In Episode 315 of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we uncover the transformative power of relationships – how the right connections can literally rewire your brain and heal your body. With special guest Alicia, the producer’s wife, we take a heartfelt and science-backed look at why emotional closeness, trust, and empathy aren’t just comforting – they’re essential to our mental and physical health. From the brain’s mirror neurons to the calming effect of a simple hug, you’ll learn how relationships regulate stress, boost immunity, and shape our sense of purpose. Packed with personal stories, expert insight, and practical steps, this episode shows that healing doesn’t always come in a bottle—sometimes, it comes from the people who walk beside us.
Tune in to see the Healing Power of Relationships Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- What relationship in your life has had the most positive impact on your well‑being?
- When have you felt supported or healed by someone close to you – and how did it affect you?
- What’s one small step you could take today to strengthen a bond in your social circle?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/marriageandfamily
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/relationshiptoothers
https://uthealthaustin.org/blog/health-benefits-of-love?utm_source=chatgpt.com
https://academic.oup.com/her/article-abstract/29/5/822/596276?redirectedFrom=fulltext
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/relationships?utm_source=chatgpt.com
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/relationships?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #315 Transcription
Neil Robinson: I feel like this, she’s, she’s dying to get me on the spot and everything, so, but no, this is my wife Alicia Robinson. We’ve been married for 21 years. She is my better half. She does have a degree in early childhood education and bachelor’s in psychology.
She’s the main reason why our two boys age 16 to 19 are the way that they are and how awesome they are. Because, like alive? No, they’re awesome. Okay. So, but yeah. Yeah, they’re alive. She’s
Chris Gazdik: the reason they’re alive. Neil.
Neil Robinson: Yep. And, and now that they’ve kind of grown up and kind of doing their own thing, now she’s, she’s turned her attention to art.
You can check her out@purplelillyart.com. Amazing, amazing stuff that she’s creating.
Chris Gazdik: What? Where?
Neil Robinson: Purple Lilly art.com.
Chris Gazdik: See, they say if you say it three [00:02:00] times, that people get it. So, Alicia, where is this?
Alicia Robinson: Purple lillard.com. See? Alright. We see, we work together.
Neil Robinson: So, but yeah, it’s exciting. Like, you know, everything failed today.
And I asked her, I said, honey, do you wanna do the show? Like you wanna do it? And she, she hesitated. So as soon as she hesitated, that was the window. I had a chance because she, I’ve learned either she’s gonna do it or not. Yeah. And if she says, if she doesn’t say no. There’s a chance.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. So we nailed it.
Neil Robinson: So yeah, she’s here today and I’m excited to share the couch with her. Yay.
Chris Gazdik: This is fun. Yeah, absolutely. It’s fun for you guys. We did everything failed like I was gonna have my son on and that didn’t work out. And then John was sick. And then the backup. Miss Carrie that’s been on the show before, she was.
Just got back into the town and then Victoria had her childcare blow up at the last second. So yeah, it’s been, it’s been a pretty wild day. But we are going to get it going. We are going to ask you to subscribe. John wants you to give us five stars, not three stars, not two stars, [00:03:00] not four stars. He gets
Alicia Robinson: five.
Chris Gazdik: He gets really upset. If we don’t do the five. Click the bell notifications. Look we do. Free show for you. Hopefully entertain a little bit, get you some good content about mental health and substance abuse. Your job is to kind of tell somebody get a subscriber on YouTube live, which we have a new subscriber.
Welcome to Deborah Lewis. Who is a new YouTube subscriber, Deborah, welcome aboard. And that just happened like right before the show, so that was kind of cool. This is the human emotional experience, which we do, Alicia and Deborah, to figure out together. And you’re gonna play the game today.
Alicia Robinson: Okay. Let’s do this.
All right, here
Chris Gazdik: we go. Anything else by the way, in it’s a way of introduction seriously. That you’d like to know. You have the undergraduate in psychology and what was the other degree you got?
Alicia Robinson: Early childhood education. Yeah. Which is basically birth to kindergarten.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Alicia Robinson: We talk about cognitive, I mean basically it’s everything you need to know about a child’s development from the [00:04:00] time that they’re born to the time that they go to kindergarten.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Alicia Robinson: We talk about cognitive things. It’s a, I mean, it’s a small dive into psychology, even that early on. We talk about physical health and wellbeing of children. Yeah. Thank you. I’ll tell you why. That’s
Chris Gazdik: perfect. Honestly, because the, the genesis of this particular show, this is a, this was like on the list of shows, like from the original list that I think I developed, which would, it’s one of the reasons why we’ve never redone a whole lot of content besides planned redo contents of emotion focused therapy and moral courage.
I think there’s oh, and love and logic, but the genesis of this so long ago was my thinking about how frustrating it is that doctors in medical care tend to spend so little time through doctor patient relationship now. Yeah. Like you, you go to a doctor’s office. Honestly, I’m gonna go hang out with, with my guy Dr.
O’Leary here in, in a, in [00:05:00] a week, in a month, and it’s a full annual evaluation. And I will actually have a half an hour or so because he’s an awesome clinician. But how often do you get any time with your doctor?
Alicia Robinson: Not, I mean, not really. Not very much.
Chris Gazdik: Right. And in psychiatry we have like five minute med checks.
That’s about it. So the reason why it’s so cool doing what you do is kids specifically and especially do not have cognitive ability that is developed. So they are just about pretty well a hundred percent experiential. Yeah. Would you, would you agree?
Alicia Robinson: Everything is a new experience? Mm-hmm. Until, I mean, I don’t know, but once we get to a certain age, we get into our routines and exper new experiences happen very, very seldom.
And as children, your brain, their brains are just constantly firing with new experiences and. [00:06:00] Yeah. Relationships, which are what we’re talking about, are so important in that time because Yeah, my bad.
Chris Gazdik: It’s just an experience. Yeah. It’s new experience. Like there’s literally two pieces of the brain. Mm-hmm.
There’s, there’s the, this is the brain. I do this from a conference you see on the YouTube live. Right. You peel your frontal cortex off. You got the emotion center literally on the stem. Mm-hmm. You know, your, your, your spinal cord comes up and on the stem of the brain is the emotion center. You know, the ect, I have hypo what is it called?
Hypothalamus and, yeah, all of that stuff, adrenal glands and. And the frontal cortex is like the thinking, the cognition, the abstract reasoning. They don’t have that yet.
Alicia Robinson: Not yet. Like it’s
Chris Gazdik: not really even online.
Alicia Robinson: Right. It’s slowly, slowly developing with every little experience they have.
Chris Gazdik: So, but this emotion center
Alicia Robinson: Yes.
It’s full on.
Chris Gazdik: Full on.
Alicia Robinson: Yep.
Chris Gazdik: So it’s children that young, especially, that’s why we can draw on your experience, are really getting into this. Mm-hmm. Powerful observation. Mm-hmm. And full [00:07:00] experience. Mm-hmm. Of just now. Yeah. The moment.
Alicia Robinson: Yep. Yep. Yeah. It’s beautiful. It
Chris Gazdik: really is. It is. Yeah. So we’ll, we’ll weave that in.
That’s pretty cool. Neil, what are you thinking over there? We got Neil Robinson coming out behind the. The curtain for this particular episode.
Neil Robinson: I’m just gonna listen. It’s just you
Chris Gazdik: are not capable. Yeah. You can’t do that.
Neil Robinson: I can try.
Alicia Robinson: You’ll add your 2 cents and then 30 cents in a buck after a while.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, probably.
I like to hear myself talk.
Chris Gazdik: So, just for you, since we did that, I’ll put you on the spot again. Since you did that what relationship in your life had had the most positive impact on your wellbeing? You can’t say her.
Neil Robinson: I, I have to say her.
Chris Gazdik: You can’t say him and he can’t say you. Can we make that agreement?
That’s just too obvious.
Alicia Robinson: I wasn’t gonna say him. I’ll share mine in a minute though. What? You are a big, you are a big part of it. But I wasn’t gonna say you,
Chris Gazdik: you could say her. I guess now that she’s dissing. I’m just [00:08:00] kidding. Alright, I need to butt out. What is the,
Neil Robinson: after this gonna have, we’re gonna have couple of therapy after this.
Personally, I think we’re gonna maybe so I mean. I have a buddy Brian that I do a lot of stuff with right now that has been really positive. You know, as a business owner, as a friend, as someone who I only knew for a short time, like my shortest job I ever had. I worked with him and then after like six years of disconnect, we got connected again.
I think he’s really helped me the last like, you know, six or seven or eight years, how long it’s been. So that’s been probably the most biggest, like most recent friend. And we have a really, really good bond. We’ve done a lot of hiking, rocking together. We’ve, you know, I think we’ve grown together. So that’s, that’s probably be the one person I can think of recently that really kind of stands out to me.
Chris Gazdik: Perfect.
Neil Robinson: So,
Chris Gazdik: well, I can make it. I, I, I, I actually, I’m looking forward to answering that because, you know, you know, I’ve talked about on the show we’ve been having a, a major life development with mom. So, you know, my mom has been in [00:09:00] a dementia care unit. I don’t know if you know that actually. Yeah, yeah.
Neil’s
Alicia Robinson: told me about it. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, yeah. So, so she’s, she’s into, into memory. Memory care, dementia, you know, unit, which is just horrible. I mean, there’s just nothing good about that. It’s just, it’s just horrible. But it has made me think a lot about her in so many different ways. And so I’ve been, when I tell people you know about, you know, my mom and all, and I’ll say, yeah, it’s tough because when we were kids, or I should speak just for myself, when I was a kid going through the divorce situation as a kid with my family, in the following years, nothing was okay.
And she made everything okay. That’s the way I like to think of her now. You know, so it was pretty special for me to answer that question. And, and, and that’s in so many ways, you know, mom made everything okay when nothing seemed okay financially and dealing with your own self-esteem. And as a matter of fact, you know, every, everybody, I’m gonna ramble on about my mom for a minute.
She’s awesome. Because, you know, I remember one particular time when [00:10:00] I was going through all of that, my confidence was just wrecked and didn’t, and I literally was like walking down a sidewalk and my head was like down to the ground. It was like I was looking at the ground and I was like, I’m, I’m, she must have clued into that.
I don’t remember being depressed, per se, but you know what she did? She looked at me, she says, Hey, did you see that girl back there? And I was like, no, no, I didn’t see any, I dunno what she’s talking about. She’s like, well, she was checking you out. Of course. I know there probably was no girl there. I still didn’t see what she was talking about.
Maybe there was, maybe there wasn’t. But you know what mom was doing, right? Yeah,
Alicia Robinson: yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. She was awesome.
Alicia Robinson: That’s awesome. I don’t know
Chris Gazdik: if I’ve hardly ever told that story now. I just told it to the world. Your
Neil Robinson: mom’s really fun. Your mom was your original wingman. Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: man.
Alicia Robinson: You know, she was, sometimes mom should be the wingman.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you wouldn’t answer if you want to or if you, well you said you had an answer. Yeah. Who’s who’s the person
Alicia Robinson: maybe
Chris Gazdik: or a [00:11:00] person?
Alicia Robinson: Was it two years ago when I met Hadley?
Neil Robinson: Don’t ask me. I don’t know. I think it
Alicia Robinson: was two years ago. I don’t know. She just, we worked in Michael’s. She came in and it was like this immediate like magnetism between us.
Like, you know, you have people that like, they just, you push ’em away and you just stay away from me. Her and I just immediately were drawn to each other. Cool. There were so much positive energy between the two of us and we’ve slowly become more and more friends and I mean, I’m not saying that I have ever really had a bad self-esteem in myself.
I’ve always been the kind of person that’s like, I know I’m beautiful. I don’t care what you think. Because it doesn’t matter to me. Like if I think I’m beautiful, doesn’t matter. Okay. Awesome. I love that. But there’s a lot of times, especially when you hang out around women and I, women know what I’m talking about.
Some other women sometimes make you feel bad about yourself. They really do.
Chris Gazdik: It’s pretty snarky, isn’t it? They,
Alicia Robinson: they have a hard time of building up other women. Mm. And she, when I [00:12:00] first met her, she was like, Alicia, I love you and I think you are so beautiful. And that’s the first time a woman other than like my mom or sister has told me that.
And I was just like. Yeah, thank you. Hadley like that lifted me up and built me up and she’s just such a special person to me, so, yeah.
Chris Gazdik: You know, I love that. Thank you for sharing. ’cause that really is powerful. You know, at Pat McAfee show on E-S-P-N-I, I love watching him. He’s hyper as hell, but he is super funny.
Great sports information, but he always says, say something nice to a friend, you might change their life. Yeah. That’s his, that’s his phrase. That’s his, his stick. And you know, and he just throws it out there real nice and hyper like he does, you know, say something nice to a friend. You might change their life and that’s, you’d ever know.
And, and because that is a very powerful, you know, even more than my mom, I would, I would say moment, right? Yeah. Mom had more relationship with us. But that’s a good moment.
Alicia Robinson: It was a good moment. It was a very good moment.
Chris Gazdik: I love that. That’s, that’s really [00:13:00] neat. This, this really, this is an interesting show topic, I think, because I don’t know that.
People think about this dynamic a whole lot or realize truly just like that moment at Hobby Lobby, the indelible Michael’s powerful impact. Michael’s don’t say Hobby Lobby. It was Michael’s. Michael’s. That is bad. Not Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby’s the competitor for Yes. Michaelangelo Michaels. Michael Michaels.
Michaels. Okay. Michaels. Thank you Neil for saving me there. Now I lost my toilet train of thought. Sorry. I
Neil Robinson: know I killed the moment.
Chris Gazdik: The moment in Michael’s is something, like I said, the power in relationships. I don’t think people. People realize thus the genesis of doctors evaluating. And by the way, this show has a lot of show notes on it for whatever reason.
I don’t know. There was just, I think it was a weird topic, not exactly about therapy per se, but the, the power of what we try to foster and facilitate. So there’s a lot of of different references. We, [00:14:00] we wanted, I’ll put it in here for this, but, you know, being able to enjoy that powerful moment and things like with my mom and things like with your friend Rucking this is what doctors are studying.
They’re not, they’re realizing like you don’t have any time with the patient anymore. And that there’s a lot of reasons. Look, don’t hold me to this, but there, there are a lot of reasons why our healthcare has gone down. But we are like, do you know, we were talking about it in, at a lunch yesterday at a, for a men’s conference.
We’re going to, our life expectancy as Americans has actually gone down. Yeah. Crazy. If you ask me, like, I, I know we’re all around the world, so great. You guys have better statistics than us around the world. What is that? You know, and I, and I think there are multiple reasons for that. This being, I don’t know, it seems to me a, a good, you know, explanation as an important part of that whole dynamic.
Alicia Robinson: Does that make sense? Yeah. Doctors are just looking [00:15:00] for those surface layer symptoms that they can, you know, bandaid, I guess. And if you took more time to talk to them and discuss with them, then maybe you’re seeing that this, what they’re presenting as a symptom actually. Is a symptom of something else that’s actually more pressing, you know?
And it’s not really, I mean, it’s just they are missing a lot I think by not communicating
Chris Gazdik: more so than, than that. Or that also as well, you may find more data, you may find more information, you’re definitely gonna get more conversation if you spend time. But I mean, just so far as literally sitting in the room with a doctor that you trust,
Alicia Robinson: well that is hard too.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Alicia Robinson: Because we, I just had this discussion with Neil. It had been a while be since I had gone to doctors and I went back to the doctor that I had seen, I don’t know, probably been. Five years, I don’t remember. And it was very outside of the fact that when I went the first time, she diagnosed [00:16:00] me with hyperthyroidism, which I’m not doing.
I’m doing my own way of handling it instead of taking the medication. That’s for a different topic. Gotcha. Topic. We’re not gonna talk about that. But I told her, I said, I don’t wanna take the medication. I’m gonna change my diet. I’m gonna work out, we’re going to, you know, I’m gonna do different things.
Before this, but she, she just did one blood test.
Chris Gazdik: Mm.
Alicia Robinson: One blood test and said, I have thyroid problems. Okay. And it was like, that’s really not enough to tell me what’s going on. ’cause maybe my hormones were just different that day.
Chris Gazdik: Right. And boy, don’t give me started on you. Oh, I know. Yeah.
Alicia Robinson: Boy, we talk about hormones all the time.
Do you? I love that. ’cause I’m in the perimenopausal state right now. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: joy. Good for you.
Alicia Robinson: And so, yeah, hormones are crazy. But thinking about the fact that she was okay with that,
Chris Gazdik: actually, can I just comment on that moment? Yes, go
Alicia Robinson: ahead.
Chris Gazdik: I love the fact that we can actually interact with that. You know, about 10 years ago, there would’ve been no way I would’ve taken that leap.
So thankfully it’s so much better. It is better. Yeah, no, absolutely. And good and good timing [00:17:00] for you, I guess.
Alicia Robinson: But so, and I was thinking like, I don’t know what to trust anymore because she’s not gonna give me any other way other than the word me, medicine, you know, not that I don’t trust her, but. She also only knows what they taught her in medical school.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
Alicia Robinson: And are they allowed to go outside of the, you know, it’s just, it’s a big complicated mess right now. Think so. You used one of
Chris Gazdik: the words, trust, intimacy and compassion are tools.
Alicia Robinson: Mm-hmm.
Chris Gazdik: For medicine.
Alicia Robinson: They should be,
Chris Gazdik: right? Mm-hmm.
Alicia Robinson: Yeah. Where’s your head
Chris Gazdik: at? You’re quiet over there. You said you were just gonna listen.
You’re actually doing that. I need to pull you in. You know, I won’t let that. Well,
Neil Robinson: it goes back to what we’ve talked about in previous shows, the isolation of, of our society, right? You know, you think about those things where, you know, people don’t have intimacy, compassion, like the dehumanizing of everyone is becoming harder and harder, right?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Neil Robinson: You’re not looking at what the person really [00:18:00] needs. They’re looking at symptoms and give you medication for it. They’re not really looking at, maybe instead of, you know, maybe you don’t have anxiety, maybe you just need to talk to someone. Right? You know, maybe it’s not depression, maybe you just need connection.
Like, you know, those are those things. They just get overlooked. And I think part of the issue is today society, it’s all about, you know, what do I want? And I don’t care about how I can help someone, or I don’t want to ask for help, and like it really is. Our American society is, we’re very isolated. It goes back to the idea of front porch society versus a back porch society.
Chris Gazdik: And, you know, I don’t know. I wanna say, I mean, I’m not an expert on cultures around the world, but, but honestly, I put a lot onto the social media kind of dynamics and the way that we’re more connected in ways that we never had dreamed possible, but feeling less connected than we ever have, I suspect in the history of man.
Mm-hmm. I mean, think about that elisa, the com, that that is a de that’s a, such a disparity. That of what I just said.
Alicia Robinson: Yeah. It, I don’t know. It almost
Chris Gazdik: doesn’t seem possible.
Alicia Robinson: I know it’s a weird concept to think about my friend, like the whole dating [00:19:00] app thing, you know? Oh gosh,
Chris Gazdik: yes.
Alicia Robinson: I mean, you can’t even meet somebody in person anymore.
I mean, you can’t, I mean, I’m sure you can. There are ways, but I mean, we’ve been married for 21 years and the idea of if anything ever happened to him, I’m like, what the heck would I do? It’s,
Chris Gazdik: it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s rough out there. They tell me, you know? Yeah, I know. It’s totally different. Yeah. And you do swipe, swipe, swipe app, switch to another app, switch to another Facebook.
It’s, it’s, it’s a lot. Think, think about those words though for a minute with me. Intimacy, trust, compassion. Like what happens truly in, in relationships. You know, you, you talk about. Reducing stress and depression and anxiety, like this is the outcome and it’s literally just through relating to people.
Mm-hmm. Just through like think about how you feel when you receive compassion from somebody. When you, when you receive, I mean, you receive a wonderfully firming compliment. Mm-hmm. [00:20:00] Or. You know, trust. Like if I’m with you, Neil, and I know you got my back and you know I got my back. R six is protected. That is, what does that do to your chemicals in your body, to your emotions?
What does that do? Literally to the inflammation that you have in your heart chamber? Like that’s how dynamic this can be.
Alicia Robinson: Yeah. It’s huge with children especially because when you have kids who do not feel safe at home and they have to find a place to feel safe, you notice the difference as soon as they walk in somewhere where they feel safe, it is a physical change in their appearance, the way they behave, the foods they eat.
Like it’s a big difference when they’re, when they feel safe.
Chris Gazdik: And the challenge to be in that space in the moment because it takes more to feel safe. Yeah. Do you know what my brain just did listening to you on ropes courses? Yeah. Okay. These are outdoor activities that people, you know, will engage in, like for group [00:21:00] dynamics, companies will come in or whatever.
So therapy people will engage and lead these programs their whole day programs, essentially. Well, I was talking to one of these ropes course people who’s always been an interest of mine ’cause I like being outdoors and all. And he, he, he described for me, what he observes, and there’s so many observations.
Yeah. For instance, a lot of the activities have involve physical touch. Right? So I’m, I’m not gonna reach across the room and, and try to grab your hand, but when, when Neil and I are grabbing hands, right? If you get a shake like this at a light, barely touching, not wanting to do that, that person clues into, mm-hmm.
Oh, we have sexual abuse quite likely here. Because the other way is we can squeeze, bam, there’s, there’s a, a tight grasp, a full grasp. We’re connected. We’re not worried about that. That is because of what your experiences are. So do you have the ability to feel safe? Yeah. Do you have the ability to engage?
Do you have the willingness to be open? [00:22:00] Then you get those benefits. But to your point. It can also be closed even from the get go.
Alicia Robinson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And that can be literally observed. It’s powerful stuff going on because now we could talk about physical touch hugging, hand shaking, you know, like, isn’t it, when’s the last time you went into a doctor’s office and greeted a nurse or anybody with a hug, I imagine
Neil Robinson: since, definitely not since COVID.
Chris Gazdik: Right? Right. I, I’m actually, that was a fresh thought in the real moment. I’m trying to think of how often that’s happened in my life. Like, I think it’s true to say that that happened before I.
Alicia Robinson: What do y’all remember
Chris Gazdik: is that
Alicia Robinson: I don’t, I don’t remember ever being hugged, but I’m sure in small communities that’s how they would Well, I’m from
Chris Gazdik: West Virginia.
Yeah, right.
Alicia Robinson: So, ’cause I mean, you know, you have one doctor’s office in a very small community. I’m sure you know everybody. And they would hug, but in a bigger, because it, Hickory was a bigger place and my doctor saw a lot of patients. So I don’t think [00:23:00] that or any of the nurses would ever do that. Yeah, I don’t remember that.
Chris Gazdik: See, I go back a little ways and I’m pretty sure that, that that was a, a thing, you know, there’d be greetings. There’s certainly more, more handshakes and Right. Pre COVID fears of, you know, weren’t, weren’t there but touch, physical, touch, literally heels. What was that movie? Neil Robin Williams was in Patch Adams.
You ever see Patch Adams
Neil Robinson: Great movie. Yeah. Fantastic movie. What do you remember
Chris Gazdik: from Patch Adams? And what was his attitude about all of this?
Neil Robinson: You might know better than that.
Alicia Robinson: I know that with Patch Adams, he wanted people to laugh because he totally saw laughter as a form of medicine and he would make his patients laugh and you know, he would do the magic tricks where he was like pulling things behind his he, stuff like that, which could go into physical touch.
But yeah, I mean it was very positive laughing environment. Yeah. It was
Neil Robinson: more, it was more about the re it was going back, it was about the relationships, you [00:24:00] know, building the trust
Alicia Robinson: and the intimacy with your patients. Yeah. And having
Neil Robinson: compassion for them. And compassion for all the people that were around them.
The other patients. Like it was really, when you think about the little hospital he made, it was like more of a communal house, more than it was a clinical office. Right. It was a lot different dynamic than what you would see from at the, the big hospital that he, that didn’t like him. Right. So,
Chris Gazdik: and they didn’t like him because he stamped out the, the he, he didn’t subscribe to the prec, you know, the pre-prescribed, formal, distant, authoritative kind of style that the medical profession has had, which does go back for a long time.
But here’s a different question. See, you haven’t been hugged Alicia in a doctor’s office. How many times do you really laugh? Do you really whoop it up? I mean, is there many laughing events in doctor’s office anymore? Not in mine.
Alicia Robinson: In the boys’ doctor’s office pediatrics, he, he’s really good. He talks to them about Pokemon and all the games that they play, and they laugh and they enjoy it.
He’s very good with the kids.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, love that. But in
Alicia Robinson: [00:25:00] an adult doctor’s office, why?
Chris Gazdik: Why not? You don’t laugh anymore. I can tell you, you used to all the time. It was, you know, somebody’s gonna crack a joke. Well, I
Neil Robinson: mean, you think about it, you know, now with doctors, you get 15 minutes with the patient. Usually you’re running behind because of all the other stuff.
You’re the doctor’s too stressed to probably crack a joke. Right? Right.
Chris Gazdik: And you
Neil Robinson: think about, and then you’re sitting in there waiting. If they’re late, then night you get irritated. That’s not a, that’s not an atmosphere that’s gonna spawn any healthy relationships or jokes or humor.
Chris Gazdik: Right. Or be conducive of healing.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, exactly.
Chris Gazdik: In that doctor’s office, we are going to decrease the healing effects. Think about that. Seriously, like, I don’t know. I’m starting to get upset. I’m starting to get bothered by this topic here today, because honestly, if you want to get a little sciencey on this, what ends up happening when you have a hug?
Receive a hug or give a hug, have a compliment or a moment in Michael’s or a trail. I love being on a trail and [00:26:00] honestly, my mom has dementia. Going back to all of our original question answers, I love those moments when I get to see her. I value these pictures. Mm-hmm. Like tremendously when I, when I do get to hug her or whatever, like I am soaking all of that in because.
It decreases cortisol. Mm-hmm. It decreases your body’s reactions that have stress hormones, adrenaline, you know, you ever hear that dog’s best friend or man’s best friend you know, is your dog and how petting a dog, they don’t, they have statistic that say that, you know, you live longer. You, yeah. Reduce your stress and all that kind of reality.
Yeah. It’s with a dog. Think about how more powerful that is with another human.
Neil Robinson: Well, well, this goes back to the other part. Social media, online, stimulations, all of that stuff. It increases your dopamine when you’re in a constant state of dopamine production, it increases your cortisol. So now you have this double whammy over here, being isolated in social media with technology, all those things.
But then you’re not getting the [00:27:00] physical touch to help bring you back down. Right? Right. Wow. There’s this, and so you talk about how everything’s tied together in society and you, you know, we’re dying because one, we’re either killing ourselves or we’re isolating ourselves, and we don’t actually take the time to decrease cortisol ’cause high cortisol and long, long-term exposure, tears your body down.
Chris Gazdik: Like, I don’t know. I’m not an expert on it. I have heard this. Do. Do you guys know much about it? I don’t know if you’re into food or. You know the, the real effects of that. I just want to go into that deeper. Do you have
Neil Robinson: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Say a little more about that then.
Neil Robinson: Well, when you look at your body’s the good chemicals versus the bad chemicals, like we know Robert in our group does the whole testosterone and stuff with his clinic and stuff like that.
And the one thing you have to look at it from those pieces is your body has to be receptive of the good hormones. And cortisol is one of those hormones that are there for fight or flight. But the problem is it’s designed to be there and then go away, right? If you don’t do anything to get rid of cortisol, and there’s a lot of food that we eat that keeps our cortisol up or increases it, [00:28:00] so it changes your diet, which helps you then reduce your cortisol, then allows your body to produce and absorb things like testosterone and those types of things that we all need to handle.
So our diet to go with our behaviors of social media fluctuates that cortisol level, which means once again. How stressed are you? How, how fast can you recover? You know, can you go from a bad situation to a good situation because your cortisol levels are adjusted and and balanced, right? So it’s a huge thing that I think people just don’t understand.
And with like processed foods and all that other stuff that most people ingest, it just kills your body and it just increases cortisol and it blocks you from the good chemicals.
Chris Gazdik: I feel like our knowledge of the endocrine system and dietetics and minerals, food, diet, dietary, all of that is just it. This is the next bastion of science, like a lot of mental health.
And a whole [00:29:00] lot of medical, I think as well, is gonna be figured out when we get our little hands and fingers and figure out these systems. Because I’m just listening to you and I was thinking like, yeah, like that is, that is really amazing. On a chronic level, what are you doing? We know about the amygdala in fight or flight.
What are you doing? What is your body gonna feel like if you’re in a chronic state of that? Because that’s, oh, go ahead. Yeah. Well,
Alicia Robinson: you know, like with my kids, because now they’re, they’re playing these like horror video games, you know? Yeah. My 9-year-old, my 9-year-old nephew is doing it. Right. They’re not getting scared.
They’re not jumping at these things that should be scaring them. Are they not? No, not really. Really, because. They’re constantly have their hormones. They’re they got That’s fascinating. Yeah. And so that might scare ’em and they might like shake a little, but it’s not, ’cause you know, when you used to go to a movie and you would watch a horror movie and it would Oh, startled out.
Oh. Mean they would scream, you know, no, it’s like this little shake and they’re like, oh. [00:30:00] And it’s slowly getting where they react Less, less and less and less. I haven’t
Neil Robinson: noticed that at all. Yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Just think about what our kids are like when they first started some of those games and how I could walk up and be like, ah.
And they’d like, but now it’s like, oh hey, you know, it’s different.
Alicia Robinson: Well, and then think about when you’re constantly. At that level all the time. And then finally you stop being at that level and you’re like, I don’t know how I feel now.
Chris Gazdik: But you crack
Alicia Robinson: because you feel depleted, right? Even,
Chris Gazdik: even your voice tone in your shoulders and everything, as you just did that, it’s like
Alicia Robinson: you would feel depleted.
So if now you’re, now you stop having all these hormone levels, they’re gonna start thinking they’re depressed because they don’t have that constant, you know? I mean, I don’t know. This is just a thing that I’m thinking.
Chris Gazdik: And honestly, there are elements of depression there. I mean, that is the way that you experience depression.
Yeah. And then you just, it’s almost a little mini depression trigger. And you would never thought it that way, but
Alicia Robinson: think [00:31:00] that after all these increased levels of hormones, now you’re like, oh, I’m numb now. Instead of being numb, you’re just balancing out
Chris Gazdik: how many systems in our body kneel do you think cortisol.
Effects, high levels, low levels, cortisone, cortisol is, I mean, those are, that goes a lot of places.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. It’s your entire body. ’cause everything gets absorbed. Oh, well it’s, it’s huge. I mean, like I said, you look at, if you’re, if cortisol is blocking you from absorbing certain things or certain minerals or certain pieces, it’s gonna affect your entire body system, your digestion, your gut health, your every, everything.
I mean, it, it really does affect all the different pieces. Like I said, one thing with cortisol is it blocks your testosterone abs absorption. Well, guys need that to, you know, make them assertive, aggressive, or whatever you want to say. Give them more confidence. There’s a lot of stuff tied to testone. Have your blood work, work
Chris Gazdik: correctly, have it pumped correctly, have the pressure right, have the insulin be mm-hmm.
Yeah. All of that.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. And I think, I think there’s even things where, like even extended cortisol, like [00:32:00] does issues where physically affect your body, not even hormonal, which could be because of the lack of certain types of hormones or blockage, there’s a lot of negative impact on your body. Like I said, if, if you’re always stressed, how many people do you see that they’re always stressed and they always look worn down.
If they try to work out, they never recover, or their workout’s not the same way. Right. It affects your and tie systems and it’s, it’s kind of crazy what, what it does to you.
Chris Gazdik: So you’ve gotten listening. You, the listener has gotten a little bit here in the last five, 10 minutes. Honestly, a, a good bit of a.
You know, a good bit of the, the, the geeky weird science stuff behind the phrases that you’ve probably heard, like dog owners have a longer life. The, your mortality rate is, is decreased. You know, when you have healthy relationship and you know, the, these, these notions, you know, the things that you’ve heard, the doctors, you know, the conversation about doctors that we’ve had.
You probably have thought about that before. There’s a lot that goes into the biology of it. And I guess we’re not, Neil, you’re probably the [00:33:00] smartest one. You know, besides you, Alicia, I can’t contribute much higher than that because it’s so dynamic. And so thank you that that was, that was well done because it affects.
All of these things, you know, in, in way of hor immune systems and, you know, like I said, the cardio, cardiac issue cardio as well with lungs. I bet. You know, it’s just, it’s a far ranging impact simply by feeling stressed. Mm-hmm. Powerful and human relationships when going well, contribute to having less stress.
Neil Robinson: Have you heard the thing lately where they talk about length of hugs and length of kisses? No, they’ve actually talked to her about that lately, where like, if you’re gonna hug someone, it’s like they say 30 seconds and if you really want to get a good kiss, like six seconds of actual contact, there’s, there’s something about going through that part of it.
Like, because you’re letting your body actually engage in those, in those situations. Right. So instead of just, and this is something her and I kind of, I’m not a real hugger, like that’s one of those things I hug for greeting, but I don’t really hug. And so that’s something her and I have [00:34:00] like, she’s like, I wanna hug.
Like try to get away. She’s like, no, I’m not done. Pop, pop. A one point Fiverr.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah.
Neil Robinson: And so, but no, and that’s pushing
Chris Gazdik: it up to three seconds maybe in the, the goal. And so, but you,
Neil Robinson: that’s really important with the touch, right? Well,
Alicia Robinson: women, hundred percent women in particular need more hugs and more physical contact than men.
And one of the videos, I think I would’ve
Chris Gazdik: pushed back at that.
Alicia Robinson: One of the videos that I saw recently where they were just doing a study in women’s health, talked about how women need, like, I think it was five to seven good hugs a day where men can get, get around like three to five. That was just that one study.
Now I don’t, you know, I didn’t fully see where he got his information from.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, we’re not going down the rabbit hole of his stuff, but I’m just
Alicia Robinson: saying that that’s what this one guy presented with his information and he doesn’t need hugs. I mean, like this. He’s good. Leave me alone.
Chris Gazdik: That’s not enough touch.
Alicia Robinson: And now with my, my youngest son, he’s like that too. And I’m like, no, I need a hug right now. [00:35:00] Give me a hug
Chris Gazdik: and one that’s gotta last four seconds. It has to last. You know, Alicia? Yeah. You know, I think that there’s a lot there in that there’s love languages the way that we’re wired. You know? I know my, my older son, he, he has zero desire to be touched, you know?
But my younger son, I mean, he, he’s been, you know, we’ve had a delightful month. He’s in town. My little boy’s home, he’s home from Japan. He’s, he’s deployed in the military. He’s in the Navy. So, I mean, and he’s just, he’s all the time touching me. He, you know, he’s just, he wants to connect. I, I can, I can tell.
And he’s, you know, he’s. You know, he, he, he touches me on my shoulder. He touches me on my leg. He kind of, you know, DAPs me up. He always wants to handshake and, you know, he wants to hug kind of as well. So I think that there’s, I’d be curious. I mean, I, I think it’s really like people that are connecting and want to connect.
Alicia Robinson: I mean, they get
Chris Gazdik: comfort from that. Yeah.
Alicia Robinson: That plays a big part in, in it. ‘Cause I, you know, I have friends that don’t want to touch and that are female that don’t want to touch, but then when you do give them a genuine hug, you [00:36:00] can tell there’s a difference in their, their energy levels there. There’s more energy.
Absolutely. So it’s a perk. I mean, it’s a dopamine
Chris Gazdik: hit. It is, but so is quality time. Yeah,
Alicia Robinson: it is.
Chris Gazdik: So is, you know, Neil, I don’t know what your love languages are or how you engage, but if I give you a compliment and we develop a, a true trust in the moment, you know, maybe you just fell off the rock and I, you know, carried you down off the trail.
I. I could do that. Don’t think I can’t. I saw that. Look, Alicia, you saw that look, didn’t you? He’s like, I would be screwed on the Trail Creek if you and I No, it, it was
Neil Robinson: more, I’m usually the more surefooted person. So the fact that I would be the one that would follow the rock would be kinda, would it be me?
But no, I think you could definitely carry me.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And, and what an awesome experience that is, is the point, because that’s different than a hug. It’s touching, but it’s, it’s, it’s just trust. It’s it’s bonding. It’s being a part of a pack. Being a part of a group. You know, we have some knowledge about this in science and it [00:37:00] really is like the same stuff that if you have a dog and you pet a dog somewhat, you get these benefits, improved.
Life expectancy, heart health, blood pressure, decreased stress, anxiety and depression. Literally your white blood cells with immune health. Work better gut health, that’s one of my big ones. When I’m stressed, you know, I feel it in my gut. And when somebody gives me a compassionate approach or, you know, I can literally take a breath and clear all that tension out and it leaves, it leaves my gut is healthier.
Right. Sleep is another big thing. Literally. Your experience of, of pain. You know, I was thinking about this as you guys were talking. There’s, it’s well known in the psychology fields, you know, about, you know, the connections that we have and how, how people kind of connect in all these different ways that we’ve talked about and, and the positive impacts such that there’s kinetic energy.
So I, I don’t have [00:38:00] time. I think ’cause we’ve, we’ve got some things we wanna get to or that I wanna get to, but if I were, if I were to do this activity with Alicia, it would, it freaks me out every time I’ve done it in sessions, I’ll say, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll say it to hold your arm out and I’ll try to push your arm down and, and I’ll feel the strength and you’ll feel that, you know, you’re pretty strong and you’re gonna hold it.
And I’ll ask you to keep your arm out and I’ll say, say five bad things about yourself.
Alicia Robinson: Mm-hmm.
Chris Gazdik: Right?
Alicia Robinson: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: And have you ever heard of this? I’ve seen that, yeah. And what happens
Alicia Robinson: did, did immediately. Yeah. ’cause their energy drops. They, I mean, yeah. It’s amazing. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: If you say five positive things about yourself, then what happens when I try to put pressure, downward pressure on your arm and you’re trying to hold it there,
Alicia Robinson: you’re, you’re at least keeping it steady.
Or if not raising it’s solid. Solid. It is solid. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: It is markedly different. You ever hear that, Neil? No. That’s a true thing. We’ll do it after the show. I always, every time I, I do it in, in sessions. I’ve pulled that outta my, my tool bag. I’m always scared like that it’s not gonna work. Like, because this [00:39:00] seems so creepy, like how would this work?
You’re just saying something, you’re using words, but it really does correlates to like muscle strength. It’s crazy. Drips me out. So key ingredients. Yeah. Trust, honesty, compassion, empathy. You know, being able to put yourself in the other person’s shoes, you know, and then we get to these really cool things.
Neil, what do you know about mirror neurons? We’ve alluded to them on the show,
Neil Robinson: have you? Yeah, I think we have. I don’t know anything about them. Yeah. So I’m really intrigued by this section.
Chris Gazdik: I, I am too. And, and I don’t think I know enough. Have you ever heard of this before? Mm-hmm. There are Literally I, okay, so I’ve been around the block for a minute.
You know, I say on the show, you know, I’ve been doing this since 95 in one form or another. So I back to the 19 hundreds, Alicia, that’s when I started the 19 hundreds. I didn’t hear of [00:40:00] anything about any of this until much more recently in the last five, maybe 10 years, I hear of this thing called mirror neurons.
Like literally we have in our body ways that we reflect that we, we experience common experiences like, you know what, I’d really like some really, really, really smart person to tell me how on earth ants can coordinate finding the one little sugar spot in the yard, half a mile away. And they all know it.
Right.
Alicia Robinson: Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Or birds, how they can fly. And you ever, you ever seen a flock of birds all together, like 20, 30 birds, and all of a sudden, boom, they turn on a dime. Do you ever see that in the sky? Mm-hmm. Do you ever pay attention? Mm-hmm. How does that happen without them hitting each other?
Alicia Robinson: You know, I knew at one point in time because I [00:41:00] saw some, I saw a whole like, documentary thing on it, and I do not remember Yeah.
An explanation for that now, but I did see something about it. Yeah. Or,
Neil Robinson: or the big school of fish that, that make the bigger thing like Right. It’s so cool. Right. That’s a
Chris Gazdik: thousand little fish and they, they don’t touch each other, but yet they’ll dart off into the left or to the right. They all somehow know what’s going on.
Don’t you know when you walk into the room, when you see Neil, you know, or when Neil, you come home from where he comes home, I guess you come home from the the store. Nobody, you guys work from home. I was doing that. I was like, wait a minute, this isn’t working out. You’re screwing up Chris. We see
Alicia Robinson: each other all the time.
Oh my God. When, when I get home from
Neil Robinson: the podcast.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. When you come out of the home, finally Neil, that what if you didn’t catch all that listening? They both kind of work outta the house. So that my little example was blowing up and we all knew it in real time. So if he comes home from the podcast and he’s got that look on his face, can you tell where he’s at?
Alicia Robinson: Yes. I know all the time where [00:42:00] he is, you know?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And you see, you see her vibe when she comes into the room, you know, and you kind of, we get this idea of being in the other person’s head, but nobody is. You can’t be, but you get these cues. Yeah. All of this has to do with. Mirroring neurons, which Chachi PT had this.
So this is really from Chachi pt. Have y’all started using that? I know you have.
Alicia Robinson: I refuse to. You refuse to. Yes, I do. Alicia. I have my own brain. I don’t need somebody to come up with something for me.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, baby girl. It is a big, have you ever said, Hey Siri, what did the Pittsburgh Pirates do last night?
Alicia Robinson: No, I told Siri to.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, we had
Alicia Robinson: a conversation about, nevermind. I’m not gonna say that on your podcast.
Chris Gazdik: You can say anything you wanna, she and Siri had a battle. We actually talked about this. Alright, this is tanking as well. Just play along with this. Sorry. Chat. GBT is amazing. It’s great. You will use chat t I’m telling you.
It’s [00:43:00] amazing. See, these are the large language models and I actually am just pointing this out because this is not my data, not my information. I actually just popped a quick quote and this is what it came up. ’cause such a fascinating thing. But I, I have trusted chatt. BT it is great information. It’s like a Google search on steroids, right?
So this is their description. Mirror neurons are specialized brain cells that fire both when we perform an action and we observe someone else performing the same action. Now, I hadn’t heard mirroring neurons being described that way before. I. So that was really kind of fascinating that I have brain cells that when I cross my leg like this, I experience what I experienced and then I observed you Neil doing the same thing and like, wow, those same specialized brain functions are firing so that we are connecting in our common understanding.
Neil Robinson: Isn’t that [00:44:00] wild? It is Cool. That’s very cool. Now going back to the D, the time you said, ’cause it, when you read the notes, it said they were first discovered in the early nineties. Yeah, I see that, you know, in the 19 hundreds as you stated a second ago, right? 19 hundreds. But I think that’s what’s kind of fascinating, like when you talk about early discoveries stuff, we’re learning so much about ourselves.
Like you, we’ve talked about the, his history of stuff where like some of the stuff we’re talking about menopause and stuff, it’s like they didn’t start really talking about that till like the sixties and like sixties and seventies. Like a lot of stuff that’s brand new so early, very new in the history of man, like we’re now just so it’s really cool how 50 years ago it’s how amazing we are as, as humans and as like the bodies we have and it’s so cool what we can do and what we’re we’re capable of.
Chris Gazdik: It really is, and I see that that was research with monkeys in the nineties and then evidence shows that humans have them too. I think that we may have found this out in the nineties, but I’m telling you I have heard nothing of this topic, you know, through the nineties, the two thousands, the tens only.
I’ll give it maybe [00:45:00] 15 years.
Neil Robinson: I, I think if you look at it from a sales and marketing perspective, that’s, I think where they hinted some of the mirror neurons, because they talk about you do certain things to get people to, like you, there’s certain behaviors you do the way that you close your arms versus have them wide open the way you interact, if you look at it from a sales, sales and marketing logic,
Chris Gazdik: absolutely.
They
Neil Robinson: probably actually cover more of the mirroring neurons than probably the psychological side because of, it’s all about likability. It’s all about making the sales right. I can see that you think about those. There’s some book, I can’t think of what it’s called, like psychoanalytic or something.
I don’t know. I it’s something most marketing people are sales, but will read and there’s something about the human nature and the connections and doing certain behaviors and like I said, crossing the feet. Like when you, if you mirror someone, it makes them more comfortable with you because, and you know what a big
Chris Gazdik: one is yawning, right?
Neil Robinson: Yes. Yes. Yawning iss a big one.
Chris Gazdik: As, as a matter of fact, I think if I, I was just listening to you and I remembered that. I feel like that’s where this research [00:46:00] interest, particularly in humans started.
Neil Robinson: Why, why one person yawns and then everyone else does that. I think we were at absolutely dinner one time with my stepmom and I started like, act yawn, like yawning acting.
And she started to yawn and like it was like I could do it repeatedly over and over again. It was like really funny, but it was just, yeah, yawning. Iss a great example of that. ’cause everyone relates to it.
Chris Gazdik: You know what, there’s so many examples. You know, I, this was terrible. I had a buddy of mine that was taking his pregnant wife, Alicia who, who had just gave birth to a newborn and if you mimic crying in a car, they were totally messing with her because she would lactate.
She would, she was like, she was just wet everywhere. She was like horrible. But the guys were just sitting there laughing. Their tail ends off. You know, thank goodness
Alicia Robinson: that didn’t happen to me. Never. It never
Neil Robinson: happened. Oh, that would, that would’ve way too much ammunition for me if I had known that one.
’cause I’m mean like that. But that’s okay.
Chris Gazdik: It, I know. It would’ve never happened anyway. Anyway. It, well, it, it could have, and I would wonder honestly though, is mirroring neurons a a part of that [00:47:00] process? Really? There’s lots of different examples we might come up with. So they’re thought, so mirror neurons are thought to be the biological foundation for, that’s the way that was written.
So, do we know or is it just thought to be, but anyway, the fi, the biological foundation for empathy, you know, when you empathize with each other, when you’re socially connected, allowing intuition to occur, sports coordination of play by play probably is a big thing there. Learning through imitation. So we talked about kids, oh my gosh, they’re mirroring neurons.
Must be. On fire when they’re that age. Right?
Alicia Robinson: Yeah, absolutely. Especially
Neil Robinson: when the, when the adult says something bad, they’re gonna mirror it immediately. A hundred percent.
Alicia Robinson: Well, if you fight or flight, man, if a kid reaches over and smacks another kid, they’re all gonna start hitting each other. Just happens, right?
It does. Food fight. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Food fight,
Alicia Robinson: yeah. Wow.
Chris Gazdik: Emotional contagion. Emotions can spread between people like ripples. You know, [00:48:00] this is partly thanks to the mirroring neurons. So again, chat was talking about this, and there’s all these simple examples that we have in our day-to-day, day-to-day life. So how mirror neurons help us.
You help us heal in relationships, validation, and emotional safety. When someone is attuned to us mirroring our emotions, body language, or tone, it sends a powerful signal of safety and understanding. This is a fancy word, co-regulation. That means you’re regulating your emotion. Neil and I am regulating kind of with you when we have a heavy topic, say in a therapy session modeling new patterns, being in healthy, supportive relationships.
Think about training your kids. Do you do that by teaching them and yelling at them and spanking at them? Or do you really like, demonstrate ’cause they’re watching you, mom, talk to dad when you are in an argument. Mm-hmm. How does this go, right? Mm-hmm. So, look, I [00:49:00] oftentimes for young therapists, if you’re a young therapist listening to this and picking up on this, I don’t think we realize in our field even particularly when we’re younger, the sheer power of sitting down.
With another person whom you are giving your eye contact, your open body posture, follow up questions based on what that person said. Simple reflection. That’s a very simple therapy tactic. That is a conversation unlike anything. This person who’s in initial appointment with a therapist has ever experienced before.
Isn’t that wild? Mm-hmm. And the power of that. You know, because therapists are weird. Like, you know you’re gonna gimme $80 and I just listened to you. You literally wrote me a check and you handed it across the room that first time that happens. That’s weird. Of course, it’s probably more than $80 nowadays.
That was a long time ago, and [00:50:00] $280 and
Neil Robinson: the 19 hundreds,
Chris Gazdik: right? No, but that feels weird when you’re a young therapist doing that. But understand that is worth $1,280 for somebody who’s experienced the opposite.
Alicia Robinson: Well, you should be like that in your relationships with your partner, with your husband, with your wife, with your children.
You should be always open and responsive in that way. Making eye contact, listening to them. If they tell you something, rewording it so they know that you’re hearing them. These all build trust in your, in your relationships, and I did that a lot with my children. We sat down and had conversations where they would talk to me and they knew I was listening because of all the things that you just talked about.
We’ve had conversations like that too. So you wanna build relationships. That’s what you should be doing when you’re talking to people.
Chris Gazdik: It it, it, it kind of comes down to time. It literally shapes your brain’s wiring. It [00:51:00] literally shapes the neurological functioning of your brain. It, it formulates your body’s moment to moment chemical reaction.
And if that’s lovely oxytocin that makes you feel in love and floaty, or if that’s cortisone adrenaline that makes you run and punch harder and like see clear to save your life. That is a drain, but it’s a powerful lift off. It’s, it’s wild. Simply by a hug. So Neil, yeah. Pump up those hugs by more than four degrees because two minutes doesn’t get it done.
Neil Robinson: So. So here’s an interesting thought process. Thought I was thinking of teletherapy, right? I know with COD and all that you’ve been doing more. Oh boy. When it comes to mirror mirroring neurons, which has an interesting dynamic. How much does the disconnection of not being [00:52:00] in that room with that person, how much does that, because I mean, this is gonna sound weird, but like her and I have, we’ve been married long enough, we have some pretty good connections sometimes.
And yeah, we were playing a game, I don’t remember what it was, some game, and she looked at the card, I was looking at it and I always get like, okay, here’s what it is. I, I kind of get an idea, whatever it is. And so she, at some point during the game, she started, she’d look at it, but then she’d think of something different and my brain just shut down and I couldn’t solve the riddle or solve the problems anymore.
So the question is, wow. Yeah, it’s a really weird thing. But the question is, once again, mirroring neurons, how much of it that is based on actual physical distance and how much of it is just seeing the other person. So when you do a therapy session through like a Zoom or whatever you wanna say, are you really getting the entire benefit of a therapy session because you don’t have that physical,
Chris Gazdik: this totally needs study.
And what I think would find out. Is just probably, I mean, I’ve never thought about this before. It’s off the cuff, but [00:53:00] probably why I’ve always landed on, you know, there being best practice face-to-face in real time in the room. And then there’s a, there’s a step down, but still highly quality is the video conferencing.
I used to do it with Skype back in the days with Skype. You see his face on the YouTube live. He doesn’t like Skype. He just scoured at me. ’cause it’s so old. Well, it,
Neil Robinson: it is finally getting decommissioned, right? It is finally getting decommissioned. I think, my understanding is they’re actually Michael finally de I didn’t know that.
That’s a sad
Chris Gazdik: day. I love Skype, but nevertheless, I wouldn’t do video or telephone sessions. I would stop at video. COVID actually taught me that it’s another little step down from video, but it’s still very, very effective to have a a, a, a telephonic therapy intervention. However, I. Again, best practice, and I’m talking about this with my clinicians, you know, around the country, honestly, at a presentation.
And so it’s really cool to to get that and, and people are kind of, I mean, they’re bought [00:54:00] into doing this teleconferencing stuff. They enjoy it. It’s convenient, it’s very good. It has its place. But by golly, I make the deadpan statement that that’s not best practice
Neil Robinson: it. It makes me wonder, once again, I think people like it because of that.
It’s
Chris Gazdik: convenient
Neil Robinson: technology disconnect too. Yeah. You don’t feel that pressure when you’re talking to someone face to face and you’re saying stuff that makes you vulnerable. It’s a lot different when you’re on a Zoom call, you don’t have that presence of how are they gonna, how do I feel talking to them?
There’s, there’s a safety net that I don’t know if that’s a benefit because you’re saying stuff you normally wouldn’t say. But then also the other part is like, you’re not really getting the whole effect of like, if I say this and the therapist knows it’s bad, I’m not really gonna sense what happens or what their reaction is.
So I think there’s something in there that you might get more people opening up because of that disconnect. Right. But I also think sometimes you’re missing out on some of those connections. So when, when I say, you know, I have really having a really, really bad day, and the therapist sympathizes it as [00:55:00] empathy with me, and I feel that sympathy, I’m not getting that, getting that healing benefit coming from someone actually cares about me and that compassion versus just looking at it on a screen, there’s a huge disconnect.
Chris Gazdik: I think what we would find though, Neil, is, is that’s why I went into that and then didn’t finish the thought. Face-to-face, little step down, video conferencing. And then another little step down to telephone, because I think what studies would find is that there’s more of these neurons that are firing in face-to-face because you have the verbal nonverbal, much more activated.
Because it is just so much in a physical touch, actual physical touch, which you can’t do on televideo conference, but you can see and you can mirror, and I, if I smile on video conferencing, chances are the other person’s going to smile also. Mm-hmm. And even on the phone, I mean, we are so perceptive human beings.
Are you notice when I say, Hey, what’s up Neil? Versus, Hey, what’s up Neil?
Alicia Robinson: [00:56:00] You can hear it. Your tone of voice, all your exclamation there’s a definite ’cause you have vibrations and energy in the way you talk and people are gonna pick up on that. It’s just, it is different. And you do have to focus in with your other senses in that sense because,
Chris Gazdik: but it’s so much more when you’re live.
Alicia Robinson: Absolutely.
Chris Gazdik: When you’re live in the room,
Alicia Robinson: absolutely.
Chris Gazdik: Your eyes are designed to work that way. High def isn’t high def. Yeah. The best high def there is. Will we get to a place Neil, with computers and technology advancing? Gosh, I don’t know. I don’t know if you can.
Neil Robinson: Yeah, we, we watch, there’s a show on Amazon called Uploaded Upload.
And they have this thing where they take, when people are about to die, they can upload their consciousness to Oh yeah.
Chris Gazdik: The movie what’s that called? Oh, it’s a terribly violent movie to I’ll, I’ll, I’ll think of it,
Neil Robinson: but this is a TV show and so this, this, the whole thing is this guy is about to die.
Supposedly they upload his consciousness. We’ll come to find out there’s a conspiracy, but there’s this whole business [00:57:00] of a virtual world that they, people live in. It’s just their conscience. Yep. And as part of this, they have these suits crazy that you can wear and go visit people, and then you can actually get the sensation of hugging your, your dead spouse because their consciousness is, but are we really ever gonna get there?
I don’t know. That’s just really creepy. But I
Chris Gazdik: mean, it’s terribly
Neil Robinson: creepy. It it, it is. But that’s, you know, that’s a, but that’s what we’re trying
Chris Gazdik: to do. And we know that that is sort of replicatable. And even then I would say our systems are so I’m gonna say sensitive, but what I mean by that is so responsive is a better word to the environment.
Like putting stuff out or bringing stuff in. And we’re not even talking about, you know, things like extrasensory perception and telepathy and things that you may or may not buy and believe, but like, there’s certainly some energy and you can taste viscerally, sense somebody’s energy when they’re coming in to your space.
And all of this is, is all a part of that. We need to [00:58:00] wind in a little bit. How do we cultivate these bonds if we like them and want them? You know, I would, I would say be aware of like our friendship shows that we’ve done shows on. ’cause I’ve talked about like, how do you pur be purposeful about make friends?
What do you do, you know, in that area of life? ’cause people are, I mean, they struggled to know, but pri prioritizing reciprocation. I can’t say how important that is. When you’re actively building a relationship, you know, you, you can’t be. You know, the one, sometimes I, I’ve, I have my clients all the time, like with Codependence, that, you know, they’re in the giving role.
They’re not in a receiving role or they’re, you’re, you’re really kind of in an addiction setting and the person’s ego-centric and just absolutely consumed by themselves, and they just strip all of the energy from the entire house. So they’re in receiving or, or people now, the, the kids call it, what do they call it?
Vampire, right? You have that vampire energy where you’re just sucking the life out of people around you. Yeah. You know, [00:59:00] so being aware of when that’s happening, you know, reciprocal support and listening and connecting are what we’re after. Affectionate behavior, like we were talking about that like be purposeful, you know, some people in their lives, you know, they’re, they’re used to like nothing but critical based interaction with primary people in their life, such as a parent.
And they’re not really open to the affectionate like. Like I said, I actually had a therapist I like to pick on him, you know, early in my career, early, early, way long ago. Refused to shake somebody’s hand or touch of any kind, was like, okay, that’s weird, dude. Right? But there’s, there’s things, and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with him, although he was, it was a little different.
Did I say that out loud? I did, didn’t I? Oh, well,
Alicia Robinson: I didn’t hear anything. It’s out there. We can play it back.
Chris Gazdik: And, and then self-awareness and empathy and asking open-ended questions, making connections, validating. Like you said, Alicia, I think, you know, these are, [01:00:00] these are some real life things. And maybe now listening to this episode, you can kind of get an understanding of like, wow, this really makes an impact on somebody when you do it.
Neil Robinson: I think what’s great about this show, ’cause I was thinking about this early on, we’ve done so many shows about critical people codependency. Like all of the negative relationships we have and how much they can hurt you. You know how like what you Yeah, I didn’t go there. It’s so great. It’s so refreshing to see the other way because once again, just as powerful relationships are tearing someone down, right?
They’re just as powerful to build someone back up. And I think that’s, I think that’s what I wanna take away from this show is like relationships are great, especially if they’re healthy relationships. And I think it’s so important, and that’s why I was saying about this early on, I was like, we had all these shows about like growing up with a critical parent or cynical nature or like, you know, could like how these things soon like, so it’s great to finally hit the other side and be like, yeah, for all the bad there, there are good relationships that.
As you stated in the title, relationships Can Heal.
Chris Gazdik: Love that. And
Neil Robinson: I, and I think it’s great that we’re [01:01:00] talking about this
Chris Gazdik: so you can’t judge yourself on the shrink wrap up, but Alicia, we all do a shrink wrap up now. It’s a new part of our show where, you know, each person on the panel typically like says their closing summaries and whatnot, and then we have Neil judge them.
But he is going to judge that you win. So I am not participating in this today. We’ll just do our wrap ups. Okay.
Alicia Robinson: You don’t have to be scared to judge me. You know that I judge you
Neil Robinson: all the time,
Chris Gazdik: baby. I know you do. I’m just having fun. That was awesome though that you do that, but that can’t be wet. Better said, Neil, I honestly, that’s your wrap up because that is absolutely on point and I just wanna honestly maybe say the same thing because you know, you’re right.
I’ve been aware of that, you know, all throughout this time, but I didn’t go there because it is the reality that I. All of this powerful healing is so true, but there’s a reason why I’ve said one of the most damning things you can have in your life is a super highly critical person. And what does that do [01:02:00] on the opposite side of this whole conversation today.
So it’s true. We just focused on the coolness of what people can do to people. But the opposite’s true, unfortunately too. What says you, ma’am, to summarize us, do you have summary thoughts or conclusions? Questions?
Alicia Robinson: I just think that when you find a person that you feel comfortable and loved and safe with, then that’s the relationship that you need to hold onto.
And it’s okay to let go of the other relationships where you do not feel safe and you don’t feel validated and you don’t feel important. It’s okay to let go of those. You don’t have to hold onto those. Hold onto the ones that build you up and make you feel good and seek that positive energy and your relationships are going to be better.
Chris Gazdik: Wow. This is the Robinson’s throw down. Nicely said, both of you. I’m just gonna end the show on that [01:03:00] because Alicia, that is beautifully put. Appreciate you being with us.
Alicia Robinson: Thank you for having me. Chris Gazdik: Saving the day. So guys, we will see you next week.