After our first month with the new panel, we bring back cohost Adam to give his perspective on the month that was. We also included Mr. John Pope to get his take on some of the topics he missed.
We went over the foundation of marriage, how emotions can drive you, and religious trauma. We recap the shows, what the panelists thoughts on the topic and Adam picks the show that he liked the best. Do you agree with him on which show stood out the most to you?
Tune in to See the October Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- Current Event: Talking about the Political ads and fearmongering that is done to try to get people to NOT vote for the other party.
- Review the episodes on Marriage Foundation, How Emotions Drive you, and Religious Trauma.
- Do you agree with how the therapists landed on each topic?
- Which show was your favorite?
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Episode #204 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to yet another edition of Through a Therapist’s Eyes. This is October the 27th, 2022. We have in store for you the month in review. I’m excited about this episode because for a few reasons. So we got Mr. Neil, who’s usually behind the scenes in front of the camera. How you doing, sir?
Neil Robinson: Oh, I’m, I’m making it fantastic.
Chris Gazdik: We’ve got Adam Cloninger, who is hanging with us. You know him from being the co-host for how Long, Man,
Adam Cloninger: it’s been a while now.
Chris Gazdik: I don’t, I really don’t wanna know. Whoing months, right? Or we at a year? No, I
Adam Cloninger: think it, I think it’s been, I think it might be an open
Chris Gazdik: more than a year, hasn’t it? Maybe. Maybe. Is it that long?
I’d bewa managed to get older and stuff. Probably fast, right, John? When things get older, things get so fast. . Yes. . I said it’s very D [00:01:00] in a word. Turn around.
John-Nelson Pope: Turn around and it’s
Chris Gazdik: gone. Gone. It’s gone. It scares me cuz it’s supposed to get worse. Anyway, we have and you will.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah.
And it’ll get worse for you. Oh my God.
Chris Gazdik: And then we have John Pope who is with us. He is a therapist that is on our panel. So the month in review y’all is a, is a new concept in the life and journey of through a therapist size. So what’s gonna happen is we have every month, the last month of the, or last week of the month. We’re gonna have typically just Neil, me and Adam hanging out, kind of really talking about all of the topics that we covered in a month’s time.
So I, I have a sneaking suspicion this might end up being one of the shows that get most views and looked at because you really do get kind of coverage on where we landed. That’s a segment for each week, like where we landed on the show topics that we had this week. So I’m, I’m, I’m really excited about this content and I think it’ll be a fun conversation cause we know each other [00:02:00] and you know, so I think we’ll have fun kind of covering these things with you and it’ll, it’ll be a lot of kind of concise information about all of the topics.
So I, I I think that’s a pretty neat this, this particular last week of the month will be a pretty neat deal. So, but this is a little different cuz you’re hanging with us. Yes. .
Adam Cloninger: He looks really
Chris Gazdik: excited. I know, right? I’m excited. Should we, do we need to, You need coffee or, Yeah. Have a
John-Nelson Pope: flat affect,
Chris Gazdik: don’t I?
Little bit. Yeah. That’s a clinical term. Yes. Flat affect. Well, guess what I do? What the hell does that mean? You know, A flat affect.
John-Nelson Pope: Well,
Chris Gazdik: I’m smiling. Okay. . Yeah, that’s good. You know I say that because I did get feedback that, you know, we used, I mean, it’s funny when us clinicians are hanging out, right?
Mm-hmm. like, Oh my gosh. It is just like eft. What is that? An acronyms, you know, clinical terms banter of like people, they can’t understand therapists when we talk about stuff, dude, . Yeah. You know? So we gotta be careful about that. That was just giving you a hard time. Back to you. I’m like a wall. What’s that?
I’m like a wall. [00:03:00] That’s an affect. Yeah, affect is your mood. Right? It’s a word that we use that describes, you know, your affect, your, your clinical presentation of your motions and mood and presentation. So, So you’re like a wall. You feeling like a wall today? Not really. Okay. . I’m just kidding. Keep talking Chris and get a funner as maybe you will.
Indeed. So that is the introduction of what’s going on. I didn’t finish because John is with us this week. Just because he wasn’t able, we’re getting our schedules together and our routines down, and so I think he had clinical hours that I did. Yeah. Yeah. So, so he, I, I really wanted to pull him in this week for the month in review to really get your thoughts, man, because we had some interaction in the hallway just talking through the weeks.
And I, I wanted to get your, your take on, on the, the topics that we had. So thank you for showing up tonight for this the boys month in review. I’m glad to be here. Yep. Cool. So this [00:04:00] is the month in review, but still where you get insights in your home and in your car, but not to delivery therapy services in any way.
Got the book out, Rediscovering the emotions and becoming your best Self. I need to be starting to pop Neil the, the second book’s coming out kinda not immediately soon, but I should have been holding a
Adam Cloninger: book when he is talking about this. I could have been, you could have model. That’s the benefit of the extra people.
We can have Vans.
Chris Gazdik: You’re not quite the best model though, man. I gotta be honest. Maybe not for
Adam Cloninger: you. .
Chris Gazdik: I wondered how he was gonna respond to that. We are switching kind of, although maybe adding to our Facebook Live component of the podcast. So be looking for that. We’re really kind of thinking a lot about YouTube.
If you check out the YouTube channel. Neil’s done some really cool things. Popping out some, some graphics popping in a preview of something that happened in the show before we get to the show. It’s pretty cool stuff. I really appreciate Neil, with what you’ve been doing with it. You can hit the subscribe button.
It’s very important because you get the channel in your little lineup or whatever, [00:05:00] like of YouTube TV basically. And then you hit the little bell and you get an alarm every time we are on there live. So pretty cool things happening on YouTube. Five stars on Apple Review, never four. That would be wrong.
No, seriously. Reviews really help us out. If you write things on the, the reviews that even helps out a whole lot more on Apple, Spotify as well. Contact@throughatherapistseyes.com. And finally, check out our website not met Psych through a therapist eyes.com. So this is the human emotional experience, the month in review.
Let’s figure this thing out together, is what I like to say. So Neil, what’d you think, Man? Good month. Weird month. I. Introducing the panel like this is kind of different for us, isn’t it? It’s
Neil Robinson: been it was an interesting change on the technology side. There’s a lot more on my lot of difference on the back end.
So the brain,
Chris Gazdik: Like
Neil Robinson: fried? Yeah, like I, like I told Adam, I was like, I have to pay more attention cuz you know, we, we’ve changed the video formats that of split screen [00:06:00] because there’s more people I have to toggle back and forth. So I actually have to, you know, be present in this show. You know, I can’t get distracted by an email or a text or look up something cuz I’ve done that, where I would look up something while you’re talking.
But I have potential cuz if it’s switching from one side to the next, I have to, I’m trying to toggle , so that’s why it’s always so weird. But yeah, it’s, it’s been interesting. It’s been fun getting the different viewpoints, you know, having three different opinions versus just one or two. Yeah. Has been fun.
And I like the, we’ve talked about the age difference going from Victoria all the way up to John. It’s been very. Very interesting. Well, thank you .
Chris Gazdik: John, just, just go with the age jokes. You’re gonna get a lot of ’em. I know. You’re gonna get a lot of ’em. It’ll,
Adam Cloninger: Hey, she’s the other book end. You gotta think of it that way.
Chris Gazdik: That’s right. It is. It’s a book end. It’s a good book end. But yeah, you know, it’s funny for me too different because my show prep, like, you know, I, I, I like to put a lot of information. Now part of what we wanna do is disseminate, you know, information. But I’ve found, I mean, it’s interesting because [00:07:00] I’ll have that whole, all this information I’ve thought about and you know, really prepped and whatever.
And then you got John’s view on something and Casey and Victoria start talking. I have a thought. And we’re all like, clinically minded in the topic, so that I’ve looked sometimes down at my prep and it’s like, you know, I think one week it basically abandoned basically three quarters of. Of the, the, some of the stuff, you know what I
Neil Robinson: mean?
What, Yeah. And, and with Casey and John, they know a lot and they elaborate on a lot of stuff. It’s great. And so it’s fantastic, but it’s definitely like you don’t have that layman like, you know, someone like me or Adam being like, Oh that’s cool. I don’t know what to do with it. It’s like they’re Say what Casey and John are like, Oh yeah, by the way, back in 1982, this one study from this one, I’m like, it’s really cool cuz it’s so much good information and it’s just, I’m soaking it in too.
But it is a different dynamic now.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, yeah. So, and, and before the mics came on us telling John, well that’s no, the mics were on right when we were talking about affect. Right. Yeah. We have to be careful about that John. We like, it’s crazy like, you know, people just [00:08:00] listening to a therapist conversation.
Can you imagine that? They really heard our rear conversations, like behind the scenes. Oh my goodness. . That’d be scary, wouldn’t it? Yeah,
John-Nelson Pope: it definitely would be. It’s a different perspective. You, you know, I go home and I talk to my wife like, Right, well, Joy, you have a flat affect. Oh,
Chris Gazdik: no. , You do not do that to her, do you?
I don’t. Oh my goodness. My wife would throat.
John-Nelson Pope: But you’re decompensating. Yeah, . Now I’d get crowned for that.
Chris Gazdik: Lisa would throat punch me if I tried to do that. She would not tolerate blue. Well, what would she do? Adam? Could you imagine? Lisa?
Adam Cloninger: Uh, I think she would probably hear flat and then forget what you said after that.
She’d be like, You said I had a flat. What?
Chris Gazdik: Actually you’re on point. .
Adam Cloninger: Chris would be like, No, no. Wait a minute. That’s not what I meant. That’s not what I . It’s not at all.
Chris Gazdik: So yeah, it’s been fun though, Neil. I, I, I appreciate that the, the differences that we’re playing around with and, and trying to get geared in.
So I [00:09:00] do have a current event that I wanna pop off onto. And then we’ll get into the, the segments of what the shows were. Which by the way, we had the panel introduction and then we had the foundation of marriage that we talked about, which was cool. We have episode 11 and I like, you know, I’ve told John and a lot of my clients actually listen to 11 or, or 1 0 1 and episode 2 0 1, if you do that, like our clients have a massively cool understanding of emotion focused therapy and what the ground level is of close attachments.
It’s that. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s really cool that, that we have that and I’ve, I’ve actually done that and then we had emotions, how they can drive us day to day. And then John, you and I talked about religious drama, right? So those were, those were the shows that we had this week. So. We’re gonna also get used to having a segment in I don’t know if you’ve thought about this at all, but I want a little bit of a segment that will develop a norm with, with you, [00:10:00] Adam.
Adam Cloninger: Yep. Yep. I know. Oh, you’re kind of prepared for that.
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of figured that was coming. So, I’m, I’m, We gotta get, I don’t have an ID yet, so We’ll, we’ll think of something and
Chris Gazdik: I actually thought about, See what it is, is Adam, I’m gonna ask him his favorite show or most interesting show of the, of.
Right. And I thought about Neil actually asking you and Adam to debate and come to a conclusion on which is the most interesting social. I think that we’re probably gonna, we’ll experiment with that, you know, so you guys can get into a,
Adam Cloninger: along those same lines, I wanna mention this now. My girlfriend, she’s listened to the foundation of marriage, just the only episode she’s listened to since changed format.
And she said, that’s by far the best episode I’ve seen. Oh, for real? Yeah. I mean, you know, that means I wasn’t in it and she said it’s the best in one, but
still that’s not what she meant. But I know that if
Neil Robinson: she’s digging for marriage, she’s doing it wrong. .
Adam Cloninger: Yeah. Right. She don’t have to
Chris Gazdik: dig . Oh, what? She don’t have to dig.
Very cool. I’m hers . That’s cool, man. That’s cool. So he, so we’ll [00:11:00] get into that and I think we’ll move to that next, but here’s, here’s my current event and you know, the three of you can chime in as you want to you know, or say nothing. Totally. Because I’ll almost sound off. For a minute. And the, the current event is here, here we’re, we’re, we’re here in North Carolina and we’ve got political season going crazy, and we got the election coming up and we have some ads.
My, my first experience in listening to these ads about Sherry Beasley was just like, Oh God, here’s that ad again. Oh God, here’s that ad again. I mean, it has flooded as I’m sure you all are experiencing all throughout the country. All, all the different states in in our union are, are going through some of this stuff, which is almost like comical sometimes, but political trauma, it is.
We need to do a show right On political trauma for real. You know what, that we got a month coming up and the election will be in November. Stay tuned. I could see that happening. You wanna, you wanna prep that show? , [00:12:00]
John-Nelson Pope: I’ll think about it, .
Adam Cloninger: Okay. Make sure you use that. What’s it called? They call it wrap up smear.
Is that the term I’m the correct term. I’m thinking of what, where they like tell something about a political opponent that’s has no basis and then they’ll, they’ll call the newspaper or the, you know, CNN and I say, Hey so and so we
heard fact checking. We can’t, we can’t tell who heard it from, We heard they did this.
And then on the background they’ll say, Hey, we heard from Dependable Source that Soandso did this, and then everybody hears it and then there’s no basis on it. But since they heard it on CNN or whatever, must be true. That must be
Chris Gazdik: true. True.
John-Nelson Pope: You know, one of, one of the things, and, and the reason why I would say political trauma as in religious trauma Yep.
Is the sense that people as we’ve become more secularized in our society, they have to have something to believe in. And so you get people that. Let’s say become true believers, whether it’s ultra right or ultra left in Oh, yes. Sense. [00:13:00] There’s that religion
Chris Gazdik: aspect to that. You, we, we, I’m gonna cut you off because we are gonna do that show, We’ll, we’ll do that in November.
I think that is a totally cool mental health thing to look at in way of the cultural divide. Mm-hmm. that we’ve had as a huge mental, Should you do it November or
Adam Cloninger: maybe do it toward the
Chris Gazdik: end of November? Do It is a Thanksgiving dude that’s at the end of November. Argument. After the, after we’re recovering from the goofy nonsense of the election cycle because people won’t
John-Nelson Pope: talk to each other.
Neil Robinson: Mm. I think the first episode in December, not, Excuse me. What’s that first episode in December when y’all should do it. Okay. Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna play around with that. So you, we just foreshadowed you, You’ll know one of the show tops coming up. .
Finally we’ll get foreshadowing, not, not a week before, two days before
Adam Cloninger: I Unless Chris
Chris Gazdik: Procrastinates, and then what he’s referring to is I frustrate these guys doing my show prep. Like sort of, you know, I mean, I, I’m, you know, I’m not late. I’m on time [00:14:00] perfectly in my head Anyway, let me sound off before we get too far. So these ads that go in North Carolina are about a very serious topic.
And what the ads have been doing is portraying her in a way where she is weak on crime. Right? That’s the, that’s what they’ll level with her, and it has a lot to do with sex offenders and the sex offender world. That we have really launched into has a lot to do with you know, pornography and online engagement and our developing knowledge and understanding of sex addictions and all of this sort of thing.
But what is portrayed that I want to really rail on and misspell a serious myth that is out [00:15:00] there about this is the way that the ad portrays is that she wants to allow these criminal minded, evil creatures back on the street, week on crime and allowing them to give back onto social media where your kids are on as well.
And the reality of it. There are so many people that, and I’ve had ’em in my office, I’ve worked with this issue that have nothing to do with children. It it, it is the, the perpetual fear mongering that you hear with politics. And I just have a platform and I decided, Oh, this is controversial. I’m sure I’m gonna piss some people off by kind of talking about this a little bit in the way that I am, but it’s completely unnecessary.
The reality of it is these, these men and women, by the way, it’s not just dudes that have sex crimes, have all sorts of things that are going on in their individual circumstance and don’t necessarily [00:16:00] need to be shuffled off into prison for five years because they’re, they’re some perceived to be, you know, a complete pedo.
Now pedophilia is a thing. It’s a real thing and it’s a horrible thing because there’s a lot of recidivism in that particular issue. Mm-hmm. , they will re-offend and re-offend and reoffend, and that’s the type of sex crime that we did almost exclusively in our culture up until about 10 15. John, I’ll be curious if we you 20, 20 years ago, over
Neil Robinson: 20.
Thank you, Neil. It’s actually more 30. Yeah. Back in literally nineties, the Adam Walsh shacked and stuff like that was kind of the big, and I think John Wetterling is another one that basically, like, that was the big things back then. Right. And
Chris Gazdik: initiated and,
John-Nelson Pope: and then you had later was the, the daycare, the childcare scandals that were Right.
Sent Satanic.
Chris Gazdik: Right. And of course we know that we’ve covered on the show before the Roman Catholic circumstances Yeah. With priests and all. So, but nowadays there’s so many other things [00:17:00] that are con, you know, happening with people that, because people are dealing with the current present day issues that we don’t really have time to totally go into.
And we probably do a whole show on that. But it, it, the, the fear mongering of this particular issue and demonizing of these folks that get caught into, you know, the pornographic system, which, which overwhelms a person as being completely just pedophilia. Preying on kids and going after them on social media sites is, that is not correct.
That’s not the way to portray it, and it’s not the way to legally engage in the, in the circumstances gonna piss people off with that one, I’m sure. Please feel free to send me an email and we’ll we’ll go back and forth on this one a little bit if you’re interested. Contact at through a therapist eyes.com.
Nobody has to say anything about this. If you guys got thoughts, I’d be, be curious. Any, any thoughts you want to add or
Adam Cloninger: share or think? I don’t trust any of the politics, any of the politician commercials or anything.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, Yeah. There’s a lot [00:18:00] of nonsense that gets thrown around for for sure.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, it, it does do a level of extremism when they, when they say this and, and that’s may not be what Beasley’s obviously not saying and she’s doesn’t have a record on that in terms of that type of, of, of saying, I’m gonna let somebody off or have the revolving.
Well, and I, I, I think they’re playing up on the fears of cashless bail and Right. That sort of thing. Right.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. Right. Which would be completely separate. But I mean, the, the re the reality is, with the studies of the registry, the studies of everything that’s happened since it was implemented 30 years ago, it’s all false.
The, you look at the recidivism as one of the lowest for offenders, it’s one of the lowest out of any type of criminal activity. Right? Which they don’t, they don’t realize. Most of the people who actually get caught with it, it’s first timers and they’re close to the person. Very few [00:19:00] are social media, random stranger.
It’s, there’s, so these, all of these fears that these politicians do, it’s unwarranted and it’s not true. And it, there’s been many cases where there’s been a lot of pushes for these politicians and experts have to come in and basically debunk and say, Look, these studies you’re doing are not accurate. One of the biggest studies was basically like very vague and gen and generalizes that they.
Up to 20, you know, 20%. But it wasn’t a scientifically proven study. It was all just false. The guy who actually wrote, like, it’s been disproved. And so that’s the thing where it goes back to fear mon. It’s like even when you look at, you know, like right now with a lot of the gender stuff, there’s a lot of fear Monering on that side saying they do all these horrible things to these kids and those gender affirming stuff that’s about grooming, right?
So, so there’s all these things out on both sides. It’s a fear monering political tactic that does nothing good for those that they’re serving. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: ITSs the problem and that’s what the myths that are out there about
Neil Robinson: the issue. Yeah. And, and that’s where, and I think that’s when I [00:20:00] started getting into politics, looking at it like 10 years ago.
I literally like spent. Two hours and I’m like, I’m done. Like . When you see both sides of it, like, I don’t know who’s right, it’s, they’re both exaggerated and it’s just horrible. But yeah, in this case it’s, it’s so far fetched. It’s the studies are showing that what Beasley would be doing if she’s being softer on the, those that are of those types of crimes is actually more accurate.
What a now more accurate punishment, you know, because, But you also have to look at, there’s no, very few states have a tiered sex offender. System, right? So someone who statutory rate because they were 18 and the girlfriend was 16 or 15, or someone who basically urinated in public is still an offender versus someone who literally like took advantage of a young kid.
You know? So, so that’s part of the issue. So you’re bundling a wide range of people into the same thing. Someone who basically got, you know, hit someone at a bar is basically the same guy. Would be, That’s to classify someone who just hit someone with like
Chris Gazdik: assault. Is it, is it put in, you know, public [00:21:00] urination is in the sex offender category now.
It is, yeah.
Adam Cloninger: Chris is worried now. I know, right? .
Neil Robinson: But so, so that’s, that’s the hard part about is there’s some states are tiered, some, a lot of states are not. And so you’re grouping everyone together. Yeah. Teenagers, your son’s. Chris, if you had a, if your son had a girlfriend of my son and a girlfriend and they got sent a picture, the girlfriend could be labeled as a producer and they could be labeled as a possessor of, He’s
Chris Gazdik: calling as we speak
Neil Robinson: So, but that’s the reality. And that’s, that’s why these laws don’t, aren’t accurate and they need to be addressed. And so someone like, well, I probably don’t agree with a lot of her other stuff. The fact that she’s actually trying to do correct af based on the studies of what’s going on, that needs to be addressed and it needs to be looked at because there are people who are offenders that the laws are affecting them more than what, what they were convicted for, you know?
And so, Just something to think
Chris Gazdik: about. You know, it’s a lot there and, and let’s get to the month in review, but I, [00:22:00] I, I just so y’all know, in the audience, I did not prep these guys for that. I did not you know, deal. I, I, I just went on a limb cuz I decided it was,
John-Nelson Pope: are you gonna get it to do unsubscribe?
Chris Gazdik: Who knows, man. I mean, honestly. But you know what, when it, when it comes to things that, that I feel like really need to kind of be spoken to, I don’t have any problem using this platform to do that as long as we’re doing and respectful and appropriate and accurate and scientific way. Mm-hmm. , you know, cuz that’s what we do.
We work with this stuff, you know, all, all the time. So let’s move to the segment of what was the most interesting show, Neil and Adam’s debate. I like that way. I’m thinking and setting. So we got the panel review, we’ve got mar foundations of marriage, We’ve got emotions day to day, and then we’ve got the religious trauma.
What do you guys think?
Neil Robinson: So [00:23:00]
Adam Cloninger: the religious trauma thing, I don’t think I’ve actually heard that yet.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, it was really good. So that was
Adam Cloninger: is, is, is
Chris Gazdik: is that on Spotify yet? Of course it was. That might not be released. Did I screw up? I’m getting used to this platform. Is that on Spotify yet? Is it not?
Neil Robinson: Not out. I didn’t hear that. No, that, that is scheduled for Monday.
Okay. But neither of you could choose, so that’s not me procrastinating. It’s just not out yet.
Adam Cloninger: Call it what you
Chris Gazdik: want to . That was my screw up. So we’re only supposed to have three shows that I have all four, didn’t I? Yeah, we actually talked about this
Adam Cloninger: the other day. Remember we said it wouldn’t have the, the third episode wouldn’t
Chris Gazdik: be the Yeah, we did well, but I didn’t, I just leave me alone.
Just choose one. So
Adam Cloninger: with that in mind, I, I like the emotion.
Neil Robinson: I, I thought the religious trauma one was really good, but I think the emotion was, cuz I think I’ve heard so many marriage stuff being on the show like EFT again, you
Adam Cloninger: know, he’s sick of it. Oh, by the way, you’ve done good without me. I noticed that you kept on [00:24:00] like telling what acronyms were
Chris Gazdik: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Well I got that. I was like, yeah, he did. Good job. He, That’s
Adam Cloninger: awesome. Okay.
Chris Gazdik: Appreciate that. Yeah, good job. Appreciate that. Yeah, it’s funny that you say it that way. I hope you’re listening my buddy Adrian, because I got feedback and that was one of the things he said like, look, you said aft, we don’t know what aft is.
You. I said, so I, I did. All right. Yep. Yeah, good. Evidently I still need to improve though, or we, John, we need to improve. Oh, definitely. So, so you’re tired of the EFT stuff cuz you’ve heard a lot of it on the show. No, I just
Neil Robinson: think it’s fun cuz every time I bring it up, my wife hates the terms that are used.
The abandonment engulfment, she hates those terms. Oh, she does? Oh, she hates the words that the. They’ve picked. She’s like, those are such negative words to pick. So the people
Adam Cloninger: who have not seen or know what EFT is, why don’t you go ahead and tell ’em what EFT is now?
Chris Gazdik: Well, emotion focused therapy people, you have to listen to the show and you’ll get, Well, they might not know, maybe
Adam Cloninger: they haven’t seen
Neil Robinson: that or, Well, we’ll review it a little.
There’s enough shows they’ll find enough with EFT in there because it is so important. It is. It is about, you know, everyone’s you know, that foundation of what they’re like, you know, [00:25:00] like we’ve talked about it. You have kind of your characteristics or personality. But when it comes down to brass tack, This is what your personality’s going to lean towards.
Either you’re gonna be an abandonment or engulfment. And so it is so crucial to, in understanding how we interact with each other, especially in times of stress. You know, that’s, I think that’s one of the best things about it that I’ve gotten from the shows. So, but I do think the how emotions, you know, affect your day.
People need to understand that As someone with a teenager, I’ve seen his emotions through a day and I’ve seen like him practicing. Yeah. How it dictates what he does. So I think that was a very good show that people need to go back and watch because they need to understand that, you know, what you’re, how you’re being affected by your day and what’s going on really changes your perception and, and how you react to it.
I liked how you
Adam Cloninger: took it back to the very basic about the, the, the. And hearing the mother’s voice and stuff. I liked how you had to that and like, going back to that comfort thing. I I, I like that, that was a good way to
Chris Gazdik: describe that. Yeah, [00:26:00] I remember that, that point. And actually that was that w the, again, I forget the name of the movie, Casey was right on it.
Right? They the the cartoon movie that depicts Oh, Inside Out. Inside Out. Yes. Yes. It, it, it is a super cool way to understand that. Were they in the brain or something? I didn’t, they were totally in the kids’ experience emotionally in her brain or in her body, basically. Yeah. And, and they’re evidently going to do another one with the teenage brain, which honestly I can’t wait to see.
That is so entertaining.
Neil Robinson: It has to be more chaotic, I’m sure.
Chris Gazdik: Way. Like the buttons, would they have one for sadness, one for anger, one for worry, I think is what the, the, the, the three buttons they have for a five year. Another one with peanut butter on it. Can tell what it is. probably say it just gets pushed randomly, but but the teen’s gonna have like 15 buttons, man.
I mean, they’re gonna have to have a lot of characters right. in the, in the, in the, in the show. Inside.
Neil Robinson: Inside. I think there’re gonna be a lot of combined characters cuz it’s like they’re angry and they’re sad or they’re happy and they’re like, like
if you’re happy and you’re sad.
Adam Cloninger: And Well, [00:27:00] you talked about that too though.
You talked about the combined emotions in that show.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. So is that, is that where you landed at Adam as well? Mm-hmm. ? Yep. Cause I was, sorry, I was responding to my, my kid called and I always pick up, but boy did he call it three times? So, Well, he called twice. That’s why I needed to text him back.
Cause I take that seriously. Yeah. When the kiddos call. So. Okay. Well that was an easy debate for you guys then you both landed on the emotions day to day, huh? Well, we’ll,
Neil Robinson: we’ll reach out to religious trauma next. Next
Chris Gazdik: review. We’ll pull that so I’ll have more shows next
Adam Cloninger: time.
Neil Robinson: Be I gotta get you a copy.
I just need need to get you a copy of it so you can listen to it. Okay. So that way, you know, Well it
Adam Cloninger: was on Facebook Live
Chris Gazdik: though. Well, it’ll
Adam Cloninger: be, eventually It is on Facebook Live. Okay. That’s where I heard part of it. Cause I heard, I heard y’all, you, you two were talking about it. Right. Okay. So I heard part of it, but not all of
Chris Gazdik: it.
Again, listening audience, we will get our routines together, . So, all right, let’s go through the shows a little bit. And John, the first two, you were not there for. Or the, the last two, of course you were there for the, for the panel one. So [00:28:00] I’m really kind of curious. That’s kind of why he’s here to see what his view is on some things.
And so as I explained, it’s gonna be a, a little bit different this time, but the, the panel introduction, I think was the first one that we did. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And, you know, to me, I just thought that was really kind of cool to, to, to begin a new process and all. I mean, I’m curious what that was like for you, John.
Well,
John-Nelson Pope: I was, I, I found it very pleasant. I found it everybody was very engaging and kind to one another. Mm-hmm. and I don’t wanna sound like Pollyanna on that, but it was, I had a, a good time and, you know, I, I’m sort of aware of the mic a bit. Yeah. And I do tend to go like
Chris Gazdik: this. Yeah. We were making fun of it when the mic’s
John-Nelson Pope: come up, but.
But after a while, you get less and less aware of that. Oh yeah. And then you get into the conversation. And then some of the things, I think particularly with Casey and I, we were going back and forth a little bit in terms of, [00:29:00] of, of some of the thoughts. She’s, she’s quite, Oh,
Chris Gazdik: she’s the point. She is, she is sharp.
Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: I told you, And I was thinking she could do a dissertation
Chris Gazdik: on something. She can, She, she is a very, very sharp therapist. And you know, the phrase that I do, you know, this is the human emotional experience and we’re figuring this out together. And I tell you, John, that’s gonna be super cool over the months to come and hopefully years to come.
Honestly, where we’re I’m? I, I feel like we’re gonna learn so much. The four of us. Exactly. Like doing this. You know, cuz we, we get, so after you’re younger, you know, Victoria being younger, you know, you’re still getting a lot of trainings and paying attention and doing a lot of, Well it’s interesting learning that from her eyes, it fantastically interesting.
Yeah. Cause it,
John-Nelson Pope: it, it’s, maybe there’s a, a sense that she hadn’t been jaded or, And by life poisoned
Chris Gazdik: by life poisoned
John-Nelson Pope: by, And yeah. No,
Adam Cloninger: she, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I’m
Chris Gazdik: kidding. I’m kidding. It’ll happen. I [00:30:00] know,
Neil Robinson: I’m kidding. But I think it’s also cool cuz like she’s so entrenched, Like she is like, you watch her and you watch her body language and I feel like she’s just like soaking into the sin as a sponge and she’s loving it, which is great to see as someone coming up like.
That’s really cool to see someone that excited about it, that young going into your guys’ field. So it’s cool to see that’s like, cuz that’s promising that this is someone that in 20 years what she’ll know and how she’ll adapt and how she’ll grow with her clients is gonna be really, really to see.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, it’s
John-Nelson Pope: very enthusiastic, huh?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I, I just see myself in that, like, it takes me back to when I was, you know, soaking up that information. I mean, I would ask questions and just want to learn and know and, and I still do that, don’t get me wrong at all. But that’s why I love supervising young clinicians and new clinicians and why I think the show is fantastic for, for clinicians kind of as well and, and even better now that we.
A panel because there’s, there’s a lot of stuff we’re thrown around. [00:31:00] You go ahead. I would,
John-Nelson Pope: well I was teaching a class and in, in counseling, it’s an intro class into counseling and they kept pumping. I don’t know, maybe they’re just like a lot of students and they say, Well, as long as he keeps talking, he won’t make us take a test or something like that.
But
instead, I’m sure they thinking it . Yeah, keep talking.
Let him talk, let him talk graduate school. But they were talk, they wanted to hear about some of the The cases that I had worked on, and Oh, it was probably be part of the class. Yeah. Yeah. And it was two and a half hours, three hours later, we were still telling stories and I’m, and, and listening and there’s, they’re kind of writing it down and putting it down enthusiastically.
Chris Gazdik: Well, it’s through a therapist’s eyes. Right, Exactly. And these are real situations that are, you know, I think people genuinely want to hear and understand. Yeah. So [00:32:00] where did we land? Okay. So with the panel, I think really where we landed was the variety that we have. Mm-hmm. , I introduced everybody and we got to know each other.
And really the, the diversity, I think, Neil, that you mentioned a, a newer therapist just beginning your career in Victoria. A, a clinician who’s probably on the latter part, but still the first half of her career. Mm-hmm. , and I’m definitely in the second half of my career. And you’re kind of towards the, the more end of your career.
Oh yeah. Right. He says, Oh yeah, Bri
John-Nelson Pope: last,
Adam Cloninger: not really. We had a guy that retired. That’s what he got actually said there in the
John-Nelson Pope: meeting. He said, I’ve been, I’m a retread. I’m not a retired person. ,
Chris Gazdik: I’m a retread. Yeah. Yeah. So that, but that lends for excellent diversity through our eyes in what we have seen in our travels and the different stages that a clinician is in.
So that’s, that’s where we, where we landeds. [00:33:00] Go to the foundations of, of marriages. So yeah, Neil, I mean, this is a cool show, I think, you know, in the way that we’ve covered it over the months and we’re gonna continue doing that because it really, to me, John, emotion focused therapy, just, I use it in individual therapy as much as I do couples counseling that I do, you know, how people operate in close attachments is what it’s all about.
And, and I’ll remind you, if you listen to episode 11. Or 1 0 1 and 2 0 1, you will have an excellent understanding because first whole half of that show that was me, Victoria, and Casey, really just talking about their views on marriage and the foundations of it and, and how it operates. Right. So I’m curious, John, from your perspective, do you know emotion focus therapy?
Do you use Gottman stuff?
John-Nelson Pope: I have. [00:34:00] I don’t use it very much. I kind of have a different perspective, but Wow.
Chris Gazdik: See, that’s why I wanted you on the show. You’re getting it out. I know, right? We’re about to You’re getting it out. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Well, you know, you gotta understand I have a theological education, so I, I view things differently a little bit in terms of from that.
But I also I like Gottman. I like. What, what is behind that? I’m more in involved in terms of, of, let’s say the relational. I Imago.
Chris Gazdik: Pardon? Imago.
John-Nelson Pope: Imago.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. So Imago therapy is, What’s the nutshell? Just the nutshell. John, can you
John-Nelson Pope: No, I can’t say. Is it hard to, It’s in the image of, so in other words, imago means image.
Okay. Okay. And so that’s, that’s a Greek word, but I really think in terms of
Chris Gazdik: we’re, Wait, okay. Let me, What I’m saying is, I thought you [00:35:00] were saying similar relational base for couples counseling, such as in imago therapy. Is that not what you’re saying? Or you are saying
John-Nelson Pope: that? Well, I am, to a certain extent.
I’m more in involved in terms of being in the image of God. Okay. In terms of relationship and seeing how God would see us. Okay. In that relationship with one another. And so I would say Imago in that.
Chris Gazdik: So, okay. So a mago therapy for the listening audience is a type of therapy where you engage in kind of a, i I think it’s kind of relational in the way that they operate.
It is and it’s some really neat stuff in how you pick your partner. And I, I, I’m not as well versed in it to give much more of a, so I won’t try, other than, you know, how you pick your partner and how that life experience kind of plays into what you’re comfortable with, what you’re familiar with.
And then Amul therapy looks to break out the different functions of your perception and implicit biasness mm-hmm. and stuff like that. So that’s the, that’s the nutshell. But, but get going [00:36:00] further. I, I think I interrupted you then. No,
John-Nelson Pope: no, that’s fine. I, I just I, I, when I, when I work with couples and. I would, I would say I would look in terms of the systems that that are in,
Chris Gazdik: Well, that’s social work systems theory.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, systems theory. Yeah. I mean, we did a lot of Don Jackson mri Oh gosh. Why? Can’t think of his name, but he did the cybernetics. I don’t know. Yeah. But, but one of the, one of the things in terms of, of systems is what, I’m sorry. Riel. Mental Research Institute. I’m think
Adam Cloninger: of a different thing.
All
John-Nelson Pope: right. Sorry. Mri, like being in a big X-ray machine.
Adam Cloninger: No, I was, I was thinking of something else.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. There we go with the acronyms. Right. Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Sorry about that.
Chris Gazdik: So, so what would you, what do you, what would you use the, the relational aspect when you’re sitting down with couples and you know, [00:37:00] the foundations there of what you’re after.
Like
John-Nelson Pope: how much do they, how much do couples listen and react and think of how I can serve you and meet your needs. And also that person, the other person reciprocating. And so it’s not, you have to show attention to me as much as how I can serve you and how I can be in relationship with you. Okay.
And so it’s a give and
Neil Robinson: take. You, you know, my wife and I just had this conversation about schools and stuff and how a lot of it’s, it seems like it’s more about me and like, what’s going on with me versus that outward, like, how do I help someone else or how to, And it’s just, we’re kind of like, I feel like there’s too much of what about me and trying to fix me.
And I, I’m more with you, John, that I think in a relationship it’s more about how do I server, what can I do to benefit my significant other? Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s missing in today’s society. [00:38:00] Is that, that key piece
John-Nelson Pope: of it? Well, it, there’s the self-centeredness which keeps you from being able to to, to actually have you be aware.
Of what it is to be in a, a relationship or to walk in another person’s shoes. I think that if you’re so self-centered, you can’t think, you’re not, you’re so circumscribed by that, that you are not open to another person trying to, to, to share with you their lives. And so you get, you can feel very isolated if you’re, if, if it’s always about you.
So
Neil Robinson: I, I would be intrigued to have a show about this, cuz this is a little bit different from the EFT side. I’d be, I would love to see John lead at, just to get that take on it. Cuz I feel like when you talk about eft, you do try, you do cover the idea, Oh, they’re like this. So I have to be understanding of it.
So there is an awareness of the other [00:39:00] person, but I think there is still about a lot of it is, Here’s who I am and how do I adjust or work with myself versus how do I really want to serve the other person. So I’m intrigued to see like what the panel would say about this type of a, Cuz I know Casey’s big fd too, so I’d be intrigued to see like if John lead it, like what kind of what, what that conversation would look like.
Yeah,
Chris Gazdik: indeed. Well, let me,
John-Nelson Pope: let me get, It’s not marriage, but it’s meeting Mother Teresa for example. And I had we, Mother Teresa came to Sumit Bay
Chris Gazdik: in the Philippines. Like for real? You met her? Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. You met Mother Theresa. Yeah. That’s cool. My dude . Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. Okay. This is honest truth. Okay.
We get invited to the priest house after the service that Mother Teresa led. She came to start a, a mission. Of, of charity, The, the [00:40:00] missionaries of charity in Subic Bay. This was 1987. And she comes and she talks and then we go to the house and she sits down at a couch and my wife gets to sit next to her.
She talks
Chris Gazdik: to my wife Julie. Got to hang out with Mother Teresa also. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: My, a Marine Sergeant, Bob Byer says, Mother Teresa, can I get you some tea? And she says, No, I would like to serve you
Chris Gazdik: first. Right. Okay.
John-Nelson Pope: Okay. Now the point is she’s serving other people. And Bob Beyer is serving other people. Right?
And so that’s that mutual sense in marriage that you do that.
Chris Gazdik: So, Wow. Yeah. So you’re, you’re talking, so where you land almost to a certain extent, is the foundation of marriage. John Pope would [00:41:00] say is John, Yes. Pop indeed. Pope John . John Pope, the therapist would say the foundation of marriage is in essence service, service to
John-Nelson Pope: one another, to one another.
And so that’s why you get this false thing. It says, Well, the man is the head of a household misunderstanding entirely. It’s all about from Ephesians, Ephesians, it’s serving one another. And so you don’t, you, the guy doesn’t say, You know, you’ve gotta do this for me. And the, the gal doesn’t say, You know, you have to, to sit at my beck and.
Instead, what happens is you serve each other. Right. Can you anticipate that? And that increases communication. And so feelings don’t get hurt as much. It’s not a perfect world. You still have arguments.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. And yeah, I, you know, on the show I’ve shared, and I, I really, John, I, I was just [00:42:00] sort of, it was foundational in the way that I see things when I came across Gottman’s, emotion focused therapy stuff.
So much so that I’ll use it as I said, in individual counseling, because prime previous to that, I was really looking at like, what are the patterns that are in place? What are people doing, you know, to, to perpetuate a cycle that they’re in. Mm-hmm. . But, but until Gottman stuff, I, I wasn’t pinpointing Yeah.
What exactly patterns and cycles occur. And I think the abandonment and the engulfment cycle pinpoints what those very, very common. Patterns are, and the terror that it, that it evokes. Right. So to me it, it’s, it’s really like, it’s very much on point. Sounds like they, I mean, they go together. I mean, do you have a problem with Gottman stuff or it’s not Yeah.
Right. Absolutely not. It goes together a lot with what it is that you’re, you’re kind of talking about, I think, right? Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I didn’t get to get to when we did that particular [00:43:00] episode that I think is important that I get questions about all the time is, can’t you be both right?
So you got the abandonment side, you got the Engulfement side, and can you, can you you know, be both and I just don’t think that you are, are you familiar with Gottman stuff? Yes. Yeah. Yes. So I, I, I don’t think that you can land when the, when, when you get. Into an elevated triggered state, you land on the side that you most commonly operate with when you’re in a fear or fight stance.
Right. And so we do have both characteristics. Mm-hmm. , you know, but when that gets to it, you know, when, when you know the shit hits the fan, you very much then move to either the engulfment side or the abandonment side. Mm-hmm. . And I’m surprised that a lot of times people have a hard time understanding sort of even which side they’re, they tend to have tendencies towards.
So does that make any sense to you? Yes, it does.
John-Nelson Pope: [00:44:00] Now let me ask you this, and this is just clarification. Yep. But if you’re a pursuer what happens in that, with that couple is that there will be a distancing. Is that right? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Go back and forth, back
Chris Gazdik: and forth. And it doesn’t matter who goes first, if you’re the distancer.
Then the abandonment person is gonna jump at you and pursue. Or if you start pursuing hard, then the distancer going to, you know, back away and, you know, create their space and put up the walls and that sort of thing about learners
John-Nelson Pope: stuff. The, the dance of anger, the dance of intimacy, right. And all that. Again, the dance that’s going on.
So Gottman has that dance.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that’s what I find, you know, from theoretical basis, I find that things match up. Uhhuh, , you know, these thought leaders on things. There’s parallels, there are very much parallels with the ideologies or perspectives that, that kind of really match.
Adam, I’m wondering [00:45:00] what your theoretical view is on the emotion, relational. Are you with us? I’m
Adam Cloninger: with you. Yeah,
Neil Robinson: I’m with you. Are, are, are you abandonment or in a engulfment? .
Chris Gazdik: Oh, he is asking you directly. Putting you on the spot. I couldn’t tell you. What do you mean you couldn’t tell me? I couldn’t tell you.
Are you
Adam Cloninger: freaking kidding me? I wouldn’t think I’m abandonment. I mean I don’t think I have walls either. So
Chris Gazdik: I, I, we’ll talk later. Say it does say
John-Nelson Pope: either or in, in that it gives you that indication or, or that sense that it’s abandonment or, or, or
Chris Gazdik: engulfment. Well, this is what we didn’t get the cover on the show and it, and it really kinda is, I have worked with this a lot and I find that people very much go to their.
Go to, you know, when And so Adam, you don’t have to answers to No, no, I’m fine. I just, I don’t, But when, when he ask Julie ,
Neil Robinson: that’s, I was gonna say that. I was like, Julie, comment on Facebook. I,
Adam Cloninger: I’m sure
Chris Gazdik: she’s typing right [00:46:00] now. She’s probably typing. Because honestly, you know, Adam, what you could think about is when, when you get into an argument or when you get upset, when you get into a state, you know, you feel it, right?
Like you, your adrenaline starts kicking, cortisol starts going, I mean, you get, when you get worked up, when you get heated, you know, what do you do? Do you tend to want to talk more and engage and, you know, work it out and have long conversations about it, you know, and, you know, 15 minutes to an hour to two hours and you’re still wanting to talk and talk and talk.
Or when you get worked up and you get, you know, in a, in a state, you know, when you get a little heated, do you shut down and move back? And
Adam Cloninger: I can see me doing both. It just depends on what it is. Cause sometimes, like if you, if you don’t know what to say, sometimes you just need that time just to kind of process.
Chris Gazdik: We people do not process. We need to talk. Yeah. So you’re
Neil Robinson: engulfment.
Adam Cloninger: Yeah, but wait a minute. After I get, after I get processed,
Neil Robinson: I wanna talk about it. Okay. Well, but the fact that you have to process, I, it doesn’t, I’m
Adam Cloninger: not always like that though. It depends what it is. I mean, if it’s something I’m
Chris Gazdik: like, [00:47:00] I don’t really understand.
Worked up, Okay, what is your go to? I want to talk about this right now to figure it out, or I need to think about it. I need to process it and then I’ll come back to you.
Adam Cloninger: I think I wanna process it right? It’s a
Chris Gazdik: fundamental difference right now when you’re not worked up, you’ll talk, you’ll engage, you do whatever. But, but that’s John, That’s what I found with people and thank you for that and your genuineness to, to do that even on the air because people really struggle to understand.
And, and, and here’s a big piece that we also didn’t get to talk a lot about the internal process that you go through. That’s what needs to be managed in marital relationships. Not the I’m gonna fix my partner, if my partner would do something different, would be better. It’s it’s an internal reality. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: You know, it, it’s interesting. I was thinking in my own experience with, with, in my perfect life, [00:48:00] so . Wow.
Chris Gazdik: I, I wish I didn’t
John-Nelson Pope: know. No, I definitely not. It’s good to be, but I’m, I’m abandonment and I, I, that has been a pattern all my life. Right? Absolutely. And my wife is more of the engulfment and so she wants to figure this out.
And so she’ll come at, like, once we got into an argument and I wanted to leave and I got into the car and took off, and before I took off, she went to the car and put her hands down on the top of the, the hood. Wow. And says, You’re gonna talk to me, John Nelson . And you know, I,
Neil Robinson: So you’re engulfment cuz you don’t like being engulfed.
Right. That’s how I don’t like being engulf, you know? Right. So she’s abandonment. You’re en golf met. Right. So yeah. She doesn’t like to be. Right. Right. And so it’s, it’s a really weird term. We think that was on the discussion. It’s just the opposite. Right? It is.
Chris Gazdik: So,
Neil Robinson: yeah. So I’m with you, John. I would do the same thing where like, I would much rather [00:49:00] lock myself into an office when we get in a fight or just go, I’ve, I’ve been known to literally like just leave the house and go for a walk or ride my bike or
Chris Gazdik: something because I just, and I’m like, I like, I’m gonna put my hands on the car, I guess and you know, and like I, Yeah man, we need to talk about it.
We can’t nobody part and separate and like, I’m worked up, you’re worked up. We gotta fix this. Like, you’re gonna talk to me now. Yeah, right. That’s anban in perspective. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for Neil for that. Cuz I was kind of thinking the same thing. I’m like, wait a minute, John. Like, right. Yeah.
That’s Adam. That’s the thing, when we get heated, when something’s going on, not when you’re calm. And like dating, you know, abandonment, people are able to like, Oh, cool. Call me whenever you want. Talk to me. It’s fine. We can talk later. And that’s because they’re managing their emotional self. Mm-hmm. and the Engulfment people are like, Sure, we can have these long, lovely conversations and deal with all this emotion because they’re internally managing themselves and, and, and [00:50:00] bringing themselves to the point of being able to do that.
But when it gets hot, when it gets heated mm-hmm. , you’re, you’re gonna wanna jump in the car and run away or stop the car and, and make the
Adam Cloninger: other person. I still say it’s not just cut and dry. I mean, cause it, I mean, well, I mean, a lot of people feel that way. Well, I mean, I can think of like in past relationships when, you know, get really angry about something.
Oh yeah, I’m ready to talk about it, but it’s not gonna be.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, well, and it probably would’ve
Adam Cloninger: been best if I just walked away and let it, you know, kind of stew down. But it, it just depends. Animat
Chris Gazdik: people, we gotta talk about it now. All right, we gotta move on though, because of time. So you guys, I’m curious, Adam, and, and, and Neil, it was the one that you were thought was the most interesting.
We talked a little bit about it on the front end, but it is, Neil, I agree with you, really important to understand the emotions on the day to day and what’s really going on with what you experience and what the emotions are doing for you. What did, what did you think, [00:51:00] What’d y’all think about that?
Take, take it from there a little bit. Adam and, and Neil. I didn’t set that up so great. Did I? Can you imagine ways that emotions in listening to that show operate in your day to day? Like you, Do you think about it in those, those kind of terms? Well, I mean there’s, because therapists do, I could tell you.
Well,
Adam Cloninger: I mean, there’s also times that I can say, and I’m sure everybody in this room can say, when you’ve been like, your spouse or whatever, girlfriend or whatever, might say, Well, why you Ill today? And you’re like, I don’t know. I’m just mad. I’m having a bad day. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I guess there’s a cause for that and you’re trying to deal with something, but sometimes it’s not so cut and dry what you’re, what’s perturbing you.
Neil Robinson: Yeah. I, I think that’s very important to address because I feel like there’s a lot of people that like, It. We, I think we talked about in the triggers, you know, when something happens, like something could happen where like someone could cut you off on the road and like Chris might not do anything, but you know, Adam, [00:52:00] it just really sets him off because possibly he had some where his, Yeah, his dad was a bad driver and he got an accident.
Like, and it’s that kinda stuff like, why are you triggered, why do you, why, why does this happen and why are you reacting that way? And I think there’s a lot of people that go with the excuses. I, this is just the way I am.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, oh, why? That’s a good point. How, how did
Neil Robinson: you get to this way, the way that you are?
And I think that’s the part that people have to understand. It’s like you react the way you react. Excuse. Yeah. You react the way you react for a, it’s rational reason. What’s the reason behind this? And that’s why I think people would need to address, like why does when my husband, you know, bites his fingernails?
It just drives me crazy outside of being nasty habit or . You know, why? Why, Yeah. For the quick. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that’s, I think that’s a great thing that people need to think about. It’s like, why is this thing causing me so much turmoil? Or, Or even the other way, you know, like, why does this make me so happy?
What about this? This gives me that dopamine fix. What about it really do I like? Because that helps you kinda understand one, if you’re in a relationship, [00:53:00] explain it to them why this is good, or this is. Not just because I’m an emotional wreck, but here’s why. But then also it’s like you learn to manage it.
You know, we’ve talked about with those emotions. That’s part thing is like you don’t stop feeling emotions. You learn how to manage those emotions and you have to understand the history behind it. So I thought it was great cuz more people need to understand that cuz it’s not just, this is who I am. Yeah.
We talked
Chris Gazdik: about, you know, how, how they operate, what, what purpose they served. Like, you know, where do the emotions really come from and, and how do they operate? Which, which is, gosh, with emotional intelligence, that’s a term that people use nowadays. You know, you’re gonna be on top of those processes. And I’ll tell you, I think people really, really struggle with one of you, as you even just said, right?
Like, you know, how, how, how do I feel today? Like, I don’t even know people. Yeah. You know where they’re at. Yeah. Happy, mad, glad or sad. That’s the level of their ability to identify, you know, where they are in any given point. And I gotta tell [00:54:00] you, there’s so much more that’s going on, like we don’t have time to get to it.
But I was thinking about getting up and grabbing my hand out that I forgot from the Adlerian conference, John, I was telling you about the, the idea, you’ll have to listen to the episode whatever it was, 2 0 3 to, to understand Adlerian therapy as what we talked about because the, the, the buddy, you know, to Freud who followed Freud up and, and gave us a lot of groundbreaking
John-Nelson Pope: understanding whom Freud excommunicated.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, yes, he did. Right. Like, yeah. It was a battle. There is, is the
John-Nelson Pope: list that the handout with emotions
Chris Gazdik: or Yeah. So feeling words. It was really cool, John, because at this conference it was one of the cool things, like I never keep the handouts anymore. I, I just don’t. But, but this was a, a, a handout that they used.
That listed all the emotions and instead of like the definition and we read ’em on the show, I think Casey picked one and Victoria picked one. And we used them as examples. But it, what [00:55:00] what it did is not define the emotion or help you understand what it is. It really helped you to, to lay out like, what is this emotion moving you to.
Mm-hmm. , like anxiety is moving you to an action. Depression is moving you to insight about, you know, something in your life. And it just, it goes on, It’s too much to explain, but it’s fascinating to see the way these emotions really evoke movement towards an Adlerian theory or an aary perspective really is a better word, the desired state.
Mm-hmm. like emotions are serving a purpose. There’s a reason why we have them. And we talked about how it communicates so much, and you were saying maybe before the mics came on, I don’t know when Adam, but you know, like a. In, in the Bloom. Yeah. I use
Adam Cloninger: an example you’ve used on this previous show that I actually liked.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Is literally communicating and you’re communicating without the symbols of words and babies [00:56:00] understand. You know, that stuff. It, it’s, it’s tremendously important in our, you know, in our, our human relationships. So John, I quoted you on the show Oh no. , if you remember Right. And so I was dying to get you on to, to be able to talk about it.
And we haven’t been able to land together a whole lot with what, what you talked about with the wait minute. Gimme a, I try to remember what it was, The manualized. So what was the quote that I, I did for you? Therapy has become so manualized, Right? And then you were gonna give an Arian technique.
That was specific. Do you remember? Oh, oh, oh. Think about it for for a second. Okay. And pull it back because I forgot too. With the foundations of marriage, the segment, where did we land? I know it’s so disjointed, but again, listening audience, we will get our routines together. We will get our crap with it.
Right? Where did we land with the foundation’s of marriage? I call the golden egg that we emotionally want universally, a close [00:57:00] and emotionally safe. Intimately close, emotionally safe space. Like that’s where, you know, we kind of landed with the foundations of, of theory as well. So, sorry about that. I needed to throw that in.
So do you remember, did you pull it back? Well,
John-Nelson Pope: I’m, I’m trying to, but was that spitting in the soup?
Adam Cloninger: The, the way I
Chris Gazdik: got think it? No, this was a conversation, Adam, in the hallway thing. I think it might’ve been, but it was
John-Nelson Pope: manualized, right? I, there, there’s one that,
Chris Gazdik: No, we were talking about Adlerian theory in theory and we talked about birth.
And you said, Oh, did they give you this technique and talk about the blah blah. Yeah. And that was spitting in, spitting in the soup. Right. So what is the Adlerian technique of spitting in the soup? I’m dying. Death. Well, I think part
John-Nelson Pope: of that is, is that with Adler, sometimes you did get uncomfortable. It’s not always feel good.
And so Well indeed, yeah, if you’re mostly it is doing therapy. If you’re doing therapy. It’s, and you’re really working at it, you’re going to be [00:58:00] discomforting. Yeah. You’re going to be unregulated. Un right. And so spitting in the soup is basically is that you’re going to spoil it so that you have to change a behavior, a future behavior that, that, in other words, behavior that is causing you to mess up or not to have a, a, let’s say it’s interfering with your relationship or with, with a parent or a child or a spouse and or, or somebody at work.
And so you’ve got to, to look at that and, and say, Okay, I’ve got to, I’ve gotta examine this even if it makes me feel uncomfortable. And so that’s in a sense,
Chris Gazdik: spitting. Okay. So the metaphor, who’s spitting in the soup in the process? The therapist or the client, or
John-Nelson Pope: both? Well, I think it’s both and, you know, Yeah.
I’ve looked at it both ways. I’ve looked at it, I’ve looked at it and from the idea the therapist can bring [00:59:00] it up and, and, and do this. Yeah. And use that as a technique himself, but also it’s an for
Chris Gazdik: herself. Herself. Right. , Sorry, sorry, . Just bust your chops.
John-Nelson Pope: again. I’m old. . So, and then you would do it mean, and then you do And, and, and, but also the client will learn how to do that themselves.
Themselves, because that’s when I was kinda enabled. And so, Okay. I’m not gonna be satisfied with, with, with what I’ve got right now because it’s not as, as I could do
Chris Gazdik: so much more. I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired and I want a new way. I’m gonna change of operating, I’m gonna change. Yeah. Yeah.
It’s interesting when you were talking about spitting in the soup and, and explaining meaningful change that’ll stay Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, from a therapist’s perspective, you know, we would guide that process sometimes and, you know, using the metaphor, spitting the [01:00:00] soup ourselves to purposely work with transference and different things that we do, you know, with our, the science.
But what, what my brain went to is exactly what you were just explaining . So cool. When, when, when the client, Right, We figure this out together. I say that for so many reasons, and this is another one of them. Like, when you’re in a therapy relationship with me, I’m not a sosay, I’m not reading tea leaves like, I don’t know your life.
I’m not an expert. There you are. And they can bring that and examine what are these emotions doing? I’ve thought about this, I’ve journaled this, or whatever is is helpful. And if it isn’t, how do I, how do I spit in it, change it uhhuh to, to affect a different, a more accurately desired state. Well, that’s the day to day of emotion.
Well said. Yeah. It it’s cool stuff. Yeah. It really is. Course you’re eloquent. Well, I, I don’t, I, I don’t, I am. No, I’m the many would say I’m not , but thank you for those kind words. Yeah. What did I [01:01:00] wanna cover with this? Yeah, that was what I had for sure. It was interesting in that show, and I know we gotta land here shortly, Casey and I got into, not outta debate, but do you remember that Neil?
Like we got into a little bit of back and forth and I think you even kind of thought like, oh we were, we’re disagreeing or whatnot. I don’t think we were, when we were kind of talking about emotions lying to us. You do you remember that much? Yeah. I
Neil Robinson: think, you know, cuz there is a B balance cuz your emotions are there for a purpose.
Right? But they also aren’t always accurate. Right. So it was really this kind of things that, like emotions are important. But then they do lie to you. And so I think it was kind of weird because I think you were talking about emotions are important and Casey was like, Yeah, but they lie . Right? So it’s kind of a weird, interesting conversation cuz it’s, there is a, emotions are something that are in built into humans to, for survival and literally, And so, but what you have to do is you have to say, Okay, nowadays our survival techniques are a lot different.
We don’t have [01:02:00] a lion hunting us and we have to make sure that we’re not gonna get attacked. And there’s, it’s a different, a different world we live in
Chris Gazdik: now and Absolutely. Than the primal experience of, of what we had. And it was funny because the, the, it was probably obvious, John, I was not eloquent in those moments because she kind of caught me in that.
I say that all the time. Emotions also lie to us. But I was fresh off the Adlerian. You know, looking at, at Alfred’s process and you know, and, and Alfred Adler, and you know him personally. I, no, I don’t know Alfred. Alfred and I are boys. You, Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He’s
Adam Cloninger: dead. But he’s on next
Chris Gazdik: week, he’s on the guest host.
Seance. . But it was, it, it, it felt like a difference, right? And so, yeah, we don’t go too long with it. But I, but I want to ask you, John, directly, it’s another reason why you were here for sure. This week, they have a purpose. They are created, [01:03:00] they communicate to us, and then they communicate to others moving us, as we were just talking about, even spitting in the soup to change, where they move us to a desired state.
But emotions also lie to us. I’ve said that many times, and I kind of fumbled because Casey said what I said many times, and it felt like it didn’t fully fit with Adler’s, you know? Process it, it feels like there’s a, there’s a disconnect there. And I wasn’t, I wish I would’ve been thinking about that all weekend at that conference.
And I, and I wasn’t d do you see the divergence or the d the differential, the, you know,
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah, I would agree. Everything that, that you all have said about emotions I agree with, but I also agree with the idea that they do lie at Right. And, and all the time. All right. And so you’ve got to be able to, to be on alert to that.
I would tell a story, but I mean, it was back when I was in seminary years ago and when [01:04:00] seminary did not turn out to be the place that very idealistic young men thought it would be. And cuz we were all supposed to love Jesus and all of that. And I, I remember that we had a Greek book. It was really, really, really hard.
And I put feel in big, bold letters on the Greek book. Okay. Because we were not feeling we, we weren’t allowed to feel it was all supposed to be in the head and all of that. And I. And I was kind of I made a big thing about that and that put me at odds with, with group. With the group. Right.
Chris Gazdik: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Right. That was the, that was the therapist in you Totally. A popping out. Yeah. Huh. Yeah.
John-Nelson Pope: Yeah. And already at that, at that stage. At that stage,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. Yeah. That’s pretty cool. So I could see that. I, Yeah, it is. So let’s wind this down by saying Yeah. I, I think you’re, you’re right. I mean, they, they, they, it, it, it works with both.
And, and [01:05:00] part of what we figure out together is which one of these things are lying to us? Creating belief structures and perceptions, Right. That are not helpful, destructive, and not true, and which ones are really moving us to a direction towards, you know, Adler’s desired state. You know, having that, having that purpose and the idea.
Biologically based conditions are also, when we talked about that a little bit on that episode, a part of what happens, like the brain chemistry does its thing mm-hmm. because of the genetic reality. Just as like, cuz you were born . Mm-hmm. is another factor. And I, and I remember one of the instructors at the conference kind of said, Yeah, there’s all these things mixed up in the whole process.
Like it’s a big cooking pot. He, he, he had said it’s a big stew. Right. Oh, and so he spat in the soup. Yeah. Well, he didn’t go there, John. When you brought up that technique and, and whatnot, and as I’m saying, and he now called it a big stew. That’s what he called it. That you’re right. Yeah. That’s probably where that, that came from.
So, man, your experience with that is so awesome. [01:06:00] Yeah, that’s, that’s neat stuff. So where did we land when it comes to the emotions and the emotional day to day? We landed on understanding emotions, communicate to ourselves and then to others, and they create movement, which gets us to that desired state, the basic tenets of, you know, ad Larry and stuff.
But as you can see with our little interlude here, I mean, it is a complicated deal. It is a complicated process. So that is the boys month in review. I tell you, it’s gonna be different, right? Yeah. Pretty
John-Nelson Pope: cool. I really enjoyed this because you, you were actually in I learned quite a bit.
Chris Gazdik: Is that crazy?
Yeah, yeah. Like it seriously, because
John-Nelson Pope: I, I said well, maybe I thought I knew this, but I didn’t necessarily. I,
Chris Gazdik: yeah, I mean this show, when we’re talking about these things, understand when you present something you’re learning. When you talk about something you’re learning and you know, that’s what, this is the human emotional experience.[01:07:00]
Al Ends was saying, We endeavor to figure this thing out together. So thanks guys for hanging with us. Guys. Will see you next week. We’ll have the panel back, all of us, cuz I think that we have our schedules kind of arranged and figured out. So you will see Victoria, me, John, and Casey bucking through a therapist side.
Take care. Have a good week.