With coaching becoming a multi-billion-dollar industry, Chris talks with our resident coach Craig to look at the difference between therapy and coaching. They go through the process of working with a therapist and working with a coach to give a baseline to start. They look at the requirements that it takes to become each and then they breakdown how they work with their clients. With that, the guys give some guidance to which might be right for you.
Tune in to See Therapy vs. Coaching Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Starting the show, they go over the difference in how start in both areas – licensing vs certifications.
- What is Coaching?
- What is Therapy?
- It is a powerful thing to be and heard. This is a benefit of a therapy session.
- Chris goes through the spiel that he uses when a new client starts.
- What are the similarities and what are the difference between the two?
- This is a good article that is written by someone who is both a therapist and a coach.
- The goals are different because of how each practice works and what they try to achieve.
- It is important to know what you trying to do to know whether you need a coach or a therapist.
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Episode #184 Transcription
[00:00:00] Chris Gazdik: Welcome to another edition of Through aTherapist’s Eyes where we talk about therapy, but we’re also talking about coaching. So I’m kind of excited to having Mr. Craig grave be in the coast again, back with us. He is an unbeatable mind life coach got a certification. And so we’re going to talk about therapy today.
What is therapy and what is coaching? So it’s kind of cool. You get a little bit taste of both worlds because it’s become a, you just said be on our, on our, take one of the show tonight. Multi-billion dollar industry, right? Like that’s yeah. Yeah. It
Craig Graves: seems like the last I heard a number, it was like three, so $3 billion.
Still a lot of money though, right?
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. I mean, it’s, it’s become wildly known. You can get coaching and I think there’s, there’s huge confusion about what’s the difference between, you know, the two, you know, mental health counseling and all that, and then coaching aren’t they the same. And I’m going to tell you, you would agree.
I think I know because we’ve spoken about it that no, they’re, they’re not there. There are definitely some differences. [00:01:00] So welcome to through a therapist, eyes where you get personal insights directly from a therapist in your own home or personal time in your car, you get to see the world through the lens of a therapist, but be aware is not to delivery of therapy services actually in any way.
So give us a five-star reviews. Thank you so much for listening to the show. We enjoy doing it for you and with you. So apple iTunes allows you to make comments that really helps us out a lot. Believe it or not. On Facebook. We’re on Instagram, LinkedIn, remember all that social media stuff. We did.
Mr. Graves. I remember if we still do it,
we still do it. So this is the human emotional experience. And we endeavor to figure this thing out together. So, Craig, how did they find you? What are you doing these days? You are a coach. So how do they get to you? What all are you doing? My
Craig Graves: website is wininyourmind.com.
You can find me there and it’s got links to everything else. Obviously social media, I’ve got a little YouTube channel, stuff like that. Yep. [00:02:00]
Chris Gazdik: And I like to point out that you could do that worldwide. Absolutely. Right? Yep. It’s a different than therapy. We’ll start off there. I guess, therapy world. If you’re not in North Carolina, I’m only licensed to practice in North Carolina.
I can not do therapy with you in coaching. There is no licensing body as we’ll probably talk about. But you could literally coach people all around the world is pretty neat.
Craig Graves: Yeah. Well, I would say that probably is a licensing body. I think the what is it? The ICF has some standards and, and those kinds of things, but you don’t have to be licensed to put up a sign on your door and say, Hey, I’m a life coach.
You know, you could just, you could start tomorrow, Neil, you could start tomorrow if you want it to. Yeah. Right. You know, I think you told me that one time you said, why don’t you coach? And I’m like, well, you know, I’m kind of, you know, me, man, I’m going to certification kind of dude. Oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s one of the things with, well, I guess we’ll talk about is the differences in the.
Licensing procedures or lack thereof. [00:03:00]
Chris Gazdik: I actually didn’t know. Are you sure that there is a licensing body? I think there’s a body.
Craig Graves: I’m not sure if it’s a licensing body, look it up, look up the international coaching Federation or something like
Chris Gazdik: that and see if that is yeah. Cause I, I have the impression that there isn’t a formal license.
There’s lots of programs that you can get that are certifications, which is a very different thing than Eagle
Craig Graves: licensure,
Chris Gazdik: because we’re really to have a license your body. What you’d have to have is a legal licensing body that orchestrates a legal. Orientation, either as a nation or as in the states, as a state.
And if you’re going to international lines for a licensing body, then as a world
Craig Graves: authority,
Neil, what’d you find what’d you got for us buddy there,
Neil Robinson: it looks like it’s just another certification. So the international coach, coach Federation, there’s another certification path for that one too. Okay. So my guess, is that something along the same lines where, you know, they have there’s my.
Broad with life coach where like our unbeatable minds is very [00:04:00] specific to like mark divine and his, his philosophies and what he sees that works. But yeah, I didn’t say anything about a regulating body, like your therapist and stuff like that. And that’s a very important
Chris Gazdik: difference that I’ll point out. I think it was going to come up with let’s stay here for a minute too, to really draw a big distinction with that.
A license is very different than a certification. A certification means that you go through a process to kind of learn the program and, and the philosophies of who created this. We could do a through a therapist eyes coaching program and certify coaches to be a, through a therapist, eyes coach. And that’s very different.
Then doing a license, a licensing process has a legally binding reality that you cannot deliver this particular service in this particular area unless you’re licensed, right. And the board monitors, anyone who’s licensed. And the fact of the matter [00:05:00] is licensing boards are not for the clinicians they’re really guided and their, their purpose is to protect the public.
Right. Yeah. From therapists that don’t do good things and they have all kinds of complaints and real problems with therapists that they work with us on when we get, you know, dinged. I mean, you never want to get that call from the licensing board, right? Yeah.
Yeah. I’m sure that’s a bad day, but we have ethics that we have to follow.
We have laws that we have to follow and if we don’t follow them, because we have to be licensed in order to do therapy, you can lose your license. Therefore you can’t practice like a doctor, a medical doctor. Right,
Craig Graves: right, right. I think maybe in our world, it’s a little bit different and I know it is from like, so for example, the unbeatable mind coaching.
That I went through was a certification process. That was, I think at 16 different modules that were delivered online. And then we had to submit videos to the staff at [00:06:00] unbeatable of ourselves, coaching somebody, a person they had to, they had to consent to that. And then we had to do two volunteer clients where eight for eight sessions each and S and submit that to the, to the organization.
And then we add an exit interview. So once we met with the, with the master coaches, if you will, they’re at unbeatable we were certified coaches and then the licensing, you paid a fee to unbeatable to be able to use their logos and some of their marketing materials and stuff like that. So I think that sounds a little bit different than what you’re describing as far as licensing, at least.
From the, from the unbeatable organization, it’s
Chris Gazdik: very different. It’s very different. The license that you are mentioned, there is just you know, they want a patent for the logo and this type of thing licensing you to
Craig Graves: use
Chris Gazdik: are very different than professional licensure. Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. So we’ll, we’ll go further with that.
I think in comparing the, the training a little bit later on but I will say this as a little bit of [00:07:00] a plug, really, frankly, not because I’m plugging you or I know you, but because I, I I’ve, I’ve seen some of the coaching stuff that’s around there. The unbeatable mind program is pretty robust. I don’t know if you’ve compared Craig a lot to other programs and stuff.
Probably. Yeah. I’m sure you did when you were looking to do this or something else or whatever. Yeah. That’s robust. Yeah. That is a robust coach.
Craig Graves: It definitely is. If anybody listening is interested in becoming a coach, then definitely look into unbeatable. I mean the content is delivered online. I think there were 16 different modules.
They host a monthly webinar where they have content that, you know, Martin Devine they’re retired commander, Navy seal, Martin divine. Some of the other coaches that are high level coaches, Dr. Laura Pence was one of those people at one point. I’m not sure if she’s still there or not, but There’s some pretty some pretty interesting people that are on those webinars and those are designed to help people become better coaches there’s topics.
There are coaching sessions, [00:08:00] mock coaching sessions. So Chris, I may have, I may coach you on one of those calls, for example, you know, in the, and then the coaches would provide feedback. And so it’s, it’s a great program. There’s a once a month, they have a office hours call. So like if you’re dealing with a client and then, you know, Hey, I’ve got this client, his name is Chris.
And you know, he’s given me a hard time and you know, he won’t do what I tell him to do. Stuff like that. He’s non-compliant
Chris Gazdik: Mr. Gazdak.
Craig Graves: We’ll see. It’s a great, it’s a great program. And, you know, you do pay tuition to, to go through it. But once you’re in you’re, you know, you can go to those webinars. I don’t think there’s any restrictions on the amount of time that you can go to those webinars.
And they’re all posted online afterwards. Of course it’s a secure site, but it’s, it’s a great program. It
Chris Gazdik: really is. Yeah. And, and we’ll talk more about some of the training. I think again, let’s camp out here just a minute. Just another moment before we launch into what is coaching and what is therapy just in kind of comparison.
I mean, that is a robust program, but the thing is, what you’ve got to realize [00:09:00] is with, in order to be licensed, I mean, dude, it, when you think of like social workers or, or, you know, new counselors, what they’re paid, frankly, and, and, you know, in DSS programs and various places where your social working. The pay is not great.
You do not get in is to get rich working with people. That’s for sure. But listen to what we have to do. Four years of college training, all of that, that you just mentioned. And then you, you, you go to two years graduate program and then you spend literally two years in what you would think of as a, as an understudy or an apprentice, you know, like in other industries, we spent two years under supervision doing full case loads and meeting weekly with a seasoned therapist that that’s, again, licensed to be in many disciplines, a supervisor.
And then finally, what does that? 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. You’re almost a decade in, yeah, [00:10:00] right before you can, you can practice independently as a licensed clinical social worker. Now that is for social work, right? Psychology has their process counseling programs have their process. So when you, when you think of it’s a robust coaching program, I mean, that’s just gives you a little bit of an insight, you know, in like, wow.
You know, we do a lot to get to the point of independent, you know, it’s
Craig Graves: funny that you’re, it’s, it’s, it’s maybe it’s ironic. I don’t know the right words, but you know, therapists put in how much money do you have invested in education?
Chris Gazdik: Oh, it’s I mean, look at the college part clause. Now it’s 108,
Craig Graves: a hundred thousand dollars.
That’s insane. Right? So there are people out there who have zero training as coaches making a million dollars a year. Yup.
Chris Gazdik: It is crazy. It is crazy. And.
Craig Graves: Yeah. And you know, and I’m not knocking on therapists or social workers or anything, but they don’t make a lot of money. Am I, am [00:11:00] I right? training and they’re crushing it.
Chris Gazdik: And I would wonder what the breakdown is, how many people that is, because I think there’s a lot of people that, I mean, I’m sure there’s center coaches and they’re not
Craig Graves: 99% of the coaches aren’t making anything. Probably I went there ourselves
Chris Gazdik: high 90 might not be too high, but there are a lot
Craig Graves: out there who are really crushing it as coaches making lots and lots
Chris Gazdik: of money.
Yeah. Which is it is crazy. So let’s, let’s go into a segment here and spend some time Craig, and maybe try to tell us, like, what is coaching, right? What is
Craig Graves: man? What is coaching you? Like you said, it’s broad and there can be different kinds of coaches, life coaches. So one unbeatable mind for example, is really a mindset based coaching program, I would say.
But a lot of the things that are in there. You know, it would be standard with any life coach, you know, what is your, what is your purpose? For example, you know, there’s an exercise called the obituary where you write down what your [00:12:00] obituary would be when you die, what you wanted to be when you die. And then you say, am I living up to these standards now?
And I’ve seen that in multiple programs, you know, so there’s, there’s, there’s that component, but there’s like you said earlier, there’s also all kinds of different counselors, grief counselors. There’s sorry coaches, right? Yeah, yeah. Coaches, you know, and I’m sure that there’s group counselors, right?
Chris Gazdik: Well, yes and no. I mean, there’s counselors therapists and we say, we specialize in working with adolescents or we specialize in substance abuse or we specialize in grief counseling, you know, so, but, but there, and you can get certifications, which is different than a licensure. You can get certifications in something to say that you’re a specialist, but.
I’m trying to draw a little bit of a distinction. It’s almost like when you, when you have a therapist saying that they’re they’re specialists or they specialize in X topic, what they’re really saying is they enjoy that particular topic. They spent time on that topic. They’ve [00:13:00] kinda, you know, researched a little bit more, that area of therapy and whatnot, and they may have gone so far to meet some, some continuing education requirements to get a certification that’s almost sort of in line with what you described just a little bit.
Craig Graves: Yeah. There’s probably a lot more types of coaches probably than therapists. I might, I might say financial coaches, nutrition, coaches physical training, coaches, divorce coaches. I mean, you could have a marriage coach, right? I know some people who went through some marriage coaching, right? Not really marriage therapy, but marriage coaching.
So there’s really all kinds of different coaches out there doing, doing different things. Really the goal, the coaches to help you move forward. If you’re stuck, you know, if I’m having trouble losing weight or I’m having trouble saving money or budgeting my money, or, and I’m just drawing from those examples that we, we talked about earlier, if I feel stuck in my career and I want to move on there’s career coaches, you know, I’ve done some career coaching with, with people in the past and some financial coaching to, you know, through the Dave [00:14:00] Ramsey program and those kinds of things.
So when I think about the definition of coaching versus therapy and you and I have talked about this before and you’ve disagreed, and I’m sure you probably will now, but the way I see therapy is you’re dealing with the past. Maybe, you know, my father beat me when I was a kid or I got my, I was molested or you know, my wife cheated on me and I’m having trouble getting past that, you know, those might be deep, emotional.
Things that you really needed somebody to dig into with you. And that’s not really what a coach would do.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, no, I don’t disagree with that at
Craig Graves: all. And there’s kind of a fine line. So if I’m working with the person who I think may have, may need to go deeper, then I’ll say, Hey man, that’s kind of out of my relm.
I got a good friend named Chris Gazdak here’s his business card, right? You
Chris Gazdik: there’s an article as I popped on this and it’s in the show notes and I thought it was interesting. She, to that point, she’s actually one of these people you taught [00:15:00] me more than anything a couple, few years ago, you know, there’s a lot of people that are therapists and coaches.
Yeah. Right. And she’s one of those variety. And was she kind of, she, she kind of layered it out. It was really cool the way she put it. She’s like basically that one of the big differences. And we’ll talk about this in a segment in a little while what the differences are, but one of the primary differences she landed on is that coaching kind of assumes you’re generally well, right, right.
You’re you’re well, you, you don’t have a diagnosable condition or things aren’t stuck in your life experiences with trauma or any number of substance abuse issues. Although you may have substance abuse coach, you know, there’s there’s blocks and gaps and, you know, missing pieces or disorders or, you know, reality’s there for you.
Coaching just assumes that’s not there. Right. That, that was why I thought I liked the way
she put that.
Craig Graves: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Chris, I’ve had, I’ve worked with people. In a coaching kind of environment who were also seeing a therapist about [00:16:00] other things that they were working on on, on that side.
Right. So, you know, I’m not here to dig really deep into the emotional issues of the past or past traumas and stuff like that. I’m here to help you set some goals, figuring out how you can get there and hold you accountable to do so.
Chris Gazdik: I think one of the coolest coaches, I don’t know if she called herself a coach.
You remember that a big spin where minimalism became, you know, a very promising thing is still a big. I don’t know if she calls herself a coach, but you know, she would come in and basically help you to throw stuff away.
It was that a reality show or something? I don’t know. I don’t know.
Craig Graves: I don’t remember a lady, but there’s a couple of guys.
They have a net, there’s a Netflix documentary guys wrote a book called minimalism or something like
Chris Gazdik: that. Yeah. And they, it basically
come in and help you throw stuff away. That’s a minimization. So don’t hate mail me, but you know, it, it, I don’t like to say, I don’t even know if she calls herself coach a witness, so, well, let’s move to what is therapy okay.
In, [00:17:00] in, in sort of contrast or, or what have you. So I kinda came up with the definition. In my own words, I looked at it as a dynamic relationship developed between two people with an artificial protection in an artificial environment that allows people to experiment with new emotional patterns. That’s just what came to me.
That’s not a formal definition, but I think that catches the flavor of a lot of what we do by artificial. Environment and artificial protection. What I mean? Well, actually there’s not actually some real protections. Like I am not allowed to tell anybody else I am held by ethical boundaries. I’ve mentioned we spent some time with the licensing.
Like that’s a, that’s a big deal, but by artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence environment, what I mean is, you know, in this room right here, we’re sitting in my therapy office, by the way, I’m paying the cameras around, right. This is a real therapy room, but it’s kind of artificial in
that. What we talk [00:18:00] about in here, how we talk, you know, the examination that, that we look at and look.
Through or your experiences and whatnot is not like you can have really like, literally, I think in any other venue, it’s a, it’s a, one of a kind unique sort of protected space that becomes safe to be able to talk about really difficult things that people don’t talk about. So that’s what I mean by artificial.
And the relationship that’s developed probably is very similar actually with, with coaching, but it’s dynamic. I mean, it’s, well-researched and steeped in psychological study in what happens, you know, lots of things like countertransference and transference and, you know, the boundaries of the clinical Alliance that you develop.
And, you know, there’s, it’s, it’s robust, it’s dynamic. There’s a lot going on when, when you’re doing a different way of talking to people. I like to highlight what I try to help [00:19:00] when I’m supervising younger clinician. What I try to help them understand with this, the dynamic nature of this like younger clinicians, particularly when they receive a check for the first time, right there, they literally take a check for, you know, a hundred dollars or $50 or whatever it might be for your copay or your fee.
And it it’s, it’s kind of freaky. You’re like, wow, like what did I do for this? Like, you know, did I have a conversation, right car? Right. I had that conversation and they, but they, what they fail to realize even as young clinicians, right, is this is a different changed perspective where a hundred percent of the time I am really focused on what you’re talking about, what you’re doing, what, what you’re experiencing.
And that may be for an extended period of time. Like an hour’s a long time to do that in a normal conversation, in a really good relationship. You may get five minutes. But in a normal [00:20:00] conversation, what’s happening is I’m sitting here waiting for you to stop talking and thinking about what I’m going to say next, regardless of what you say, I say it next, right?
In a therapy experience, this is the first time a person has ever experienced that in their entire life. Like how valuable is that? How
Craig Graves: dynamic is that active, active listening? You cannot replicate what we would call that in the, in the unbeatable program. Well,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, active listing, but in at least in therapy that goes even further.
So far as active interpretation matching up psychological dynamics that you may be operating on and don’t know it looking at hidden. You know, thoughts that you don’t even realize are driving. We talked about implicit bias on the show as a really deep involved example. Yes.
Craig Graves: Yeah. You know, I don’t know about all that psycho mumbo jumbo you’re talking, but seriously though, you can learn a lot by just watch or you can gather a lot of information by watching somebodies reaction to, and I’m [00:21:00] assuming that’s what you’re saying.
So if you asked me a question and I look off, you know, and maybe I’m that that’s a clue maybe to do something that’s going on there. So, so yeah, I mean, that’s, some of the things we look for in a, in a coaching session would be that same body language tone of voice may change.
Right? We are developing a coaching chance.
The person may tense up, you know, and, and you’re looking for those, those cues too. And that’s why the zooms and on and on the phones aren’t as effective because you pick up on those things therapy. But you know, I think your, your, your point there, I remember one time before I got into unbeatable you were craig you should be a coach, man.
You know, you’re, you’re pretty, pretty sharp at stuff like this. And you know, sometimes my brain is more logical. I need to process, right. What is my process? Yeah. And I, and I, and I go between that and creativity, I think I hit both things. So I have processes and coaching, but my creativity shows shows there too, while I’m going through the [00:22:00] process, if you will.
So I said, well, I’d love to be a coach, but I don’t have a process. And you told me that people would pay me money. Just to sit and listen to what they’re saying.
Chris Gazdik: I, I remember that now.
Craig Graves: And I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Now people just want to be heard and you’re right. Most people are just waiting for you to shut up so they can start piping up their big mouths, you know?
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. When you’re talking in real life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s a powerful thing to be heard. Yeah. Yeah. And also a powerful thing to be seen. And what I mean by that is not just, I see you, but two boys, so vulnerable though. I mean, you did therapy thing is intimidating and I’m going to give you a normal spiel that I give here in a moment that, that talks to that.
But to, to be seen is to like, here’s my emotional, you know, kind of stuff. I don’t talk about very often and like, wow, what a powerful thing to be. And here’s the key scene and then accepted. [00:23:00] And that’s what makes this artificial. In the sense that you’re almost guaranteed to be accepted, not because you just paid money, but because that’s our, that’s part of the professionalism that that’s engaged here, it makes it easier to be vulnerable.
It makes it easier to
Craig Graves: deal with some of those. And I would think that the people who get into therapy and hopefully coaching too, are in there because they care about helping people and the things that they hear, they have empathy and understand
Chris Gazdik: that starting from a genuine
Craig Graves: place. Yeah. You know, it’s not like Jesus going to listen to all these people, these problems all day, you know?
Sure. You can’t have
Chris Gazdik: that attitude. I get that question a
Craig Graves: lot. And do you do that all day long? You know, for real,
Chris Gazdik: you have to, that’s part of what training and supervision is about to learn kind of how to do that. Here’s what I want to do. I want to give you my spiel. This is some, this is I’m going to take a risk here a little bit.
You know, all the therapists listening to the show are going to maybe pick this apart, but that’s okay. I’m out there and I’m going to put this out there. Maybe it’s [00:24:00] something that if you’re a therapist listening that you could take and I have no patent on it. But I think it’s a helpful thing to really gear into, right?
In the beginning of the relationship, I will say these things that I’m going to go into someone to kind of pretend like you’re a therapy, your client Craig, and do what. I think not verbatim a hundred percent of the time though, when I sit
Craig Graves: with somebody, when you switch to lonely on lay on the
Chris Gazdik: couch, I do find myself sitting over here, lay on the couch.
Somebody actually asked me one time, should I lean on the couch or whatever? And I’m like, well, I mean, you can, if you want to, but it’s funny. The stigmas,
the stereotypes of divisions people have about this sort of
things. Absolutely funny I shouldn’t say funny. I mean, it’s, whatever it it’s, it’s interesting.
It was, it was funny to me at the moment. So I’m going to tell you, Craig, you know, so I like to give a spiel about what to expect so that we’re kind of on the same page, you know, and how this works and what to expect from me. Right. So I say that I’m pretty active in a therapy session. So I have a lot of back and forth, you know, that I put forward there and I tend to put a [00:25:00] joke there, here and there.
I’m going to leave my two jokes out. Well, I’ll leave my one joke
Craig Graves: Is one of them about West virginia. No, it is not a toothbrush.
Chris Gazdik: Oh my God. Do we have to get,
I miss making fun of you for the only West Virginia joke that you, you know, and now you brought it up, dude
Craig Graves: walked right into that
Chris Gazdik: one. Yeah, I did. I did. So I’m pretty active in therapy, back and forth.
You know, a lot of people in my field do a lot of listening and just reflect back. So that’s not my way. I’m pretty engaging and in what I do. So I’ll also. Been doing this since 1995, usually make a joke about age. You know, even though I look so young, I’ve said that many times, and I’m looking to get rapport, by the way, I’m looking to get connection and deescalate with some of those humor pieces.
And by the way, I will already have had some interaction with you. Maybe you’re into dancing, maybe you’re into, you know, football or cars and flow a little bit in, could be in a digits to be able to engage. Right. Right. So I’ll say that I’ve been doing this since 1995 and the reason why I really put [00:26:00] that out there is because really in all that time, I’ve learned that there’s, I’ve never heard the same story twice, truly.
And even though that sounds like a cliche, that’s really kind of the truth, really. And so to me, I also tell that I’ve been doing this since 1995 because, you know you know, really, to me, it’s a big deal. Like I recognize when people come to a therapy experience, it’s a, it’s a real. Big step and I’ve, I’ve found in all that time.
I’m really humbled by it. I I’m really respectful about, you know, you even being here today and I do make jokes. I do get silly sometimes. And I want you to understand that I never want that to come off as disrespectful because I really take what I do seriously. I do cognitive behavioral therapy, but I really use the whatever works approach.
Right. So my main ideas I look at how is life like, and how do you want life to be like, and, you know, I bridge the gap and I spend a lot of time there, although there’s barriers and things that can get in the way of that. We, we worked through that to get to where you want life to be like meet [00:27:00] with people once a day, once a week.
Sometimes it’s short term 3, 5, 7 times at the times as much longer, as long as we’re being productive with, I just described. And, you know, we figure out how we want this. To go together. And today I got to ask a thousand questions, you know, we got to get kind of the big picture and then next time we can laser in on things.
And, and finally we do insurance cares a little bit more than I do, but we do arrive at a diagnosis and, you know, we’ll figure that out. And it’s important to understand what we’re dealing with with mental health conditions and stuff. So that’s the end of my spiel. And that was kind of hard to do with you because it’s different.
I mean, I’m looking at you, my buddy Craig. And so I don’t, I skipped through that a little bit. It was, that was weird for me. So hopefully I’m a little bit more relaxed in my delivery and I, but I think. The main points in that I wanted you to understand how this works.
Craig Graves: I thought you did great, man, right?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. It, it puts. And I also realize that there’s a lot there and I’ll even go through that and talk a little faster. Sometimes I’ll get a gauge of the person. [00:28:00] Are they serious? Are they laughing? Are they not? Are they smiling? Are they nodding? You know, how’s that going? And I know it’s a lot of information and I don’t care because we’ll review that.
What I’m, what I’m really doing there is describing a major overview of process. How is life like, and how do you want life to be like, and I want to highlight that right now because that’s probably the most important thing in there that I want somebody to understand what to expect with.
Craig Graves: And that’s probably a question a coach would ask, what are you, what, where are you now?
Where do you want to be? And then let’s develop a plan to get there. Right?
Yeah. That’s I think that’s an area of great similarity.
Yeah. Sounds like it. You know? So do you feel like your, your coaching some days? I mean, do you,
Chris Gazdik: you know, that’s an interesting question. I mean, the
answer probably is yes, there’s coaching involved, but, but it’s funny, you know, that lady with the article, [00:29:00] she went down and made various points. You know, the training, we talked about the licensure, we talked about, you know, the, the barriers that you recognize that we work with, the assumption that somebody is actually, well, you know, she made the point now this is a therapist and a coach.
Right. And she made the point of the probably sounds like I’m Downing on coaching and she didn’t want to do that. That wasn’t her intention. No, but it is important to draw out a lot of distinction. So people know what they’re going to, particularly when you’re going to coaching. So you’re not going expecting something that guys you’re not likely to get.
And that’s important. Same thing with therapy. We can’t make magic happen. But when you asked me, am I doing coaching some days probably. I do
targeted goals. I do behavioral goals. We set up, you know, what you’d like life to be like, like I just said, but I feel like it’s like coaching plus plus, so we’re going to do a segment here on what some of the similarities and differences.
Okay. And so when I say [00:30:00] coaching plus, plus I think, and that’s genuine in the moment, right? What I just thought of their coaching. Do we do that? Yes. Plus we also really deal as we’ve already established with a lot of the barriers, trauma, substance abuse, that’s blocking what you’d like to be able to do divorce that has created insecurities, that you’d like to have a healthy second marriage, right?
Like we’re dealing with all of those life experiences, relationships, the daily stress and the grind in addition to plus plus in addition to diagnosing real medical reality, And that to me is one of the biggest differences because, and, you know, cause you were the co-host of the show, we’ve had diagnostic shows and I’m big on realizing and would even help clinicians out there.
Look into camera to talk to therapists. I don’t understand why we have such a [00:31:00] strong reticence to diagnose and that does exist in my field. And I, I understand don’t want to put a label on somebody and this type of thing, but for a very long time in my career, very early on, I kind of figured, you know, if somebody’s got a brain functioning issue, like a D D we, we know that’s biological, have no problem diagnosing.
I do it very cautiously. I want to get really good and trained. I want to know what I’m looking at, what I’m looking for in diagnosing as a science and an
art, but it’s crucial. And I, I worry that sometimes people like, I don’t, I’m sure it’s happened in counseling with me, but I don’t know why you would go to a years long counseling process and be confused about what your diagnosis is, but yet I’m willing
Craig Graves: to bet that there, well, I guess it’s as possible to go through a year’s worth of counseling and there not be a di diagnosis.[00:32:00]
Chris Gazdik: No, it’s a medically necessary treatment that insurance pays for now. Okay. That being said, now we’re going to go down a bunny trail and I appreciate you asking that question and I don’t want to go too far with it because there are some realities, right. Where when you’re dealing with diagnosing, you know, we have something called adjustment disorder.
Okay. That’s a diagnosis. That means you’re having a difficult time with clinical symptoms to, you know, to deal with your dog dying or, you know, a problem with your, your, your son. Right. So that’s supposed to be a three month diagnosis and there’s a lot that goes into diagnosing. There’s also sometimes like I’m dealing with somebody who.
Codependency. I actually think codependency should be a legitimize diagnostic condition and it’s not because there’s not any biological reality with that. So we’ll, we’ll [00:33:00] be able to diagnose adjustment disorder with anxiety is another diagnosis. So you can’t be in therapy and not have a diagnosis because it needs to be medically necessary.
But there’s a, but that, I just kind
Craig Graves: of tried to explain it. Yeah, that sounds interesting to me. Yeah, but you have to have a medical diagnosis to continue that therapy, talk to the insurance insurance to pay for it. That’s weird. So you have to make some BS up. There’s no thing. No. The reason I’m asking this is I I’ve had the opportunity in a past experience to sit in on some therapy sessions and people signed waivers for me to be able to do that.
And there’s one guy comes in and it was like a conversation. Hey, how’s it. How’s it going? No, it’s going great. How’s your new girlfriend? Oh, she’s doing good relationships and check. Oh yeah. We’re having fun. You know, she’s got a kid, so he travels, she does this and that. And at the end of it, I’m like, you guys just sit here and talk, I got it.
And have a diagnosis, you know, and maybe he was paying for it out of his pocket. I don’t know. But with the diagnosis conversation
Chris Gazdik: and that was it. Yeah. The guys, [00:34:00] the guys goes through an assessment. We’re doing that in the beginning of a therapy relationship, but you know where you took me back to his Fitz pearls.
I think it was his name. And he, he well-known clinician started a brand of therapy. I, my brain is blanking on it, but we watched a video and it was in therapy. And so he’s sitting in a chair and he’s engaging in what seems like just conversation, but the dynamics of all that you’re working with in the psychology of a person and the connection that you get into, and he made the point, you know, you raised his arm removed and he was in sync.
It was a gestalt type thing that I want to get too technical. But therapy is therapy. There’s some mirroring that goes on. There’s some different things that happen. What’s that new
Neil Robinson: Pearl created the gestalt.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. I was, I was right. So
Craig Graves: you’re marrying with the other, person’s doing whatever you do.
Chris Gazdik: No shoot.
Stop it, man. I’m going to come over there and throw punches. If you make fun of my industry [00:35:00]
Craig Graves: is a legitimate thing, man. Okay. So on a subconscious level, if you mirror what somebody else is doing, they subconsciously start to trust you more. You’re right.
Neil Robinson: I thought you were being silly here. You’re on point
Chris Gazdik: and, and the feedback that clinicians.
Dwayne, could you Gestault therapy is a very specific and weird thing. I’ve been trained in it. I don’t know much about that. I don’t use it, but the question is what happened here. And he’s like able to really talk in depth about the, the mirroring, the gestalt that occurs, which is a theoretical perspective of the here and now and what you’re experiencing and how you’re connecting with the person and moving through difficult moments.
And you have the, what seems like just conversational moments. So there’s a lot going on. That’s about as quick as best as I can get to that. If that makes sense. It does, you know, because which is, which is why, by the way, I kind of am more [00:36:00] active when I’m working with people. Cause I think that we do lose people sometimes, you know, in early on in the therapy relationship when
they’re not really understanding what they got out of it. I like to teach a lot. I will give a lot of information. I want people, and I know that they’re not going to retain it all. And that’s okay. I don’t use a lot of worksheets and all this kinds of thing. I’m giving you a lot of information as I’m talking to
Craig Graves: you. So when you, when you’re working with a client, do you set up like, so for example, if somebody is stuck with some issue in a coaching session with me, I would look for some way for them to recreate and practice certain things, to be better at this particular issue.
So for example, we’ve talked about, you know, the big four mental toughness on a couple shows I’ve done. And the fourth thing is micro goals, you know, so if you’re feeling overwhelmed, then if you just break things down into small chunks, You can better manage that mentally and you can also get it done a lot quicker, you know?
Right. [00:37:00] So if somebody comes into your office and they’re feeling overwhelmed, do you, do you go through practices like that to, to recreate this situations, to help them work at getting better at it?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. That’s a good question. The short answer is yes. You know, a lot of times people are asking for therapy, you know, strategies and, and methods to manage our emotion and whatnot.
I’ve actually formulate a professional talk based around a list of, I think I got like 70 on there and it’s a developing list that I tend to continue developing. It’s kind of cool. So we sprinkle those things in, but what happens is when you, when you’re operating out of a particular modality, you, you deal with that stuckness.
In lots of, in a myriad of different ways, depending upon what theoretical approach you’re, you’re, you’re really applying it’s back to that idea. Real simple. How is life like and how do you want life to be like, well, coaching plus plus the S the first plus is we’re dealing with those [00:38:00] cognitive biases that are ingrained in your subconsciousness.
We’re dealing with the family barriers and dynamics that you have, and hangups with maybe issues of projection. It’s a psychological thing where we’re dealing with the trauma reactions that come up now, as we’ve talked about a lot on the show, Craig in your amygdala, that creates startle reactions, and, you know, just several things that go on where we’re dealing with these stuck things in a way that’s looking at well, what is creating the stuckness?
And there’s a lot, given your theoretical orientation that you, you do. Sprinkling in strategies and tips, like, you know, break things down to small pieces. Yeah. Interesting. I
Craig Graves: don’t know, boy, there’s a lot of, so what if there’s not a past trauma necessarily driving this stuckness, let’s just say a person shot introverted and they want to get better at public speaking, for example.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s interesting that you would say that that’s a really good example [00:39:00] that that’s when the plus plus comes in. Because a lot of times when I find that is the presenting issue, I’m looking at what diagnostically might be going on for this person. And very often. I will find that there is an anxiety condition.
The person never knew that they had, it could be generalized anxiety disorder where you worry, worry, worry. It could be, you know, a social phobia. That’s a very specific form of anxiety. They want to get better at public speaking, but they’ve had a struggle, all their life, meeting new people and avoiding social situations.
That’s a, that’s a diagnosis. So the stuckness might be the reality of a condition that’s ongoing their whole life and never knew it.
Craig Graves: So how would you treat a condition
Chris Gazdik: like that? Well, therapy
Craig Graves: is like, you know, the more you do something, it seems the easier it becomes. So like what’s the lady’s name on shark tank? The real estate investor. I’m not sure. Oh man. Yeah, Barbara [00:40:00] Corcoran. She said that when she was early on in her career, she had to, she was going to go speak in front of a group of real estate investors or whatever.
Chris Gazdik: I know where you’re going and she got up there
Craig Graves: and she couldn’t even. You know, this lady’s on TV now, but she couldn’t, she couldn’t speak in front of these people. Nothing would come out of her mouth. She went off stage shamed and humiliated. So what she did is she joined Toastmasters and just started practicing and presenting.
And you know, now she’s on TV and, you know, so the thing is she just went out and did it and eventually got comfortable enough to be okay with it. So, I mean, in a situation like that, would you say there’s an underlying condition or she just did it and got over a conquered her for you if you will.
Chris Gazdik: I mean, there’s no way that I could really answer that.
Well, I mean, yeah, I guess not really, there isn’t much that I would go into.
Craig Graves: Right. She just did it and practiced it and
Chris Gazdik: got better at it. So in the. Phase of, of meeting people and figuring things out together, which I say on the show and I mean it [00:41:00] right. And that’s what I do in my work. I’m going to be assessing so many things and you’re going to be knowing I’m going to be talking to you.
Like I said, I’m active back and forth. I’m not doing anything weird. I’m just talking to you. And I point things out, we figure it out together. I’m doing assessment and, and you know, if I’m ever even thinking about diagnosis, something, we talk about it. Like it’s not a mystery as no behind the curtains kind of thing.
But, but what you were asking makes me think of like, yeah, well oftentimes if we all have anxiety and we all freak out a little bit, when we’re in a situation and we all might freeze totally. And the reality of it is yeah. When you do something more, the better off that you’ll get to doing it, comfort and whatnot.
And even if you have a condition. That’s still the same. The challenge really lies in the fact that when you have trauma or when you have substance abuse and insecurities from that, or a diagnosable condition that is of an anxiety nature, that’s extra, extra hard [00:42:00] because your brain literally is working against you in, in, in ways that typically people aren’t really experiencing when we’re just anxious.
I mean, we might feel super anxious even, but there’s not a condition there. So
Craig Graves: yeah, that’s what I was. That’s where I was going. Yeah. You might feel really anxious or really whatever stress, whatever, but you’re not suffering from. Underlying clinical
Chris Gazdik: condition, unless you are. And I’m looking at how you operate in marriage, I’m looking at how you operate in your own self-talk and looking at how you operated in school, when you were younger, I’m looking at how you date, I’m looking at, you know, a lot of things as I get to know you, that I’m pulling in to see what criteria for diagnosis can be met.
Craig Graves: Yeah. So in a therapy session, do you find yourself giving advice? Yeah. Or asking questions and bringing out of the
Chris Gazdik: person I do. And I think that’s probably going to leave a little controversial. You do what? Giving advice. I think the lady in the[00:43:00] article would’ve said no.
Craig Graves: So he goes, most of what we’re taught as coaches is to bring it out of the person.
Right. And you’d be amazed. You know that as a therapist, how you can change somebody’s
Chris Gazdik: perspective. Life
Craig Graves: life. Yes. By asking questions. Yeah, absolutely. You know, because it might be a question they haven’t asked themselves, you know, Elon Musk just bought Twitter. Yeah, he did. And he said the answers are relatively easy once you figure out which questions to ask.
Yeah. I’ve heard that. I love that quote, right? Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Great quotes. Really good. And that’s the mass majority of what it is that we’re doing and that’s part of what is behind as well. Let’s figure it out together. I want to go back and be clear. You ask if I give advice. And I said, yes, what’s really more accurate is sometimes I will give direct suggestions.[00:44:00]
And when I do it, it’s very, very rare. It’s not really common. And I usually find myself pointing out, Hey, you know, have you ever thought of this? And, and so you can, you can, we can Park’s words. I mean, pure is the pure therapy is no, you, it comes from you, you’re guiding yourself. We’re pointing out different facets where we’re observing things and we’re, we’re reflecting them to you.
I mean, there’s a lot that I’m doing, but the simple thought is, you know, yeah. There’s some times that you, you might give a suggestion and you can interpret
Craig Graves: that. There may be times when I say, have you thought about this? There may be times where I. Advice, you know, right. There may be times where I lead somebody into a conclusion with questions.
Right. And you know, what, if you did, what if he would have done this? How does this work
Chris Gazdik: in wa oh yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. There’s, there’s a lot of, I will say that you’re not going to go to a therapist to get [00:45:00] advice. Yeah. That’s, I’ll be clear there. So, well, I think a lot
Craig Graves: of, I don’t know if a lot do or not, but I know coaches who give advice.
Yeah. And I don’t think that’s the best, the best way to do things.
Chris Gazdik: Correct. Yeah. You, I mean, we go through so much training in the therapy world to deal with something that I alluded to earlier, countertransference. I mean, we do a lot of work, a lot, a lot of work on. Not allowing your own issues to come into the room, preventing your own rationalization or your own process.
Like there’s a lot of fail safes, if you will. That really protect the relationship from yourself. Right? Like a lot of supervision goes into that. I mean, you know, there’ve been some to be honest, tough moments in my training, or I’ve been called straight out, you know, on, on, [00:46:00] wait a minute, what did you do there?
And what are you thinking? Why was that the process? They do therapy, if you will. But they’re telling me basically like, yo, you just brought something into this relationship that you’ve got to, you’ve got to manage that, you know, you want to go a different route with this, so that it’s really, really not about you.
Like, for instance, let me give you a golden rule. We do use self disclosure. We’ll disclose stuff about myself. I do. Readily and freely, not super often, but I’m pretty genuine. And I think that has some great strengths that people get a lot out of work, you know, in therapy when that’s the case, but it needs to be, hopefully I’m compliant with this.
It’s a tough standard, but a hundred percent of the time that has got to be for the benefit and about the person you’re working with, not yourself now a hundred percent, it’s a hundred percent. And I’m not gonna say I do that a hundred percent of the time. And that’s a, that’s a tough admission. Like I take that very seriously.
Very, very seriously. You have to [00:47:00] really facilitate yourself. You have to really kind of be on guard about your own. And when you give advice, getting back to that, man, you, you open yourself up to a lot of that. And so very sparingly, more like suggestions, and we’re trained in a lot of ways to kind of facilitate our own process.
Let me see what we have on our list, Craig. Cause it was just a great conversation, by the way. I, I knew this was going to be pretty cool because you do coaching and I do therapy and I knew this was going to be kind of fun. How are we doing so far? You think?
Craig Graves: I think it’s good. It’s you’re right. It’s fun conversation.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. Similar to that. I came out with the major differences I see in diagnosing. I think what you were talking about and alluding to earlier, you’re looking on the show notes. I put, like, I know that Craig will say a lack of focus on the past. But I wrote like we can be, you know, front sided focused as well is a phrase from the unbeatable mind or really from seals.
But also do the dynamics of the [00:48:00] past with psychology. And I was going to propose, does coaching, but I think we’ve talked a lot about that targeted goals versus some styles in therapy, such as mine is, is dealing with mindfulness a lot of in the moment, you know, what are you, what are you, where are you at?
And the goals with therapy. Or coaching, I would wonder are just more targeted. Like you said, how do we get what you want? Right. I’m just gonna run through these and then we’ll chat about any of that stick out to you. There are so many modalities of therapy actually, and there are so many forms of coaching.
I think that’s a great similarity. There’s lots of different types of coaching. And there, I would say several, maybe, maybe even many different theoretical perspectives perspectives with, with therapy. Yeah. You know what I mean? You’ve got, you know, your Stolt therapy. We mentioned with Mr. Pearls, CBT
Craig Graves: logo therapy, kinds of therapy,
Chris Gazdik: motivational interviewing, you know substance abuse therapy is kind of almost 12 step therapies.
It’s not really a therapies program, but yeah, there’s, there’s this, there’s a lot of different [00:49:00] modalities. And I, I do tend to eclectically mix them together a little bit. I mentioned the ethics and the board designed to protect the public Insight about clinical barriers, the conditions I was mentioning that we’ve talked about a lot of these already.
Some people feel like the therapists don’t say enough. I wanted to camp out there for a minute. Feedback is limited because of their style and avoidance of being direct. So
I wonder in coaching. Okay, this is, this is a cool one. So I wonder out loud with you in coaching. Are there many sessions that you would observe or sit down with and feel like, wow, they didn’t really teach me anything. They didn’t, I didn’t really get what they were trying because they didn’t even say that much.
I mean, they were, they did a lot of listening and I just did talking. Is there really ever really that in coaching. Cause I would envision,
Craig Graves: well, [00:50:00] you know, always ask, always ask at the end of the conversation what’s what was your biggest takeaway today? Or what IM what impact did you get something? You know?
Yeah. I’ve never got, nobody’s ever said was this was terrible. This sucks. I didn’t get anything about it. Ain’t going to tell you that. Well maybe, maybe not, but they’re paying me money. They should, I would agree. Absolutely. So I’ve never had anybody say NAS, this was terrible. Didn’t get anything out of it.
Chris Gazdik: Well, I guess what I’m asking is
Craig Graves: there are times when it feels that way to me, like, like it, might’ve just been a conversation for an hour, coaching sucked and then I’m like, Hey, what did you get out of this today? And they might say something profound. So I think I felt that way. And maybe people are maybe, maybe clients have just fed me a line to make me happy.
But that’s the case
Chris Gazdik: when you’re interacting in coach. Is it more like a normal quote unquote normal conversation [00:51:00] where there’s back and forth? Or is there a five minute period of time where you might say nothing 10 minutes, maybe even
Craig Graves: I’ve never gone that long, but there are times when I’ll just pose a question and sit there
Chris Gazdik: and use the silence.
Craig Graves: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s kind of uncomfortable, right? It, you have to know what I mean. There are times where that happens. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: So there’s use of silence, but see that that’s something that I think particularly with certain modalities of therapy, psychodynamic, for instance, I don’t even think we’ve mentioned good old Freud yet.
And psychodynamic analysis that which still happens by the way people, people use psychodynamic. Well, I do, I should say
there’s a lot of. I mean, you might in that type of a modality, say a fragment of a sentence, maybe every four minutes, if somebody is not [00:52:00] talking, or if they’re really talking, I can imagine you might even go a half hour or not saying anything. Just
Craig Graves: there are situations like that. Verbals. And I ask a question every couple of minutes or every five minutes, you know, and they may, it may take a long time to get the answer, you know?
So, I mean, I think there are times where the, it, I think it really should be this way. I’ve been in coaching sessions where I was the coachee. And my good grief is this person I’m going to shut up.
Chris Gazdik: Right? Well, there’s that too. I’ve heard that criticism as well. Somebody literally just told me this week, I went to a therapy session years ago and I heard more about her than I did meet. Yeah. Right, right. Which you don’t want,
Craig Graves: you don’t want that. You don’t have that.
Chris Gazdik: Exactly. Right. So there’s, there’s extremes. I think that do
happen. But I, but I think in general, sometimes particularly younger clinicians, I’ll, I’ll say it again. I have found this a lot in supervision. They’re afraid to be direct. They’re afraid he’s just laying out there, which is, goes into the [00:53:00] diagnosing. I’m telling you what I’m diagnosing. I’m telling you what I see. I’m telling you what is observed and, and there there’s, there’s a great hesitancy. So we’ll just sit back and let, maybe ask a question. I wonder, should I say this?
Should I say that? You know, and, and thus, the person feels like they didn’t. I think it’s
Craig Graves: really the job of the tr therapist or the coach, either one to say things. Or bold and maybe hard to say, or even hard to hear. Yeah. For Tom, because people need to hear that. Yeah. And I don’t think you can go in there and say, oh, I don’t want to hurt Chris’s feelings and say, you know, I think you have to go, not at you just say, Chris, you know, you know, you got to
Chris Gazdik: trust,
Craig Graves: but you have to be able to say, you have to be able to say hard things to people and ask hard questions and you know, and maybe even,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, for instance, Craig, so you’ve been talking about feeling kind of down and stressed out with work.
You know, when you’re feeling those things that we were talking about, lack of motivation, lack of energy. Have you ever really thought about ending your life?
Craig Graves: It’s a tough [00:54:00] question, right?
Chris Gazdik: Right, right. Yeah. You should seen his eyes on the camera when the YouTube or the Facebook live, right? Yeah. I knew you were playing that out a little bit.
It is. It’s like, you know, people are afraid to, to ask and
that, but that’s something that’s really important as a part of an assessment that we do. And so some of that comes with, experience,
Craig Graves: I think you have to say hard things to, you know I had a client one time who we would, we would design practices. We would, we would say, you know, by the next session we’re going to do this.
I’m going to follow up in three days to see how it’s going. You know, I’d follow up, no response, get on the next call, the guy hadn’t done anything. And then you say, and then he’s like, I got any advice for me. Yeah. You know, you gotta do the work. If you want to get ahead, if you want to move it forward, you got to actually do something.
So you have to be able to, to say those kinds of things to somebody to, it’s hard
Chris Gazdik: to do that because you’re playing around. I mean, that’s why I say I am, dude. I am so humbled when [00:55:00] I’m working with somebody. It is, it is it’s just so. Humbling that somebody, I mean, people have shared things with me that they’ve never shared with Any one in their life.
Like that’s a big deal that is such a big deal. Or for the first time they’re talking about their experiences in Vietnam and they’ve lived their entire lives. I’m thinking about someone very specifically, very early on in my career and that, that stuff. And
Craig Graves: you, you’re the guy that’s listening to those stories.
Yeah. I mean, what an honor,
Chris Gazdik: what a big deal. Yeah, it really is. You know, that’s why I say that spiel that I did. And I hope I did it decently to give you a real, genuine understanding. Cause I want to set that up. And I mean, what I say when I say it, so are there goals? Same. I leaned on the article for this.
I’m just going to go about this real quick, because I’m aware of the time a little bit. I thought I liked what she was talking about. So check this out from, from this therapist, who’s also a coach. She says the basic of presumption of coaching is that coaching clients [00:56:00] are in a good place mentally and emotionally, and ready to receive guidance and instructions on how to make changes.
That will help them achieve their goals, which I think we talked about it. I think she nailed it. Yeah. Right. She also says, and I voted this out. I thought this was interesting. She says most life coaches, unless they have a background in traditional counseling don’t know enough about, or I’m sorry. Yeah.
Don’t know enough to know that the true obstacles of their client’s goals, maybe clinical issues such as depression, anxiety, ADA, I would add bipolar and even schizophrenia even, and whatnot. Cause people can function on a high level with issues like that. And that I think is a big, crucial aspect of, are you sitting with somebody that’s going to be able to identify conditions that are absolutely the function of what’s blocking you chronically in your life from where you, you want to be.
So she said the basic summaries therapy works to address and solve problems. [00:57:00] Whereas coaching is helping people to achieve their goals. Thought that was a pretty cool broad statement. It’s pretty good. Pretty broad, but yeah, I think pretty pretty on point. Yeah, I hope I haven’t sounded like. Against coaching, like she wrote in her article because I’m really not,
Craig Graves: I didn’t get the impression that you were against coaching at all from the conversation we just
Chris Gazdik: had, because, but I do think that there’s a lot of things that are lacking and it will be honest about that.
I’m really concerned as big as coaching has become that there’s a lot of people talking, working through things that are unlicensed and a lot of things are really missed, could be. And I’m passionate about mental health and I’m passionate about substance abuse at care, a lot, having done this for, for so long.
And there is a little bit of a concern about the misperception and what you’re getting when you’re spending $500 to sit [00:58:00] with his fancy coach that is completely missing the fact that you have chronic depression.
Craig Graves: It could be that though, you know, I think a lot of coaches work with people who are already performing on a high level.
They’re just trying to get to the next, the next rung in the ladder or whatever. So like, you know,
Some Tony Robbins, for example, well,
Chris Gazdik: you know, I’m in a bag, actually, a
Craig Graves: coach, who’s working with people who are already very successful. They’re just trying to become even more successful.
Neil Robinson: You know,
Chris Gazdik: I’m going to double down on that actually, because when the way you just put that made me think of what I’m saying is a as is as of a little bit of a concern, there are a lot of business coaches, you know, and they’re working with CEOs and people that are highly successful and they’re wanting to take the next step.
Broaden their scope or however you might call a professional business goal, but what they very well likely, I would [00:59:00] even say that likely are missing with a lot of those folks are bonafide anxiety based driven conditions that create that drive that makes them quote unquote successful. There could be. And I think there’s a
Craig Graves: lot of that there very well could be something like that,
Chris Gazdik: which is okay. I mean, you know, I mean, you’re coaching still and you’re kind of making the next step and what not. But my problem is that it gets, it gets maybe missed. And the, the, the opportunity to identify something with that person in their life that they’ve never identified is missed.
And then they have a lot more pain, emotional pain moving forward. And that’s why I think it’s important the way unbeatable mind, for instance, you, you, you’re very, when we originally talked about doing this show, what Greg, two years ago. Yeah. I think you made the point, I mean, you were dogmatic and very clear, like, yeah, they are training us.
They’re telling us, you know, refer, refer, refer to therapy when you see [01:00:00] something or a mental health clinician that isn’t the scope of what it is that we’re doing. I mean, you couldn’t have been clearer about
Craig Graves: yeah, you’re correct. And an unbeatable does they reiterate that over and over.
Chris Gazdik: I hope that’s done in other programs.
I hope so too,
Craig Graves: but it definitely isn’t in ours
Chris Gazdik: because that’s really, really crucial. Yeah. Really, really important. Yeah. Well, I was going to do a little bit of a segment on how to find a good coach and how to find you know, how to search out for therapy. I don’t mean to short it, but we did do a show.
You know, if you would look up real quick, we did that. We did that
Craig Graves: together. Craig, when did how to find therapy or something like that, you know? Yeah. It
Chris Gazdik: wasn’t,
ah, boy, that’s been a while ago, we talked about how to access therapy and spent a lot of time with that. I don’t remember what it was titled. I don’t
Craig Graves: either.
I don’t remember what show that was, but we did. We did talk about that. I’m not sure what you were thinking along those lines, but I think we could probably just quickly say super condensed. If you’re looking for a coach, find an [01:01:00] organization like unbeatable. Tony Robbins has an organization there’s other organizations out there that, that certified coaches.
And then they have a list of coaches that you could choose from if you were going to get coached in that particular area and ran, read reviews. I mean, you know, Google’s golden man with reviews and those kinds of things. And I would imagine it’s the same thing with therapists, right?
Chris Gazdik: You know, the internet has allowed us to, you know, have, but you also got to be careful about those things, man.
It can be goofy, you know, out there as well. When you’re as with all social media things, just be careful what you read.
Craig Graves: I think if, you know, if we should look up Chris guys, they can see what kind of reviews he has new.
Chris Gazdik: I’ll call it good reviews. But if you’ve got a hundred, I’m going to tell you a story.
Oh
Craig Graves: man, it’s got a hundred people that leave a good review for you. That
Chris Gazdik: let me tell you a true story, digital word of mouth. And this is very humbling for me to tell you, but I’m going to, I’m going to do it. The spiel that I gave you earlier, I’ve crafted that over many years, really like for, for a long time.
And the piece that I had. [01:02:00] I do make jokes and get silly sometimes. And I never want that to come off disrespectful. Cause I take very seriously. What I do is kinda, my lines, that’s new. And that’s only been in my spiel maybe for about four
or five years. And it’s because I did read a Google review.
Craig Graves: Really?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And what did, what it said was, and I, I truly hope this person is listening. Oh my gosh. I didn’t even think about that though. Right now. Like that would be, I hope because what they
said is, oh, you know, it was easy to talk to started out really well. You know, we were dealing
with, with issues and you know, what about three sessions in and then he laughed at me.
I cra, I cra. I couldn’t car. I can’t tell you enough. I was just, I want to eat this microphone. Like I was mortified. Like I, that’s why I say what I say now, because I do deescalate with humor. Some. And I do that purposely for, for clinical reasons and this [01:03:00] person felt, and again, if you’re listening, this is a very good moment for me to tell you, like, I did not want to laugh and give the impression that I laugh at anybody, because that is so far from, from the way that I operate in the way that I, I feel.
And so, so I say that now I did, it bothered me so much that I added a complete part of my spiel to it. Yeah. So,
Craig Graves: so there’s things, that’s the great thing about those reviews, man. There’s people put stuff like that in there and you can say, Hey, I can see that change how I do things, you know? Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, yeah.
So we did, you didn’t come up with a show, Neil, that’s a bummer. It was very early on in our program where we did it probably episode like 20, 30, maybe 50 or possibly a hundred. But it, we, we took a deep dive on that. What is therapy or something like that. So I don’t remember, but it’s, it’s really important to do an interview maybe to I’ve had people just this week.
Somebody’s asking me questions about. Processed and what I’ve done. I think that’s a really good thing to do to reach out for you going to meet with somebody agree. [01:04:00] You look at your insurance panels to see who’s on panel to use your insurance.
Craig Graves: Yes. Yeah. That’s really good. Yeah. An interview. I haven’t thought about that.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I’ve made a direct suggestion to that with people and, and, and understand you go and do an initial assessment and you’re assessing the therapist as well. You know, if you don’t feel good about the process, go do another initial
Craig Graves: appointment. Yeah. I’ve actually, I know coaches in unbeatable program, who’ve met with people, potential clients, and they would say, you know what?
I think Neil would be a better fit for you. I’m going to refer you to
Chris Gazdik: him. Yeah. And we do that as, as therapist as well. There’s an issue I’m not really up on, or Frankly uncomfortable with like, we were taught and trained back to don’t let your stuff come in. If I’ve been molested as a child and your primary issue, are you, you you’re, you’re coming to therapy for that.
And I don’t, I’m not in a good place. I’m going to refer you out. Yeah. Right. Cause I’m not facilitated myself that great. Right. So, so that does, that does happen and that’s important, [01:05:00] so, oh wow. We got it. Maybe, maybe
Neil Robinson: there episode 23 was how do I access mental health? That’s it. That’s it.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, yeah. Episode 23.
And we talked a lot about how to choose as well in that, in that episode I’m leaving. And
Neil Robinson: the moment I go, episode 22, you are crazy why we needed a diagnosis because you talked about the diagnosis, packed them together. Might be good. Checking that one out too. Cause you did talk about the importance of why you diagnose people when they come in.
So those could be two to check out episode 22 and
Chris Gazdik: 23. Yeah, I, and I remember that now that you say I did pack those together, that for that, for that reason. So, all right, Craig, this was fun, man. Doing it.
Craig Graves: Glad to, glad to spend the evening with you, man.
Chris Gazdik: All right. So you guys have a great week and we’ll tune in next time.