In Episode 375 of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we step past the sensationalized headlines to examine the painful reality of adult child-parent estrangement in an increasingly disconnected world. Driven by changing therapy culture, social media narratives, and evolving definitions of emotional safety, the choice to go “no contact” is often framed as a clear-cut boundary—but clinical data and family systems theory reveal a far more complex picture of relational ruptures, intergenerational patterns, and unexpressed grief. Together, we explore whether modern psychology is empowering individuals to leave genuinely toxic environments or inadvertently giving us tools to bypass the messy discomfort of relational repair, offering practical reflections for both adult children and parents seeking clarity, health, and a way forward.
Tune in to see Why Adult Children are Cutting Off Their Parents Through a Therapist’s Eyes
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- When does setting a healthy boundary become cutting someone out of your life?
- Does being someone’s parent entitle you to a relationship with them once they’re an adult?
- Are we getting healthier at recognizing toxic family relationships—or quicker to abandon relationships that might be repaired?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/marriageandfamily
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/anxietyanddepression/parenting
Journal of Marriage and Family — U.S. Parent–Adult Child Estrangement Study
Wall Street Journal — Why Are So Many Adults Cutting Off Their Parents?
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #375 Transcription
Chris (00:01)
Hello, good evening, good morning, or good afternoon, wherever you might be finding this time of day to through a therapisize, we are hitting you with episode three seventy five. We’ve pushed into the fall up here in the North Carolina region, and I can’t tell you how happy I am to get out of the humidity. What are you shaking your head for, girl? Casey’s shaking her
Kasie (00:20)
This is
Chris (00:21)
head.
Kasie (00:21)
this is fake fall. When you have to wake up and wear a sweater and take it off by dinner, fake fall.
Chris (00:28)
Okay, fair enough. I I I
John (00:29)
Okay, very cool.
Chris (00:30)
agree. Relationships in a disconnected world is a little bit of the theme this month. Why are adult children cutting off their parents? And I gotta be honest with you. I was surprised at this particular topic. I’m being very curious to hear what my colleagues have to say about this. By the way, my colleagues are Casey Morgan hanging out with us. How are you?
Kasie (00:51)
Hello, I am doing well. Glad to not be at cheer practice tonight.
John (00:55)
Hey.
Chris (00:56)
Indeed. Mr John Pope is hanging out with us as well from Florida.
John (01:00)
Yes, from Florida hurricane central central.
Chris (01:07)
And actually I wanna make sure that we make sure to highlight how people can find you, Casey, because you are not at Metrolina Psychotherapy Associates here in the Gaston County area, which we are at seven four four six one eight two five three. How do they find you
Kasie (01:22)
Yeah.
Chris (01:23)
if they wanna do therapy with Miss Casey Morgan in the local area of Denver?
Kasie (01:25)
Yeah, so you can
find me online at www.casymorgancounseling dot com or you can simply call nine eight zero eight five eight five four one three.
Chris (01:40)
We don’t do self-promotion very much on the show, but please allow us the formal ability in the moment to do that. But this is an interesting show to check out what my colleagues think about this because I honestly didn’t know this was a trend. Why are adult children cutting off their parents is evidently a bit of a new trend. And
John (01:59)
Yes.
Chris (01:59)
I do want to be honest. I’ve kind of been experimenting with how to use Chat GPT and it kind of helps me, you know, be productive and quick with some time and stuff. And
You know, I will kick back and forth ideals for the show. And it came up with this and I was like, the hell, that’s not a trend. And
John (02:14)
Is is there a data
center that you’re using, Chris, for AI?
Chris (02:19)
Huh?
John (02:20)
Are you using a data center
Kasie (02:21)
A data center.
John (02:22)
for AI?
Chris (02:24)
I mean, I guess. I guess, yes, I’m using a data center.
Am I going down in the in the in the midterms for that, John? But here’s
John (02:30)
Yeah, I guess you are.
Chris (02:32)
my thing. You know, I I didn’t realize it was really a trend, but when I started to pay attention over the course of the last couple few weeks, I’m noticing this all over the place with my clients. I I’m still curious if it’s me noticing it just with clients or if it is kind of a trend type thing. I
Casey and John, what say you? Is this is this a big trend that you’ve noticed?
John (02:55)
Yeah, it’s
a big trend. I see it with my older clients that have kids. Yeah, I do.
Chris (03:02)
Yeah.
John (03:02)
Yeah, it’s heartbreaking. And I also get it from the younger clients because they’re estranged. It’s not a lot of them, but you know, it’s I think it’s not just trendy. I think there’s something to this.
Chris (03:13)
Is this different than earlier in your career though?
John (03:17)
Much different.
Chris (03:19)
More or less?
John (03:21)
It’s more than it was. So
Chris (03:23)
Okay.
I haven’t really noticed. What say you, Casey?
Kasie (03:27)
Yeah, I definitely I don’t know if I would call it a trend as much as I would call it like a shift from that like unconditional family duty of a sentiment from
when I was really young, like how we were brought up to revere our parents and our grandparents in a certain way or a certain light. And I think there’s been a shift from that to really prioritizing and looking at your individual mental health, emotional safety, and your own personal autonomy in situations when it comes
John (03:58)
Yeah.
Kasie (04:00)
to all relationships, including family relationships.
John (04:03)
Gaslighting
me, Casey.
Kasie (04:06)
Yeah, that’s true.
John (04:08)
No, that’s a term that my younger
Chris (04:09)
Mm.
John (04:10)
clients use, gaslighting. But
Kasie (04:11)
Yeah.
John (04:13)
but Chris, I’m a Vuncular, I guess, and so I’m thinking that maybe they’ve told me this more often. So I don’t know.
Chris (04:26)
Be curious where our conversation goes because I I think it’s kind of an interesting thing. And actually, we we are on YouTube, and so you can see us live at 6:15 to 630 on Thursdays. and I this particular show notes that I did I kind of prompted and wanted to get some some good data point. So go to through a therapist eyes.com and it’ll have all of our links in there because there’s a lot of numbers, there’s a lot of things, there’s
that that I found curious. And one was from the Washington Post, a Cornell Family Project, a PubMed article, a U Gov thing, a Wall Street Journal thing. So so we’ve we’ve got some things baked into this. We’re not just shooting off wheely nilly with our beliefs and stuff, but
John (05:10)
That was a depressing article. Yeah.
I’m sorry. the Wall Street Journal.
Chris (05:15)
Yes.
John (05:16)
Wall Street Journal. It was depressing.
Chris (05:20)
It was depressing. Okay. John’s popping in there. All right. Let me do my intro. If you’ve heard our intro before, pop out, you know, thirty seconds a couple times. This is where you get insights and information from a few therapists, not knowing it’s not the personal time in your car or delivery of therapy services in any way. Wow. Let me get this straight. This is the delivery of therapy services is not. This is just our podcast views, talking to you.
from from our perspective because we are real therapists that do real clinical work every day and this is where we really talk about what actually helps. And so what else, John? The five stars,
we need you to
John (06:02)
Five stars.
Chris (06:03)
do your part.
John (06:04)
Google. Five stars Google Apple Apple Podcast. All the podcasts. Five stars.
Chris (06:14)
Casey, this is the delivery of therapy services. but what do we try to do? We figure this out together or this is the human emotional experience which
Kasie (06:23)
So we endeavor to figure this out together. This is not the delivery of therapy services, but this is a therapist coming live to you from wherever you’re listening today.
Chris (06:33)
I bought that I botched that all up ’cause normally I’ve got my sheet in front of me and today I’m I’m I’m flying I’m flying dry because my my entire computer, my camera, my normal setup is all goofed up. So I am not normal right now. I I I I completely destroyed all of that, but bear with me. Sorry about that. We do give you reflection questions to think about through the day and we’re gonna ask you when does setting a healthy boundary become cutting someone out of your life? Right?
There’s a big mix and a lot of language that people have in culture where you know we talk about boundaries and such. And I think that is an interesting differential, so much that I want to read it again. A reflection question number one When does setting a healthy boundary become actually cutting someone out of your life? Two, does being someone’s parent entitle you to a relationship once they’re an adult? Key word entitled. And thirdly,
Are we getting healthier recognizing toxic family relationships or are we quicker to abandon relationships that might be repaired? You know, it’s a it’s a that’s that’s a big conundrum. And I I I I feel like well, let’s just go cold. Why if this is a new trend, and we’re gonna talk about the numbers.
Why do you think this is such a trend where family dynamics are such splintered, such ruptured, such tore apart, where people literally just stop relating to each other? Like what is what is what is the big deal? Cause I’ve been thinking about this and I have an answer.
Kasie (08:16)
I I think from my perspective on I think there’s kind of a concept of when I was growing up, right, in my generation growing up
there was an almost an automatic granted respect for people that carried a title of your parent and your grandparent, right? and then people beyond that, like you respected adults, you respected people in authority, you respected like that was ingrained or indoctrined from an early age.
And now I think more often I’m seeing younger generations that view respect as a reciprocal event, meaning that respect has to be earned, access is earned. It’s not necessarily directly granted. I mean, early on in life, you don’t really have a choice in that regard. But as you get older as an adult, there’s a feeling now that if there’s not a reciprocal amount of
respect, a reciprocal amount of effort, a reciprocal amount of I don’t know, just pouring into the relationship from either direction, it can grow further and further apart and eventually become toxic or be cut off or be told that this is gonna be the hard line or the boundary in this situation.
I would never in a
Chris (09:41)
Yeah, okay.
Kasie (09:42)
million years think of doing that to my parents just because not just because of their title, but just because of my relationship with them. But I think that there are people who view it differently that respect has to be earned.
Chris (09:57)
Yeah, you gotta check the YouTube out if you’re on the audio version only. You see John doing this. He’s
John (10:02)
Yeah.
Chris (10:02)
owning up his phone. What say you, John?
John (10:04)
I I don’t think people talk to each other. I think people have iPhones and Androids and they don’t even use it to talk anymore. They just ignore the calls. And they’ll just rather text or they’ll do everything by Instagram or TikTok. And they’ll make these TikToks and Instagram shorts and say I’m so unhappy or something like that. And they
don’t talk to people that really care about I know there’s toxic parents, I know there’s a lot of them, but I I can’t believe that there are so many that it that it would justify that number of people that would be cutting themselves off from their their parents or their grandparents or siblings.
Chris (10:58)
So that’s the interesting I mean that’s the that’s the oversight. What are we talking about? So here’s here’s some here’s some numbers for what they are. Like I said, we’ve got data backing it up with the studies that that we looked at and we got some links on the through a therapist eyes dot com. Please definitely check that out. PubMed Central is where this comes from, in that twenty-six percent of respondents in this longitudinal study are experienced at least one period of estrangement from their father.
And 6% from their mother beginning at age 15. First estrangements occurred on an average around age 23 for fathers and 26 for mothers. frequently this stuff isn’t permanent though. So we need to point out that in subsequent waves of research, eighty-one percent became unestranged from their mothers, and sixty-nine became unestranged from their fathers. So this whole
John (11:51)
It’s hopeful.
Chris (11:52)
I’m not gonna deal with you.
doesn’t
necessarily mean I’m never going to deal with you. And as a matter of fact, I’ll say what’s interesting in why is this a trend or not that I find fascinating, I painfully will reveal I had various gaps in a relationship with my own father. And, you know, it sucked. You know, it got to a place where I was really grounded with it and comfortable with it. But
There were a lot of reasons why this all happened. He just he never called me very often. And over the years, and starting with the divorce years, I’m the one that kind of reached out to reconnect and rekindle the the thing that that that gaps had occurred. And you know, I I and so I you know, in that time I was remember talking to a barista at one point and he gave me a a an interesting idea. I was just, you know, talking about my stress and I got to know him. He was kind of a friend. And he’s like, Yeah, man, you I I
Buddy of mine, you know, he he has this experience where you know his family acts crazy. And so he’s like, look, I’m not dealing with this. And he takes a two-year break and he comes back and he’s like, All right, you know, if you can act normal, I’ll talk to you, we’ll engage, we’ll do the thing. and then it’d be weird again, and he’d just shut it down for another two years. And I don’t know how many iterations of that is, but I really feel this is where John and Casey, you might want to stone me, but what’s my favorite topic nowadays, right?
The greatest challenge that humanity has had to face in the history of mankind itself is the rapid pace of technological change. I think that’s what this comes down to.
John (13:29)
No, I I I won’t stone you for that. I agree with you.
I I I think we’re
Chris (13:34)
Yeah, John. Yeah.
John (13:36)
we really are disjointed and we don’t have a sense of home and place and a lot of people don’t. I do. I have a very strong sense, but look at me, I’m a geezer. So it’s you know, I’m I’m of a very different generation seeing that. But my kids are very different than my wife and I are, and their values, even though
They have strong virtues, Christian faith. They have different understandings and they rely more on this than tablets than just calling mom and dad once a week and or a few times a week. I I just I think we’re dis displaced and we’re out of place. And I don’t know if there’s
an immediate solution. I think the reason why so many people are in therapy right now is because they don’t have the support system. I was talking to a psychologist today who who and I we were talking and said, you know, church whether or not you’re a believer or not, people find identity in in their churches, the places of worship, or synagogues, or mosques. And
And I agreed with them on that. I think that even it’s pragmatic, it’s it’s it’s a place where you can find that support. And if you have a negative support at home or a toxic relationship, you can always go to the youth pastor or t join the choir and or become active in a a youth group or an adult group and find meaning and place.
Am I off the wall on that?
Chris (15:31)
Not a lot there. Would you think it casey?
Kasie (15:33)
No, I mean I
yeah, I I think that there is such and we may be getting to this later, I haven’t looked all the way through the notes, but there there’s just such a great divide or chasm between intent and impact and the approach from either side of that by either part.
I think that adult children, and I’ve felt this before myself, you know, it’s it’s this exhaustion sometimes of unmet needs, right? Like when you feel unheard, when you feel criticized, minimized, subjected to unsolicited advice about how to raise your kids and how about your partner and what needs to be done and what you should be doing. And I can’t believe you would leave your kids in child care until five thirty and not be at home making a meal or
like the traditionalist values that get thrown on us all the time.
I think that it’s like a just a million different paper cuts, right? And then over time the paper cuts continue
John (16:31)
Yeah. I agree on that.
Kasie (16:34)
and continue. And then once it’s approached, I think their approach becomes the impasse in the relationship, right? Is because the parent, the ad like not the adult child, but the adult parent is saying, Well, that’s not what I meant, right? But instead of having any like accountability to that a lot of the time,
That could be hurtful. They hold on to that’s not what I meant. And the adult child holds on fast to this is the impact that that has on me. And so that impasse of intent and impact, I think, is where we see a lot of these fissures in relationships. Yes, the technology and the divide and the communication, all of those things might contribute to that.
John (17:20)
Make it easier. Yeah.
Kasie (17:22)
make it even worse or make it harder, or even we’re interpreting from text messages what someone means, which is bananas, you know? So but I definitely think it’s just operating from two separate sides of the reality of what’s really happening. Like even the events of a shared history.
can be different in the same family, you know? We’ve all, yeah, wildly different,
Chris (17:43)
wildly different. Yeah.
Kasie (17:46)
right? My version
John (17:46)
Yeah.
Kasie (17:47)
of events versus my mom’s version of events can be completely different. And the way we approach that can be completely different. And the way we remember it and the way we felt it and the way we experienced it is completely different. So if there’s not a lot of validation and accountability on both parts, then I think we do see a a chasm or a divide in the family
John (18:09)
When I was growing up there was something called the generation gap. And that’s when Timothy Leary wanted you to take acid, drop acid and and and go on a trip. but the generation gap was a big thing. We s we have that now, I suppose. We’ve always had it. Socrates said it and
Chris (18:32)
No, I think the generation gap is a little bit easier to get because of the fact of that we’re so spread out, John, and then and so much different happens in technology and all. I let me go let me blast through some things real quick in that we we can’t say with the numbers that estrangement in families is actually exploding. Wall the sad article that John says is the sad article from Washington Post. they they looked at tracking rates of this and and came up with
There’s no dramatic increase that’s that’s clear. I mean, we do need to study this more. And I I think that’s the problem, man. Technology changes so quickly that we can’t really get our arms wrapped around this. Has anyone even thought of tracking this since, you know, the nineteen eighties when computers came out and people are more more split up than than normal? I I don’t know that many people have. A little bit of why, this is a Ugov thing, forty three hundred ninety-five
US adults gave some data. and they’re commonly reporting things like manipulative behavior, abuse, lies, and betrayal. But with further research, people describe difficult to childhoods and sometimes including abuse, but not necessarily, right? So it it doesn’t doesn’t necessarily seem to create the estrangement. you know, it’s kind of like you were saying, Casey, I I feel like this is
More the experience that I happened to have with my own father, where, you know, the child may be saying, I’ve been telling you what’s wrong for ten years, and the parent may be saying this came out of nowhere. Like how disconnected do we get? And I know when my family went through a divorce, it was shattering. Just shattering. And and I don’t think the adults in the group dealt with it well. So it was left to me in college to kind of reconnect and try to re
convene this thing. And
John (20:30)
Yeah.
Chris (20:31)
I didn’t know what I was doing. I mean, I was struggling in a lot of my own ways. And so you know, I I I I just I just feel like there’s a lot of engagement that we turn into the world. I mean, people are going off to Singapore to live. And they live in Kansas from their families just because they get online, they make friendships and they go.
John (20:58)
Yeah.
Chris (20:59)
What
does that do to your relationship with grandma for the last fifteen years of her life? You know, I mean it literally used to be all of families lived on like the row of houses and we farmed. I mean, we’re what, 150 years ago with that?
C C I couldn’t even imagine what living like that would be.
Kasie (21:22)
Well, I mean, I didn’t farm, but I grew up and my next door neighbors were my aunt and uncle. Two down two ho houses down was my aunt and uncle. Across the street was my cousin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We didn’t farm,
Chris (21:31)
Really? See that is so rare, man. That is rare.
Kasie (21:37)
but it was the Sigmund family farmland that was divided out. Neil knows he was on my bus route, so so like
Chris (21:44)
Yeah. Right.
Kasie (21:47)
we all lived and communed and had celebrations and you know it was a one-bathroom house and we would all convene there, 63 of us usually, to have Christmas and family celebrations together and things like that.
John (21:59)
Well
Chris (22:00)
Tree.
John (22:00)
no no no I have
that. I s I have that
Kasie (22:02)
Yeah.
John (22:03)
now. I still have that. So it’s not necessarily dead and dying. we have every year we have a Buttermore reunion and we have about sixty people show up. And we all go to church together.
Chris (22:18)
Yeah, you know, if you’re listening
to this show, I would venture, I would ask you to answer a question. It’ll be really curious to get people to to roll in. Like, how many people have had a family reunion experience in the last 20 years where more than 30 people showed up? Right? I mean, I remember one family reunion when I was a kid, and we played when we played football with my cousins and it rained and it was delightful. But that
I I wonder if culture has just shifted around the world where this just doesn’t happen as much.
John (22:51)
Mm-hmm. Well,
I’m from Hillbilly Land, so I’m from the mountains of Kentucky. And I I can use that term hillbilly because that’s what I am. So
Chris (23:00)
Yeah, fair enough.
John (23:02)
yeah. It’s a badge of
Kasie (23:02)
It’s a badge of honor, yeah.
John (23:04)
honor, yeah. Very proud of the the roots.
Chris (23:08)
And so there are some cultural changes, but guys, how have cultural changes kind of contributed to this? You know?
Kasie (23:15)
Well, I don’t think it’s been all negative. And I want to make that point abundantly clear because I think one strength about this part of the culture where there’s been a shift here is that people are recognizing that you you need to process through and feel some of your feelings on this because the suppression of things that have happened to you or happened around you or happened in your immediate family unit.
that were unhealthy is and probably impacting you today as an adult. So I think that’s one big difference that we’re looking at that you know children are no longer growing up to be seen and not heard or asked to keep their emotions to a minimum or if you have an emotion go and lock it up back in the barn or just cry silently into your pillow.
They’re asked to talk through it. They’re asked to learn about it in school. We have social emotional curriculum in schools now, public school. You
John (24:16)
We didn’t.
Kasie (24:17)
know, like they’re asking process through. And I think that there are some good aspects of the shift in kind of the therapy culture, if you will, where we do need to explore some of these things because what we find is when a person becomes an adult and they don’t have a good understanding as to why they’re, you know.
going through jobs like hot cakes and unable to maintain stable relationships with people
John (24:44)
Okay.
Kasie (24:45)
and so on and so forth. Like there are some foundational elements to that that we have to explore. And some of that is family of origin work. Doesn’t mean we’re blaming parents, doesn’t mean that we’re taking responsibility away from the adult child and saying like
you just do what you want, cut them off if you need to. But what it does mean is we need to look at these things so that we can figure out together how to proceed forward.
John (25:13)
well,
Chris (25:12)
What you thinking, John?
John (25:13)
you know, I’m s I was hearing where Casey I I I’m I’m settling where Casey is very closely. But if you want to get some real statistics that you can do, or sadistics, I call them sadistics, is that you go and if you’re professional, if you’re are taking statistics courses in the university or in your courses as a therapist, or to
Training is to go to the General Social Survey, which is done through the University of Chicago. And it’s got all those numbers. And if you want to find out how many households or single parent households or mixed households, or has all that information that is taken from census information, from studies, and you can you can do this, and so you can actually do the research.
To find out if this is indeed a trend or indeed of something that’s been going on for for fifty years, a hundred years, or for time in memorial or memorial. Biblical times, yeah.
Chris (26:24)
Weaken to biblical times, right?
Yeah, I don’t think it’s brand new. I mean, we definitely have estrangements in family, but I but I I I I feel a shift in in some of these things that we’re playing around with. Why? I this this next potential why I think is is a fun one for us. I you know, the question that’s prompted is has therapy culture become part of the problem? And I you know, if you if you if you think down at the way that people use TikTok and get the
The themes. I mean, I hear so many people using our word, Joe. And and
half the
John (26:59)
Horses.
Chris (27:00)
time it just doesn’t feel like it’s used in context correctly. D do you I mean, do you guys hear this? Do I see I I feel
John (27:06)
Yeah, I do.
Chris (27:07)
this a lot.
John (27:08)
That’s why I was saying gaslighting to to Stacey. ‘Cause I hear that all the time.
Chris (27:13)
you were just gaslighting
me, John. I’m may I’m angry with you. I’m going to have to set a boundary with you next time.
John (27:19)
Stop. I no, it just sounds so artificial when I hear that from somebody and I’ve got set firm boundaries, you know. yeah, and I’m going, that’s you
Chris (27:29)
Absolutely. It
John (27:32)
it’s not a conversation, you know.
Chris (27:36)
It’s wild. I mean, I I I I feel like everyone talks about their spouse being abusive. Emotional abuse, we’ve done a show on that. It’s it’s a it’s a term that really is is a powerfully important term because, you know, the awareness, as you point out, Casey, and I’m glad that you do. There’s a lot of positivity with these things. We have more information out about mental health than ever before in my 30 years doing this work. And John, you can back me up with.
at least twenty more years than my thirty years, correct?
John (28:09)
Right. Yes. But what I’ve seen is a shift from people talking to their pastors, huh? Talking to their pastors, and they could speak God talk and religious talk. And now they’ve gone to a new religion, and that is the therapy faith and therapy. And and you are the priest,
And she is Casey is the priestess of the of the chart. Well, that’s unfortunately I and
Kasie (28:40)
No she is not. No, she is not.
John (28:45)
they’re not aware of it, but but I can see that as being very much of you know, you’re gonna get you’re gonna do AI and you’re gonna go on and gron is it Gron Claude or Gronk or Haiku or yeah.
And and and they’re gonna give you that. Uh-huh.
Chris (29:07)
Bronk was a tight end for the New England Patriots.
No, it it’s it it drives me nuts a little bit. Like these words mean something to me, and I hear people kind of go all into it. They go all in, right? The therapeutic concept have been weaponized. Like I hear them in arguments and fights. I I spent an hour with a couple this morning, and you know, I I hear all this stuff all the time. You’re toxic. You’re a narcissist. That one drives me crazy.
John (29:32)
That’s a good one.
I hear that all the time.
Chris (29:34)
Do people even
have any idea what narcissism is? We’ve done a whole show on that, by the way. You triggered my trauma. I’m protecting my peace. I’m setting a boundary. Here’s what I will and here’s what I won’t participate in. You know, it’s like
John (29:49)
That’s what I was saying.
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (29:52)
Yeah, it’s it’s too much.
Kasie (29:53)
What what whenever
I have people in any type of relationship setting, whether it be couples therapy, families, parentchild, things like that, I do ask them all the same primary question. Is your motivation today to be right, or is your motivation today to be repaired? Because while they’re
Are some things that are true and untrue and things like that. If the motivation is going to be reparative work in this relationship, then that becomes the focus is how do we repair? Not who’s right, who did worse, who hasn’t apologized, who needs to apologize. We’re looking to repair. But if your motivation is to be right, then we’re not going to be able to move forward together in this conversation.
You know, because that’s a staunch line. Go ahead. I just said it’s a staunch
Chris (30:49)
I think it’s a little bit nuanced, JC. I’m sorry. G were you finishing? Yeah, I
Kasie (30:54)
line and differentiation between the two arenas.
Chris (30:58)
It is. It is a it is a difficult line. And I and I feel like there’s so much like here’s the thing, that is true. I I agree with everything you just said, but I’ll push into the idea of trying to take that into the real world. And I think that people in the real world are I mean, I am amazed at how smart people are. I am amazed at how much they remember and retain and the brilliance and the creativity of people. But they’ll take themes and and and I like what our our our show notes say.
A 60-second TikTok doesn’t know your mother, but it doesn’t know the whole family system either. It it doesn’t know whether dad is abusive, emotionally immature, socially awkward, stubborn, traumatized himself, or simply a fallen human being who pissed you off. I love the way that that came out, right? Because creative, smart retaining of information doesn’t like
Casey, I think in the real world, people don’t want to be right and they would be like, yeah, I totally understand that. But in the real application, I see your behavior, I see a definition, therefore I believe my truth is that you are a narcissistic person that is causing me harm. I’m not trying to be right. These are just these are just the facts. Casey, just the facts. And it’s like, Wow. What yeah
How do people throw that hot potato back and forth at each other?
Kasie (32:26)
Yeah. Well I I also think that that
Is a strong argument for exercises and facts versus feelings, right? Because we often accept our feelings as absolute truth and our feelings as absolute fact. And there are people that
John (32:41)
Okay.
Kasie (32:41)
live in family systems where really wrong things happen. And I just want to acknowledge that for one second. And I think we have done that, but like abuse is real, it really happens. Like things like that really do happen in family systems. So if that is you and that is what has happened, we are not.
Not asking you today to reconsider that relationship and try to jump back in with someone who has, by definition, been very abusive to you. But we what we do want to consider is those situations where something has happened and it has hurt your feelings, it has made you angry, it has caused a disruption in your emotional stability over time. It’s felt like criticism for a long period of time, you know, so on and so forth.
What we’re asking here is to look and inspect at are we basing our contact with our parents or is any somebody within a relationship? Are we basing that on actual facts or are we going off of the feelings that have been generated by behavioral elements contained within that relationship?
John (33:48)
Feelings.
feelings. So thank you. I’m sorry. I’m crooning.
Kasie (33:52)
Thanks, John. Yeah, he’s my hype man. John’s
my hype man. But but but
Chris (33:56)
Give us a little bit more of the song, John.
Fit take it for thirty two seconds.
John (33:59)
I can’t I can’t. I can’t.
It’s been fifty years so
Kasie (34:01)
Yeah.
John (34:02)
that came out, so
Kasie (34:04)
But but I think that that’s that’s it, right? Like if we can start to tease apart what are facts.
And start to tease apart what our feelings, then we can look at like what that work looks like for real. Instead of labeling it because titles are free, I’ve said it before, titles are free. You can title anything, whatever you want to, this day in time. Titles are free. But the truth is, is that what happened to you or what happened around you is valid and it’s important. But is it as important as the facts of the situation to where you are willing?
To cut off a relationship. I think it also speaks to your last week’s episode or the week before, whenever you did the episode about relationships, that when we put so much value and pressure and expectation on the other person to fulfill the relationship that we have with them, that’s where we’re going to notice a lot of these gaps and flaws as well.
That if we’re not inspecting ourselves and asking ourselves like what is going on within me that is generating some of these feelings and thoughts that I’m having, and we put that expectation on the other person that their role is to make my life better, easier, happier, so on and so forth, then that person’s gonna fail every time because they’re also a person with flaws.
John (35:31)
Yeah.
Yeah. I’m I’m I’m hearing that the Casey and I’m I’m agreeing with you because I know the language of of of therapy and of of some of you youngsters. I I’m I’m learning that language. But you have people my age, even older, that never use language like this. And so when you have a
a an older person that hears, well, you know, you you cross boundaries and you know, you you have yeah,
Chris (36:09)
See what you’re saying, yeah.
John (36:10)
squelch you know that that’s gonna it’s gonna be a mego. My eyes glaze over because they have no concept of how to relate to that. Now you have and so it has to be there has to be some sort
of way to reach out as a younger person to say and maybe learn some of the language of older folks so that other parents so that they might be able to express instead of going away alienated they can go and say this is this is what’s happening with me I love you I would like to be closer to you and
There is a possibility that the parent will just reject that, but it seems like the the statistics, the good statistics are the great majority, even with males, that younger people reconnect with their their their their parents and so that they do that, and so they might learn a little patience, they might also have more experience.
and know what it’s like to be misunderstood or not to to to have you know somebody appreciate who you are, how that person is. Am I making sense? I hope I am.
Chris (37:41)
Yeah.
No, you you totally are John, and I think I want to add to what both of your said because I you’re right. Ol older folks really don’t talk the same language. Literally. They’ve you know, I I’m losing the new lingo and parties are deep. I still know what that means. When you know, when things are lit, I I kinda still know what that means. But the newer, younger kids are starting to develop all different language points to describe social events and things, and my kids are twenty four and twenty one, so I’m losing it.
Right. And even when you’ve got the language though, John, and Casey, when you’re talking about being right and the feelings matter, it is really hard to do this in in in live fire. I can’t tell you during what I call the decade of hell that I went through with marriage, all of our turmoil. I mean, my head was spinning. You know, and I’m contemplating the potential reality of losing this relationship permanently.
And I could have used all these therapy words because I know them. I know them pretty well, I feel like. But I I gotta tell you, my head was spinning a lot of times. Do you know what I had to do? I had to call my buddy Adrian. I needed to talk to Joe. I needed to talk to David, Matthew, Neil, Greg, John.
John (39:03)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (39:04)
You know, I had these people that I would
Check in with and and figure it out together is not just a line that I created for through a therapist eyes. In therapy, John and Casey both know, I’m sure that oftentimes we can be in a discussion with somebody and come across an event in their life and identify for them, better way of saying that, identify with them that they’re actually a victim of abuse and didn’t even know it.
John (39:36)
Yeah.
Chris (39:37)
They might have needed an estrangement. They might have needed a break in that relationship at some age and didn’t even know it. So I I guess what I’m really trying to layer out, John, is like you say, with older people, but younger people too. I don’t know, how many times I say on the show, don’t do it alone. It’s dangerous to do it and try to figure it through it alone.
John (39:57)
Yeah. I was estranged from my grandfather, my mother’s father, and he was an old country doctor and he thought everybody should wear hair like people in the nineteen twenties. And literally guys, you know, they
Chris (40:11)
Yeah.
John (40:13)
they wear now, but that was not the style when I was in high school. And he he had me drive him around and then he said, I’m gonna go to this he went to the barber.
and kinda told me to sit in that chair and get my hair cut and I just I wouldn’t talk to him for a year. Yeah, so and he never apologized. But I don’t think he would know how to to say that. So
Kasie (40:50)
I think that’s a really good point because here’s the thing, you know, and and I’ll say this universally. Let me be someone to say, I am sorry for the things that people in your life will never apologize for. Because
Chris (41:06)
Yeah.
Kasie (41:06)
the likelihood of having the exact outcome that you desire from a situation that has hurt you is very limited.
Right. We we all have to understand the nuances of relationships, how that works, what accountability is, you know, so on and so forth. And if you are holding out in a relationship for the exact right kind of apology or the exact right kind of a response or the exact right thing under your own direction of what that’s supposed to look like, you you may wind up sorely disappointed.
Chris (41:43)
More.
John (41:45)
Yeah. I I was eight I w
Kasie (41:45)
You may be sorely disappointed.
John (41:47)
I had to learn that at eighteen to forgive my grandfather. And
yeah.
Kasie (41:51)
And so
Chris (41:52)
Right.
Kasie (41:52)
I think that’s the the challenge here because a lot of what happens in these situations from everything that I’ve experienced as a therapist, as someone like yourself has experienced this in their own life, as someone who is currently going through this in their own life, is this as an adult, the child part of us craves that relationship to be different. We we want it to be different.
We f even fantasize, think about it, sensationalize, memorialize it to be different. But as the adult, we have to understand that that’s the child mind thinking of it that way. We then have to decide what it’s going to look like. And basing that on
How you feel like you’re proceeding forward in the relationship, that you can booth it forward in what direction you want it to, so on and so forth, what the access is going to look like, you know, so on and so forth. My challenge here would be this: make that decision based on your beliefs, your thoughts, your relationship to a higher power, God, so on and so forth. Make those decisions based on that belief system.
Not let the situation dictate your actions. That’s what I would say.
Chris (43:17)
Yeah.
Let me bluff through a couple of things that I think are are important to add in this conversation before we get to the the the panel discussion that we’ve started to to do a segment on. First of all, I I I hate to short the part on family systems because that’s social work. That’s actually my roots, man. We have counselors, we have marriage and family. Don’t stick your tongue out and degrade my social work, family system stuff, Miss Casey saying, I’m coming
Kasie (43:42)
Just joking. I’m just joking.
Chris (43:45)
for you if you do that again.
Okay. You really are. But family
Kasie (43:46)
First of all, I’m the most social worky person on this podcast, honestly. Yeah.
John (43:56)
Well, that in other words, you take
charge of everybody else’s lives. So that’s what social workers. That was our joke in
Kasie (44:01)
Correct.
Chris (44:03)
Well, we won’t go there, John.
Family Systems is is is something that is a staple in our in our wheelhouse and social work, and it’s really about how systems of people work together. it’s really called systems theory. Look it up, I’m not gonna spend much time on it, but you look at what’s happening in this group, right? And instead of asking who’s screwed up, who’s the selfish one, who’s the jerk.
You know, y you you want to look at like, wait, what happens when we do this? You know, when when when this person does that, what does the other person do? When my brother calls, what does my wife do? When my when my when my grandma, you know, comes over with the chicken, you know, I remember my mom would get so disgusted with my grandma because she would want to put salt on her ham. Okay? Would be sitting down with ham and she’d be like, Can I have this salt? And my mom would be like,
So you don’t need salt on your ham, mom. That was just it was like get an understanding because these things play out. They also play out in patterns with emotion focused therapy. You know? The the cutoffs can look like I don’t need you anymore. I don’t want to deal with your shit anymore. I can’t tolerate this crap. I’ve been putting up with this for years, or whatever kind of frames and of that might come out.
But instead, what you might be saying is, I keep wanting something like you were talking about, Casey. People might not know how to apologize, but they want something special from you that they’re not getting. You know, on the parent side, after everything I’ve done for you, you’re rejecting me. And that’s not what the c the kid is doing. But the the pain that the parent is having, and my goodness, the pain that I see in my therapy office from parents is is deep.
John (45:56)
Yes. It won’t do it.
Chris (45:57)
when they’re struggling with this, by the way.
I have lost my child and I don’t know how to get them back. Desperation that I that I see with this. And so what we’re really dealing with emotion focused therapy gets at like what’s like you were saying, Casey, what are the feelings? Cause they drive it. Figure out the facts. They there’s a lot of hurt. There’s a lot of rejection, pain, shame, grief, abandonment, engulfment, but you know, fears of failure.
Guilt and sh did I say shame already? Longing for what we want, and I’ve idealized. We’re coming up on the holidays. the merry holidays. What a shit show it turns into in our therapy office because it isn’t exactly merry, and people usually don’t get their expectations met in ways are unimaginable, right? So we need to look at these patterns and and and what happens with these. So let me get to
This segment that I think in encompassing all of this, I’m I’m really thinking that we might I’m I’m curious, like I said, what what our our panel will will come up with this. So here’s the question I want us to kick around. The panel question is where we kind of talk about from our own perspectives, you know, this idea of the whole concept of the show, topic of the day, and and what you know, what we’re seeing with this topic. So has therapy culture really helped create healthier.
Family
systems, boundaries, functions? Or has it made it too easy to justify not dealing with the difficult, hard conversations or relationships? Has has has therapy culture, quote, unquote, helped society? Or is it giving justification for poor behavior?
John (47:46)
You know what? You know
Chris (47:47)
Nah.
John (47:48)
what? I I I ye I’m gonna go back to to the my view is that therapy culture has become therapy religion and if it’s reified, that is in other words, if it’s rigid and you you have all the nomenclature and all the words, then no, it’s gonna be very hurtful. But if you have
Chris (48:08)
Yeah.
John (48:09)
therapy culture in terms of helping you to understand
why there might be a disconnect with relatives or you could re examine your your positions and it can be a stimulus for growth. So but y y you you would you can find the alienation in therapy culture very much if it’s a therapy religion and I’m I’m I’m just using that those
that that use of the terms because I I do think that people can worship that and not really and then they don’t they’re not able to really work through their issues as a family and as a or are estranged from loved ones like siblings or even their children or grandchildren.
Chris (49:06)
So which one is it, John? Is is is is the therapy culture helped or hurt?
John (49:10)
I think it can do both. I think it’s a two edged sword. I think it can help a lot. I really do. But I think what our tendency as human beings, and I I I tend to be a Calvinist or reform theology in it is is that we’re we’re if we’re gonna have the the the chance to make the right decision or the wrong decision, we’re going to have a tendency to make the wrong decision and and follow that. But the good news is
Chris (49:39)
You know, I
I get I’m sorry, you y you done
John (49:41)
The good news is
we can overcome that.
Chris (49:46)
Yeah. I I get I get honestly nervous a little bit even just with with through a therapist’s eyes. You know, we we create shorts from this show. So what we do is we we record just from a gut. We we do a little prep, but but this is just a real conversation with with real therapists. But
John (50:00)
One minute. Yeah.
Chris (50:03)
then what we do is we use some software that cuts this conversation up and it creates shorts. And you know, I’m I I look at the comments on the shorts and
I mean like what, like three quarters of the time I’m like that is not what we talked about on the show. It’s not the theme that we were carrying.
John (50:20)
You think
the algorithm may be flawed?
Chris (50:25)
Right? It’s it ends up you know, I get fearful about people arming themselves with intelligent words that that are viable, real and deep emotional issues and then just weaponized.
John (50:41)
They don’t understand
it, so it’s superficial. It’s about an inch deep and maybe two miles wide, but their their understanding is is is truncated.
Chris (50:54)
I think it can be. Casey, join the conversation. We’ve therapy culture, does it help us? Does it does it create healthier relationships? I know it can, obviously. Or does it make it easy to cut things off or to perpetuate unhealthy patterns and such?
Kasie (51:12)
I think that both of you have very valid points here.
John (51:15)
Thank you.
Kasie (51:16)
for me, I would say it’s the intent and the posture of the person when they’re approaching the material. Right? If my intent and posture is to go to, let’s say, social media sites or chat or things like that because I want to rally validation for the things that I’m thinking and feeling, then that can be a very dangerous territory.
Right. If I’m only looking for things that side with what I feel like I’m experiencing, then that’s all I’m gonna find. Kind of like if you go looking for trouble, you will find trouble. Right.
Chris (51:55)
Mm.
Kasie (51:55)
If I go looking for the ammunition, the
you know, only videos and building algorithms for myself based on going no contact with parents and protecting yourselves, arm up yourself with boundaries and all of these things, then that’s all I’m gonna find out there, right? So my cautionary tell in all of this would be one before you hit therapy culture to do some self-inspection.
Where are these questions coming from? Where is this arriving from before I even go and seek out even a therapist, like a live therapist, you know? What is it that I have experienced? Because you want an actual live therapist. Because the truth
John (52:41)
I think
Kasie (52:41)
is that if you’re only looking to like both of you said, if you’re only looking to weaponize yourself and armor up.
Because you’ve already made a decision in your mind and heart, like this is the direction you want to go, then that’s what you’re gonna find. You know? But if you’re looking to get to the root cause of something, to figure out where the hurt is coming from, to understand more of yourself, and you’re seeking out therapeutic tools to assist with that, I think it can be very beneficial.
Chris (53:12)
Are you saying is and maybe this is a an important sort of s pivot and switch and ki and and a and a bit of a key. You know, are you seeking understanding? Right? I I think that’s what I hear you kind of saying.
John (53:25)
Harmony understanding.
Kasie (53:26)
And are you starting
with yourself?
John (53:27)
Yeah.
Chris (53:29)
Yeah. John’s John’s chiming in with another
Kasie (53:29)
Yeah. And are you starting with yourself?
Chris (53:31)
song from Randomly Nowhere. I yeah, I think
John (53:33)
Well, that was from hair.
That was from Hare. It’s in the The Age of Aquarius.
Chris (53:37)
From hair, the movie hair.
I I feel like that’s that’s a key thing. And in in couples counseling, I talk a lot about like, you know, what kind of understanding are you looking for? Do you want to be understood? And are you seeking to understand? And when you when you when you go to a word like projection and you start thinking about is this what I’m doing? Is this what is being done by my spouse? That’s that’s an okay thing to kind of explore and to talk about.
And really honestly to learn together. You think that you know what a narcissist is and you call your wife a narcissist and you pin her on that, i i it it really doesn’t do any good to to go further.
John (54:23)
You’re making her into an object. I’m sorry.
Chris (54:27)
I’m so I’m sorry, what’s that, John?
John (54:29)
You’re making her into an object, a thing. You’re devaluing her. Yeah, you’re yeah.
Chris (54:34)
You you can objectify people, unfortunately.
Right. And but if you’re coming in, I’ve read about narcissism. I heard that you said this, you often think this way. My gosh, that’s such a big word. Do you think this is a part of our relationship? And and and even better, Casey, yeah, if you’re starting with yourself, you know, wouldn’t it be amazing to think? Do I have narcissistic tendencies?
Let me answer that. Yes, sir, you do. Yes, ma’am, you probably do, because narcissism is very, very common in the human emotional experience. But you wouldn’t know that
Kasie (55:12)
Yeah.
Chris (55:12)
if you’re not exploring it.
John (55:13)
Yeah.
Kasie (55:14)
The
the first the first exercise I always do with couples is a reflection piece. And the first question on that reflection piece is, what am I doing that is negatively impacting my relationship right now? That’s the very first question I have that work on.
John (55:29)
Yeah. That’s what I did. That’s what I did.
Kasie (55:33)
is what am I doing? Because that microscopic part is easy for all of us to look and hone in and focus in on what the other person is doing. That mirror part, that reflective part is a lot harder.
Chris (55:50)
Yeah. It’s so funny. I I I love that case, your own point. I mean, early on in the show, I’m not talking about anything that he didn’t publish and talk about himself, but the original co host, Craig Graves, talked about this classically about his experience going through the divorce. He went to my friend and amazing colleague Jeff Shook. Shout out, Jeff, man. You’re you’re still awesome.
and and and he’s Yeah, man, I went to this counseling session, and I tell you what, I just waiting for him to get to her and kind of figure out what she’s doing, and she’s gonna go away. She’s got I mean, you know, we’re gonna dig in and we’re gonna be so much better because he’s gonna tell her to stop this stuff. And he walks out of there. Of course, Jeff being a good therapist, had Craig thinking about three, four, five things that was about him. And he was like shocked with this experience. How many times do we know people are walking out of our office like
With the same intent coming in and then the realization coming out of like, wait, what do I got to look at? You know.
John (56:45)
Mm. Yeah.
Chris (56:47)
Yeah. okay, we yeah, but let’s go ahead and transition to that. I I think that we we we we’ve kind of agreed a little bit. I mean, it it definitely helps. I am so glad that we live in 2026 where we can get information out in mass and people can digest it and begin to understand it. I think you just gotta be really careful about it. And
Hopefully some of the things that we’ve talked about here tonight might give you some thoughts about, you know, how how can I better manage the relationship so I don’t end up in a five-year, two-year, ten year estrangement from somebody like grandma or grandpa that I love dearly. Right. That’s that’s what we want when it’s unnecessary, because again, sometimes it’s an appropriate outcome. We’ve said that a few times through
through the show. So let’s move to practical questions. This is where towards the end of the show we talk to you through the the computer screen. we can’t deliver therapy service, but we can give you provocative practical questions for you to think about you and your life. Casey, I think you might have a a a a question for people.
Kasie (57:54)
So if you’ve cut off a parent, have you clearly communicated what would need to change in order for that relationship to become possible again? And I think this is an important question and here’s why. One, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Right? You you can’t know what you don’t know. And I think oftentimes when this level of hurt comes to be or this level of situation is happening and there has been a call to action, which is the separation of the relationship, whether it’s in the short term or the long term, I think that in that arena.
in therapy we call it distortions, but a lot of times things settle into our brain and we automatically start thinking things about the other person without even communicating those things. Like they should know by my lack of response, or they should reach out, or they should do this, or they should know that. But the truth is is you don’t always know what you don’t know.
And so if this is where you’re at and there is a fissure in the relationship between you and a parent, have you clearly communicated what an access point would look like, what that rejoining the relationship would look like, or what the expectations around some type of reconnection would look like. And and if you do that, it may be possible again that you can reconnect.
Chris (59:28)
Mr John Pope, what kind
John (59:31)
You know.
Chris (59:32)
of practical question might you have for the the massa of people?
John (59:35)
I’m of that age.
I’m a grandfather and I have children that are adults and so I I’m gonna answer this question if
As an as an adult child, your adult child has cut you off. Are you trying to understand their experience? Are you able to walk in their shoes? Are you able to stand outside of yourself and admit that you might be constricted by your language and by your in other words, having your your understanding of what always was would and and the way it used to be?
b putting blinders on you so that you’re not able to talk to your your child. you’re going to you’re going to question and not respect that their version of events might you’re going to say it’s wrong when in fact it may not be. And part of that is humility on both sides. Humility as Casey lined it out as as an adult child.
and humility on the part of a parent. And as a result of that shared humility, you could also have shared forgiveness. Forgiveness of yourself, forgiveness of the other. And then you can begin that reconciliation and building a relationship. Rebuilding.
Chris (1:01:13)
Very rarely do I like to try to convict someone or you know be direct in a way that is assumptive or anything along those lines. But I really want to say, really simply and straight to you, through the computer screen, through the earphones, through the tablet that you might be using, can you acknowledge someone in your family’s hurt? Can you acknowledge their pain?
without agreeing with their entire interpretation of what happened. Right? It’s a it’s a point blank question to you. And and and I ask that with with with humility and compassion because that’s a hard thing to do, particularly when you’re hot or hurt or in in a pain space. Can you acknowledge that the other person has
Some emotion going on as well. And not argue and fight and try to be right about the interpretation of what actually happened. Because the facts really are perceived experiences. They’re not necessarily such a simple experience of a fact. We like to throw that around in couples counseling though all the time. We hear that stuff, don’t we, guys?
all right, we’re gonna move, we’re gonna wrap up to our closing segment where we like to do a friendly competition where we do a shrink wrap up. Neil gets to judge, determine who made the most sense or connected with a theme. It’s taking all the concepts of the show, taking all the thoughts that we’ve shared.
John (1:02:53)
He’s Thanos. You s you’re Thanos. Yeah.
Chris (1:02:58)
my goodness, what’s that, John?
John (1:02:59)
He’s Spanos. He’s gonna decide Spanos, yeah.
Kasie (1:03:02)
Than us.
Chris (1:03:04)
What does that even mean?
Kasie (1:03:07)
The Avengers.
John (1:03:08)
the Avengers.
Neil (1:03:08)
Th
Thanos
Chris (1:03:09)
See.
Neil (1:03:09)
was Thanos was fifty fifty random. He tried to make it as fair as possible, so I make I’m clearly making a choice here who goes and who stays. So I’m
Kasie (1:03:18)
Ha ha.
Neil (1:03:18)
I’m different than Thanos by a little bit. Exactly.
John (1:03:19)
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (1:03:22)
Okay, Neil is Thanos. I’m sorry, John, I wasn’t connecting. All right, who wants to go first?
John (1:03:29)
You know, I’m gonna go first.
Chris (1:03:30)
New new call mat.
John (1:03:31)
I’m gonna call I’m gonna go first. I I I wanna say that we’re given a crisis, I think. I think people have noticed and I think the reason why it shows up in the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal, these stories of estrangement between children and their parents and other loved ones, even grandparents.
is because there is an issue and there is a problem. But with every problem there is an opportunity. And I think that this is an opportunity to step outside of yourself and out step outside of your heart, acknowledge it, but also to be able to do repro to reapproach that loved one that has been has you have separated yourself from or you
Feel separated from your child or whatever. And you go and you have an honest dialogue and you come with humility and love in your your heart, in your hands, and you say, I’m not perfect. I want to listen. I want to hear. I want to be able to help.
Chris (1:04:52)
Casey, you wanna hit it or you want me to go?
Kasie (1:04:55)
Sure, I I I can go. So, I mean, first and foremost,
Chris (1:04:58)
Yeah.
Kasie (1:04:59)
I hope that if you take anything away from today’s episode, you realize that in no way, shape, or form are we saying that just because someone is part of your family, that it’s just this free pass for them to treat you however they want to and still have full access to your life. That’s not what we’re communicating here. What we’re saying is that in a family dynamic, there’s often multiple layers of things that are going on simultaneously.
And when those things are interacting with each other, there can be a generation of hurt feelings or thoughts and behaviors from both sides that tend to be stressful or or even harmful at times. You know, adult children, when they’re cutting ties with family, it’s not often about like that they don’t love their family.
Or that they don’t necessarily even respect their family. it’s more about wanting to create an environment of emotional safety for themselves. So if you are an adult child out there and you want to create that environment of emotional safety, then I think it’s worth inspecting what it is that doesn’t feel safe to you and what that looks like moving forward and clearly communicating what you need to the other party.
Whether they take that, hear that, do something about it, that’s on a different level, which is another part of the conversation. So if you’re an adult out there whose adult child has cut ties with you, I think it’s really important to focus more on not defending the position of who you were then.
But instead inspecting who you can be now and what that would look like in the context of the life of your adult child and really work on that reparative work with them, whether that is taking some accountability or like John said, just really being in communication about what needs to happen to move it forward. Really focusing on the now is important because you can’t rebuild a bridge by focusing on who you used to be.
Chris (1:07:04)
Start my wrap out like Casey did with the the validation of the reason for estrangement can be very valid. abuse, neglect, you know, being hurt and harmed just because they’re a family member or a friend of a family member doesn’t mean you continue to associate with them. You know, we haven’t talked about alcoholism and drug addiction, but you have a child that is involved in drug and alcohol addictions, it may be necessary to sever a relationship.
With that person for a time. It’s literally what we do in intervention. So there are viable situations, but when we do anything along those lines, you have to be very careful and thorough. These are important relationships. I’ve often maintained that siblings are one of the most important relationships to have because when your parents die, they’re the only people that have known you your entire life, other than your parents. And so
Your parents, grandparents, intergenerational relationships are really grounding. And in a time that that the world seems so upside down sometimes, we need that grounding. We need that we need that stability. you know, my brother drives me nuts. I love him to death, but he drives me crazy. But I value that relationship so much with a mother in memory care and a dad is deceased and
In-laws that have turned to ex-laws. I mean, man, it’s it can be so unstabilizing. So seek understanding. Don’t seek to win. Seek clarity. You know, seek compassion to understand the compassion that the other person is hurting too, so that we can kind of get an understanding and develop new ground. And that ground that you develop now actually has seeds to bear intergenerationally in a positive way.
moving forward for your younger generations and generations that haven’t even come yet. That’s the level of impact that we’re having. So you can do it. You can do it.
John (1:09:12)
Okay.
Chris (1:09:13)
Mr. Neil gets to lair it out, I guess. Take us out.
Neil (1:09:18)
Well, I thought it was gonna be Casey’s and then Chris you kinda came in at the end with what that that closing statement you said and I I I would have to say that the sibling sibling thing threw me off, but I think it’s a very key point in families. I love that. But at the end you said, you know, seek compassion, sees seek understanding, see like the goal of what you’re doing in your relationships, Chris, you knocked it out of the park.
I would say that you probably did yours because Casey and Johns went before and and built up this whole thing for you. So I dunno if
John (1:09:46)
Thank you.
Neil (1:09:46)
I can say it’s all you, but man, Chris, that was a great way to close it. You got it this time.
Chris (1:09:52)
I appreciate it. It’s an important topic and and and one that, like I said, you know, it it is a trend, maybe, and and something that hopefully we’ve got some some nuggets throughout the show. Refer it to a friend, y’all. And particularly if you’re in estrangement with a family member, refer it to them. Take care. Stay well. We’ll see you next week.
Kasie (1:10:14