (33:16) courage to change. Chris (33:18) second line in the serenity prayer I recognize. John (33:21) Right. Victoria (33:21) Yep. John (33:21) So it can be scary to change and not to be so rigid and reified is a good word, a means, unyielding. And sometimes it's okay just to say, it's not what it was before and you accept a new reality. And then you actually have a new opportunity to make a new life. It may be, let's say you get fired or you get accused of something that you didn't do or you, let's say divorce happens and you could go down that rabbit hole and just say, okay, you do the navel gazing and say, well, all these things that I've done wrong and. You know, I regret this and regret that. But then you get stuck. But if you do accept that change, you're able to get unstuck and you're able to make new life and new experiences. Chris (34:28) And know, John, interesting, you know, if you don't mind, I think we can use your experience because there's an element too that change has to happen, you know, as, you know, in order for us to accept it. And it's almost impossible to do that before. In that context, I would argue you can't be in a place of acceptance fully yet of even your move, can you? I mean, you're like in a literal present state of not having furniture. John (34:36) Yeah. No. Victoria (34:51) limbo. John (34:53) Okay. Chris (34:54) not having your bed to lay in. You're in a closet doing a podcast. You don't have your office. It's like, how can you be in a place of acceptance? Sometimes you can get ahead of the process, right? John (34:57) Thank Yeah, that's right. My wife and I had to go through the process of laying down in the primary bedroom or the master bedroom and we had a dog bed and that's all we had and we just laid down and lay our heads down on the dog bed and just went to sleep for about a half hour. it is and you know what my wife said? She said, Chris (35:19) man man, that's kind of beautiful though. What'd say? John (35:34) I've spent more time with you today than I have in a long time and spent hours down. So it gave me a new opportunity and her attitude has really changed in the last two or three days. Just total acceptance of saying, okay, it is what it is and making the best of it. Not having furniture, not having her pots and pans and not having Chris (35:40) ⁓ man, I love that. John (36:04) You know, the things that normally would give her comfort. And so she's got her Kindle and she reading and. She's let me use a wheelchair to sit in and talk to you all right now. So. So, yeah, she's. Chris (36:20) Yeah, I mean, John, it's beautiful. And thank you so much for sharing because I mean, you're, you're, you're in the thick of it. You're in the middle of it. And, and I think that, you know, people don't understand themselves in the middle of it. And, and, and people are really hard on themselves when they think they should be a certain way. know I am. Victoria and I talked about that last week. I'm, you know, dealing with a life transition as a therapist, you know, not just as a therapist, just as a person I want, I expect. John (36:34) Okay. Chris (36:49) I'm probably too hard on myself to really be okay in the middle of change. But you can be. It's those peaceful moments. It's, mean, laying on the floor with nothing else in the house but a dog bed resting your head, spending time with joy. I mean, that's just beautiful. John (36:50) Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think the dog beds more comfortable than the bed I slept in my parents house. I'm not accepting that. Chris (37:10) Victoria are you getting the theme that he's done being at his parents house? Can you hear that coming through? Victoria (37:14) Yeah, for sure. That was clear. Chris (37:17) but better things are coming and the things that are right in front of us often times are beautiful too we just don't recognize them in the pain point that we're in John (37:22) Yeah, we don't write anything, is it? Yeah. I think that's the blessing is you can see it. The blessing is you can see it in retrospect, but what a blessing it is to see it when you're in the midst of it. And I've that change. Chris (37:43) And I think truly grounded people, people that can be in a mindfulness state while going through life transitions as we talked about last week, even when grieving the loss that happens as we talked about the week before that, and to be in a place of acceptance. Yeah, the change hasn't happened, but you can get elements of that even in the middle and have sense of serenity about that. Right? John (38:10) I think you're right. Victoria (38:12) Ready? Chris (38:13) Senior, there's a program called Dialectual Behavioral Therapy. Anybody know anything about radical acceptance? John (38:19) Yes. Victoria (38:20) Yep. Chris (38:21) Victoria, you're smiling. What is your understanding of radical acceptance as a component of DBT? Victoria (38:28) Well, it's, I, this should be more fresher on my cause I literally just did this with someone. John (38:33) It's all for you. Chris (38:33) You seem tired tonight girl, you okay over there? ⁓ Victoria (38:35) I mean, it's basically like kind of what it sounds like. It's like, like this really intense thing of like, John (38:44) It's self-soothing, isn't it? I mean, in a sense, yeah. It's unconditional positive regard for yourself. That's a Corey of, not a Corey, but a Rogers face, unconditional positive regard. But you do it for yourself. And a lot of times it's folks that perhaps are dealing with a personality issue. Victoria (38:55) Yeah, that's a good one. John (39:08) which would be about a borderline personality disorder. And so often their feelings are on their outside. They don't have the sense of boundaries and a sense of who they are. But if they can engage in radical self-acceptance, that's where they actually get some purchase for themselves. They actually have a sense, develop a sense of themselves. Chris (39:12) Mm-hmm. The key part is radical. You know, I'm not a big DB tier, but I've used a lot of this stuff sort of in my natural work. But this is if we layer in a little bit on this specific thing, this core skill and DBT, you know, is is fully accepting as it is without fighting it, even if it's painful, it's a radical concept. Because when you have borderline personality disorder or strained emotions, even just say. John (39:37) Okay. Okay. Chris (40:03) You again, like I wrote about in that chapter book, you want to fight. I mean, you want to battle. Let me resist what's happening because I don't like it sometimes, right? And you'll bang your head against the wall. John (40:10) That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. And sometimes the best thing, the hardest thing, but also in a way that the one that takes the least skin out off of you is to be able just to accept it. And then you don't run up against the brick wall over and over again. don't fall into the, you don't do the same. Victoria (40:25) you John (40:42) Darn thing over and over again. And I watched my language this time, Victoria. but you. So, what is that? What you guys think or is the experience? Chris (40:48) You go, man. We'll already knock it explicit. No, absolutely. mean, the key principles really are what we've been talking about and not denying something. You mentioned alcoholism, man. That is a big state to overcome. As a matter of fact, traditional substance abuse therapists will battle with the client. They get really aggressive and fighting through what we call denial, which is actually an inability to see the problem. And it's all about really working with people radically to accept something that is because if you don't, John (41:22) You Chris (41:28) then you're already fighting what is and that's actually what creates the suffering. The change itself usually does not, but fighting against that change usually is what creates, would you say, a big majority or a high percentage of that suffering through transitions. John (41:42) right. So what I'm hearing from you is that a lot of times the suffering is... I don't want to say unwarranted, but it's something that doesn't have to happen. We do suffer as human beings. think that's part of what separates us from our other creatures. But there is this unnecessary needless suffering that we put ourselves through. there was an illustration of two rams. And I read this in a book. Chris (41:56) Yes. John (42:20) somewhere, and I think it was from a long time ago, but it was in a novel, but the author described two, he came upon two rams battling on a mountainside and literally breaking their brains out, busting their brains and knocking their brains out. And I'm just thinking that's what we do. You know, we're. And that takes away your energy to be able to be creative and try something outside, change metaphors outside the box. Chris (42:55) You know, it's exhausting and this is something that I personally struggle with a lot. I, you know, I usually say like, you know, we're trying for it to be an assertive stance, not an aggressive stance. But I always say like, definitely not a passive stance because I'm not a passive person, but that gets me in trouble sometimes because, you know, if you don't get into a place, you know, of meeting this acceptance, then you're literally trying to change something that you can't. In DBT with this radical acceptance concept, Victoria (43:05) Thank you. John (43:10) Yeah. Chris (43:23) They'll help you to understand, you know, that just accepting something even that you don't like or that you didn't want to change, it doesn't mean that you approve of it. It means that you can accept a situation while you push for change. That speaks to you, Victoria. John (43:32) huh. Victoria (43:41) Well, I mean, I was just screaming, yeah. mean, because I think a lot of times I think that that's another like misconception of acceptance is that by accepting something, it means you also are like approving it or okay with it. And no, mean, you're right. It's just not the case. Chris (44:03) You're not approving of anything necessarily. Matter of you're really not in control. It is the second line John of the Serenity Prayer, you know? Grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change. The word is literally in the prayer. Victoria (44:05) Yeah. John (44:16) Yeah, acceptance. So it's radical acceptance. And so you can even apply that religiously or spiritually. And that is that whether you believe in God or not is the radical acceptance of your right to be here in this universe and in this life. And you know that you are worth something and it's of infinite value. And part of the wonder of it is to accept yourself as that wonderful gift that's here and living, breathing. So. Chris (44:53) You I'm just reflecting on the word gift, John. mean, that's, you know, on the one hand, it's kind of like, look, my life changed dramatically. I don't like it. I don't want it. I didn't ask for it. You're telling me I need to accept it and then actually realize that it can be a gift. wow, a gift. John (45:03) you Yeah. Yeah. Chris (45:12) That's really something to, know, mindfulness goes along with dbt2. I mean, it's really something to be in a mindful state about and maybe actually see this as a gift. I think that could be done. John (45:17) No. Yeah. Yeah, I think it can too. DBT is really kind of an out branch, isn't it, of mindfulness and CBT and REBT. I'm doing all of those different words. Yeah, it's stoics. I actually listened to some books on tape. Chris (45:38) I think so Victoria (45:40) Yeah. Chris (45:41) Yeah, no, I think so. think it actually stems on all the old Western philosophies, know, the Eastern, Far Eastern philosophies of long ago. John (45:53) audible basically. And I am a fan of the ancient classical civilizations and the stoicism. Chris (46:07) John, now I'm frustrated with you. You mean to tell me we did a show on stoicism, me and the nurse practitioner, Carrie Hill, and you did a show on stoicism and you read a book after we did that show, brother, what are you doing to me? What are you doing to me? Or did that trigger your interest in reinvading it? John (46:12) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love it. That was several weeks ago. Yeah, I find it very helpful. you know, following Marcus Aurelius and just the philosophy of just, of course, his son Commodus fascinated them, but that's... Yeah, that's too bad. Chris (46:45) John, I'm so glad you're with us, man. I wouldn't know Cassius and Clostomus and whatever the heck he just said, Victoria. Have you ever heard those names? You have not. You have? I'm impressed. John (46:49) Yeah. Victoria (46:54) I've heard of Cassius, yeah. Chris (46:59) Well, he said other names, that's the only name I know. John (47:01) Yeah, that's Shakespeare. yeah, and Brutus. They were the ones that that assassinated. Julius Caesar. There was one more anyway. They were full. Chris (47:15) So there's a couple of practical things that go with the DBT concept. Mindfulness awareness, turning the mind practice. That's actually a little bit of new one to me. I had to kind of look at it. Turning the mind. That's consciously choose acceptance when noticing resistance. So it's like that battle within that I kind of outed myself on. Self validation, affirmation phrases using statements like, it is what it is. Victoria and I both hate that phrase though, don't you Victoria? John (47:35) Lovely. Victoria (47:43) Yes, I'm not a fan of it, as should every therapist. Chris (47:47) John used it. I think it has its place maybe but you know John (47:51) Yeah, I don't like it. ⁓ I had it transported. You're fatalistic. ⁓ Victoria (47:52) Well, I think we can refrain them. Chris (47:57) Wait, you both are gone. What's that, Victoria? Victoria (47:59) I think we can rephrase them like instead of saying it is what it is because that's like saying Feel your feelings. Well, like what the what the f does that be? You know, look I held back on a password. Okay Chris (48:03) Mm-hmm. John (48:12) Okay. Chris (48:16) You did good. did good. There's reframing is a big part of what us therapists kind of do, right? And, and... Victoria (48:21) I even reframing and not using an f-word. Chris (48:25) While trying to keep it family friendly, yes. But you know, it is what it is can also be, I can't change the past, but I can respond now in the present. I that's looking at, yeah, it is what it is, but it's like, that happened, I'm here now, I'm trying to move here. Victoria (48:27) Great. Right. John (48:44) And I think that you might not be able to change the past, but you certainly are capable of changing how you interpret the past. That's not putting a lipstick on a pig or anything like that. It's so that you can see it through new lenses and get me. Chris (48:57) yeah. We need to camp out here for just a minute. You know, that's honestly the title of my book, Re-Understanding Emotions and Becoming Your Best Self. What does that mean? It means that you understood what you experienced. You understood what happened and the facts of the matter. You understand to a certain extent oftentimes what you're perceiving about it. But literally, can you change that, John? John (49:17) Thank Can you change it? Yes. Yes. You have agency. You see that in existential philosophy and logo therapy. And that is that you do it with new meaning. And by that, by changing how you interpret the past, you Chris (49:34) your perception. Mm-hmm. John (49:54) You can't change the events, but you can change how you understand it and can accept it. And thus by doing, you also change how you look at the future and you can choose your own way, choose a better way for yourself and not get, yeah. Chris (50:13) I think we need to be careful here and really that's why I wanted to kind of pause and camp out here for a minute because that it's kind of a really confusing process. You can't change the facts of the matter. We're maintaining that you can change your perception and think about this. If you were stood up as a high schooler and it's stuck in your crawl and it really is a hurtful spot, sometimes for years later, how can we go about literally changing John (50:24) Okay. Right. Chris (50:39) our experience with that, perception of that. Your perception might be, I'm a terrible person, I am unlovable, and there's nothing I can do about it. That obviously needs to be changed, John (50:42) Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to have to leave for a moment. Chris (50:52) How do we change our perception in the moment when something's happening? Okay, sure, you okay? Okay, but John's gonna take a pause. Yeah, absolutely, let's rap. Victoria (51:02) I think the first thing is like not acceptance but acknowledgement. Chris (51:11) Mm-hmm. Victoria (51:12) So like acknowledging that like, things like this perspective needs to be shifted that like, this is not either the best way to look at this, this is not the best perception to have, like accepting that like that part of it. And then, you know, then working to then like change the perspective on it. Chris (51:32) change the perspective on it. I that's what I want to really key in on because yes, Victoria, I couldn't agree more. you know, people really lose agency as John was saying earlier, which he is back now. You know, the way people imagine themselves as being, well, you you feel what you feel. You ever heard that expression? mean, that is true. But Victoria, I used your quote today literally in therapy about three hours ago. What is your quote? Victoria (51:59) Which one? Chris (52:01) Feelings? Victoria (52:02) Feelings are valid. Chris (52:05) No, feelings are not facts. Yeah. Sounds like you got two quotes about feelings. Feelings aren't facts, meaning you experience something that sucks in your life and you feel as though you're stuck and that you can't change the feelings because you can't change the facts. And the reality of it is you can literally totally metamorphosize the way that you learn from pain. Victoria (52:07) other feelings are not facts. But they are valid. They are valid, but they're not facts. John (52:14) Thanks for that. Chris (52:31) Learn from those life experiences, move in a healthier direction from it, getting unstuck and literally changing your perspective about what this life change means for you. John (52:39) I remember, I remember very much when I was in my teens and early 20s, mid 20s, just how much, how my feelings were so strong and just overwhelming me. And it was hard to, it was hard hard to put things in perspective. And I think that's one of the reasons why I think we're given. A long life I pray for for all of us is that you can look back and reflect and then you do the reinterpretation and the reframing and you're able to derive pleasure and understanding and self acceptance even when you did not feel accepted or you felt rejected 50 years ago or 40 years ago, in my case 50 years ago. So it. gives you validation today. And does that make sense or am I? Chris (53:46) It, no, it makes perfect sense, John. And mean, you're, you're, you're, you're absolutely right. I mean, you kind of just took me back to, you know, being a kid, not having matured yet, not really having the emotional ability that was grown and forged through pain or struggle. When you, when you struggle with something and you overcome it, you begin to gain confidence, you begin to gain more agency. And our dear friend from long ago, Casey Morgan used to always talk about internal resiliency. John (54:00) Yeah. Chris (54:14) That's your girl, Victoria, right? Resiliency. And Casey was strong on that, strongest clinician on that particular issue I've ever come across because you really, really can engage that reality that seems so overwhelming. And when I was a kid too, John, the emotions were so strong, it was so hard to do that. But once you do it, you learn from it, I think we call that maturity. John (54:14) Yeah. Victoria (54:21) We're not. Yeah. John (54:40) Yeah, it's not something people are born with. It's engaged. It's acquired. It's a learning curve. It's trial and error, and you are able to do it, and that gives you wisdom. Chris (54:40) but it's an emotional skill set that you do not have automatically. But know what occurs to me though too, what happens when you have a really bad teacher. John (55:05) huh. Chris (55:06) You know, sometimes our families don't really help us, which was probably part of my problem. My dear mother, I love her dearly. You know, she wasn't able to really embrace with me and guide me through that like she would have liked to. Dad was kind of unavailable. You know, I felt really alone and that's probably why the emotions were so strong for me and really had to kind of sift through sort of trial and error, like, you know, and figure that out. Luckily, I've always had a good John (55:07) Yeah. Chris (55:32) strategy system of, of relying on friends, not being alone. And man, I, I was a deep talker even when I was a kid. John (55:39) Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's interesting because I'm seeing where people are, because we live in an age where it seems like so much is social media and all of that. And yet at the same time, people are very, very isolated and that there's that. Yeah. And I'm wondering, yes. And I'm wondering if. Victoria (55:57) Probably more alive now than ever before. John (56:04) if you have to be in a community of some sort where the people can be held mutually accountable, where people can be accepted, know, with that unconditional positive regard, and that's not just for therapists, that's for everybody, that you'd be that in your family. And a lot of us didn't have that. With my own dad, I was making jokes about it, he's a World War II veteran, he had... He had undiagnosed post-traumatic stress disorder for better part of, I mean, he's still suffering from it and he stuffed it, stuffed it. And he would isolate himself. And so, yeah, yeah, I didn't have the relationship with him that I'm having now many years later, but at the same time, Chris (56:45) idea. John (56:58) God, I could have used I could have used that support. Chris (57:01) Absolutely, same. Victoria (57:02) It's probably, along that same thought process, it's probably why people join cults. Yeah. You have my true crime self over here, so I'm all kind of like interested in the cult thing. But that's the thing is like... John (57:08) Okay. Chris (57:08) Wow, go a little further with that, or gangs. Victoria (57:20) People enter a cult a lot of times without realizing it because they feel like in the moment that they have finally found this group of people who is going to accept them and like who have the same interest in them and who are going to be like supportive of them and blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then next thing you know, like they wake up one day and they're like, dad, I think I joined a cult, come get me, you know? Chris (57:48) Wow. Well, you know, another issue, Victoria, a runaway. Victoria (57:51) There's some doubtful in there usually, but in the beginning, that's typically how they find, like, how they find themselves in these groups is because they feel like they've been accepted or that they belong somewhere when in reality it's very few. John (58:05) Yeah, but the call that is is pernicious because it'll say that the locus of control is with the leader or the charismatic leader and not in oneself. And so wholeness is self is radical self acceptance. Here inside. Yeah. Right. Chris (58:23) Again, the DBT thing, right? Victoria (58:25) We should do like a whole episode on like something to do with mental health and cults. John (58:30) I'd like to see. Chris (58:31) that would be a good idea, Victoria, you're right. Victoria (58:31) future things. ⁓ Chris (58:35) But you know, kind of interrupted you before earlier, I apologize for that, but you know, it occurs to me like kids that are runaways as well. You know, or like I said, gang members, you it's you flee, you fight the reality of your family and yeah, you end up, you know, a victim of sex trafficking. Oftentimes runaways are caught into these systems or gangs or cults and adults get grabbed into cults just as well. And honestly, it's for the same reasons. Victoria (58:42) huh. John (58:56) it. Victoria (59:02) Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter your age. Why anybody? Yeah. Chris (59:05) No. No. It matters your emotional development. Victoria (59:10) Yeah. Have we done? Have we done pause? Have we done a podcast episode on loneliness? Chris (59:17) the ⁓ Victoria (59:23) Me too! Before, that was obviously before my time. Yeah. John (59:27) It's a formal claim. Victoria (59:33) Okay. Chris (59:46) As always, one of the big practical steps that we talk about is don't be alone with this stuff. And when you run away from your home or you have religious trauma and you join a cult or you're looking, searching for something, you end up finding yourself reaching out for relation with other people. And if you do that in one of these destructive ways, such as gang life with the Crips or the whatever, boy, you're reaching out. That's a good thing to don't be alone, but choose your friends wisely. Is a phrase that comes to mind, right John? John (1:00:13) Yeah, right. Yeah, I was just thinking that you could also find that with people that can actually, if they are lonely, they can find it more positive outlets. really, and some of my clients are self isolated. And one of the things that I work with them about is that they find community and and. Maybe they're mad at God. Maybe they don't want to go to church or synagogue or to the mosque, but they could go to a senior center and volunteer for an animal shelter and volunteer. yeah. Chris (1:00:46) Right. Listen, there are always groups of people that are dealing with similar things that you're dealing with. Please tap into them, right? John (1:00:59) Right. Victoria (1:00:59) without being a cult. Positive experiences. Chris (1:01:01) the John (1:01:02) Okay. Yeah. Chris (1:01:07) Indeed. So we need to, we need to taxi in a little bit here guys and Neil, we're going to do the shrink wrap up. If you're with us, we don't have to pass the mic to him. He's got his mic and hopefully all in tow. the shrink wrap up is the way we kind of tap out on the show. We have a friendly competition where Victoria, John, and I kind of do a little bit of a summary of the thing that we talked about and Neil gets to choose which one, which one I guess had the better shrink wrap up. John, I gotta say. You in honor of your changing manual you get that you get to choose to go first or last what what's the positioning here brother. John (1:01:38) I'll go first because I know it's okay because I've gone through a process this past two weeks of change and you you use the term radical acceptance and I'm thinking this has been a radical change for me and for my wife Joy. and our relationships are changing and all of that. And I wasn't ready before, but I am know now that I am and I'm in that process. And that's okay. It's okay. It's wonderful to be able to accept where I'm at and not even to have a place to rest my head because I'm in the place I need to be. And that just is just so comforting. that's all I have to say. Chris (1:02:41) Man, John, I think I might know who's going to get the win this week. My shrink wrap up will be, yeah. You know, we all have these changes. We all have these engagements in life where we feel like the sand is shifting between our very feet and we don't know up from down. We can be thrown for a loop. Life does that in so many ways. you know, fighting against it is what we're talking about trying to avoid. Not being alone is a big deal in my kind of framework of thinking. But understand that John (1:03:04) Thank Chris (1:03:10) You know, the serenity prayer really kind of can apply. ⁓ God grant me serenity to accept the things that I cannot change. It's a powerful reality that can create serenity, even in the midst of massive major life changes. Yeah. John (1:03:13) Thank Victoria (1:03:26) For me, my wrap up is that Acceptance is possible, but it doesn't always mean that you approve of it and that that's okay. But you can still work through it, forward the acceptance so that you can go on to continue to live your life without that thing either holding you back or keeping you from moving forward or whatever it is that you're trying to do. You got it. John (1:03:38) Yeah. Thank you. Chris (1:03:55) gotcha Neil we're gonna pass the mic over to you proverbially I guess virtually what you thinking man John (1:03:56) Beautiful. Neil (1:04:03) Uh, I like Victoria's today. Honestly, hers are short three to the civil to the point I bet I think it's important that you have to accept to move on. Chris (1:04:05) Wow. Wow! John (1:04:08) Victoria, the glorious... Victoria (1:04:11) Thank Chris (1:04:11) Wait a minute, can't all talk at once, Neil. Go ahead, Neil. Neil (1:04:14) No, Victoria got it. hit the nail on the head. Everything I think you need to hear and I think it just the importance of you have to move forward and I think you have to go through those pieces. So yeah, Victoria gets it this week. John (1:04:25) Jesus Saint. Victoria (1:04:26) Snaps. Chris (1:04:27) I'm a little bit frustrated right now. John (1:04:28) Good. Victoria (1:04:28) So. John (1:04:31) No, I don't know. Victoria (1:04:33) You can't just let me have this win, okay? I rarely get them, okay? John (1:04:37) Thank you. Chris (1:04:38) I'm so sorry, Victoria. You got it, baby. I'm happy and proud of you. That is awesome, Victoria. Well done. listen, the announcement is, John, we're going to give you a break by natural happen chance of time. Next week is the the month in review. I'm really looking forward to this particular month in review because Adam, as has been announced, has moved on and transitioned as well. Golly, we've had a lot of transition on this show, right? John (1:04:41) You deserve it. ⁓ Yeah. Victoria (1:05:05) Yeah, in a very short period of time. Chris (1:05:07) Yeah, so we got a gentleman named Kyle King and I have recently met Kyle. It shows him because he's excited about what we're doing on Through Therapist Eyes and I think he's a conversationalist. He was on the show before when we talked about the IT challenges and problems. So he's a good guy, wonderful to talk with him. Neil, think you and Kyle are going to have a great time reviewing these shows, guys. John (1:05:30) All right. Fantastic. Y'all take care. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Victoria (1:05:31) I'm excited. Chris (1:05:35) John, welcome back. Everybody will see you next week. Stay well. Victoria (1:05:36) Yeah.