Has our cultural normalization of marijuana moved faster than our actual understanding of its health risks? In this provocative episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, the panel tackles the shifting landscape of cannabis use—starting with surprising CDC data on Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome, a condition linked to frequent use that causes severe vomiting and has sent nearly 200,000 people to the emergency room. From busting common myths about driving, addiction, and anxiety to debating whether “legal” actually means “safe,” the hosts bypass the tired “good vs. bad” debate to offer a compassionate, clinical lens on your relationship with weed. Whether you are a casual user, using it medically, or relying on it to manage daily stress, tune in for a nuanced, eye-opening conversation designed to help you reflect on whether cannabis is truly serving your health or subtly driving your life.
Tune in to see Weed Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Is marijuana actually safer than alcohol—or have we simply started treating it that way?
- Can something have legitimate medical benefits and still cause serious harm?
- Has legalization changed our perception of marijuana faster than science has changed our understanding of it?
Links referenced during the show:
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/mentalhealthtips
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/addiction
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/75/wr/mm7530a2.htm
Chapter 1.5 | We will cope with feelings productively or destructively.
Perfect for discussing cannabis as a coping mechanism without automatically labeling all cannabis use pathological.
Chapter 1.10 | Why resolve feelings?
If cannabis consistently removes uncomfortable emotion, does that sometimes prevent the emotional processing that needs to occur?
Chapter 1.14 | How do we handle stress?
A natural discussion of marijuana as stress management versus marijuana becoming someone’s only stress-management strategy.
Chapter 1.23 | The body goes as the brain thinks.
CHS gives you a fascinating mind/body discussion—but also reminds us that cannabis produces very real physiological effects.
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #370 Transcription
Chris (00:01)
Hello, this is Through a Therapist Eyes and you are finding us on September the third, twenty twenty six on a Thursday. I must say it is wicked hot outside. We have myself, the host, Chris Gazdick, hanging out with you. John Pope. How are you, sir, down there in Florida?
John (00:18)
we’re cooler than you are.
Chris (00:21)
Are you? You are not. I got in my car and I kid you not, the car temperature says one hundred and twenty two degrees. Now it’s sitting in the sun, but dude, that’s just ridiculous.
John (00:32)
No, it’s much,
much cooler overall. We’ve had rain every day for the last two weeks.
Chris (00:40)
Colder in Florida. Neil, that’s just not right. Neil is the producer behind the curtains and we’re gonna have Victoria hanging out with us here in a little bit when she gets herself home and you know, we’re having technology challenges with old Victoria. She doesn’t have her laptop charger and she left that at work, so we’ll see how long she can hang out with us, John.
John (00:57)
Hope she can stay with us as long as possible. ‘Cause she always
has something good to say.
Chris (01:01)
Episode
Episode three hundred and seventy. Let’s talk about weed, John, shall we?
John (01:10)
Yeah, peace out.
Chris (01:12)
Yeah, peace out. He’s out. Let’s talk about weed cannabis myths busted and risks nobody talks about. This is a playoff of what is developed to be a current event month. We are going to be talking about Lindsay Clancy case next week when Casey joins us back. She isn’t every other week a gal now as she is parenting her child.
This is through a therapist where we get insights directly from a panel of therapists from your home or your car, not the delivery of serv therapy services in any way. we believe that mental health is important for all of us and getting ever more important as we go along, particularly here with the current event month that we’re doing. The three content questions that we want to get you to think about this evening, this morning, this afternoon, whatever it may be for you, is marijuana actually safer than alcohol?
Hmm Or have we simply started treating it that way? Two, can something have legitimate medical benefits and still cause serious harm? I reference oxycottin. That would be probably an easy yes.
John (02:19)
Hillbelly heroin. And I’m hairbelly, so I can say that. So
Chris (02:23)
Okay. And then three, has legalization changed our perception of marijuana faster than science has changed our understanding of it?
Three good questions on Through a Therapist Eyes. Subscribe and click. Look, we do our part to create some free content for you to enjoy, to learn from, to blow up stereotypes and myths and disseminate mental health and substance abuse information. Your job is to click, scan, scrap, subscribe. We’re really looking to get new YouTube subscribers. We need to bump those up, guys. Please help us. Help us provide this for you. Tell a friend. Tell a family member. Tell your neighbor. If you’re subscribed, please.
Get your husband or wife subscribed, seriously and truly. And John, how many stars?
John (03:07)
Give us five and if you could give us ten. But I know you can only give us five, but it goes right it it it the algorithm loves it. Okay, so we’ll we’ll go high.
Chris (03:19)
You know, they they
can’t give us ten if they get their spouse involved. They give us five from them and then five from them and they give us ten. Yeah,
John (03:22)
Right. That’s right. Exactly. Exactly.
Chris (03:25)
yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Contact it through a therapist eyes dot com. This is where you can contact us. Get up with us. We do a Facebook live at six fifteen to six thirty most Thursdays. And we are licensed clinical therapists doing real clinical work every day. And this is where we talk openly and honestly about what actually helps. A lot of people talking about our topics these days.
In mental health and John, we do this for a living, wouldn’t you say?
John (03:53)
Yes we do. Yes we do. And we’re confronted with these issues in terms of substance use quite often. And many of our clients are,
Chris (04:02)
Right.
John (04:03)
yeah.
Chris (04:04)
Yeah, in truly and truly. this is the human emotional experience which we endeavor to figure out.
This was a surprise to me and the first segment that we really have with our show is wait, weed can make you vomit.
John (04:24)
I think it’s a great
subject tit heading.
Chris (04:28)
Vomiting or weed?
John (04:30)
Or both. So
Chris (04:32)
No, first of all we gotta say pot or weed, not pot, John. I wanna I wanna preface this so that we can use the same word, not make you sound like an old fart. It’s weed now. It’s not
John (04:40)
Yeah, part of it.
Chris (04:41)
pot.
John (04:42)
Yeah, it’s weed. I
Chris (04:45)
You knew that though, right?
John (04:46)
did, I did. I
Chris (04:48)
Yeah.
John (04:48)
have a client who likes the weed.
Chris (04:52)
I have several clients that likes the weed. You know, listen, I I was really shocked by this topic. We’re gonna be talking about a lot of different things about weed today, but the the premise kinda is like, gosh, like seriously, you get nauseous from weed. Like what is going on? And you surprised me, John, that you this is not new to you. This is new to me. I am not aware of this. The genesis of this show I’m sorry.
John (05:15)
Not new to me. Yeah. This is about the last few years. I’m
sorry, I didn’t mean to talk over you. Last few years this has been a topic. I’ve I I get updates.
Chris (05:30)
Yeah, I I guess you’re you’re a little bit more red than me. You you’re you’re kinda academic. You like to read, I like to listen. Believe it or not, I talk a lot, but I like to listen. No, I I’ve
John (05:39)
Maybe.
Chris (05:39)
I’ve always I I’ve always had it in my mind that is a big warning for college students. Look, when you get liquored up, when you get drunk, what your body does is it pukes the poison out. That’s why we puke when we’re drunk, because it’s sh it’s killing you. Right? Like your brain is literally shutting down. This is why people, you know, die.
From w what is called alcohol poisoning or alcohol overdosing. It’s just basically when you begin to drink a little bit of alcohol, your brain shuts down. And the more alcohol you drink, more of your brain shuts down. And if you drink enough brain to have the last part of your brain, the brain stem that is your life support system, if it shuts down, you shut down. And so when you pass out, you will oftentimes puke. and when you puke, it gets the poison out of your system.
And it stops the amount of alcohol from shutting down more than you you want it to. That’s what I’ve always understood. And that’s still true. It’s also still true that cannabis weed, pot, Mary Jane, whatever you call it, definitely acts as a nausea suppressant. And that’s a fancy way of saying it prevents you from throwing up. This is why cancer patients will use weed sometimes and
it’s helpful because it will help them to keep food down and this type of a thing. So the genesis of this show was a client of mine talking about weed in session not too long ago, and she was telling me about exactly what a lot of our show is about, cannabis hyperemesis. Never heard of cannabis hyperemesis. John’s heard of it before and has read about it. This is evidently a condition that is horrific.
What do you know, John? Tell us about it.
John (07:26)
Well, I I don’t know all that much about it, but it’s something that actually has some paradoxical symptoms, basically. sometimes people use marijuana to or weed to assuage their or dampen down their anxiety or their their nausea, like you said with cancer patients or people with severe illnesses. But overuse of it actually
person can become it just turns it on its head. And so if you use it, you have recurrent severe nausea. You have and it and it is an appetite and it makes it very difficult for you. your anxiety goes up. You have have to go to the emergency room because you think you’re gonna die or or you are starting to have some sort of
effect of your nervous system. And so in other words, heart rate, that sort of thing. And that’s what I know about it.
Chris (08:34)
This all sounds kind of crazy to me, honestly, because you know, we’ll talk about myths and bust them and stuff here in a little bit, but one of the things that I’ve always understood that my people in therapy get confused about is that they don’t see it as addictive. And it it’s because primarily people do not have as much problem coming off of it. And that primarily is because
Weed is a fat soluble substance. that means it breaks down in fatty tissue and it doesn’t break down in water, like water soluble substances. Now that’s
John (09:12)
And it takes a while for it
to process through you because it’s deposited in your fat cells. So this thing could last for a while.
Chris (09:20)
Right. And so back up the train just a little bit and understand why it’s so difficult to come off of alcohol or pills or other drugs, cocaine and heroin. Understand come off of means not detoxing necessarily, but just, you know, you stop using for a night and you come off of it. Well, it’s very dangerous with things like alcohol or cocaine because you you raise tolerance in in drinking histories and your your levels go way high.
And then they drop. And when they drop suddenly, like a water soluble substance does, that’s where we have detox symptoms, delirium tremens, seizures, the danger happens with alcohol withdrawal and other drugs. And that’s where people think, it’s addictive, it’s a problem. I’m I’m I’m physiologically withdrawing. Well, you don’t with weed, because what we do with alcohol and other substances is we give your body medication in detox centers.
And it tricks the body to think that we have, you know, alcohol in your system, but you don’t. And and and you give those medications slow downward trends in a detox center so your body can kind of adjust over a three, four, or five day period, sometimes more, but rare. And and then you’re clear because your body’s like adjusting slowly. But when it boom hits now and it goes out of your system, it it freaks out. The body freaks out, right? So
What happens with weed is it’s a fat soluble substance and just like John said, takes forever to get it out of your system because it lives in fat cells. I can tell you how hard it is to get rid of fat cells. I’m working hard as we speak.
John (10:57)
And it accumulates and it accumulates
you in and they shrink, but it’s still in there. That’s i if you lose weight, it’s still in there. It’s gonna you you don’t the fat cells really don’t die.
Chris (11:12)
No, they don’t. And even in a in a very slim body, understand the two most fatty organs in the body. Do you know what they are? ‘Cause we always scare teens with this kind of thing. I don’t know if you’ve used that track. I don’t purposely try to scare your kids when they come to therapy with me, but I use this fact to kind of make a point. What are the two most fatty organs in the body? Do you know, John?
John (11:34)
No brain and
Chris (11:34)
The brain
and ta ta ta
John (11:38)
liver I guess, but you’re you’re talking about somehow we didn’t know that. And it affects your Yeah, and so there there’s an increase of estrogen.
Chris (11:40)
No, it’s the testicles and ovaries. Yes, it is. It’s the testicles. So so so cannabis just sucks into those.
John (11:50)
In in in males, isn’t there an increase of estrogen? Yeah.
Chris (11:55)
yeah.
Yeah, that’s right. People like literally like you know, we used to call potheads, now they’re weed heads, I guess. I mean people that are chronic users of intense and heavy doses have a lot of impact. I mean, they will grow breasts and stuff. It’s wild.
John (12:07)
Taking breast ghanomastia.
Yeah, that’s
Chris (12:11)
And what is that big word?
John (12:13)
that means big breast.
Chris (12:15)
Mm-hmm.
John (12:16)
In ma in males especially. No.
Chris (12:19)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you know, so so there’s there’s there’s so’s realities and so that makes it, you know, totally not in danger for a detox. You won’t die from weed because of withdrawal. You you just don’t. But this creates a misconception. And so that’s what I’ve always understood that it stays in your system. Withdrawing is not a big deal, it actually is a nausea suppressant. And then we have this thing that you’re telling us about cannabis hyperemesis.
You’re talking about a lot of heavy use. What do you think causes it? I I’m curious.
John (12:52)
Yeah, a hyperamistice is
throwing up, right?
Chris (12:57)
Huh? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Art.
John (12:58)
Growing up all the time. And you have the dry heaves.
You can’t yeah.
Chris (13:04)
Right. So I’m curious well, let me describe it first, a little and and and go on with what you had said. I mean the C D C published new data on cannabide hyperemesis syndrome, CHS, on August the sixth, twenty twenty six, and CHS cannabis hyperemesis syndrome that I have never heard anything about until about two weeks ago. is associated with frequent cannabis use and can cause reoccurring
Severe nausea, repeated vomiting, abdominal pain, that I’m talking about hard abdominal pain. And then it takes people to the emergency room. Like they’re they’re freaking the hell out. And this is a bizarre feature that hot showers or baths frequently relieve symptoms temporary. So cannabis cessation is considered the key long term treatment, of course, because I mean people are, you know, terri like
The the E the emergency department nurse who was my client that taught me about this is telling me how people are showing up in the emergency department. You know, we were just talking about chronic pain with my god, what was his name? Neil, help me out, John. Hunter, Hunter Davidson.
John (14:21)
Hunter,
yeah, he’s up in New York.
Chris (14:24)
Mm-hmm. we were talking about chronic pain with him. These people are having chronic, uncontrollable nausea. Dry heaving for days or at least a day. Like cramping, like abdominal muscles cramping to the umth degree. You can’t stand this pain. I can’t believe it. It’s other than anything I’ve ever heard about with weed.
Right? So that’s that’s what we’re talking about and my curiosity, John, is what’s creating this? Because we’ve had Cheech and Chong, we’ve had Willie Nelson, we’ve had Snoop Dogg, these guys are you know?
John (15:03)
You want my opinion? Un uninformed
opinion? I think it’s because it’s so much more powerful than up in smoke. Yeah.
Chris (15:13)
Right. Right. Also the delivery system with these pods and these flavors and all the things that the kids are sold on.
John (15:27)
Yeah, because it really does get it actually the the transference from the lungs into the into the blood stream is is is quicker and more efficient. And yeah, I think and then you accumulate a lot more of the the c cannabinoids or whatever they’re called into the into the body and
you can start to break that down. You you keep re up in filling up the tank and if you continue with use of this, heavy use, and you’re gonna keep getting the same symptoms. And I don’t know if you can ever not be free of it and use cannabis. I mean I think you have to stop or cease, but I’m not sure about that. But
Chris (16:21)
I don’t know what the treatment is. I think honestly they I mean, I don’t know, they probably give you fennegin fennegin? Fennergan. you know. Yeah, fen fen fenergin.
John (16:28)
Well yeah, I for morning sickness and pregnant. My my wife
Yeah. Interesting. I wonder again, you you like you like hormones. So maybe the the
Chris (16:41)
baby.
John (16:42)
the estrogen increase may actually cause a a type of mimicking of of morning sickness. I don’t know.
Chris (16:53)
Yeah, you know, I I I yeah, it’s a really interesting theory, John. I I I am curious if the research professionals have been able to get to a point where they’ve researched enough to understand what’s creating this s d dilemma. And I’m willing to bet they don’t.
John (17:11)
But they don’t.
Chris (17:11)
And your bringing up hormone systems are absolutely poignant. I mean, it’s on point.
The two things, yes, that I most hypothesize about. And I guess this little segment I’m gonna say don’t listen to us because yeah, John and I are uninformed. We haven’t done research, but I’m willing to bet people haven’t done research about this. It’s only been around for a few years, and I’m shocked it’s been talked about that long. The level of percentage of weed nowadays is insane. It’s insane.
John, you were back in the day. Peace, love, and happiness.
John (17:57)
A lot of that
being stoned was actually being with people of a like mind and so you had a a a mild
Chris (18:06)
Right.
John (18:07)
buzz on and you were you were happy.
Chris (18:09)
Lovely.
John (18:10)
You’d play the bongo drums and you know. Yeah. And you’d sing goombaya, you’d have a black light and
Chris (18:13)
Bongos What was the percentage of weed back when you were
playing your banjo and bongos and stuff? What was the percentage of weed? You have any idea?
John (18:23)
I have no idea it was very mild though. I know
Chris (18:26)
It was
like skunkweed, man. It was like seven, eight, ten, fifteen percent. Maybe the good stuff was twenty, you know.
John (18:32)
Get the flowers and the butt. It’s I I don’t know that much about it. So I’m gonna
Chris (18:36)
Yes you do. Don’t lie to us. Let me tell you something. I’m gonna be honest and genuine on the show. I mean, you know, I’m not an alcoholic or have addiction issues, thankfully. my son and I went to Phoenix, Arizona, and he wanted to get a little Jay. He’s like, Come on, dad, come on. I ain’t never smoked with my dad, that’d be fun. He’s an adult now. And I’m like, I mean, I don’t know, whatever. I’m like, all right, whatever, that’s fine. And we went to a dispensary, we got one little thingy.
And I told a little lady there, I’m like, look, look, I need I will the weak stuff, okay? I want the weak stuff. I we don’t give me just I was very distinct because I know what I’m talking about with this stuff. And she’s like, that’s cool. That’s what my dad says. I’m like, okay, well, I’m the dad guy, okay? John, I hope the ethics board doesn’t get me here. But it wasn’t illegal. I didn’t do anything illegal. I mean to tell you, I hit that thing and it was like, you know
instant effects basically when you when you do that.
John (19:39)
You didn’t do a bong, did you?
Chris (19:41)
No, it didn’t do bong. It was just a simple little pu seriously, it was one puff. But
John (19:45)
Well, huh? yeah.
Chris (19:47)
unlike Clinton, I did inhale, I will say, unlike President Bill Clinton, I inhaled. He said he didn’t inhale. I inhaled. I couldn’t
John (19:54)
And you held breath.
Chris (19:55)
bel I was like I mean, maybe I got a virgin body to it, I you know, albeit, but dude it was like freaking crazy. I said, Okay, well I looked at him and I said, Well, it was about eight o’clock in the evening. I said, My entire goal for the rest of the evening
The only thing I’m gonna try to accomplish is go from here to the bed. Inside hallway crash. That’s it. Cause it was strong. Okay, look, I did my time with weed in college for about half a semester.
John (20:29)
mean they had the strongest they had back
Chris (20:30)
No.
John (20:30)
in then was Maui Wowie.
Chris (20:33)
Yeah. Yeah, in the nineties, you know, and now dude, I mean the good stuff when I was coming up in college, unlike you, John, was strong stuff at like twenty-five, thirty percent. Maui wowie and all the different things, you know? Now my gosh, you’re talking about weed that’s out there at sixty, seventy, eighty. You get some cannabis wax and you’re looking at ninety percent.
John (21:02)
Yeah.
Chris (21:03)
T H C. Y’all, if you can’t do the math, that’s 60% stronger. Crazy. Crazy. I mean, that’s I I don’t even know what that has got to be doing to the human body. And then the reality of it is these the delivery system with all the chemicals that go in. I mean, you know, smoking peach flavor sounds cool. I’m sure it tastes good. I never tasted it, but dude, that peach flavoring is not designed to be heated up and put into your lungs. It’s a problem.
John (21:31)
Yeah, thirty years ago it was paraquat being put on it, because it was trying to kill the the weed. the DEA people were and so they would spray it paracat, but it would also cause horrific s symptoms and perhaps even Parkinson’s. But that was years ago, yeah.
Chris (21:56)
It’s a chemical cocktail that we’re doing nowadays with these delivery systems on nicotine and weed. Although I’ve not heard anything about nicotine doing the same thing and whatnot. But John, I mean it’s it’s just it is absolutely utterly crazy, insane the level of of height of percentage that that that our folks are using nowadays. And it it’s really alarming. I mean this is this is like when we had alcohol and nothing but alcohol around the turn of the century we learned how to distill liquor. It made liquor
Woo way more potent. All we had before then was mead. M-E-A-D mead.
John (22:32)
You drink it just fermented honey. So that was yeah.
Chris (22:36)
Fermin and honey, man. That was it. All
right? And we had this stuff. I’m actually having a on the show. I I figure we’re talking about we’re
John (22:42)
Well, I wrote to us something.
Chris (22:45)
talking about cannabis. I might as well have a glass of wine, John. We had wine, right?
John (22:49)
About a sandra,
Chris (22:51)
now we’ve got liquor that’s eighty, ninety percent. I mean, you get you get grain alcohol, you know, that’s fine. We did that with weed and it has just proliferated the realities here. So that’s
That’s what we’re talking about, and I I guess we’re guessing a little bit and the fact that the hormone system is impacted is interesting. A hundred and ninety-nine thousand five hundred and sixty-five CHS involved emergency department visits were identified in the C D D surveillance data from january twenty third through May the twenty sixth. That’s a lot.
John (23:25)
you
I find that stunning, extraordinary, worth of
Chris (23:32)
Why?
John (23:35)
Yeah.
Chris (23:35)
What?
John (23:38)
Well I’m sorry I didn’t understand you. Why?
Chris (23:40)
I’m asking you the question why?
John (23:42)
Well, I i it just I I thought it was less than that. I just I didn’t have any idea that there’d be that many incidents of it. And I’m kinda wondering, many of those are frequent flyers, I’m sure. And by that I mean Yeah.
Chris (23:58)
Maybe, maybe that’s multiple people or more the same people, multiple events.
John (24:01)
Yeah.
Chris (24:02)
The apparent dramatic increase after October twenty five doesn’t prove CHS suddenly exploded. A a didactic CHS diagnostic code was introduced then, meaning clinicians become much better at able to identify and record it. But the C D Z specifically cautions that improved recognition likely explains part of the increase. I mean
I I don’t know when this started happening. I I would be very curious because our hypothesis, I think, John, is pretty sound academically.
John (24:31)
Uh-huh.
Chris (24:33)
I don’t know. This is a concern. If you’re a weed smoker and you’re doing weed and you start having abdominal pain, I would imagine it’s gotta start out somewhat mild. I don’t think it could just hit like a kidney stone and start wrecking you. Maybe it does, but understand if you’re feeling funny in the after smoking thing.
Because you’ve been smoking a little bit chronic, pay attention, man, because your body’s greatly being affected. And I’ll tell you what, the brain and the testes are the fat soluble substance organs in the body, the lungs, the stomach, the abdomen area is not. So you must have a lot of weed put into your system, is what I’ve just gotta I mean, I’ve got I gotta assume, right?
John (25:11)
Yeah. I think the question too
is like when we had when I was in the Navy years ago in the eighties, is that we’d have sailors and marines and some of them would be these old salts that would be, you know, they they’d been drinking consistently and a case of beer a day, for example, and they’d be put on be
Chris (25:34)
That’s a lot of beer.
John (25:36)
put on antibuse. Well they had little skinny legs and then they had the big
hot
bellies. and yeah. Yeah. Well you can’t do it on the ship.
Chris (25:43)
On the boat. Skinny legs and pot bellies.
Really that’s allowed in the military, John? Are you kidding me?
John (25:49)
Well well, I noticed that there was a a cutoff. If you were a junior officer or junior enlisted, you had to be slim. But by the time you’d let’s say made major, you you could be a little chunky, you know. But the the question
Chris (26:07)
You could chunk out a little bit. Well, we gotta help those guys out, man. They’re getting older and their metabolism changes.
John (26:11)
and I know that Pete Hes Hexeth is trying to get everybody
Chris (26:14)
boy.
John (26:15)
back in fighting shape and all of that, but
Chris (26:19)
Yeah, he he does push ups.
John (26:19)
There’s a tradition
there’s a tro there’s a tradition in the Navy where a little chunk is not so bad. So
Chris (26:28)
really? That’s funny.
John (26:29)
Yeah. But here’s
my question, and this is they would be drinking that much and they would stop. and they would go to detox and they would actually go into the to the Navy’s alcohol rehabilitation program. It would it called it it was a center, and they’d go in there and they would be all clean and you know, I I would I would stay away from sober.
until they had practiced, but they’d go back to drinking and then they would be given an abuse and they would drink through the antibuse.
Chris (27:12)
my gosh. Okay. Anabuse, what John’s talking about is a
John (27:13)
And they would throw up and they would keep through.
Chris (27:16)
medicate hold on, John. Anabuse is a medication John’s talking about where we give people trying to get into recovery a medication and the medication makes your body like basically very reactive to alcohol specifically. This is only with alcohol. If you touch alcohol, you will get absolutely violently ill. So one little half a beer and you will absolutely get violently ill. I’ve had people working on cars that are on an abuse.
and they get antifreeze, you know, dumped out on their arm or something, and they get sick from it. Your body cannot touch alcohol. That’s what antibuse is.
John (27:48)
That’s right.
Chris (27:49)
Aid for recovering individuals, yeah.
John (27:52)
So I I didn’t want to go any further than that, but I would assume that there is in this case with the f as the let’s say as the liver attempts to filter the the breakdown of fat cells in the body, it it you go and get reintoxicated again, and then you start having the reaction of you’re reacting physically and physiological reactions.
to the cannabides that the that you’ve not had for maybe even a couple of days, but then you go back and you just start all over again and you get sick all over again. And it the cycle
goes on.
Chris (28:37)
It’s terrible.
John (28:38)
Yeah.
Chris (28:39)
all right, let’s move on to a segment of myths busted, right? Busted,
John (28:43)
okay. Method.
Chris (28:45)
confirmed, or complicated. I don’t like the option of complicated, but I figured substances of cannabis is complicated. And honestly, just a mental note before we go into that of myths, you know.
Of all the substances, is it still true, John, to say that we know a lot about what alcohol does to your body and withdrawal and and medical issues and heroin and ecstasy and the various substances? Is it still true that we know as little about cannabis, less than any other substance? Is that is that a is that a true statement?
John (29:25)
I I think it’s not a true statement. I think well, I think we don’t know that much, but I think we treat it as though it’s not harmful. And so you can’t get the grants, you can’t get the perhaps the studies on this that you that you would need to the to do the studies.
Chris (29:45)
Definitely.
John (29:46)
And that’s my my point of view is is that and I think the current administration
seems to say and give a pass to cannabis use or and that sort of and that.
Chris (30:03)
there’s a lot you could pin on Trump, John, but current administration if you’re talking about the American administration of of Washington Trump, I don’t think you could pin I don’t think you could pin this on him. What do you mean by that? I’m I’m confused.
John (30:13)
Well,
he s he seems to decriminalize some of the aspects of it.
Chris (30:19)
It’s not been an agenda of our current administration, has it?
John (30:23)
Yeah, he’s they’ve they’ve decriminalized it. Neil
Chris (30:26)
No, no. I
I I totally disagree. Yeah, we can we can get Neil to Google it and back us up, but that’s a state’s issue. I mean the different states in the Union have made like Delta Nine and Delta Eight or full blown THC legal, but it’s still actually is am I not correct to say Neil, go ahead and do us a Google on this. We’ll do a we’ll do a a myth or two, if you would. it’s still an illegal drug federally. F f federally it it it absolutely is illegal.
John (30:53)
Yeah. Well, they’re taking away some
of that. So that’s my
Chris (30:57)
Have they?
John (30:58)
yeah. So maybe I’m wrong. Neil?
Chris (31:00)
Okay. Well we’re
gonna argue about that one until Neil tells us. Let’s go to the first boot myth. Busted, true, or complicated? All right, the myth weed helps nausea. We just talked about it. What do you say?
John (31:12)
Yeah.
I say it’s complicated. Okay.
Chris (31:15)
Yeah, it’s kind of scared.
John (31:16)
Yeah. I think it really authentically in in moderate doses or is kind of takes actually helps. And I think you can I think in the past you’ve had marinol that was a synth synthetic
that given us pills when you couldn’t take the weed, and when it was against the law to do all that. so but there would be people that have cancer patients and it’s given some relief to them. And increases appetite,
Chris (31:54)
Yeah, I you know, I I it’s complicated by it.
John (31:57)
you know.
Chris (31:58)
Yeah, it it it is it is I I don’t think we understand it. like you just it you just evoked the endocrine system hormones, you know, my most curious
John (32:06)
Okay.
Chris (32:06)
topic lately and my journey in my brain. And I I I just I I I don’t think we understand what’s going on. I mean, they have anti nausea applications in some settings, yet frequent cannabis use can paradoxically produce CHS and severe vomiting like we’ve talked about. So
that’s just a fantastic contradiction. I I I don’t I don’t know what the deal is. Neil, what do you what do you say? You got anything for us yet? Check, check, check. No, not yet.
check the chat. Check the chat, he says. How do I check the chat, man? I’m technically challenged. There it is. He did do
John (32:45)
Do that. What is it so?
Chris (32:48)
a chat for us. He said the Trump administration did not decriminalize or federally legalize marijuana. Instead, following December twenty five executive order. boy, he loves the pen there. The Justice Department enacted a historic shift in April twenty twenty six. this is just April. Come on, I missed it, John.
By reclassifying state licensed medical marijuana and FDA approved cannabis products from Schedule One to Schedule Three under the Controlled Substance Act. I remember that. That’s true. Yeah, he did he did bring it down on the the But that was
John (33:22)
Didn’t make it as well.
Chris (33:23)
ridiculous, man. All right, for those around the world, in in the United States we have like classifications one, two and three of schedules schedule one, schedule two, schedule three of controlled substances. Those are the illegal drugs that we’ve done in the states.
And schedule schedule one is like bad, bad, bad. I mean you can’t you can’t do these drugs. I mean you you you know. Schedule three is kinda like, meh, you know, it’s illegal, but meh, okay. Well, sc marijuana never should have been a schedule one thing anyway, John. Come on. Would you disagree?
John (33:53)
I agree.
No, I don’t disagree. I agree with you. But but I’m
Chris (33:59)
Yeah, yeah. So
John (34:00)
saying that it it kind of looks a little a bit away from from that. But then you know, with the DSA,
Chris (34:09)
Yeah.
John (34:11)
you know they all want decriminalization of all the all the drugs and Yeah. And then also the the libertarian.
Chris (34:16)
Really the Dem Do they really? The democratic socialists
of America, so around the world, I’m sure you maybe have heard, maybe you haven’t, it’s our politics, but we got this group that’s they’re
John (34:28)
Get away with do away with
Chris (34:30)
wanting to legalize everything. That’s I guess that’s very libertarian of them. Yeah.
John (34:33)
Libertarians, yeah. So there’s the libertarian
right too, who’s the same thing. So
Chris (34:38)
Okay,
John. It’s natural, so it’s safe. Busted? Confirmed or complicated?
John (34:43)
I think that’s busting poison ivy s
poison ivy is natural, but it’s it’s not safe. poke berries
Chris (34:50)
Okay.
John (34:51)
are very poisonous and they’re
Chris (34:55)
Which one are those? Are those those little red berries?
John (34:57)
yeah, purple. And you know my people up in Hillbilly Land used to make poke salad out of that, but not the yeah, that’s your people too, and they t
Chris (35:05)
That’s my people. That’s my people. Come on now.
John (35:08)
they would make poke salad.
And we would have poke salad, they’d call it poke salad.
Chris (35:15)
Seriously.
John (35:16)
but you’d have to be very careful on how you you made the salad, otherwise you’d get
Chris (35:20)
All right,
those are my brothers and sisters in the southern part of West Virginia, by the way. That’s not us up north. I gotta point that out. Well, I never had no poke salad. We had smart berries, those little red berries, you know what I’m talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We call them
John (35:31)
Yeah.
Chris (35:33)
smart berries because if you ate you were gonna get like violently ill or something. I don’t know whatever would happen. I never ate
John (35:37)
And you weren’t so smart, were ya?
Chris (35:39)
And I I was smart because you didn’t eat
John (35:41)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (35:43)
natural tells us where something came from, not whether it’s harmless, you know, that’s that’s completely busted. This is
This is not just natural and safe. It it it has issues. you can’t become addicted to marijuana. That’s an easy one, right? Busted.
John (35:58)
Yeah, you can, but there’s people that still talk
Chris (35:59)
Yeah, we already talked about that too.
John (36:01)
about that. They still say that.
Chris (36:03)
Be people
do. drug addicts and people that have problems with drugs are very defended and kinda come up with all kinds of crazy statements that they can make. It’s kinda like that’s that’s one of I mean that’s just silly. And I already explained that with the the withdrawal symptoms and stuff. Myth marijuana is harmless because nobody overdoses like they do on epopioids. Okay, we’re already I already talked about that. busted, I say.
John (36:27)
I say that or misleading, what do you say?
Chris (36:31)
I say full shit about that
John (36:32)
Okay. How about that?
Chris (36:35)
You know. Weed makes you safer driver than alcohol does.
John (36:40)
no.
Chris (36:41)
I want to talk to all the youths on this one. Let me repeat it, John. Be loud and proud on your answer. Myth weed makes you safer driver than alcohol.
John (36:51)
That is busted.
Chris (36:55)
It’s nonsense!
John (36:55)
Busting. So
Buster, you’re you’re less say you’re like you’re inebriated from alcohol or you’re driving like a person that’s a hundred and five years old, you know. Your your references are so slow.
Chris (37:09)
You know, it’s it’s so funny to me that the kids believe this.
John (37:12)
I’m sorry.
Chris (37:14)
Yeah, yeah, no, my bad on that one. I you know, I just we grew up drinking and driving. All right. It was bad in the eighties. you know, I’m not gonna say that I did it a lot until I got to college and I may have a few times, and I’m glad that I’m still alive, you know? Y listen, i play this five minute segment for your kids. y it’s amazing to me that children
Youth, young adults now will s w would never think about driving drunk, John. They just absolutely wouldn’t do it. They know it’s bad, they know it’s dangerous, they know it’s stupid, and they will swear that weed makes you a safer driver. I concentrate better. Did we say that in the eighties, maybe in the sixties and seventies? With alcohol? I mean,
John (38:01)
Yeah. With alcohol. No.
Chris (38:03)
yeah. I’m I’m a calmer driver with alcohol,
John (38:05)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (38:06)
man. I I’m okay.
Yeah, no, I’ve I focused more.
John (38:09)
And you’re
gonna be r you’re gonna overreact. You’re gonna you’re gonna get that guy with that’s gonna kinda put on the the the almost putting on the lights, but they they y y it’s a little bit there and you went really
Chris (38:24)
I don’t know what they’re doing.
John (38:25)
slow.
Chris (38:29)
Cannabis compare reaction time coordination, decision making and perception. The precise relationship between THC levels and an individual impairment is more complicated than alcohol’s relationship with blood alcohol content. But dude, the y you you know, I heard commercials recently that says, you know, if you feel different, you drive different, okay? That’s the dagum truth. Myth If marijuana helps your anxiety, it’s treating your anxiety.
John (38:55)
think it ever really treats anxiety. I think it probably masks it a little bit for some people, but it doesn’t.
Chris (39:01)
Mm, mm-hmm.
John (39:05)
But most of my clients that are heavy cannabis users talk about getting anxious and they get paranoid and they say
Chris (39:14)
man, I had a paranoid trip in college. I thought the police were coming for me, man. I was a rule follower, okay? I absolutely thought I was done. I thought I was gonna be kicked out of college and my life was over and my mom was gonna kill me. It was very, very bad. Yeah. it it listen, it doesn’t help your anxiety. It doesn’t treat your anxiety, it makes you high, it makes you freaking not care about anything. I I don’t even I think that’s busted.
I am never going to suggest that somebody that has anxiety in my office go ahead and smoke some weed and get some symptom relief from that. That’s not it’s not happening. You’re just drunk. You’re just high. It’s not, you know. myth. Legal means safe.
John (40:01)
It’s there’s two different things. That’s two different, that’s a non what is it called? Where you have one thing is i it’s a non sequitur. Basically is what’s legal doesn’t necessarily mean it’s safe. League legal is a is policy, legal is law.
Chris (40:21)
Mm-hmm.
John (40:22)
safety is is how you react. I mean, do you know are are your reactions impaired? So it’s not
Not the same.
Chris (40:32)
Yeah, I mean it’s I I don’t and also I I guess I guess my thing is what do we mean by safe? I mean, you smoke weed and watch a movie, you know, enjoy a Star Wars flick, you know, great. I mean w that’s fine. You’re you’re not going to likely overdose, you’re not going to likely detox, you know, it’s we’ve talked about some of that a little bit, but but what does safe safe mean? You’re you’re not a safe driver. you know, but I don’t we can’t
think that it doesn’t do harm. you know, it this is not nutritious supplements. Okay. This is no redeeming nutritional value. So, you know, s s s safety s medically, okay. You know, there’s some things. It helps glaucoma, it helps seizures, it it actually can have some counterindicated space for healthy things when you have a problem.
It actually kinda helps with nausea for cancer victims, like I said before, but also it has what I say, can cancer hyperenesis. You get hyper nausea. So I don’t know. It’s
John (41:37)
Yeah. You
get well, you’re throwing up. So it’s not just you’re dry heaving and you’re throwing up bowel, that can’t be very good for you. B I L E. And so basically there isn’t anything left in in you. So it does just the opposite. and I I I think that’s dangerous. I think when I was in high school, people with the nine percent maybe of
marijuana, they would go down to the planetarium in Bradenton and they would watch the the show and they’d they’d zone out but
Chris (42:18)
Absolutely.
John (42:18)
that’s you know, they they waited until the high went down, I guess, when they got back on the road.
Chris (42:24)
Right. I’ve
never had acid before, but I gotta wonder what it’s like to watch a planetarium star show with a laser show with acid in your system. That’s gotta be nuts. Just nuts.
John (42:32)
That’s well
I had some friends that did that ’cause acid was around big time when I was in high school. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (42:38)
Back in the peace, love in the day.
You can see on the YouTube version we have our peace signs flying. If
John (42:42)
Yeah. I do I do. Yeah.
Chris (42:46)
you’re not on the YouTube version, get onto the YouTube and subscribe. Please subscribe. We’re providing you free content. Get off of that freaking podcast and subscribe.
John (42:49)
Yeah. Yeah. You y you know, the interesting thing is that everything old
is new again. You know, they’re doing a lot of things now, peace out and love out and all that. They did that in my generation, you know. Okay. I’m gonna embroider my genus
Chris (43:04)
Coming back, man. It’s coming back.
John (43:08)
now and
Chris (43:10)
All right, I don’t know how we can be short about this segment, John, but I want to transition us to like, you know, the substance abuse field, and the concerns about addiction. you certainly have concerns about, you know, if this being your drug of choice, listen, about ten to fifteen percent of our population, at least in the States, and I think that’s pretty consistent around the world, has addiction issues. John, have you ever read anything about that? Is that is that consistent around the world?
John (43:38)
That’s pretty accurate.
I think it’s across populations. I think there’s some people that
Chris (43:43)
Right.
John (43:44)
might tolerate alcohol better, but we’re ethnicities, but they’re they’re they’re just as addicted f behaviors for other things as that.
Chris (43:55)
Yeah, my my
my Austrian and Hungarian culture must tolerate alcohol better. Is that one of the ones?
John (44:02)
My Irish and Scottish
does not.
Chris (44:07)
No, I bet it does not. That’s right.
John (44:08)
It does not. So
Chris (44:10)
listen, you know, the old diagnosis set in DSM four or or or revised and or and earlier really kind of looked at alcohol d abuse as a continuum of substance abuse problems. Social use if you use it and doesn’t cause much life problems, it’s just social use. Most of us are there. Abuse, you have a problem with it and you use it continually.
some problem develops, you know. the the big jump over into the addiction world, where you all use our words clinically inappropriately, you all in the world, I’m gonna say Ay, everybody’s a narcissist. No,
John (44:48)
Mm-hmm. You’re a narcissist, Chris.
Chris (44:53)
addiction has a lack of control is the primary differential between somebody that’s not an addict and somebody that is. And that level of control
is mostly thought about as in my mind, predictability. If you can completely predict what’s going on, you know, then you you know what’s happening. If you have no idea, I may have nothing tonight and I may have a lot tonight, I never know. It’s unpredictable. That’s an element of control. So frequency, amount, potency, tolerance, withdrawal, impaired control consequences of use, dis using despite consequences. Th these are some of the things that we think about when we’re looking at addiction.
Can you be addicted to weed, John?
John (45:37)
I definitely think you can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (45:40)
We know you can. Right.
You know, there we we’ve we’ve got some other shows you know that have talked about weed before, right? So we’ll we’ll we’ll lean on that. I mean it this isn’t No, no ahead, go ahead.
John (45:56)
I have clients that that I’m sorry. I
have clients that say they they smoke weed before they go to sleep ’cause they can’t sleep otherwise.
Chris (46:06)
Mm-hmm. A lot of people will use it for sleep aid.
John (46:10)
Or they’ll g wake up
first thing in the morning and they feel a little anxiety and they smoke weed.
Chris (46:16)
Wait a minute. Do we do it at night or do we do it in the morning, John? What wh which one? Or both? What? Where?
John (46:20)
Both. Both.
Chris (46:21)
Okay, both. How about work? Do we do that work?
John (46:24)
I have a client that goes out to his car.
Chris (46:30)
no.
John (46:30)
Yeah.
Chris (46:32)
Have you sent them to rehab yet?
John (46:34)
no, I don’t have a problem.
Chris (46:38)
No never.
John (46:39)
Mom and
they said go to rehab and I said no, no, no just like the Amy Weinhouse. Yeah.
Chris (46:45)
You know what drives me nuts in
in comical, I mean, the recovering community is amazing. I’m not saying anything that’s offensive to them, trust me, but they we they they laugh. The recovering community, you know, like when you go to rehab you like smoke your last doobie in the parking lot, I guess now. Used to be drink your last beer, finishing off the six pack drive into your rehab.
John (47:05)
Yeah.
I had somebody do that. And they drove themselves to rehab and it was out of this God up in the mountains in North Carolina and they they checked themselves in and they had beer bottles and you know beer cans everywhere on the fr on the No, he got there. He got there and that was Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (47:23)
It’s not funny. I’m not again, we’re not laughing at it. It’s it’s it’s a very serious issue, but it’s comical. He got there, baby. Right?
Yeah, it’s it’s just i you know, when when addiction is there and the unpredictably unpredictability is there and the and the issues of control are there, I mean it it it’s really devastating, but but there’s a lot of there’s a lot of I mean, you ha you gotta know a substance abuse mentality, right? Like
you know, an addict’s brain is is kind of different. dude. Just
John (47:54)
You’re wonderful people. Wonderful people.
Chris (47:58)
yes, they are. You know, honestly, as a matter of fact, John, I I will stay live on the show, th this is one of my funnest things to do is to work with the recovering community. humblest people. The the most grounded individuals. Yeah, they get into twelve step work and they’re they’re learning about how to live
a fully healthy emotional life. Like I love the recovering community. These
John (48:25)
I do too.
Chris (48:26)
some of the coolest dudes I’ve ever been had and men and women that I’ve ever had a opportunity to work with.
Right. anyway. Go ahead, I’m sorry. Yeah.
John (48:33)
When I had a I’m sorry, I had a psychologist
that was a recovering alcoholic and he was as close to death as you could come. So his liver was shot, his kidneys were shot and all of that. But he had lived in recovery for 15 years.
Chris (48:50)
Mm-hmm.
John (48:50)
And he was as sweet and humble a person as he could be, and he could talk to somebody that was dealing with alcohol addiction.
in in throes of it and he said, I’ve been there. You know, I
Chris (49:06)
No, yeah.
John (49:06)
yeah.
Chris (49:07)
Yeah. No, I as well had colleagues that I learned a lot early in my career about this. You know, the the adult services mental health substance abuse director. yeah, he I I I talked to him a lot personally about this. We developed a little bit of friendship and man, yeah, he was like you know, he would do private practice like we do, and he’d sit there and drink vodka and Gatorade all day long because he was smart. He was an alcoholic, but he was wicked smart. Alcoholics are brilliant.
He understood the electrolytes, he understood the the the mineral nutrients and this is like in the seventies and eighties I suppose ’cause he was an old guy when I was young in the field. And he’d just sit there and do therapy and drink liquor all day, John.
How
John (49:51)
That’s I knew a fashional counselor
that did that, yeah. Yeah, the seventy.
Chris (49:56)
Wow. Yeah, it’s a it’s it’s
absolutely nuts. we’re gonna go on. We have a new segment of a panel question where we can kind of kick this around, talk about it and whatnot. a panel question, and then we’ll do practical questions in the shrink wrap up. So we’re kind of getting some segments together for you and stuff. And I want to comment, I did in fun loving, I decided to drink a little bit of wine during the show, and that’s not to poke at anybody, and I hope it doesn’t offend anybody.
The the the reality of it is it’s fun. And and and the thing is is I I wanna make the point of like, you know, alcohol and really even heroin for that matter, or cocaine, if that I mean, I can’t imagine I would want to be that kind of jacked up ever. I’ve only had weed and alcohol, but like, you know, these are not bad things. It it’s it’s not. We we we you know i it it it it gets a bad name and we used to degenerate people, like think they’re like the losers, the druggies, the this type
Thing. It’s like it’s just a substance. What it is is when you have alcohol introduced into an alcoholic’s body, the genetic reality of that body takes over. In my learning, I
John (51:06)
You cannot take
Chris (51:08)
heard Dr. Father Martin talking about addiction, and I learned a lot from that in his old classics of chalk talk. Look it up on YouTube, you’ll love it. Black and white, brilliant, and it hasn’t changed until today, honestly, and all the things that he talked about.
And he said, First a man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, and then the drink takes the man And this of course refers to women also.
John (51:29)
Yeah.
Not that that I it just was so compelling. I had that in the Navy. in the in my my s when I was in the program for drug and alcohol. ’cause what they did is they they actually had people that would be working with those who were addicts, addiction.
alcoholics. because we didn’t have any drug use or other drugs, because you couldn’t stay in the Navy that way. But with alcohol they try to keep you in. And we
Chris (52:10)
Mm-hmm.
John (52:11)
saw I think I saw most of the chalk talks, you know, and
Chris (52:16)
Yeah. Yeah. I Chalk Chalk is awesome. I I I I just I I just watched them over and over again. It was during an eighteen hour education course that I took for DUI offenders and they would be wanting to get their license back and they all had to come to my class well not my class, the education course and then some would go on to group therapies and this type of thing. But I just watched Chalk Talk over and over and over and over again, honestly, probably
John (52:41)
It was really good.
Chris (52:42)
a hundred and tw thirty two times, right?
and that’s what gave me the basis upon substance abuse understanding. I got very lucky. Otherwise, I’d be like a lot of other clinicians. I’m glad this is something good to throw into the show. You know, John and I work with substance abuse as well as mental health, and there are a lot. John, what percentage would you say do not work with alcohol or drug addictions or understand drug addictions? Think about it for a moment because there’s a blind spot that a lot of therapists have about alcohol and drug dependence.
They don’t know what addiction is. Honestly. They refer out. They don’t want to learn it. They don’t want to deal with it. Wow. That’s
John (53:21)
Seventy, eighty percent, even higher? I don’t know.
Chris (53:25)
high. I hope that’s not true. Mir man. Yeah, really?
John (53:29)
Yeah, I d I think you I run into therapist all the time and
Chris (53:34)
That’s terrible.
John (53:35)
I don’t see a lot of people doing it. And
I think they’re they’re
Chris (53:38)
That’s terrible, man. Honest to God. Eighty
percent of therapists, just in our spitball estimation, I would have probably come in high too, but I thought sixty five, seventy percent was high. Eighty percent, you’re you you I could see your point.
John (53:51)
Huh. Neil?
Chris (53:55)
He’s not gonna Google that one. That’s that’s I mean, I don’t know how I don’t know if that’s ever been measured. We’ll just we’ll just leave that one go.
John (54:02)
All right.
Chris (54:02)
But let’s move on to our panel question or questions, depending upon what we have time for, which we’re running up on s 60 minutes soon. So panel questions are designed, I think, on this show. It’s a new segment we’re gonna play around with. We can fight about this, we can discuss about this, we could disagree, we can think, we can talk, we can kind of go.
on different directions with these panel questions. This is designed not just for us to just simply agree on the didactic, the information. We want to talk about these really prevailing questions. and and really think through them with you. That’s what that’s what I’m experimenting with this panel discussion
question segment. What’s that, John?
John (54:40)
Well yeah, yeah.
I was just gonna say the increased legalization has not d only created more people addicted to cannabis in the states, but also the states becoming more addicted to the sales of dispensaries from taxing the dispensaries and the revenues. What do you think?
Chris (55:05)
So you’re going right to the legalization panel question and that is an interesting one. I you’re
John (55:11)
I’m sorry, I missed that. Okay. Yeah.
Chris (55:13)
fine. I I I don’t know, man. I’ve kinda gone back and forth with this a little bit. I I I feel like
If you legalize substances like heroin and cocaine and liquid G and ecstasy and mushrooms, it’s kind of like y y you have so much impact on society, and when something is negatively impacting societies around the world, we litigate it and create laws for the betterment of society. And I I really feel like
Even nicotine, if we were to find this new substance new to the world, nicotine, and talked about what it does and what it is and how it operates and how many people it’s killed and all the delivery systems with cigarettes and stuff. Now we’re in twenty twenty six, in t two thousands or the eighties and nineties. We would never have thought about illegalizing this. I believe it was a new substance now. We knew exactly how many people it killed by smoking cigarettes, we might have made it illegal.
So
There is a case to be made for making substances illegal for the greater good of society. But I believe the states at least and democracies around the world allow people to make their own decisions. So harder drugs just seem stupid, keep illegal. But yeah, legalizing weed, why not?
John (56:54)
Yeah, we live in a republic and that’s one of the things that gets bandied about is that we’re in a democracy. We’re not in a a a a democracy. Athens was ancient Athens was a pure democracy. And and of course you had slaves
Chris (57:08)
Fair. Thank you for correcting me.
John (57:10)
and women couldn’t you know, but if you
Chris (57:13)
Yeah, it it that
is a popular myth in the United States, the word democracy. You’re right, we’re a republic. I love that.
John (57:17)
Yeah, we’re representative
government. But if the if the Republic and the legislators say, you know, we’re gonna keep this illegal and we’re gonna keep you know, the but we’re only gonna we’re gonna open up other drugs, you know, for example Kratom or or marijuana, we’ll keep that legal. Yeah. So
I’m I’m okay with that. I’m just but that still means that
Chris (57:49)
So go ahead and legalize weed.
John (57:52)
I’m thinking that we need to be well, I’m not I’m not a big fan of it.
Chris (57:58)
we’re
pin him. Let me pin you, man. You are the president of the United States and you got the executive order and you’ve got the CDC in your pocket. You got the DHS in your pocket. You got everything. And you know, let’s just make you the Chancellor of the world. We’re going to a world economic.
John (58:10)
I wanna I’d rather
I’d rather build my the White House in gold, you know. So that’s
Chris (58:18)
What are you doing for the world, John? Are you making this legal or illegal, sir?
John (58:22)
Okay. I would say we keep the hard drugs like heroin illegal, some of the controlled substances and that that that cannot be used for recreational use, things like fentanyl and and that would that would be illegal and that there would be more of
more punishment not for the the user or the abuser, but more for
Chris (58:58)
Subscriber.
John (58:59)
the prescriber, but more penalties for the prescriber. For
Chris (59:04)
Mm.
John (59:05)
you know, a lot of our fentanyl comes from China, for example. And or
Chris (59:11)
Is that really true?
John (59:13)
yes it is, but you have they’re the precursors of that.
like most of our drugs in America that we use for our health, we it comes from China. But it goes through sometimes goes through Mexico or Canada. Okay.
Chris (59:31)
It’s funny how we’re connected so around the world, isn’t it? well let’s let’s move on in that I I did I did want to talk about the the the culture normalizing marijuana. you know, it it is it is absolutely amazing to me. I was raising my kids and you know I well, maybe I don’t want to talk about that on the nah, never mind, I’m gonna forget I I I have I have really big concerns.
about like you know this has been nominalized. It’s it’s it’s such a a cultural phenomenon that has taken over, at least in the States where it’s it’s it’s been marginalized as a non issue, a non big deal. And you know, it used to be it used to be like when we were coming up, John, like only the druggies did we like, you know, and it was pot then, like you know, pot heads and they were the they were the losers. They were the druggies and
we all drank alcohol.
John (1:00:29)
They have long hair that
went down to their butt and yeah.
Chris (1:00:32)
Yeah, man, it was terri
Right now, now like the kids don’t drink alcohol. They don’t drink alcohol.
John (1:00:37)
No, no they don’t.
Chris (1:00:39)
No, they sit there and smoke weed and and and and hang in and hang out. It’s like Yeah.
John (1:00:43)
They stay in their basement, their mom’s basement.
Chris (1:00:47)
Like literally we me and my brother drove down Marshall University in West Virginia, Fraternity Row, on a Friday night on the way to a basketball game, and there were no kids at Fraternity Row.
‘Cause they were they were just not visible. They were like hanging out inside their their space. And so I I don’t know. I just we we’ve
John (1:01:06)
That’s not
that’s not what I remember when I went to Marshall to visit. It’s crazy, yeah.
Chris (1:01:10)
I Marshall was crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Now you know, culturally it has it has really just totally changed. You know, now nobody drinks alcohol and all the kids smoke weed. They all smoke weed. It’s like so common now. Is that good? Is it bad? I don’t know. I’m gonna say complicated, but I you know, I I just I just it you know, it’s not nothing. Okay. It’s it’s just not nothing. All right. We are winding down our little journey together today.
of episode two three seventy. Let’s talk about weed, cannabis, myths busted and the risks nobody talks about. let’s do our practical questions section, John. do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?
John (1:01:56)
You
know, I’m gonna go first if that’s okay.
Chris (1:01:59)
Hit it.
John (1:02:01)
i I think
Chris (1:02:02)
let me let me say I’m sorry, if you’re finding us for the first time. The practical questions is us speaking to you as though we’re the therapist speaking to you, our client, through the screens.
John (1:02:13)
Okay. I think Neil wants to say something.
Chris (1:02:17)
He pops on. Usually when he pops up, that’s the kick.
Neil (1:02:18)
I’m just getting ready for the I’m getting ready for the shrink wrap up.
Chris (1:02:22)
Okay.
John (1:02:22)
okay. To make me miserable.
Okay. you know, if you’re maybe you were introduced at a very young age to to cannabis or weed. and maybe you do it vaping and maybe you will go to a store in a convenience store and pick up something that looks like synthetic weed or you don’t know what you’re taking into your body necessarily.
you’re doing it regularly, you you started it early, you’ve continued it through high school because you get anxious you get anxious during a test or whatever, and you find yourself really depending on it. And and you can you you believe that myth that you can’t be addicted to it or anything of this sort. And the the fact is that you’re not being honest with yourself and I’m challenging you.
as a client, a potential client, is that you examine. You examine why you use it, why you need it, and can you not live without it? Is your use frequent or infrequent? And just sort of do an evaluation of yourself and a self check. And then if you you know you can also enter into denial and it’s not a river in Egypt. It’s
It is a real thing where you deny that you have a problem and you have to be honest, brutally honest with yourself about it.
Chris (1:04:01)
Love that, John. Yeah. Here’s my practical question for you. along the same lines, there’s this big issue with drugs and alcohol, right? Am I addicted? Am I not? What is addiction? Man, all I gotta do is gather ten clinicians in a room, any random ten questions and ask them what is addiction, and it will be a dynamic conversation. It’s kind of wild. But, you know, there’s these questions about am I addicted? Is it addictive? We hopefully have helped you to think about like, yeah, it absolutely can be. It’s a mind and mood altering substance that creates euphoria and it it can be addictive.
If if you intentionally stopped using cannabis at some point in your life, or if you recognize that it can be a health problem on some level, would you ever be willing to stop? And have you stopped for a reason, just to see what changes in your body, your sleep, your mood, your physical health, your anxiety? If those are things just like John were talking about there a little bit ago,
You know, I want you to really consider this as a as an issue, to to evaluate is this a problem for me? It can be abusive. It can also be addicting. Addictive. Addiction. Those are that’s a clinical word to John and I and and Victoria and Casey. we’re gonna move on to and I want you to think about that. So
John (1:05:19)
I was gonna say this
question, and that is I think about in terms of addictive behaviors or addictive or or or substances, it’s about ten percent, and this is pretty consistent throughout, and maybe I’m wrong on this, Chris, and you can rec correct me on it, but around ten percent of the human population will become addicted, or if they use a substance, they could become addicted and
it i i it we don’t know why that is but it seems to be a part of our genetics and and you can see how addiction runs in families or in and in certain populations. For example, I made a joke about being Irish and Scottish, you know it’s not just culture. It’s not no. It’s genetics. So
Chris (1:06:10)
No, it’s genetics. John,
why would I correct you on that fact when I said the same daggum thing about a forty minutes ago? Why?
John (1:06:20)
Well,
I’m getting old, my brain’s turning to mush.
Chris (1:06:24)
Yeah, about ten, fifteen percent of our population and it’s consistent around the world, has absolutely addiction issues and and that’s been a pretty static number for for a little while. We’re gonna ride out here with you, talking about our conversation with weed. first of all, I hope Victoria is okay. She didn’t make it. I don’t know what happened. We’ll have to check on her, make sure she’s still breathing and everything’s okay. She she was almost home and almost ready to log on and we went ahead and started without her ’cause she forgot her computer cord at office and
Maybe she couldn’t turn her computer on is what I’m willing to bet. So John, it’s head to head. We’re gonna do our segment to wrap up out of here. The shrink wrap up.
John (1:07:02)
Which I will do so much
the shrink.
Chris (1:07:06)
You love it, John. Stop complaining. This is where we have a friendly competition. Neil is the judge where we wrap up our show and talk about our our discussion and and John or Neil gets to decide who has the better shrink wrap up at the end of the year. I don’t know, we might have to buy something special for the Victor. John, you want to go first or you want me to go first?
John (1:07:27)
Well,
I’m just gonna say that just to sum up, everything that we said, there there’s evidently not a whole bunch of research, but the research that was done is solid, it’s evidence based, and it does show that hyper imminus imminus mesis is is something that’s real and causes real struggles for for people and that
The tendency is is to do that thing of insanity. If you do something once and it and then you do it again, over and over again, and it’s something that hurts you, that’s insanity. The the thing is is that you might need to consider very much that you might have a problem. I would r ask that you might r and if you’re feeling suicidal or alone, call nine eight eight.
Or get on the SAMHSA, which is a government helpline for for drug use. And I don’t have that number available, but in in that you asked for help. Okay, that’s all you have to do. And you won’t have anybody moralize on you or anybody judge you. Do it.
Chris (1:08:47)
That was shrink wrap up. My shrink wrap up is look, I’m fifty three years old, middle aged, I guess, they say. John’s old as dirt. He’s our senior guy.
John (1:08:59)
I’m closer to Jesus.
Chris (1:09:01)
All right, Neil, there’s gotta be a FU Pa penalty for interrupting the shrink wrap up. Can we get a policy delivered on that one? Think about that. It’s giving you a hard time, John.
John (1:09:11)
Yeah.
Chris (1:09:14)
Do what?
John (1:09:15)
I’m pinned.
Chris (1:09:16)
You’re pinned. You know, we’re not speaking at you. Okay? The the the the the the thing that I say at the front end of the show is that this is the human emotional experience which we endeavor to figure out together. Okay? Young people need to listen. And we need to hear them. They may help us identify some things as well as we can help them to identify some things as well so that we’re all together.
And having a conversation with an open mind. Throughout my career, since 1995, I have found people being very closed about the issue of cannabis, and that is killing people. We now have episodes of cannabis hyperemesis that’s absolutely terrifying people and wrecking our emergency departments. Okay? It’s a lot of freaking people.
Showing up on our emergency departments. Cannabis is not innocuous. Fancy word of saying, no big deal, doesn’t do anything to you. It’s fine. It’s natural. You can’t get addicted to it. These are myths, okay? These are myths. I’ve I’ve spent my career talking to people about myths. I just want us to talk about it, to have an open mind, to understand what is going on, because if you are of the 10 to 15% that has drug and alcohol addictions,
And you use only your drug of choice of cannabis, it’s destroying your life, like John was talking about. I just want us to be in dialogue about it. I want us to blow up denial. That is a concept in addiction that doesn’t allow you to see what is real. So work with us, okay? Let’s talk about it. It isn’t your parents crashing on you, it isn’t old people crushing down on you. It’s us as a society around the world that wants health and wellness, but doesn’t want to be punitive.
and you know, illegalizing everything. So this is the human emotional experience which we endeavor to figure out together. Alright? Thanks.
John (1:11:21)
Thank you.
Neil (1:11:23)
I think honestly, Chris, that was a that was a great great way to to close the close the segment, close the show. So Chris, you get it today.
Chris (1:11:31)
All right, love that. You know, this is a fun topic, honestly, and and it’s something that we really we really need to talk more about. We haven’t talked about substance abuse on the show for a little bit, but we are alcohol as well as mental health therapists and such. And we’re gonna talk about the Lindsey Clancy case. I honestly haven’t watched the news today, but we got some serious court deliberations going on with a dynamic case of n perimeno no postpartum psychosis that is a dramatic case that’s been going on on
these United States and it’s gonna be a dynamic conversation. What’s that,
John (1:12:01)
She’s far from perimenopause. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (1:12:04)
John?
John (1:12:04)
She’s far from perimenopause puzzle. Yeah. So but but
Chris (1:12:07)
Yeah. Right. Right. I miss misspoke.
John (1:12:11)
you know it’s very complicated. And I think the I’ll be frank with just give a little preview. I think the law has not kept up with mental health and the seriousness of this and so it tries to make a a a choice.
a decision that will terribly affect many, many people and many people will not be satisfied with it. If
Chris (1:12:40)
Gonna be an interesting conversation next week, John. You couldn’t even stand to wait till next week. He had to pop it off. Neil, are you gonna join us? Because that’s gonna be fun. You might wanna pop out behind the curtain next week, huh?
Neil (1:12:51)
might we’ll see.
John (1:12:52)
Okay.
Chris (1:12:52)
Ha ha
Neil (1:12:53)
We’ll see how the verdict goes. It’s still a hung thing, so we’ll we’ll see what happens next week. It’ll be interesting.
Chris (1:12:58)
Man, that jury is hong, hong, hong. Day five of deliberations or six now. All right, listens. Thanks for hanging out with us. Take care, stay well, and we will see you guys all next week.
John (1:13:08)
Out of there. Peace out.