In this episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we explore how chronic stress can quietly keep the body stuck in survival mode—and why so many people don’t even realize they’re living in it. Joined by yoga and trauma-aware SEL specialist Lisa Danahy, we break down how hypervigilance develops, what it feels like to be constantly “on guard,” and why logic alone isn’t enough to calm the nervous system. Lisa shares a powerful insight: regulation happens through the body first, not the mind, and introduces simple, practical movement-based tools that help signal safety and release stored stress. From understanding the physical signs of survival mode to trying guided exercises during the episode, this conversation offers a grounded, accessible path back to calm, connection, and balance.
Tune in to See How Movement Resets the Nervous System Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- Why does the body sometimes stay in survival mode even when we are no longer in danger?
- What are the signs that chronic stress has turned into hypervigilance?
- What actually helps the nervous system move from survival mode back to regulation?
Links referenced during the show:
www.CreateCalm.org www.childrensyoga.com www.MondayMindfulness.com www.INAwellness.com https://www.facebook.com/lisa.danahy.1 https://www.facebook.com/INAwellness https://www.facebook.com/RadiantChildYoga https://www.instagram.com/create_calm_yoga https://www.instagram.com/yogatherapywithlisadanahy https://www.instagram.com/radiantchild https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisadanahy https://www.linkedin.com/company/65804859 www.linkedin.com/company/726618 @CreateCalm2256 @yogatherapywithlisadanahy https://vimeo.com/ondemand/createcalmyoga
To book Lisa for a speaking engagement or podcast, please contact:info@CreateCalm.org – (240) 532-CALM (2256)
What is Polyvagal Theory? | Polyvagal Institute
Through a Therapist’s Eyes: ReUnderstanding Your Emotions and Becoming Your Best Self
Chapter 1.14 – How do we handle stress?
Understanding stress responses helps individuals recognize survival mode.Chapter 1.23 – The body goes as the brain thinks.
Mind and body regulation are closely connected.
Through a Therapist’s Eyes: ReUnderstanding Your Marriage and Becoming Your Best as a SpouseChapter 13 – Connection is in the little things.
Safe relationships help regulate the nervous system and reduce hypervigilance.
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/selfmanagement
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/mentalhealthtips
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
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Episode #351 Transcription
Chris (00:01) Hello and welcome to yet another edition of Through a Therapist's Eyes. We are coming you one day after April Fool's Day. So therefore everything that we say will mean everything what we mean it to say and not anything weird that we didn't mean it to say. Anyway, that all worked out well. So we have a show of a wonderful show for you with Ms. Lisa Donahue. We are going to be talking about on episode 351 here, chronic stress, hypervigilance. stuck in survivor mode, question mark, and how movement resets the nervous system. So there's a lot to pack in on this particular episode of Through a Therapist's So listen, this is where usually we have a panel of therapists, Vicki, Casey, John, and myself talk about mental health and substance abuse because we really are licensed clinical therapists doing real clinical work every day. And this is where on Through a Therapist's Diets we talk honestly about what actually helped. So this is where you get insights, ⁓ information about mental health and substance abuse, knowing it's not the delivery of therapy services in any way. ⁓ The three questions that we're going to have you think about while we talk about so much content tonight is, get my computer in the right space. Why does the body sometimes stay in survival mode? And I've got some interesting thoughts about survival mode that I really want you to hear. And then even when we're no longer in danger. Right. And then secondly, what are the signs that chronic stress has turned into hypervigilance? Hypervigilance is a wild word. It kind of means you really are way worried or way active to avoid something that's going on. And the chronic stress can turn into that. And then thirdly, what actually helps the nervous system move from survival mode back to regulation? So let me see, what else do I say? We're on Apple, Spotify. Listen, I've been complaining the last couple of weeks. We haven't had a new YouTube subscriber for I think... Neil, you correct me if I'm wrong. Has it actually been three weeks now? Neil (02:04) No, we've been getting them. They just don't they're not public. So we're actually we've been steadily growing we got in 25 in the last 28 days so We we've growing them where they're just not showing them because they're not public so Chris (02:12) ⁓ Wow. yeah, I feel much better about ourselves suddenly. Okay, if you want an honorable mention on the show when you join the YouTube group, you have to make it public so that we are able to publicly say that you're now part of the group. So how do they do that, Neil? Curious, honestly. Neil (02:31) somewhere in your YouTube settings or just comment. Once you subscribe, comment saying, you know, I'm new to the show. You know, let us know what you like and what you don't like. So just comment. We'll check your comments and reply to those. So let us know. Chris (02:43) Fair enough, fair enough. Thank you, Tech Guy. Thank you. He came out in front of the, behind the curtains and it's not even the month of review. We love seeing you, What else do I gotta say? Listen, contact itthroughtherapisteyes.com is the way to interact with us as well. If you're finding us for the first time, we do a YouTube live on Thursdays, about 6.15 to 6.30. Starting a little bit late today, but we are still good to go. So I like to say this is the human emotional experience and we have missed. Lisa Donahay hanging out back with us again, this is not your first rodeo. How are you ma'am and welcome back? Lisa Danahy (03:15) I'm doing great. I'm so glad to be here. Chris (03:18) And you are hanging out at the beach. I love your background. That's not a fake background, right? That's That's real Lisa Danahy (03:25) It is real and it is a little bit cumbersome because there's lots of outside noises and lighting issues. And so thank you for putting up with me just the way I am. Chris (03:35) Hey, absolutely. We ⁓ have body positivity. We have ⁓ unconditional positive regard. have ⁓ unconditional acceptance, Lisa. We're all over all these things. How did I do with all that? That was actually not bad. That was not bad. That was not bad. All right. Did I get all my stuff out of the way? No, I didn't because I have a lot to tell you about Miss Lisa. Girl's got a lot going on. She's a powerful educator and entrepreneurial. Lisa Danahy (03:49) That was pretty impressive. It's pretty good. Chris (04:04) Her non-profit Create Calm has facilitated cultural shifts and deep healing for thousands of students, teachers, families, in hundreds of schools and community organizations really across the country since. You've been doing this since 2016? Lisa Danahy (04:21) Yeah, yeah, and before that I was running a school. So I've been in the trenches a long time. Chris (04:25) Yeah, indeed. Yoga therapy, MS, a BA in psychology. And you just said 30 years. My goodness. You need some mental health as a school administrator and SEL, which means social and emotional learning. You're going to us talk about SEL, I think a little bit today. Curriculum development, certification as an advanced educator and trainer, specializations, providing programs for neurodiverse disabled. underserved children and young adults and training for educators, therapists, parents and caregivers for self-care and resiliency. That is a lot of stuff. But not to mention she's also a Hay House. I don't know what Hay House is though. She's a Hay House featured article. What is Hay House? I'm curious. Lisa Danahy (05:09) ⁓ I'm a Hay House featured author. Hay House is a large publishing company that does a lot of books and publications on self-help. Chris (05:21) Okay, can I do a shameless plug for my publisher? Lisa Danahy (05:25) Please do. Chris (05:26) ⁓ I'm with Morgan James Publishing. Never heard of Hay House. That's terrible of me. That was poorly done. But anyway. So how do we launch off with this stuff? We've got a lot of stuff. And also, by the way, I'm going to have ⁓ a note to you, the listener. I've been spending a little bit of time when we publish the show. You know, I'm doing more purposeful about the links that we have, anything we talk about the show and stuff. So. Lisa Danahy (05:38) It's all good. It's all real. ⁓ Chris (05:59) I got a, I don't know, Lisa, you might need to tell me how to whittle it down because I got about one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 by a quick count links that I'm going to have available in our website to catch up with you. so please check those out though. I've been putting some, some effort into that. ⁓ yeah, absolutely. So how do we start off? I guess this is a, it's a big title, right? ⁓ you know, really, I mean, chronic stress, who has that? Lisa Danahy (06:19) Thank you. Chris (06:29) ⁓ hypervigilance, right? Hypervigilance is such a strange word. gave a little bit of an intro to that in the whole intro there. And then I'm excited to talk a little bit about survivor mode. And then we're going to talk about movement and, and, the nervous system and kind of yoga as a part of just movement in how the, how to reset all this stress that we have, because my gosh, we have a lot of it. These are a lot of heavy topics. Lisa Danahy (06:30) Nobody, right? Chris (06:58) How do you, you, can we cover them all? Lisa Danahy (07:01) Yes, because you know what, they all feed back to one thing, mind-body connection. Chris (07:02) Okay? I love that. What does that mean? Lisa Danahy (07:11) So when you're talking about stress, when you're talking about ⁓ emotional wellness, when you're talking about survival, when you're talking about ⁓ connections, it all comes back to our capacity to connect with our nervous system, our capacity to regulate ourselves. And that happens through the mind-body connection. Chris (07:36) Yeah. You know, I think there's a lot that we're really learning about this. I, in my conference training that I do, ⁓ I did a little bit of polyvagal theory and, you know, it's funny, you know, when you start to, you know, present on something and teach on something, it forces you to learn it a little bit more. Have you ever noticed that? Lisa Danahy (07:49) Mm-hmm. I love that. That's why I'm such a research science geek, because if I don't know an answer to something, I'm going to go and look at it, and then all of sudden I know a lot. It's kind of fun. Chris (08:04) Yeah. Yeah. So this polyvagal stuff, I mean, it's all the neuro-processing, the nervous system that we have. And my goodness, what a dynamic system that it has. our one vagus nerve is like goes from the tip of our spine all the way down through our bodies, like this hugely elongated system that carries all these electronic systems and makes you jump. When you jump, it makes you I do it. does everything. The mind and the body connection. Lisa Danahy (08:39) Well, and what I love about the vagus nerve, and I'll try not to get too geeked out on this, but what I love about the vagus nerve is it's one of those two-way connectors. So it takes sensory input from the outside of us and brings it in and kind of organizes it to go into the brain. But then it also takes the brain and the brain's management and sends it back out into the body. So it's this Chris (08:45) He's Lisa Danahy (09:09) you know, experiencing on the inside, experiencing on the outside, and it's moving it all the time. And what I really appreciate in working with vagal tone is that part of it is being able to listen on the inside, to experience on the inside what's happening real time in your body, in your thoughts, in your feelings, kind of like a witness. And the vagus nerve is your communicator of the witness experience. from the inside and the outside. And that's what's telling you how to react. That's what's telling you what's going on. And your brain is trying to interpret that stuff. And that feeds into this notion of chronic stress and hypervigilance because the more it's sending messages of we're not safe, we're not okay, the more the brain goes, we're not safe, we're not okay, and interprets or misinterprets those signs on the inside and the outside that whether we're okay or Chris (10:08) Now I think I get what you mean by witness, but I want to make sure everybody listening kind of understands witness. What does witnessing mean? Because this is all about mindfulness. This is all about self-awareness and kind of being aware of what's going on is the way I interpret that. But how would you see witnessing yourself? Like that's kind of hard to do too. Lisa Danahy (10:28) an example for you. Have you ever had your belly kind of grumble and tighten up and your mouth start to salivate when you're hungry? So that's sort of like you're witnessing the process of hunger in your body. And what's happening is your body's giving these signals that it wants nourishment. And the vagus nerve is transporting those signals up to your brain. But how you interpret it is what is going to cause the result. Chris (10:37) yeah. Lisa Danahy (10:58) So that's the witness. Chris (11:00) I absolutely love that. I don't know, hopefully we get to our show notes in our process and as we go, but I have to go. That's perfect play off of an example I use all the time in my work therapy, because I remember very distinctly this, I'm gonna try to give it a short version, a really amazing parent moment when my son came in at like four or five years old from playing hard all afternoon and he was all grumpy and crabby. And he was literally, I mean, we all know that he was hangry, right? And you just use that as, as an example, but he didn't know how to witness himself. And I literally taught him in real time, like pay attention to your belly, pay attention to how you feel. And then why don't you try to eat? It was his favorite food spaghetti. And I was like, checked back in, like, how do you feel with that? And then he was fine. And he went off from like going off in a crabby old world. to calming himself down and actually taking an action and learning throughout that process. It was about a 15, 20 minute parent moment that I absolutely loved. Neil (12:02) Can I chime in on something like that? Lisa Danahy (12:02) think it's fabulous. Chris (12:04) Yeah, Neil came on. When he comes on, he's got something to throw down. Neil (12:07) So here's something my wife realized is that she's the opposite. Her anxiety causes her stomach to go into knots. Like when we were getting married, we'd go to do something and she'd get this really upset stomach and he'd be like, I don't know if we can go. Cause it's like, we didn't know. She just always had his upset stomach. Well, what we realized are actually she credits it to a Martin Short movie or show or whatever where he is the character. He never had an upset stomach because he had anxiety. So in this case, the anxiety led to an upset stomach, which then, now that she knows it, we notice that with our oldest son, his stomach would get upset before a wrestling match. Not because he was sick, it's because his emotions, his anxiety, caused the physical representation into his belly and those types of things. So it's witnessing the effect that your anxiety, your emotions are having on your body. Lisa Danahy (12:56) It's that two way communication. That's exactly what we're talking about. Your brain may be sending the messages to your body, like the anxiety causing the stomach ache, or your stomach may be sending the messages to the brain. I'm hungry, wake up brain. And that's that two way. So you're right. It goes both ways. And to be able to witness both ways is really challenging. And hypervigilance happens when we're chronically misreading one direction or the other. Chris (13:26) Right. Let me transition us into making this real. And I came across this. I want to talk about survival mode for a little bit, because I think this is where we kind of get into, like, what do we do, you know, in the chronic state? And I can't think of any better example than the chronic conditions people have social and emotionally than you find in substance abuse families. Have you worked with substance abuse families much, Lisa? Do you know much about that realm? Lisa Danahy (13:56) worked some with that realm, but I'm not an expert by far. Chris (14:01) Okay, I want to tell a story that I heard then at a conference that Claudia Black did. And that was an awesome conference that I went to early on in my career. Because she did a lot of groundbreaking work upon substance abuse family dynamics in the 80s. And she was open in saying that she came from a substance abuse family herself. And so think about who is in survivor mode with this little vignette, this little scenario she shared with the group. She said that she was sitting on her couch in her living room with her and her boyfriend and her younger sibling was there as well in a chair. And they're just like any other day sitting there watching TV, but they're in their parents' house. Now their parents had a business, a bar attached to the house, and that was a normal thing for them. And so it's all quiet, it's all chill, and then boom, a door slams open and there's this big burly guy standing there and he exclaims, hey, where's the bathroom at? And so Claudia looked at it and pointed and said, okay, well, the bathroom's right over there. And the guy went to bathroom and then he kind of went, boom, the door slammed again and he's gone. She resumes watching TV. But meanwhile, the boyfriend, Lisa, the boyfriend, right? Is like, Claude, Claudia, like, you know, he starts asking some questions and stuff. Now, which person is really in survival mode? Can you tell? Lisa Danahy (15:30) Well, I, well, you did. I mean, as you started the story, I was thinking and I was like, it's her. then in the very end, I thought it was him. Yeah. Yeah. Chris (15:31) Did I put you on the spot? Right. It's weird, right? It's really weird because there are, there are relationships that you develop to situations and it's really confusing because Lisa, you know, many people will numb out, they will shut down, they will not engage. get real deescalated in the situations. And you're right. I love the way you answered because it seems like the boyfriend is like surviving. You've got questions. Are we safe? Should we call the police? You know, should we lock the door? Should we do something? Lisa Danahy (16:06) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Chris (16:11) You know? Boom. Lisa Danahy (16:11) Yeah. But she was shut down. She was just like, go, Yeah. Yeah. That's what, yeah. Chris (16:16) She's in survival mode. She is used to her questions not being answered. She understands in a lickety split, man, door, bathroom, probably safe, watch him. Okay, he went to the bathroom, gone. Okay, we're fine. So all safe, all clear. Let's watch TV. Right? Now you would think that that is street smart and it is, but you know as well as I what's going on with poor Claudia Black, right? Lisa Danahy (16:43) Yeah, I think that's a great story. know, when we talk about survival mode, we're really talking about this ⁓ perpetual fear and lack of safety. And how can I conduct myself in a way that I can survive if I'm not feeling safe? And so we either shut down or we become, ⁓ you know, really defensive. and really ⁓ thinking everybody's out to get us or thinking nobody sees us. And so there's these extreme reactions. ⁓ And what it really boils down to is it is reactive, not proactive. It is a shutdown. It is I remove myself in whatever way I can or appease the beings around me so that I can feel like I can survive this, can make it through this. Chris (17:46) Yeah, and you know, I think the thing that I'd really like to have you understand, listener, you listening to the show, like, this chronicity you would think is simple, but you know, my newest favorite topic is what you and I and all of us are dealing with. We're dealing with the rapid pace of technological advance. It's not technology itself. We will adapt to that if we had time, but we, you, I, Lisa, we don't have time to adapt to all of that. And so in a substance abusing family like that, you have to understand the whole nature of drama and situations and no talk rules and all of the shutdown that happens from there. So much there, but we're all dealing with like chronicity of distress and anxiety and loneliness. Right? So, you know, create calm becomes even that much more important, by the way, they can find you at create calm.com or something. Did I say that? What is that? Lisa Danahy (18:33) Yeah. dot org, createcom.org, ⁓ dot org, dot org. But I have to, I love, I want to really tap into what you were saying here because ⁓ you were mentioning that, ⁓ you know, we get into this space of ⁓ kind of, we're dysregulated, right? We're trying to navigate these situations and Chris (18:45) .net.com.org. All right. There's a word. Lisa Danahy (19:10) What I think is really interesting is the evolution of humans. ⁓ Like you said, we can make it through the technology. ⁓ But what I think we're losing a connection with is movement because in the early days of stress, we moved because stress was mostly physical and we would move our bodies to alleviate the stress. And I think in a lot of these families, certainly that I've worked with that have these ⁓ you know, these safety issues, there isn't a lot of intentional movement, there isn't an opportunity to move the body and, and feel where you are so that you can actually get your breath moving in a different pace, get your heart beating, get the systems running in your body so that you can process the insecurity so that you can process ⁓ the dysregulation you can come back to regulate it. And I think that as we've evolved, we are so much more impacted by emotional stress. And we somehow think that emotional stress is relieved by being passive and disconnecting, but really it's relieved the same way as the physical stress by moving, by connecting and processing. Chris (20:31) Yeah. Here in the States, don't need the physical education anymore, do we? We'll take that out of our public school systems. Sorry for my sarcasm. No. Did I just such a nerve with the, the administrator in you of 30 years in schools? Yeah, that drives me nuts. Yeah. See, you know, this is, this is so impactful though, because we got to realize when this chronic reality of distress that we're talking Lisa Danahy (20:41) Don't need to move. Don't need to walk to school. Don't need to move in school. Nope. You know it. Chris (21:02) I want you to hear that it affects your day-to-day life. And we want to talk about what do we do about to get out of this hypervigilance and stress, but the regulation of your emotion, right? Your sleep. I mean, I hear, make America sleep again with medications and such. I mean, I'm not downing that, don't get me wrong, but goodness, our real day-to-day relationships. ⁓ Yes, ADHD is a... is a real diagnosis, our concentration levels are fragmented by all the things that we have attacking us all the time. And in our physical health, mean, you said the brain-body connection, these are, gosh, this is very real and it affects every man and woman, I believe, that are dealing with the type of things that we have in the world today, right? Lisa Danahy (21:55) Yeah, I think you're right. And I think this whole concept of rest ⁓ is really under appreciated in the way we're trying to treat our mental and physical health. is, ⁓ we talk a lot about what we need to do and very rarely do you hear folks say, we need to take a nap or we need to, after we have a stressful moment, we need to go, you know, lie still for a minute. And that's what the animals did. You know, after the animal, after the antelope was chased by the tiger, he went and sat in the grass. It was like, whoa. Chris (22:36) Yeah, you're right. You know, I am, I cannot make this up because I literally just had a conversation with my physical trainer when I didn't really want to work out on Monday. And I was telling him, Jake, dude, I think that we really ought to have some normal cultural change towards naps, dude. Like, and he agreed. I was like, thank you. Thank you for that. Lisa Danahy (22:58) Yeah, no, I think he's right and you're right. I mean, but I can't tell you how many times I've led a yoga class. And as the yoga class is ending, have relaxation. Sorry. There you go. Sorry. I teach these yoga classes and we do all of this work and then we go to lay down and half the people want to leave. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, this is the integration. This is where your muscles go. Chris (23:04) did we freeze? So you'll come back hopefully. There you go. You froze, you came back. You can't tell me what. Lisa Danahy (23:25) this is a memory we get that we got to figure out. This is where your digestion works. You know, this is where your systems come back online balance. So rest is the most important part. Chris (23:37) I am guilty as charged. When I'm done with my workout, man, I gotta go. It's the next thing, man. Are you kidding me? Next thing, next up. Things move fast, Lisa. Lisa Danahy (23:45) Okay, I want you to go lie down. No, I want you to lie down on the floor for two minutes after your next workout and see what happens. Report back. Chris (23:52) Yeah, that's wild. And report back. Report back with a splinter that I just felt in my hand. Boy, we are all over the place. And that is fine because these things are all over the place. Like these things that we're talking about and dealing with. Hypervigilance. Let's switch and talk about that a little bit. ⁓ This is one that I really struggled with as a younger clinician to kind of get. you know, a real clear understanding of what it is that happens when we become hypervigilant. I mean, I think of it in my therapy world as more of more of symptomology with trauma. know, PTSD is where I'm most familiar with how we become hypervigilant, ⁓ such that like a veteran of the ⁓ Iraq war might come back to the States and he's in downtown Charlotte with a big skyscraper and he sees a glint in the window out there, right? And he shocks and he jumps. He's scared. That's hypervigilant state. He just got thrown into immediately because he sees a sniper, right? Is what he experienced. Yeah. So, so, so that's trauma, but I wonder if we can layer that into like, how do people experience hypervigilant states like that in day to day life? Do know what I mean? Lisa Danahy (25:00) Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Chris (25:16) Because it doesn't have to be as dramatic as that. And I think we're really oftentimes in all kinds of little, call them mini hypervigilance, all throughout the day. Lisa Danahy (25:17) Yeah. Yes, because because we're risk averse. And we go on past experience. And so it's very easy to say, I had that before, it didn't feel good. So I'm going to react by, you know, my go to strategy, my go to coping mechanism of fighting, fleeing, freezing or fawning. And I'm going to go into that every time I have this happen. And then what happens is, we come across another one, it's almost a reinforcing. pattern where the more I'm, the more vigilant I am, the more vigilant I become. And what happens from a physiological standpoint is ⁓ the, every time I become reactive to a potential safety risk, my body reacts physically through what we call the HPA access, the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal access. And that's the stress response, the physiological stress response system. And that system takes a message from the center of the brain and goes, ⁓ shoot, we're in trouble. And from that it says, okay, activate the systems. And then the adrenals go, we've got the hormones, we're ready to fight. And the body goes into this alarmed state, right? And so everybody's ready. And the problem is when we keep on doing that ready, ready, ready, there's not a lot of capacity for resilience in the system because we stay up here, we stay up here, the hormones are here, the messaging is here. And it's only when we can come back from it and do what we call allostatic ⁓ load realignment that we can back off. calm the body down and then we practice going in and out of the stress response and we become more efficient at it. how quickly, know, Neil went mentioned his wife and her anxiety and it causes this knot in her stomach. That's the beginning of that HPA access firing, right? But if she's used to being able to through the nervous system, through the breath, She's used to it or moving her body. She's used to going, ⁓ I noticed that activation. I'm going to counter it and I'm going to get back to homeostasis. Then she's, she's building her resilience. And each time she's doing that, she's building more and more resilience so she can come back quicker and come out of that hypervigilance state quicker. So it's not to say that we'll ever stop going towards that hypervigilance because we're wired that. Chris (28:17) So a lot of times I need things dumbed down. That was where a lot of big words. That was really fancy and cool. And I think I tracked it. What I hear is I get worked up. I need to figure out how to calm the hell down. I get confident by calming down. And then I can get quicker at doing that. How's that sound? Is that it? Yeah. Lisa Danahy (28:36) Yes, and yes, because you've taken control of the physiological response associated with your fear of a lack of safety. And the more you practice that, and that's the whole thing in yoga, that's what you're doing, is on your yoga mat without the stress, you're practicing alleviating and rebalancing from the stress response, because you're doing physiological work. Chris (29:00) And the thing I want to combine too is that, again, you don't have to do this in high stress circumstances too. This is so common. And if you don't learn how to gain control, it just takes over autonomically, automatically. The process is so ready to occur at any given time, calmly driving down the street, you see the blue lights, boom, this whole system takes in. how quickly can you get back regulated or in an exciting way, I love sports, Lisa, right? In sports, if I have a bad play, they say in sports, well, you have to have short memory. Okay, well, what does that mean? Forget the play? No, it means calm yourself back down and literally get ready for the next pitch. Lisa Danahy (29:51) Yes, that's exactly what it is. And the more we practice that, the quicker our body returns to that steady space. And that is the base of resilience. Chris (30:07) And you know, the opposite's probably true too. It occurs to me as we're talking, that's the dark side, right? And I think a lot of people are living in the idea of, you know what, I can't control how my body feels. I can't control my feelings. You feel the way you feel. You hear these phrases, right? And if you learn, you know, pain and then get hit again and then get hit again and barely be able to regain sort of, ⁓ I'll say consciousness, but I mean like an emotional sense of yourself. as you were talking about witness earlier, if you don't have that, it, ⁓ man, it layers and layers and layers and you wonder how people get suicidal and numbed out and absolutely depressed and panicked, panic attack and all these other things, right? So the darker side, the darker side happens too. Lisa Danahy (30:54) Well, because, that's where we get back to that polyvagal theory. And this is around social emotional learning. Polyvagal theory says, okay, so when you're in that stress response and when you're chronically in that stress response, not only is it affecting you physiologically and affecting your decision-making, but it's also affecting your capacity to accurately perceive your social situations. And the idea is that ⁓ when the vagal tone is weak, when there is not resilience established, when we're in a chronic state of stress or hypervigilance, even when friendly safe individuals present in front of us. We don't have the capacity because we don't have any room in there for anything else. We don't have the capacity to accurately recognize that they're there to help us. they, you know, that smile is, you know, when I smile at you. you're relaxed, you're gonna see the smile. When I smile at you and you're hyper vigilant, you might see me as snarling and you know, like great showing my teeth and... Chris (32:20) Perception is power. again, let me dumb this down for myself. So what you're saying is I go to work. I work hard. I care. I want to do a good job. And I come home and oftentimes I have a difficult time relaxing. I am irritable. I don't sleep well. I sit there and I ponder and I think and I overanalyze. I assume that there's danger. because something else is going to happen with my kids or my dog when I get home and I'm reactive emotionally. Is that what you're talking about? Lisa Danahy (32:56) Yeah. Yes. And even though everyone at home might be totally fine and having a great day, when you walk in, you just know they're not. Chris (33:08) Something's coming Lisa, I'm telling you. I know something's coming my way. I left weeds in the garden last night now. Right? It's always something. But we say that it's always something. I hear these phrases and I listen to words and I think words are important. Because people will give a tell. And that's a phrase for instance, like there's always something or what's next or what do I need to be ready for or things. That tells you. Lisa Danahy (33:20) Yes. Chris (33:37) Because I don't think people are aware, sometimes you might be listening to the show thinking, alright yeah, I come home and I chill out Chris, I watch the penguins. Well I do too, and I hope they beat the devil rays tonight. Okay? But that doesn't mean you're like calm inside. Right? Lisa Danahy (33:52) Right, that's not rest. Sitting in front of a television is not rest. Chris (33:55) Well, well, all right. Here then. Lisa Danahy (33:58) I'm calling you out on it right here and now. No, is truly letting there be nothing going on around you. You might give your mind a tether to your... So your thoughts are more settled by letting your mind count your breath. But that's the most effort I want you to be exerting at a time when you're resting. I really want you to just chill. Chris (34:14) Mm-hmm. think people struggle with that so bad. I mean, really so bad. I don't think people do jigsaw puzzles or look at birds or you turn around and just look at those waves and stare at the waves. You know, for me, I love to look at fire. Yeah. You know, in wintertime, man, I put a fire on and I could just stare there for hours. Literally. It's just love that. But I don't think people have many of those slow paced, very quiet and Lisa Danahy (34:41) Well. Yeah. ⁓ Chris (35:05) engaging realities like a bird You know, I don't think people do that. Am I wrong? I it makes me sad condom Lisa Danahy (35:09) Mm-hmm. Well, I think we need to shift culturally as a society. We need to say that that's okay. It's okay to watch a bird. It's okay to sit and watch a fire. It's okay to lie on the floor and look at the ceiling. You know? Chris (35:31) Whoa. How long? Because I have to get grass cut and I got to get the kid to the baseball game. And if I don't tend to the dog, mean the dog and it goes on and on. Right. Lisa Danahy (35:45) And you know what? I put it on my calendar. because once you start, I put it on my calendar, I put rest. I literally have rest on my calendar. And in the middle of the day, now here's my thing because I have a very active mind. My mind is always wanting to tell me what to do and what's going on. So when I move, when I move and I'm breathing and making sounds and moving my body, my mind, Chris (35:56) Okay. Lisa Danahy (36:17) doesn't have as much space to tell me what's going on. So my thoughts quiet a little bit. And when I do all that, it shakes it all up. And then there's this momentary silence where the thoughts haven't jumped back in, where the feelings aren't huge, where the body's going, ⁓ I feel this. And then I just sit in that. That is the rest. I mean, I'm not talking sleep here. I'm talking just relax. And sometimes you got to move into it. And then you you have to have patience with yourself in practicing it. I was one of those people who got up at the end of yoga and said, this is ridiculous. Lay down here. But I realize now I mean, it's it's I do it every day, every single day. Chris (37:04) There you go. Lisa Danahy (37:14) And I find moments where I'll be in the grocery line and I'll just start counting my breath and let my mind quiet a little bit and let my shoulders relax. And sometimes that's enough of a rest. Sometimes I need to go lie on my floor and look at the ceiling. Chris (37:34) You know, it's funny, gave a, somewhere I figured this out as a young man somehow where in big events though, unfortunately it's only like kind of in big events when I was aware of this younger years, but I would always like at my wedding or at my son's baptism or, you know, a get together, holiday celebration, something, I would always want to just get quiet, find a corner and just, just. just allow that experience to kind of wash over me. And because I think I was thinking like it just happened so fast and I think that was my natural way of trying to slow something down so that I could really soak it in. But again, I think people struggle with that so bad. Lisa Danahy (38:19) Well, we call that present moment awareness. Chris (38:22) it has a name. Okay. Lisa Danahy (38:24) It has a name. And, you know, we're wired to live based on the past, fearful in the future, right? So we ruminate on the past, we fear the future. And so in between, we're toggling back and forth. And that's our stress response, right? We're going, okay, okay, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. But what you did was you slowed it all down. You let it all be there without attaching to it. You dropped into the witness space and became present moment aware. Chris (39:02) I think that's good, Lisa Danahy (39:04) It's fabulous. Chris (39:07) All right, let's move into this whole new name and which obviously, maybe not obvious to lot of people listening, but we're actually talking about SEL. And you do a lot with social and emotional learning, right? And I think this is a new thing that's on the scene in the way of mental health. I mean, we pick up new philosophies, new titles and names for things. I think honestly, we play off of a lot of the things that we had before, but that's cool. Social and emotional learning seems, kinda, for lack of a better word, neat. Are we talking about SEL? Or what is SEL? Lisa Danahy (39:47) Well, what is SEL? There's ⁓ an organization known as CASEL, C-A-S-E-L, and they are a nonprofit that is dedicated to helping people understand this notion of what SEL is, why it's important, and where it happens. Chris (39:48) Hmm. What is this thing? Lisa Danahy (40:16) And they have a lot of really awesome resources ⁓ that basically, if you think of social emotional learning as sort of a wheel, and within that wheel are these dynamics that are happening in communities, in families, in schools, in classrooms. And within each of those circles, we are practicing skills of self-awareness, of self-management. of responsible decision making, of relationship skills, and social awareness. And that is happening all the time in all of those circles. And it is through that, that we end up being able to feel fulfilled, being able to feel ⁓ engaged and connected, and we are wired to belong. So that is why social emotional learning has become so huge because it helps us to understand the mechanisms behind why we want so desperately to belong and connect with other beings and how we can go about it. Chris (41:30) So, yeah, let me kind of give a little scenario in a sense. Let's say that you're in a discussion with your husband or you're in a discussion with your wife and you begin to feel these different things that happen, right? Because regulation happens through the body before it happens through the mind. But however, we like to think that our mind and our reasoning and our logic is going to take care of it. So you'll hear people say like, wait a minute. You know what? I need to think about that. Or you know what, honey, I've been thinking about this and this is what I think and da da da da da. And then you get a defensive response and then you get a nice logical battle back and forth. And I'm like, wait, I see this in marital sessions, Lisa. It ain't regulating itself very well, right? Can our reasoning, our intelligence? mean, it helps in a lot of ways. Don't get me wrong. But when we rely exclusively on that, instead of some of the things that you're talking about, How can we regulate that into the real moment when my wife has given me crap because I didn't cut the grass yesterday, right? Lisa Danahy (42:37) think it comes back to the breath. I think it comes back to knowing you have control of you and you have control of your ability to respond or whatever decision you make in that exchange. And you decide. Chris (42:53) Yeah, like watching the penguins instead of cutting the grass. That got me in trouble. Lisa Danahy (42:58) Well, you know who's, you know what? That's called shame and blame. That's a whole other topic. That's another, that's another episode. That's another episode. Chris (43:02) ⁓ probably so. Probably so at least. But no, it's the breath. You you begin breathing rapidly. You take shallow breath. Your body literally automatically does this stuff when you're in distress, right? Lisa Danahy (43:12) you Yeah, yeah. So I had, ⁓ I have a little example. I had a child that I was working with who was getting very agitated and very upset. and I try not to put labels on what the feelings are because I have no idea. And it doesn't really matter. I look at the energy and this energy of the child was unbalanced. So, and I'm not saying you do this with your wife, but what I did was I just went and took their hands and I swung their hands up and as I was breathing out, I squatted down and moved their hands and we just went up and down and up and down and up and down and I just looked at them and you know, but what I was doing was helping them move their breath. I was helping them get the deep breath to regulate themselves. So we were co-regulating, but we were swinging and moving together and what it did was it brought us both to a place where then they could articulate what was you know, what their need was. Yeah. Yeah. Chris (44:27) Yeah, you know, it's, and no, you might not want to do that with your spouse, but you can do things with your spouse. Yeah, well, well, you know what they call it, dancing for a reason, you know, yeah, but you know, when you want to have a conversation, when you have to have a discussion, when something's going on, or you want to have a parenting moment with your child, I love to get on a trail, man. Some of the best conversations I had with my kids was when I was on a trail. Okay. Or in the neighborhood you're walking, right? You're, cause your body's moving. You're engaging. Lisa Danahy (44:32) I don't know, I think. Yeah. Yes. That's exactly it. Chris (44:56) you know, doing in addition to thinking and then conveying back and forth. Yeah, I could, yeah, I actually give those suggestions. Maybe not the whole up and down grabbing hand thing, but yeah. Lisa Danahy (45:08) Well, but the other thing what it does is it it it it it causes a disconnect it causes a disconnect in the thinking pattern and Chances are when you finish the movement There isn't even the same thought or the same issue or the same perspective and sometimes those things that could have been an altercation completely diffuse Chris (45:36) Diffused. Lisa Danahy (45:37) And it's, you know, it's like, ⁓ okay, I don't really care. Chris (45:41) I was so angry at you five minutes ago, what happened? Now I'm hugging you. I don't know. Lisa Danahy (45:47) Darn it! Darn it! I wanted to hold on to that anger! Chris (45:52) And you know what, we joke a little bit, but people kind of do because they're more familiar. They feel like it's actually safer because if I am on the offensive, then I'm going to get what I want. Lisa Danahy (46:04) Yes, that's exactly right. So let it go. Let it go. Chris (46:09) And there's a phrase. Lisa Danahy (46:12) Let it go. Chris (46:13) So, okay. How, okay. So let me transition this. Yeah, we're talking about movement. know what's coming. So a while ago we did a show, I forget what the topic was, but we want to demonstrate this a little bit. I don't think we have that much time. don't know how much time you need, but we wanted to demonstrate it a little bit with movement. So I guess you're going to direct me a little bit with one or two little movement things. I'm not going to have my microphone, I guess. So I'm just going to follow what you do. got my YouTube camera. How are we going to do this? Lisa Danahy (46:16) Do you to just? Chris (46:41) What's gonna happen? Lisa Danahy (46:42) You're going to be fine. You're just going to like roll your seat back just a little bit. So what I want to do is so basically, let me tell you first, we have decided in our conversation, if you want to insert here, so we've decided that energy is connected to the way we feel and energy is connected to our stress. So we either have huge energy or no energy, right? We're either kind of explosive or kind of withdrawn. And that's what we were talking about with the stress response. So what I wanna do is give you something to help raise your energy if you're feeling really low and something to diffuse the energy if it's really big. And then I'm gonna ask you what it feels like. All right, so standing up and you could do this sitting down too. So bring your feet a little wider than your hips. Bring your hands out, do a little space check. Make sure you're not gonna run into anything. All right, now put your hands on your shoulders. And I want you to imagine that you're a washing machine. So bend your knees a little bit so your legs are the base of your washing machine. And you're gonna turn to the left and breathe in and the right and breathe out. And you're just gonna twist like a washing machine. Now I want you to notice how this feels and maybe stuff is coming up in your washing machine, you're stirring it up and maybe now you're thinking, ⁓ here comes that thing. Here comes that my wife's little snarky comment. Here comes my kids, you know, missed homework assignment. Here comes the dinner I didn't get to have. Here comes I can't watch the penguins and it's coming up. And I want you to imagine flinging it off your shoulders and flinging it off your elbows. So fling it up, notice if you wanna go faster or slower. So you might have a lot of stuff in there. I call this get the muck out. And you may even wanna make a sound like a washing machine or some sort of motion that gets rid of it. All right, now slow it down. Chris (48:40) It is a painting by the way, Lisa Danahy (48:44) ⁓ you're right. I'm sorry. All right, slow it down. Now let your arms come by your sides. And then take a couple breaths here. When you breathe out, open your mouth and say, All right, now we're gonna go straight into the next thing. So take your feet and start to rumble them like you are lava. Under the bottom of a mountain, you are lava, you are big energy. Make your whole body rumble like lava. Now I want you to imagine a time or something that kind of annoyed you maybe. Chris (49:16) you Lisa Danahy (49:28) I know that doesn't happen to you very often, you like go under your skin and start to feel your body like that. Okay, you're this lava. Now I want you to reach down, scoop it all up, take a big breath in and go. Now let's do that again, make some lava. Rumble it really good, really, really, really, really, really good. Come on. Now reach down, scoop it up and go. All right, now take your arms out to your sides. Breathe in, reach your arms up. And breathe out, bring your hands right down the middle. Let's do one more time. Breathe in. Imagine you're filling yourself up like a balloon. And breathe out. One more like that. Breathe in. and breathe out. Put your hands on your heart, notice how you feel. Feel your breath. Feel your body. Come sit down and tell us. what that was like for you. Chris (50:43) Yay, I got my workout for the day No, I love that ⁓ is a matter of fact what I what I like the most is The breathing you know for me, you know, I I carry a lot of tension In my in my in my shoulders and in my chest And I can just always imagine mixing it up with the yucky stuff that's in there and then then blowing it out when when I'm done. And it just that that for me just takes everything and just blows it away. So similarly, I guess with your lava and the volcano throwing it up, you know, I'd have to get used to not being on camera and doing that. But I think that would feel sort of similar. So a physical movement like that where I'm throwing it off or pushing it off, you know, there's there's a lot. Well, yeah, I'll just I'll leave it at that. ⁓ Lisa Danahy (51:30) Yeah. Chris (51:39) I got more thoughts, but I'll let you lead that. That's the way it felt, Lisa Danahy (51:39) Yeah. No, that's the most important thing is you feeling it for you because the only way you're going to be able to use the tools for self-regulation is when they resonate with you and the way you do them. And I just wanted to point out that you're absolutely right. What we did was the movement helped to facilitate the flow of the breath. When you move like that, you have to breathe. And when you're making this big explosive breath or when I'm guiding you through the breath, Chris (51:59) Thank you. Lisa Danahy (52:13) you are intentionally shifting your breath so that in those moments of stress in the future, it becomes much more second nature. And that's the whole point of practicing. Chris (52:23) I'll also say Lisa, you when we were doing the turn piece, that was kind of cool. And for a little bit, I got into thinking about what's the big motivational speaker guy, the big famous dude makes millions or whatever. What was he doing? Tony Robinson. He does this activity, you know, where he's going, you know, and he's moving his arms and that's that movement. And I think another thing, the example I always like to use with this, I'm going to give you a quirky one, right? Lisa Danahy (52:37) Tony Robbins? No. Okay. Chris (52:52) So I at a conference again, I learned a lot at conferences, even though they drive me crazy, I learned a lot. ⁓ We were talking about sexual survivor, sexual victim survivorship, and part of the ways to kind of deal with movement with that. your body stores energy, right? And so they were instructed, their client, to just pay attention to any movement that you do. If you're doing pushups, if you're washing the dishes, if you're, you know, rinsing out a cloth or, you know, kicking covers off. Just pay attention and she to everything and come back and tell me what feels good for them. You just said their body, right? So they came back and said, I love kicking tires on my bus. Right. So the client came back. He's like, well, we had a snow day and I had to check my car and I was looking at the thing and I kicked the tires on the bus and I noticed what you were talking about. It really felt good. Lisa Danahy (53:38) Yes! Chris (53:50) So I went around and I kicked all the tires on the bus. And furthermore, they developed this as a strategy that every morning she would go around and kick the tires on all of her buses and it felt wonderful release for her. Lisa Danahy (53:50) Yes. Yes, I love it. So when I ran my school, I know we're running long on time, but when I ran my school, I kept a box of bricks in my office. And when, when there were dysregulated kids, their teachers could put on a sticky the number of minutes they wanted the kids to stay with me so that they could reset for themselves. The kids would come to my office and I would have those kids, I would say, ⁓ I need that box moved down the hallway to the kitchen. Chris (54:11) Okay Lisa Danahy (54:30) and these kids would push the box all the way down the hallway to the kitchen. And then I'd go, no, no, no, no, wait, nevermind. I want it back in my office. And I would have them go back and forth and they would do it every day. But it was heavy work. Chris (54:42) ⁓ You got confused all the time, didn't you? I wanted it there. I wanted it over there. No, I wanted it up here. I love that. Lisa Danahy (54:50) But it was heavy work. It's the heavy work, the kicking the tires, the you know, whatever that movement is that volcano is letting you be fully in your body and it feel good. Yes. And what happens to your thoughts when you're doing that there's not as much room for your thoughts. Chris (55:02) And it's fun. Really, it's fun. was thinking about Tony Robbins and I just told you when I first started, it popped in my mind, but then you're right. It was gone. I can't do that and keep that thought process. Instead, my body's then moving and I feel better. Right? Lisa Danahy (55:27) Yeah, and then when you do stop, the world looks a little different and you can choose different. Chris (55:32) Yeah. And that's when I like the breath because you take the breath in and then you can control the way you feel and it brings your heart rate back down. mean that for me, the breathing is a, is a lot, you know? Yeah. Lisa Danahy (55:41) Yeah, well, the breath is our easiest access to the nervous system. And that's our easiest access to feeling in control of our experiences. Chris (55:52) That's interesting. Let me push back at that. trust you on that and I like it probably better than most. what about, instantly when you said that, what about smell occurred to me? mean, smell. Like aromas and aroma, there are such things, aromatherapy and stuff, is breathing the quickest or is, I would imagine that's gotta be pretty quick too. Lisa Danahy (56:02) What about? So what you're talking about is sensory activation. so what yeah, and so you're talking about, can activate the senses so that I can then become connected to the nervous system. But the breath is the quickest way to shift. The smell will activate, activate a memory or a thought or engage the senses to engage the nervous system, the vagus nerve. Chris (56:37) Hmm. Lisa Danahy (56:43) and I could be wrong about this, but this is just my gut speaking here. Haha, the vagus nerve, my gut brain. But I think breath is the quickest tool we have to shift because smelling is a one way, ⁓ I'm getting that sensing, but breath is, I know my breath is here. I can use my breath to change my experience instantly. Chris (57:12) Okay. No, I appreciate that. That's that that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I'm glad we stumbled on that. Yeah, we have a little bit more time. We're okay. But I want to do a segment here real quick. And I can I can challenge you if you want to participate. I'm putting Lisa completely on the spot with this. ⁓ What we had started to do, I like this segment where we have practical questions and I ask the audience like listening to the show. Lisa Danahy (57:18) Yeah. Chris (57:37) So you can ask the audience, if you want any kind of question. I don't think I prepared you for this, you know, like what we've been talking about today to have them think about what it is that they might take with them. you know, what, well, I think you get the idea, because I think you do it naturally. I'll go first with this by saying practical question. when was the last time, you know, we feel so keyed up, you listening to the show, right? You probably feel so keyed up throughout the day. Even on a calm day, you get worked up and then you get stressed out and then you get busy and you want to do a good job and then you want to relax. And if I added the word truly, right, my question I really want you to think about is when is the last time, maybe even sleeping, but that's not really truly feeling relaxed. When's the last time that you truly felt just a state of calm, a state of peace? Remember, no internal conflict is the way we defined that on the show not too long ago. So when was the last time that you truly felt relaxed in all of your body? Right? So that's my question, the practical question for you to think about listening and through the next week. Do you have one you want to try, Lisa? And put you on the spotter. Okay, there you go. See, she's willing to play. What do you got? Lisa Danahy (59:04) Sure. I'm willing to play. So my question is, what brings you joy? What do you do that gives you that feeling of wholeness, of happiness, of fulfillment and connection? and do more of it. Chris (59:33) That's awesome. Yeah, that's good stuff. ⁓ Yeah, so let's take us out of here a little bit by, you know, talking about, we've been talking about all this, but let's bring it full circle ⁓ to where we began maybe with survival mode. And in a sense, I found that to be, you know, in substance abusing families. And then we talked about how that. that really can relate to what I believe is humanity's greatest challenge in all of the history of humanity and that being the rapid pace of technological change, not technology itself. So, so, so we all experienced that so much, but how and what do we do the path that's ways to move out of that survival mode? You know, it's, it's a heck of a thing when you're Claudia Black sitting there, absolutely turning everything off and just going right back to what you're doing. Let's not be confused about that being a calm and regulated state. That's a numbed out state. That's a state where you've just assessed, I got the street smarts in me, I dealt with the situation, and now I'm just kind of moving on. The police officer, man or women, that just went through a hard shift or a hard call, and now I'm back and I'm sipping my coffee and eating a donut like the stereotypes tell us they do. or the football player who just got wrecked on the field and is struggling now with his, my career ending and I have a concussion, wait, I didn't get a concussion, I'm fine, can I go back in the game coach? Like these real moments, these real shifts, how can we get out of survivor modes? Lisa Danahy (1:01:18) I think the first is to recognize we don't want to oppress our emotions and our feelings. We don't want to explode our emotions and our feelings. We want to notice them. We want to notice them in the context of what's happening in the physical body because we know when we can notice them in the physical body, we can engage the movement, we can engage the breath. we can bring ourselves back to centered. And the key is to practice this outside of the stressful moments. The key is to have a regular routine of, yeah. Chris (1:01:56) Wait, can you say that again? Outside of the stressful, what does that mean? That's huge, I think. People can grab that, you know? Lisa Danahy (1:02:03) It is. It is exactly, I just got chills because this is the key to all of it. If I want any chance at regulating myself and getting out of the survival mode, I've got to practice the strategies when I'm not in survival mode. So I have got to be out there, you know, in nature. with family doing things that are going to give me a calm space to practice getting uncalled to practice the intensity so that when the real Stress happens. It feels like I can access the tools because I'm practicing them outside of that stressful time Chris (1:02:56) You know, my son is ⁓ serving us in the Navy. Very proud of Adam over there in Yasoka, Japan on base. And it makes me think of boot camp, right? Like we pound these young men and women into situations when it's not war time, there's no bullets flying, there's no things going on, right? But we create these scenarios almost, and that's training. But. Lisa Danahy (1:03:08) Yeah. Yeah. Chris (1:03:23) I love what we're trying to get at is understanding. need to practice how I'm doing this when the, when the game's not on, we literally have practice and we create game situations in a soccer match so that we can then when the match is actually going on, execute the play, right? Like I just, I'm really excited and thinking it's really important here at the end that we highlight this, get used to doing it before you really need to do it. Lisa Danahy (1:03:49) Right, right. And think about it. We have we have been trained. We are we had boot camp of childhood. We spent many, years of a boot camp of childhood to condition us to be who we are today. It's going to take some hard, dedicated training to undo some of that and to learn some new strategies, to learn some new ways to cope, to manage, to engage and to feel okay. Chris (1:03:58) boy. And I like to highlight a lot of times, Lisa, on the show in one way or another, it just kind of falls into this segment where we're looking at like, what do we do? I don't do this alone. You know, why do we feel like we've got to always be, you know, safe and private and alone with the things that we're trying to manage? it's so much of a cave, you know, it's so much of a struggle. Lisa Danahy (1:04:33) Right. Well, I think that's why, um, why people go to yoga classes. Um, you know, yeah, because they come to that group, you know, they come to that group experience where, you know, you're on your own yoga mat, you're on your own space, you can do your own thing, but there's an energetic, um, belonging that happens. So you can work through your shit in the presence of other people working through their shit and you're practicing in a, a, a non Chris (1:04:55) Funny you say that. Lisa Danahy (1:05:20) stress non-reaction inducing space. Chris (1:05:23) Yeah, and I'll tell you, I'll be really honest. I'm new. think I told you last year, I tried to start getting into some of the yoga things that's out in the morning. I'm kind of losing that sadly. I got to get back into it because it was a good routine, but I'm not, I'm not comfortable going to a yoga class. Can I say that out loud? Like, I don't want to do that. Like that's scary, man. That's uncomfortable. Lisa Danahy (1:05:40) Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Okay, so if it's not a yoga class, if it's not a yoga class, it's taking the family and walking through the park. Go out on a nature hike. Go on a nature hike and be side by side and set a timer for five minutes. Silently walk side by side in nature and you will feel an energetic belonging and connection while each of you has your own individual experiences. Chris (1:05:50) Right. Lisa Danahy (1:06:08) and practices your breathing and movement. Chris (1:06:11) And that was what I wanted to get at Lisa, right? Because if you're not comfortable with something, you can grow into that. Okay. But you don't have to force it either. I mean, how about a fishing afternoon? Right? You talk about, you know, imagining the tension in your body and casting a, a, a, a wire, a line, you know, and pulling, you know, fly fishing. That's like a whole moving thing. Right? So there's lots of ways. ⁓ Lisa Danahy (1:06:20) Yeah. Absolutely. My dad was a fly fisherman and he would spend six hours out there standing in that water and it had nothing to do with catching a fish. Nothing. That was his phase. That was his yoga mat. Chris (1:06:41) Whippin' it, Right. Right. You know, firearms, a lot of people get into firearms, you know, I mean, that's a, that's a stretching position. I mean, there's get out and do is, is I think the point, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of ways to get at the way the body works and the way that your mind works with your body. So yeah, I think that's, ⁓ that's pretty cool. Okay. We do kind of got to wind in a little bit. Lisa Danahy (1:06:55) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Chris (1:07:17) ⁓ I really appreciate you hanging out with us. How do we summarize anything that we missed? That's something that else that you think is really important? Something that we can kind of maybe add on? Anything that kind of comes to your mind and kind of conclusing? Conclusing? Conclusing is a word, you know. Lisa Danahy (1:07:17) All right. I think in conclusion, I would say that's concluding and closure, closing and concluding. I think I would say resist the urge to judge yourself, resist the urge to say you can't or you'll never or you're not enough to do any of this. ⁓ Give yourself ⁓ permission to be in Chris (1:07:40) Right. Lisa Danahy (1:08:02) to be messy and just Feel your breath in, feel your breath out. Make sounds, sounds are the easiest way to find your breath. Sing, dance, it doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be a sense curriculum or protocol. Sing and dance and move and breathe and connect with nature, connect with yourself and don't ever say what you're doing isn't enough. Chris (1:08:17) Mm-hmm. Lisa Dennehay, how do they find you at createcom.org? I nailed it. Fantastic. Listen, I appreciate you guys hanging out with us here at Through Therapist Eyes. Tell a friend, tell somebody about a specific episode or something that they will really grab from you, not just finding us organically. Help them out. Help yourself out. Help us help people to get the word out about mental health and substance abuse. Lisa, I really appreciate you hanging out with us, coming back. Lisa Danahy (1:08:40) You got it. Nailed it! Chris (1:09:04) and helping us kind of move and get out of our heads and into our bodies. All right. The YouTube will show that she did a little hard thing that everyone does with the whole fingers. It's so cool. Listen, take care, stay well, and we'll see you next week. Lisa Danahy (1:09:09) Thank you. Take care.