In this episode of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we break down four go-to tools therapists use to help clients manage emotional distress and regain stability when life feels overwhelming. From redefining self-care as a core foundation for emotional regulation to building real-world resiliency skills like grounding, cognitive reframing, and the “STOP” technique, we explore how people can move from reactive patterns to intentional responses. We also dive into the power of mindfulness—learning how to slow down, stay present, and create space between emotions and actions—while connecting these practices to proven approaches like DBT and ACT. Whether you’re facing anxiety, anger, or everyday stress, this episode answers a critical question: what actually works in the moment—and how can you practice it before you need it most?
Tune in to see the Go-To Tools for Emotional Distress Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Think about these three questions as you listen:
- When emotional distress hits, what tools actually help people regain stability?
- Are there foundational strategies therapists rely on regardless of the specific diagnosis?
- What skills can people practice regularly so they are prepared when distress appears?
Links referenced during the show:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/S10608-012-9476-1
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1047840X.2014.940781
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/selfmanagement
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/mentalhealthtips
Chapter 1.14 | How do we handle stress?
Understanding stress management is fundamental to emotional resilience.Chapter 1.28 | Taking things in small pieces and having small goals makes big things easy
Breaking overwhelming problems into manageable steps reduces distress.
Chapter 31 | Say what makes you uncomfortable
Healthy communication is essential for emotional well-being in relationships.Chapter 31 | Say what makes you uncomfortable
Healthy communication is essential for emotional well-being in relationships.
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode #349 Transcription
Chris (00:01) Hello, this is Through Therapist Eyes and you have found us on March the 19th, the first day in the United States of America of March Madness, a phenomenon that we call basketball. How y'all feeling on March Madness opening day? John-Nelson Pope (00:18) I got basketball blues. I got basketball blues. ⁓ Kasie (00:21) Yeah. Chris (00:25) ⁓ That would be Mr. John Pope hanging out with us, sir. How are you? Victoria (00:26) Go team! Go sports! Kasie (00:27) It is. John-Nelson Pope (00:32) Yeah, hi, I'm doing all right, thank you. Chris (00:34) And Miss Casey Morgan, how are you? Kasie (00:36) Yeah, I'm doing well. March Madness, college basketball is my favorite thing to watch in the worldwide sport. Chris (00:44) I love that, and Miss Victoria Pendergrass. Victoria (00:47) Go sports. Chris (00:50) This is through a therapist's eyes where you get insights about mental health and substance abuse, understanding it's not ⁓ delivery of therapy services at any kind. We believe that mental health is important, one of the most important things in growing, more importantly as the days kind of roll by. We are actually licensed clinical therapists doing real clinical work every day, and this is where we do. We talk about what honestly and openly about what actually helps. So we are going to be talking interesting show today, I think. Following up as a little bit of a theme from boy the crew as a matter of fact It's cool to have you all together because crew hadn't been together for gosh. It's it feels like February, right? Yep, we had we had some heavy shows in February. We talked about abuse abuse of emotional abuse emotional neglect and we talked about sexual trauma on a Guest and did a part one on a part two. So last week we talked John and I John showed up Kasie (01:28) Yeah. Chris (01:52) And we talked about ⁓ peace, peace in mental health. And so I thought a nice follow up to this would be just a real generalized deal between the four of us about the go-to tools, I'm calling it, right? Therapists go to go-to tools for emotional distress. These are four health strategies, four mental health strategies, help clients is the full title. you know, really it's just sort of really through the therapist's eyes kind of idea, following the title of our whole platform, through our eyes, what really works. This will be an interesting thing to kind of see what are our go-tos and stuff. Now, I must say, usually we have show prep and stuff, and I think Casey, we saw yours a little bit. Victoria's on the gun, she said. So this is gonna be very, very genuine in the moment for Victoria, what she comes up with and how she comes at it. John, did you see this? Were you able to prepare it or we got ultra-genuineness in the moment with you? John-Nelson Pope (02:51) Ultra-genuine-ness in the moment, I'll do my best. Chris (03:00) I love that, you always bring it. And I know that you've got, I mean, all of the go-tos, you've been doing this for a minute. So look, we try to provide mental health strategies, blow up stereotypes, stereotypes, stereotypes and myths about mental health and substance abuse. Your job is to click subscribe. We haven't had a couple of new tube subscribers for a little bit, y'all. Now we need to get a couple more people, so tell a friend. Tell a friend specifically about an episode. John-Nelson Pope (03:07) Yeah. Chris (03:29) that you think applies to them because they are more likely to pull it up, check it out, and maybe get into the show because we do really want to help people. So this is you helping us help folks. We're on Apple. Or. Victoria (03:40) or or you can just take their phone and subscribe under their YouTube thing for them and then they'll just start then they'll just start getting videos and then they'll be like cool like what's this video Chris (03:49) Yeah, sure! John-Nelson Pope (03:53) Yeah, it's a little manipulative, yeah. Chris (03:55) Boy, we need to go back to the technology so Victoria and Yeah, let's let's think about that one a little bit, but I hear you saying I hear you saying All right. Listen seriously contacted through a therapist eyes calm listen, we fire up at about 615 630 on Thursdays we do YouTube lives so That is something that we love connecting with you on this is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together that is Kasie (03:55) What's this video? Victoria (03:58) you John-Nelson Pope (03:59) Control, Victoria (04:16) Okay. Chris (04:23) That is the deal. So I have two things. One, a current event that we probably should talk about a little bit. We haven't at all, I guess because we've been in other topics. But still in the intro here, I want to kind of highlight and point out, ⁓ I toot my own horn for a second. I've been putting a little bit of effort and energy and work into the posts of the shows. And I like the way that I've kind of been able to incorporate some links. And so it's on our website is where you get the links mostly. I don't know if it comes out on Spotify and YouTube and those types of platforms quite as much. It might, but definitely on our website is a place to go and check it out. Cause I'm putting in articles. There are some academic articles and things. mean, it really follows through with the theme of the show for that particular week. And then also usually there are links. that help you to find all of the different shows that are kind of on this topic that we are covering for that particular week as well because we have a lot of shows now. We're at, but what did I say? Is this episode 348 or nine? mean, yeah, think we have a lot of shows and that library goes back a little ways and you cannot get them on Spotify or Apple podcasts because they only go back so far. And I would tell you that the shows that we did early on are much more than relevant. Kasie (05:29) 49, 349. Chris (05:46) today. There are thoughts, are creation, there are add-on things. So if you go back in the archive, you'll find a lot of things there. ⁓ And then also on the website, you can buy us a cup of coffee. That is helping us out with the show. I don't mind saying, we need to make money, guys. We need to get some funds flowing in through Therapeuticize. And that is one way to support us. That is one way to help us. That is one way to help us improve, because we'd like to kind of continue bringing all of this to you. and we love having it as a free resource. So all of that being said, yuck on the current event, but we have not been talking about the Iran War, the Ukrainian War, the stuff going on in Lebanon. There's some real hotspots around the world and ⁓ we on the show here talk about current events because they're real in your lives. they're real in effect in your lives. you know, war is no joke. ⁓ It is, we all experience the vicarious trauma that comes through that. We all see the imagery on the, on the TVs and iPads and phones and crap. It's almost like it's on the New York billboard. You know, we, we, get exposed so much to, these things. You know, we've talked about the rapid pace of technology being in my view, the greatest challenge mankind has ever faced in the history of mankind. That is the way that I put it. And so when there's these hotspots around the world, we all see it. It's like we're all a part of it. And I can speak for myself, you know, being a Navy dad, a very proud Navy dad, go at them. Appreciate you serving us over there in Japan, man. It gives you a different flavor, man. It gives you a different feel. know, John, I know you're a Navy man yourself. ⁓ Thanks again for your service. ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (07:29) Yeah. Chris (07:41) It's a lot going on and I think we need to just pay a little homage, have some comments, kick it around for just a couple of minutes and acknowledge that, yeah. John-Nelson Pope (07:49) You know, I was thinking about the Marines that are, I'm sorry, about the Marines that are ⁓ shipping out from the Asian theater, ⁓ Asian Pacific theater, and they're going to, and it's an expeditionary force. And you get the idea that there may be an invasion. of or a landing that may be taking place probably on Karg. No, no, I don't know and Adam hasn't contacted me or anything like that. was just, but Karg Island, but they go out and they go on a floating hat box basically on a ship that is for Marines that basically. Chris (08:19) We do not have inside information. Just you know, we're not a news station. John-Nelson Pope (08:38) can do ⁓ landings basically. They can ⁓ make sure the landings happen and they have the equipment for that and the mic boats that would be able to go out and and do that or landing craft. And I think that's an issue that we have to worry that there may be, ⁓ we've been very blessed not having very many ⁓ casualties at this time, but it may be a different matter in a week and a half or two weeks. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, but I remember ⁓ Chris (09:12) At least the United States, other people have. John-Nelson Pope (09:22) ⁓ during times in which there has to be a deployment and it has to be sudden and ⁓ there's a lot of anxiety ⁓ and certainly with parents and spouses and so anyway I just that's my two cents worth. Chris (09:32) can only imagine. I appreciate that, John. And I know you, you know, it's interesting because you have had those experiences and you've talked with our, you know, men and women in the armed forces. And, you know, for those that don't know, John was a Navy Chappie. I like to think of you as Chappie. You know, he's a Navy chaplain and served that way. And so there's, there's real trauma going on, you know, the Russians are just human beings. If you have a view of the politics of one side or the other. John-Nelson Pope (09:58) Yeah. Kasie (10:05) Yeah. Chris (10:11) That's fine, but ⁓ everybody in that theater is a human being. And everybody has a mother, everybody has a father. A lot of people have a spouse. And I think that we need to embrace the humanity of it because we're really exposed. I think maybe it's being older and being more mature. Maybe for me, it's being a Navy dad. It begins to hit you more. John-Nelson Pope (10:33) And there's some jingoism, I think, that we have to be very much aware of. And there's also ⁓ prejudice, ⁓ maybe anti-Semitism on one hand, or anti-Muslim. ⁓ And it's interesting that ⁓ both Arab ⁓ ⁓ the Arabs and the Israelis, they speak ⁓ a very similar language. Chris (11:05) Yeah. Well, and John, just to piggyback on that or to highlight, they speak a similar language because again, they're humans. There's not a lot of difference between people from Lithuania and people from Sweden and people from Great Britain, Russia, China and West Virginia. Now, West Virginia folk are a little bit special. I must say that. I do got to throw that in there. Casey, Victoria, any thoughts before we move on? John-Nelson Pope (11:23) Yeah. Kasie (11:26) Correct. Correct. John-Nelson Pope (11:26) Yeah, they're backwards. They're backwards. Yeah. Kasie (11:34) Yeah, I just think that we just need to acknowledge the fact that if you're reading or tuning into this information that multiple truths can exist for you at the same time, right? Like you can have security concerns about you and your family's wellbeing and also view what's happening to others as a humanitarian crisis, you know? And I think that a lot of times our geopolitical interests intersect in ways that kind of make simple explanations for these things completely inadequate. And so we don't know what to believe sometimes because everything is being reduced to headlines that we often forget that there are, like you said, real people who are living with uncertainty and loss and disruption of every single day. I think about the families of those who are serving as well from both sides of the coin and what that must look like and feel like for them. But I think just in general as an observer from a distance, we do have a responsibility to stay informed with reputable resources and really kind of approach this thing with empathy and set of reactions. John-Nelson Pope (12:51) Yeah, you know, one of the things that, yeah, yeah, it's excellent. No, ⁓ I'm just thinking that we have so many different streams of information, ⁓ but there was at least in the past a bias in the news, but it seems now it's either or. You're on, we watch. Chris (12:52) Instead of reactions, that's such a challenge though. Yeah, I'm sorry John John-Nelson Pope (13:18) and read and devour the news for our particular political point of view. And so we don't get a balanced view. And that's part of the, that's difficulty, that's a challenge. Chris (13:33) And I always like to point out when people go to that, John, I'm not criticizing you by saying that that's a little bit of low hanging fruit because it's so easy to observe is what I mean by that. But that really is around the world. in America, we tend to be so egocentric and think that that's our issue, our problem. But it, as far as I can tell, I mean, I've only lived in North Carolina area, but I think that really extends worldwide. John-Nelson Pope (13:39) It's okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I saw that when I lived in the Philippines and I saw that in Great Britain. ⁓ That's right. Back then, ⁓ Reagan was a cowboy. That was his image. And he was a cowboy. And I would read that in the newspapers. And I'm going, you know, yeah, he got on a horse. He was from Illinois. Was he from Illinois? Why, near someplace like that? So. Chris (14:05) really? Back then? We Kasie (14:25) Yeah. Chris (14:25) did a lot of time in California, I think, but. John-Nelson Pope (14:28) Yeah, he did. Yeah. Kasie (14:28) But what a blessing it is to live in a country where we do have freedom of press that you are able to get more than just. one side if necessary, you know, and if wanted and desired when there are people who maybe even are listening to this podcast today where all information is funneled and censored through government entities. And so the information that you're receiving is only what the government wants you to hear. And so I think it's just Chris (14:41) Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (14:58) Yeah, Chris (14:58) Very true. John-Nelson Pope (15:00) you should have turned your camera off at that point so that everybody thought that there would be... Chris (15:03) ⁓ Be careful. Hey, speak the truth, Casey. You're right. Kasie (15:12) Yeah, that's all we have is the truth. Chris (15:16) Yeah, and it gets so distorted. It really is so distorted and agendas are had. Like I said, I know that is since the history of war, you know, in conflict, it feels that it feels different. It really isn't different. It's the intensity that's different. And it is wildly different in intensity level. Because, know, we actually live, we got to get off this topic. I don't want to cut you out, Victoria, if you got thoughts. Kasie (15:18) It does. Chris (15:44) But, know, I mean, we actually live in a time of peace. That sounds crazy with the conversation we're having, but in the history of the world, know, Genghis Khan and, you know, the various empires and the Romans, I mean, the Romans were always crushing somebody's tail, you know? Yeah, it's just, they basically ran the gambit of the whole world and took people over. So we are actually living in a time of peace, but it doesn't feel that way because the intensity of what we're exposed to is so strong. So. John-Nelson Pope (15:59) I had to have a victory. Yeah. Kasie (16:01) and Chris (16:13) Let's wrap this up and get to our stuff. Victoria, if you have any thoughts. Good? All right. She says good. All right. Good stuff, man. Keep the faith and stay strong around the world. Support your neighbors and love humans because that's what's affected by this. ⁓ The interesting topic today of the go-to therapist tools, right? So the three questions that we have to think through the show. Kasie (16:30) Mm-hmm. Chris (16:41) is first, when emotional distress hits, what tools actually help people regain stability? Quick comment on that. It's funny because I'm sure you guys have similar experience. know, people come to therapy all the time and want like, give me the tools. And it's like, give me the steps, give me the lists. You know, they want a workbook. And it's like, that is great. And you're actually getting a good stuff today in that regard. But therapy has so much more going on. Okay, the relationship with a therapist, dealing with your individualized experience and internal process and surroundings and culture in your life. I mean, it goes way beyond a tool. that being said, question one, when emotional distress hits, what tools actually help people regain stability? Two, are the foundational strategies therapists rely on regarding the specific diagnosis or are there, I'm sorry, are there foundational strategies? And then three, what skills can people practice regularly so they're prepared when distress appears? Practicality here. What's interesting and strikes me about those questions before we get going, and we're all just going to take a turn. We're not having a big presentation. We're kicking it around. Don't freak out Victoria. We'll see what she comes up with though. Don't freak out John. We'll see what he comes up with also though. I know Casey went ham. We're going to just take four different segments. Each one of us kind of. you leads or facilitates their kind of go-to thoughts. ⁓ But, you know, the foundational strategies, there are so many, aren't there? You know, there's like, we have this field that has so many theories. It's getting richer and richer as we go along, as the decades roll off. We haven't rolled off centuries in this field, where we're kind of young, you know, if you think about it, in the big picture of the sciences. John, you're a good historian. mean, when did we really, really get going in mental health field, you know, back with Freud and the philosophers and stuff? John-Nelson Pope (18:49) Well, that would have been probably, they'd been talking about it from the 1850s. There was a French guy and I can't think of his name, but he was the first neurologist. And I put that in quotes because that became psychiatry ⁓ in the 1850s and 60s. And Freud was Austrian and ⁓ he kind of picked up on this and he ran with it. And there are some things that are just like, Chris (19:18) Right. John-Nelson Pope (19:19) peculiarly ⁓ Victorian, you know, some of the viewpoints. Chris (19:24) So did Adler, the way, and Ali came better. Just saying. Kasie (19:27) Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (19:28) Adler, ⁓ but he was actually a little bit later and so he was like in the 20s and the 30s especially, he was very active. ⁓ But Adler, but Freud ⁓ was in the ⁓ late 19th century and that kind of just took, he took the ball and ran with it and came up with a lot of. Kasie (19:52) Mm-hmm. John-Nelson Pope (19:55) He did not have a lot of empirical evidence. just basically, a lot of it was observation and ⁓ symbolism, basically. What are the meaning of dreams? What is the, you know, and of course ⁓ Young kind of picked up with that as well and then went woo a little bit and ⁓ Kasie (20:14) Thank Chris (20:15) But here's my thing, John, I'm getting, what I was getting at. Right. You're right on. Thank you for that because, know, we're getting richer. The strategies, the theory base, the science behind all of this is getting richer and richer as we go on. I'm kind of exciting. Victoria, girl, your career is going to track, I feel like, with amazing advancements in the mental health field. know, John will be long gone. Casey and I will be old. John-Nelson Pope (20:45) I'll hunt you. Chris (20:45) being able to talk and, and, and the end of your career is going to be wildly different than the richness and the strategies and the theory based and the understanding that we have now. Right. Victoria (20:57) Yeah, no, I'm excited about it because I definitely would agree that I think it definitely has a lot of potential and a lot of things that directions that it can go. So I'm excited to try and keep up with it. Chris (21:11) Tract neurology and the endocrine system. Kasie (21:13) ⁓ I mean, even when I graduated from grad school in 2012, know, was like telehealth was not a thing for mental health. I mean, and that was just in 2012, that's 14 years ago, you know? It's insane to me like that we've come this far. Chris (21:25) No. No. Right. Yeah, no, it's- It's a lot of advancements. Okay, so how do we want to do this, guys? John, you get a complete and utter veto, but you can reverse trend and go the opposite direction, and then Victoria, you have a veto also, because I will go first if need be. John, I thought we'd go from the senior downward to the newer. John-Nelson Pope (22:05) Okay, this is good. ⁓ I can do this. ⁓ I'm thinking and it's book. I'm not prepared. Bookends and I just, it kind of came to me was the first thing when I was in my first pastoral counseling class at seminary or cemetery as I used to call it is the, when I was. Chris (22:09) Love it. He's on the spot y'all. This guy has not prepared. He did not know it. This is genuine. We're in the moment. John-Nelson Pope (22:31) studying for ministry. And of course, I told you back in those days in the Presbyterian Church, a good third of my classes were in pastoral counseling. And that was part of the curriculum. Everybody had to take it. ⁓ And I think it was one of the best things that I had. And we were given an article, and I can't quite recall. the title of it, but it was in the Journal of Counseling Psychology in 1957. ⁓ 20 years later, I was in seminary and it was by ⁓ Carl Rogers and he wrote about the six ⁓ conditions considered for ⁓ necessary and sufficient, necessary and sufficient for therapeutic personality change. I think that's the title. And it said, Kasie (23:13) Okay. John-Nelson Pope (23:28) that there's two persons ⁓ are in contact. The first person is the client. It's in a state of incongruence, being vulnerable or anxious. And the second person is the therapist and he is congruent in the relationship. He's a non-anxious presence or she's a non-anxious presence. ⁓ That the therapist is experiencing unconditional positive regard and we as seminarians said, that's unconditional love, which is difficult for us to achieve. Okay. And we felt that and made ourselves open to the client and that we did that. And then the therapist, once they are able to do that, has an empathetic understanding of the client's internal turmoil. Chris (24:03) Okay. John-Nelson Pope (24:28) frame of reference. And finally, the client sees, even at a minimal degree, conditions of the unconditional positive regard and the empathetic understanding of the therapist. And the therapist is genuine and authentic. And at that time, the magic happens. And so basically, it's a connection. Chris (24:54) So here's what's interesting. I mean, I'm listening to you and I wanna, a lot of times I need things dumbed down in my brain and I wanna make sure the listener's following this. So. John-Nelson Pope (25:08) It was in a journal. ⁓ Chris (25:09) So yeah, I'm sure it was in a journal, So the idea here is, what is your go-to when we're working with people, right? When our experience is... John-Nelson Pope (25:23) When I go there, I try to be as transparent and authentic as possible. That I don't have an agenda. My agenda is the person that is in the room with me and I'm looking at that person or the person that's on the is on the video screen and I take them where they are basically emotionally and if they're broken emotionally I go there with them and I walk alongside of them. Chris (25:29) Right. Kasie (25:45) Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (25:52) and I journey alongside of them. And that's my go-to because I don't see... I want to develop what's called a therapeutic alliance. Yeah. So in other words, I want them to know that I give a damn about them. I care for their well-being and that even though I don't know them, I have the potential for love. for them. Chris (26:24) I thought you were clapping, Casey. I want to know how you did the clappy thing. Kasie (26:26) I did clap and then I raised my hand because I think that John is... ⁓ Victoria (26:26) ACS are hand raised. Kasie (26:33) with the reaction buttons. But I think that John has a really good point here in a lot of what he's saying. And one thing that I think the listener can hear from this is as therapists, we are making the attempt to be our most authentic selves in the session. What that requires from a person is probably one of the first skills that's needed in a therapeutic alliance. And that's being honest. know, being honest about why you are engaging in treatment. Being honest about why now. Being honest about what you're coming in with. ⁓ Because a lot of this is about those initial phases of building rapport with someone. to be able to get to what it is that, you know, maybe something that you're struggling with or someone in your family is struggling with, whatever's going on, because so much of this process is not about what's wrong with you. And I think that that's where people get it twisted a little bit. Yeah, it's, come in thinking like, what's wrong with me? Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (27:43) You take the judgment out, it's the no judgment. It's like being at Planet Fitness. Kasie (27:50) And really a lot of this is about life experiences and what's happened to you in your life. Chris (27:58) Yeah, you know, I love that too. I I like to do training and I've got a day presentation and a seminar that I've done. And one of the things I really, really want young therapists, if you're listening to this, to really understand is what Casey's highlighting. And John, you're absolutely on point. It is a tool, ourselves as a tool. I think the most powerful thing through my eyes as a therapist doing this John-Nelson Pope (27:58) Thank you. Chris (28:27) is the relationship. John-Nelson Pope (28:31) That is what we were made for, I think. If you look at it evolutionarily or you look at it terms of that God created us, the fact is that we were made to be social and to interact and to genuinely care. Kasie (28:49) Yeah. John-Nelson Pope (28:59) our purpose is circle widening. We want to go in and bring in people that feel alienated, feel hurt, feel broken, and that they can come back in. And so we end up circle widening in our life. The reason why I said it's bookends, and I'll be quiet after this, is that when I went to graduate school 20 years later, not graduate school, but my doctorate, Chris (29:23) No, you won't. John-Nelson Pope (29:29) so guess it was graduate school, is the first article we were given was by Carl Rogers and it was that paper, the six conditions considered both necessary and sufficient for therapeutic personality change. And that was the first one. And I said, there's a reason why I'm hearing this. This is very important. And so that's... Chris (29:57) Wow. John-Nelson Pope (29:58) I predicated my my counseling practice on that. Chris (30:03) That's really awesome. That's really awesome. And Casey, it was in a journal. John-Nelson Pope (30:08) But Casey probably read it and she probably wrote it. ⁓ Kasie (30:08) I know. No, definitely am not old enough to have written it. What's so interesting is what you're referencing there though, John, was one of the staples of my graduate coursework as well. In fact, we actually watched Carl Rogers, Irvulam, and goodness, I forget the other person, but in a video series with a woman named Gloria. Yeah, we watched those video series of John-Nelson Pope (30:41) Gloria, yeah, yeah, yeah. Victoria (30:42) Mm-hmm, Gloria, yeah. Kasie (30:46) of the different types of therapeutic approaches. John-Nelson Pope (30:50) And you know, isn't it interesting that Rogers was the only one that didn't try to have a relationship with an inappropriate relationship ⁓ with Gloria because Gloria was, she was very troubled as an individual. Kasie (31:00) Yeah. It was. Chris (31:09) Okay, I've been doing Kasie (31:09) Yeah. Chris (31:10) this for a long time. All three of you seemed, Victoria, you joined in on the Gloria thing. Can somebody tell me what this Gloria thing is? I don't know what you're talking about. Victoria (31:14) Yeah? John-Nelson Pope (31:18) ⁓ you gotta see it. Victoria (31:18) I like... Chris (31:20) I got nothing. Victoria (31:21) We should put his, ⁓ is it, ⁓ this is because you're the social worker. Kasie (31:26) ⁓ yeah, it is. Chris (31:26) It may be. It Victoria (31:28) Yeah, Chris (31:28) may be. Victoria (31:29) because you did. Yeah, that's my only thought as to why they would not have shown because I mean, that's like a thing. Yeah, even a Lenora Rhyne, they showed it and like, probably more than one class more than one class. It was like, either clips of it or the whole thing or like, yeah, it's a pretty famous. I mean, I'm probably not good at explaining it. The other two could probably Kasie (31:41) Yeah. Chris (31:42) Interesting. Kasie (31:53) Yep, you can find it on YouTube. John-Nelson Pope (31:54) No, no, just, you know, and it was a genuine empathy. Chris (31:57) Would you say Casey? Kasie (32:00) YouTube. Chris (32:02) do it on YouTube. Yeah, you know what? You're right. And Victoria, thank you for that, identifying that. You're right on point because we really do have different disciplines in this field. But what's interesting is, of course, I know Carl Rogers, I was following most of what everyone was talking about, you're right. We didn't have those videos in my programming. And the fact is, that we all have universality in what it is that we do, but we do have different trainings. Like our field is very confusing. Marriage and family counselors. I am a social worker. You're right. You guys are LPCs or LCMHCQT, whatever the letters are now. I know, I know. LCMHC. Every state's got different letters and different disciplines and different kinds of trainings. But understand therapy strategies. And this is what goes at core strategies from core therapists at least. And John, yeah, perfect. The idea of... John-Nelson Pope (32:37) CMHCs. Kasie (32:38) Thank you. Chris (32:56) of the relationship and the genuineness and the openness and the, it's it's a powerful thing. Like I tell young therapists, man, there's, there's not a lot of relationships that you can have anything like what we have. when you sit down with a therapist, you are sitting down with somebody who is 100 % of the time focused on for an extended period of time up to an hour or more on only you and what you're bringing. Like when you, when you have a regular John-Nelson Pope (33:21) Yeah. man. Chris (33:26) relationship with somebody, they're just focused on what you're saying for 30 seconds until you stop because they're already thinking about what they're going to say next. A relationship with a therapist and these core fundamentals that we're talking about today is just unlike no other. Can you tell Victoria I'm passionate about what we do? Kasie (33:44) Yeah. Victoria (33:45) Yeah, and actually like, ⁓ crap, can't find it. Where is it? no, I talked about it in my thing. multitasking mentally. That's what you're talking about. Like when, I mean, cause I talk about it in my thing that I'm doing, but like, yeah, it's when you're like, think what, yeah, when you're talking to your friends, they're also thinking about, shit, what do I have to grab at the grocery store later today? Like they're doing, they're thinking about all different things. yeah, ⁓ sorry. Anyways. Chris (33:55) She's googling. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. No, so let's go down. guess John, you're the oldest. Am I the second oldest? I'll go next Casey. Are we going to fight for it? No. ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (34:26) Yeah. Kasie (34:26) Yeah, yeah, you are. You're the second oldest. Victoria (34:29) No. John-Nelson Pope (34:31) Casey reminded you of that about a month ago that you were the second oldest. Chris (34:33) Yeah. She's making it very clear. Very painful, by the way. I'm used to being the youngest one now. I'm not even the second youngest one, but that's okay in such a small group. All right. My thing is, I mean, have you guys ever heard of self care? Can you get any more core than that? Right. ⁓ what's that? What'd you say? John-Nelson Pope (34:44) Those were the days. No, that's self-care. Kasie (34:53) What is that? I said, what is that? ⁓ Chris (34:58) Yeah, I don't- John-Nelson Pope (34:58) what we don't do well as therapists. Chris (35:01) correct what we don't Yeah, it's true. It's true. You know, I wasn't sure about this topic that I was generating. And so I stopped ⁓ another one of our colleagues in the office and just kind of presented it to her and, ⁓ you know, threw it out there to her and kind of probed her to see what she would come up with to see how you guys would handle this topic. What is your core go to, you know, and Victoria (35:02) Right there, right there, right Kasie (35:05) That, gentlemen. That. Chris (35:31) I thought it was really funny the way she responded to mine, which is self-care is what I, it's the first thing that came to my mind. I thought I wanted to start there. ⁓ cause I must mention the emotion focused therapy as well. That's a strategy wise, by the way, I use that a lot. Look it up. We've done shows on it, but I'm enamored with that, that pattern setting of what happens in close attachments. But you know, she kind of poo pooed me a little bit y'all. She did. I love you, Nikki. That's fine. But I'm not taking it personally, but. But she's like, yeah, you know, cause she immediately went into like this and then this and then this. And she said, yeah, like I was immediately ready to debate you or talk to you about like the things that I bring. And that's when I decided, yeah, this topic is going to be awesome, right? Because self care really is a simple statement. If you go to therapy, you're probably going to hear your therapist say the words at some point. And for me, the way I define this as just fun, relaxing, enjoyable activities. They're kind of like hobbies. They're not self-destructive in any way, and they're not work-related tasks. I have said that in my work thousands of times, I'm sure, honestly, literally. And I always have that as some element of relating with a person pretty early on in the relationship development that John was talking about, because I feel like it's so central and key into what it is that we have to do for ourselves. Like we have got to be able to deal with stress and life factors. But then we've got to be able to pull back, go over here for a minute, completely distract our minds into another activity and then come back into what you're finding stressful or that you're dealing with. And you'll be amazed sometimes at the reset that the brain does with that. And it was who said it, Victoria or John, think, yeah, therapists suck at doing that. We really do. You know, and I like to say this can be, you know, five minutes at a time, or it could be five weeks. can spend thousands of dollars or no money at all on these hobbies or these activities, these things. And I tell you what, I am really curious. I'll ask you guys when you come across and we've all had clients that really struggle with that. I mean, I have friends that say, there was one girl I was going to date and went on a speed dating thing and she said, John-Nelson Pope (37:29) Yeah. Chris (37:55) She had nothing that she does for fun. like, I'm not dating you. I got no interest. Seriously, it ended right there because I'm like, you can't do this, you're screwed. John-Nelson Pope (38:10) You're, you're, you're brave, man. Chris (38:11) Right? Victoria (38:11) when did you even, I mean, but when to even say like going to therapy in itself is self care. Chris (38:18) No, I wouldn't. And the reason why is because this is a resting time. This is fun stuff that you do. It is chill out time. It is a break. It is a distraction. And I'm glad you said that, Victoria, because we probably have different views in the field about what that really refers to. I am being very specific about having fun with yourself. Self, too, by the way, because I do talk about self-care. and relationship care. It's the same thing as self-care done with somebody that you're tending to in relationship with, and then also physical care. You gotta take care of your body, nutrition, sleep, all the things. But the thing is, is really like this self-care, you know, I think it's so often talked about and so little understood, but so crucially on a foundational level important to being able to be well. Kasie (39:11) Yeah, I think you're right. I think the cautionary tale here is for those who are listening that, you know, oftentimes when I have people come in and we talk about how are you caring for yourself during this time, they can rattle off a list of things that they do quintessentially for self care. And I think an important point here is to make sure that you're able to be present when you are completing these activities. Don't treat self-care like a checklist item that you just want to do because it's a good thing to do, right? It needs to be something that you truly... Victoria (39:53) or because your therapist tells you that you need to do it. Kasie (39:56) It needs to be something that John-Nelson Pope (39:56) Yeah. Kasie (39:58) you do have a almost relaxing experience with, right? A time where you feel like you can, you know, breathe for a little bit and just tuck away for a minute in the brain or tuck away in an activity or a puzzle or what have you, but that you're able to be present during that time. I can't tell you how many times people come into the office and say, well, I tried this, this, and this, and this, and none of these things None of it worked. None of it works. None of it works. John-Nelson Pope (40:31) Yeah, that sounds like one of my clients. Kasie (40:34) And I think a lot of it is because until you free up the capacity to be able to be present in an activity, it is gonna be hard to care for yourself emotionally. But often what I will do with clients is have them really think about in a very realistic way what their day looks like. How much time are you spending on your phone scrolling? How much time are you spending with the TV on with you not actually really watching anything but just on, know, and things like that. Chris (41:09) Yeah, that's a point. You know, I've never thought of that, Casey. I really appreciate that because you're right. Death scrolling is bad, I guess. We can't include that in self-care. TV time is one of my things with sports and movies especially, but you're right. I've never thought about it in that way. I am fully dialed into the show when I'm in it. Right. And when the doom scrolling and the brainless things. Yeah, you're right. Kasie (41:28) Yeah, right, but. John-Nelson Pope (41:34) ⁓ that just adds to anxiety. Yeah. Kasie (41:37) Yeah, and so I think it's also important to think about, you know, when people tell me I don't have the time, I work full time, I'm a full time parent, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Let's go back to that time that you're scrolling on the phone and that you're on the TV and things like that. Go ahead, sorry John. John-Nelson Pope (41:54) Casey, I'm sorry, I was interrupting, but it's like they exchanged their internal locus of control for an external locus of control. And no wonder they're anxious. They're anxious about all these things. And yeah, thank you, Casey. Kasie (42:07) Yeah. Yeah. Victoria (42:13) Yeah, actually, Casey, you bring up a really good point because like I have a lot of clients who when I talk about self care or when I talk about things like that, they like their answer is, well, I'll doom scroll. And I'm like, good. Like. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, they'll say doom scroll or like they'll just say, I'll just get on TikTok or like scroll on Instagram reels or whatever. And yeah, and sometimes I'm like. Kasie (42:26) Thanks. John-Nelson Pope (42:27) Mmm. Chris (42:28) Do they literally use the word? Victoria (42:42) Okay, sure, that might be great for like some decompression if you had a rough day from work. But like, I don't know if I would classify that as self care. You know, like, you're kind of just killing your brain cells. And that's not really self care. Kasie (42:52) you John-Nelson Pope (43:00) Okay, for me it's listening to Baroque music and just kind of feeling the sound of the orchestra wash over me, you know, so I'm out. Kasie (43:10) Yeah. Chris (43:14) I misinterpreted that, John. Sorry, I thought you meant musical and songs and lyrics and stuff. No, you were talking about, yeah, what did you say, what kind of music? Ro. John-Nelson Pope (43:22) Baroque music, ⁓ Kasie (43:22) Baroque. John-Nelson Pope (43:24) 18th century, ⁓ late, late, yeah, yeah, horns, strings, ⁓ that sort of thing. Kasie (43:25) Baroque, pipe organs. Chris (43:29) ⁓ wow, okay cool. Kasie (43:32) Yeah. Chris (43:33) I didn't know that word. Yeah, big band. I call that sort of big band stuff. ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (43:37) No! Kasie (43:38) Not even close. Big band is almost like jazz. Classical music, like J-Toke. John-Nelson Pope (43:42) No, no, this is classical music. is, this is Handel. Chris (43:42) Well, I- Classical opera, musical, kind of. I mean, come on. ⁓ Hey, I'm always learning. Always learning, OK. OK. I'm going to move us along because I'm aware of the time. OK. And so ⁓ we're going to transition to Casey and what she's talking about. Casey, what is a client listening to us might say is your go to tool, your go to strategy, your go to thing. John-Nelson Pope (43:47) Yeah. Yeah. Victoria (43:49) Look at Chris learning new things. John-Nelson Pope (43:51) Yeah. Kasie (43:52) Yeah. So I also think... Okay. John-Nelson Pope (43:54) But, but... Kasie (44:13) Yeah, so ⁓ I wanna point out that all of the go-to strategies that I'm getting ready to talk about are things that I actually do in practice for myself as my own go-to skills. So this is not something that I'm just sharing as a therapist to a client per se, but something that I actually routinely practice myself. So really this concept is about resiliency-based skill building. And it really starts out with a simple concept of what is resiliency? You what is resilience? And really it's that ability to adapt, recover, and keep going even when life feels overwhelming and stressful. It's really important that we acknowledge that everyone, everyone, no one is immune from experiencing some sort of distress and stress. No one's exempt from hard moments. The difference isn't whether we feel stress, it is simply how we respond to it. And I think that that's been. overwhelmingly important in my life. I had so many life changes that occurred simultaneously at one point in my life that this was something I started to pay in particularly like focused in on for my own wellbeing and experiences. And so the goal here is really to shift from Reactive coping, so those automatic, sometimes impulsive responses that we do to something that's far more intentional and using a skilled based response. Reactive coping, to speak to Victoria's point earlier, would be something like doom scrolling. That's very reactive coping. It's that instantaneous kind of dopamine receptor in the brain that's being activated in that moment to kind of help you fade away, disappear, disengage from life for a little bit. What I would like for people to focus on when they're working with me and for myself is to do something more intentional, which is skill-based responding. And to understand really kind of why this matters, I just want to talk briefly about the brain and body. And so when we're stressed, our system activates into kind of this fight, flight, or freeze response. Our heart rate will increase, our thoughts speed up, and we're wired to react pretty quickly, to be honest. It's our safety mechanism that naturally occurs in the body. And the way I explain this in my office is that, you know, when you walk into the therapy space and generally there is somewhere for the client to sit and somewhere for the therapist to sit, we generally will walk in and go ahead and just go have a seat on the couch or whatnot, because we trust the environment and we trust the space. But what would happen if a rattlesnake crawled out from underneath the couch one day? Yeah, what would happen? It would be terrible, right? It would be a horrible experience. And so the next time you came back to therapy after we caught the right the rattlesnake and assuming you would come back, you would be hesitant to walk into the space again, and just immediately go and sit on the couch. Chris (47:09) wouldn't like that. John-Nelson Pope (47:11) Mm-hmm. Kasie (47:29) we're gonna wanna look under the couch, get the flashlights out, maybe change the location, things like that, because you're automatically activated to a point of stress by just being in that environment again where this horrible activity had happened. So our brain is wired. to try to keep us safe. The problem is, is that when we operate in that level of stress sometimes, our automatic responses are pretty disproportionate to what has actually happened and what's happening around us. So the resiliency skills really help bring us back down to baseline. They can help us slow things down and give us a sense of control again, just like what John was saying. We're looking for that external locus of control. It gives us an intrinsic way or inside of our body way to be able to regain control. It's not about avoiding stress. It's just about knowing what to do when it shows up. So John, did you have a question? Your hand was raised. John-Nelson Pope (48:33) Yeah, the question is what counseling theory or ⁓ psychotherapeutic modality are we talking about with this? Kasie (48:42) Yep. So it's really a combination, I would say, of CBT skills and DBT skills. So cognitive behavioral therapy skills and dialectical behavioral therapy skills. And while this is not an evidence-based practice in and of itself as of yet, it is actually in the clearinghouse, the California clearinghouse. It's going through trials from the Trauma Resource Institute in Claremont, California. So Elaine Miller-Carris is doing that work out there. John-Nelson Pope (48:49) That's what I thought, yeah. Kasie (49:12) And it's really insightful because what they noticed was that in natural disasters, their team was dispatched out from the Trauma Resource Institute to go and work with people who had just experienced natural disasters. And when I took the training to be a trainer of trainers, it was right after the Haitian earthquakes had happened and so much devastation and destruction was going on. And so people were in those moments and needed immediate skills John-Nelson Pope (49:13) Good on her. Kasie (49:42) that would help them refocus their nervous system and reset back to baseline. John-Nelson Pope (49:47) And it goes, and it's applicable across many ⁓ cultures, various cultures. Kasie (49:53) Yes, yes, and diagnoses to point out to Chris's original thing about regard. Yeah, I mean, a new resiliency model. it sure is. Do you? That's awesome. Victoria (49:59) ⁓ is this, is this your crim? This is your crim, right? still have all your stuff from that. And I pull it out. I pull it out every once in a while when I like can't remember something and I go through it. Kasie (50:12) Yes. Chris (50:12) Well, OK, so I'm going to do something interesting and switch this around. And I'm aware of the time a little bit. We need to get to Victoria as well. So the Glorious. How do I do, John? John-Nelson Pope (50:20) Victoria. Kasie (50:26) Great. John-Nelson Pope (50:26) You did wonderful. You got a wonderful voice. Chris (50:27) That wasn't Beth. That wasn't Beth. So, I want the listener to hear a little bit more precision on what this is. So I'm curious, Victoria, what you heard from the Prim. The Prim? What is the Prim and what did you get from that? And in a little context is too that Victoria actually, I think it's okay to say this, guys. I hope I'm not breaking the thing. But Victoria actually trained under Casey for a little while. Kasie (50:38) Uh-huh. Victoria (50:43) That it stands for. Kasie (50:43) Yeah. Chris (50:56) I don't know if that, you know, right? So that's where this comes from. Victoria (51:00) Yeah, the CRiMM is the community resiliency model. And it basically teaches you the immediate things, like the help now skills that you're talking about. That it's basically that we can have these things that we can utilize, like Casey's saying, in these moments of I don't have time to learn something, I need something quick. So we've talked about things like having John-Nelson Pope (51:01) She's a disciple. Victoria (51:30) a picture on your desk or like a go-to song that you can think about that calms you down or like these different types of things to help with it. And then there's like the whole bumping in it, the whole resiliency model scale, which I teach in my sessions all the time, where you can like bump high and bump low, but you have your resiliency zone in the middle and which, and that's like the zone in which you're able to. experience something, but you're able to bounce back and continue throughout your day. It doesn't like ruin your whole day. And so then that's like your resiliency zone. But then you can like bump up or bump down and you kind of get stuck in these high and lows when you have something that is outside of your ability to control it. And then that's where like your help now skills come in. That's where you might need a little bit extra to bring you back down into like your resiliency zone. Chris (52:24) I love that I did that. And Casey, I got to say, you've got to be having proud therapist training moment here. You got to see on the YouTube, Victoria was just giving us this direct skill and it was working really well. And Casey just sitting back just, jeez. ⁓ Kasie (52:30) Okay, I'm so proud right now. Well, and that's why I love this show because what we want the listener to know and what I would want them to know about the community resiliency model in general, but resiliency based skills is that you do not have to be a licensed professional to one, do the skills and two, to teach the skills. You can teach skills to your children. You can teach the skills to your spouse. Victoria (53:02) Yep yep. Kasie (53:09) whomever is in your life, you can teach these skills to. And so I do, know in the sake of time, we were trying to kind of push through this, but I do want to get to some of the skills, like three usable skills that you can take away from today's show. And so the first one is something that we're probably all familiar with, which is the five, four, three, two, one method. And that is in your immediate area, just looking out in front of you, what are five things that you can see right now? What are four things that you can feel? Three things you can hear? Two things you can smell? And one thing you can taste. And sometimes you may not taste anything or things like that, but the point of these skills is to be resetting to the nervous system. So a lot of times we teach skills in our offices, but we don't always inform the client at times as to why this works or why it can work. with intentional use. The reason that we do this is that if you do these skills intentionally by focusing in on and experiencing five things you can actually see and kind of get those descriptions going in the brain, you actually shift the brain out of the emotional hemisphere of the brain into the rational hemisphere of the brain. Whenever you engage one of your five senses, You are actually doing a rational skill in the moment that can help reduce emotionality and get you back balanced to more of the frontal cortex, the decision part making of the brain. Yeah. So that is for us to stay present. The next skill is to, is that reframing, shifting our thinking. We call it stinking thinking for a reason because our thoughts can run away with ourselves. And so the first thing we want to ask ourselves is what am I telling myself right now? Is there another way to look at this? Or as I like to do in my office is I will literally have a person fold a sheet of paper in half and write out what are the facts of the situation. and what are the feelings of the situation. Because a lot of times, if we're being honest with ourselves, we are functioning out of the feelings of a situation and not based on what's factually happening in the moment. We are allowing feelings to dictate our behavior instead of gathering all of the relevant information in order to make an informed choice or decision. Victoria (55:48) Socacratic questioning. Chris (55:49) and Kasie (55:50) Socratic questioning facts and feelings, yeah. Chris (55:53) And lastly, we got a third. Kasie (55:55) And then pause and choice, also known as the STOP skill. And so STOP stands for stop, take a breath, observe what's happening internally and externally, and then proceed intentionally. This has worked impeccably well for when I was doing residential children's mental health, because what I learned very quickly is that hangry is a real thing, right? So when I'm teaching STOP skills, and I'm asking kids sometimes, like, what's going on with you internally? The truth was they really needed a snack. They were actually hungry. Yeah, go ahead, John. John-Nelson Pope (56:30) you Yeah. No, no, that's what I do with HALT with for for substance use or alcohol use disorders. Yeah. And I do that. That's in their tool bag. I give everybody a tool bag. Kasie (56:41) Yeah, same thing, right? Yup. Chris (56:52) Another tool and halt stands for John hungry lonely John-Nelson Pope (56:57) Angry, lonely, tired. Kasie (57:00) Yeah, but then you can proceed intentionally. so really just, you know, thinking about different situations that can pop up in life. There are tons of resiliency skills out there. I would encourage anybody that's listening tonight to go and look it up. I mean, they're all available to you online in various methods. But I definitely think to kind of just wrap this up. just to really think about how you don't have to master everything at once. You can pick a skill, try it on, if it fits, continue to wear it. If it doesn't, change the skill. You know, it doesn't have Chris (57:40) And for people that are very, very frustrated, Casey, just to jump in, they try something, they try again, they try something else, they try something else. They get to the point that is a lot and they will think oftentimes to themselves, I have tried everything and nothing works for me. And I'm going to maintain to you that if you're still listening to this show and you've felt that before, that is impossible. Okay. We're giving you just a slight taste here today. Look, we got time. Kasie (57:44) Yeah. Chris (58:09) We got issue with time. So Victoria, see what you got. She's been thinking, she's been working, her brain's been spinning. I tell you, we got the resiliency girl that just spoke. We've got the self care guy, me, that brought it up. We got the relationship itself as a tool, being genuine and open and honest with John's idea. Victoria, I got a question for you. What is your go-to deal when you're working with people? Victoria (58:33) Yeah. Look, I bet you can't guess. Chris (58:41) I mean, we got time. We don't have time to guess. Victoria (58:45) Casey probably could guess if y'all haven't looked at the show notes, because it's like one of my main things that I do, which is mindfulness. Kasie (58:57) Yeah. Chris (58:57) There we go. What is the basics of mindfulness? Victoria (58:58) Okay, the basics of mindfulness is like paying attention to the present moment on purpose and without judgment is like core thing. ⁓ I mean, it helps clients with like slowing emotional reactivity, increasing awareness of thoughts and feelings, but also like creating space between like a feeling and an action in itself. ⁓ It can be used for Things like when you're experiencing anxiety or panic, emotional overwhelm-ness, which I don't know if that's, is overwhelm-ness a word? No, whatever. Racing thoughts, dissociation, and anger with like pair with breathing. So kind of similar to ⁓ some things mentioned before, some of the main things. John-Nelson Pope (59:37) No, that's being overwhelmed, Chris (59:38) We're gonna go with it Victoria (59:54) like theories that is used in is DBT, which is as said before, is dialectal dialectical behavior therapy. And it can also be used in acceptance and commitment therapy. Both of those kind of even though they've already been mentioned, I'll kind of share it again. So like for DBT, the main thing is like helping people manage intense emotions and not react in a harmful way. And then ACT, is the Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, is helping people live in a meaningful life even when you have difficult thoughts and feelings. Yes, John, did you raise your hand? John-Nelson Pope (1:00:32) Real quickly in other words, do you use apps to help as a form of homework for your clients? In other words, help them mindfulness apps things like that. Yeah. Victoria (1:00:41) Do I use apps? Yes, yes, I do have some that I recommend. Things like the Finch app or the How We Feel app, or just to name two of them. So yes, Casey. Kasie (1:01:01) to tell you quickly, I'm so sorry to interrupt, but when John said, you use apps and you name some apps, Ayla over here just said, I use the Holy Bible app. Victoria (1:01:03) You're fine! You go, Aila. That was... I mean, it works for some people. Chris (1:01:14) Go, baby! That's all. John-Nelson Pope (1:01:16) Yeah. Chris (1:01:18) awesome. Victoria, we need to summarize a little bit in Taxi Inn, but ⁓ you know, mindful, well, I'm just saying that to summarize in, I mindfulness is something that people have heard of, like self-care, but it's really specific. I like the way that you started with that, right? John-Nelson Pope (1:01:21) That's. Victoria (1:01:24) Sure. I mean, I can go, I can click to some. Well, because, okay, so like parts of it are like, look, I gotta get comfortable here. So like part of it, breaking it down is like one, at least in a therapy session, like you wanna observe. Like you wanna notice what's happening in your body. So like we can, as therapists, we can use prompts like, what are you noticing in your body right now? Where do you feel that emotion? Casey, are you raising your hand again? Okay. ⁓ And then like two, you want to describe like in session, you want to try to like, put into words what or try to get the client put into words like what they're experiencing. So like, either like something like my chest feels tight, or I'm noticing racing thoughts. So we use this term of like name it to tame it. So you kind of have to be able to like, name the emotion or name what your Kasie (1:02:06) did mean to. Chris (1:02:06) He was actually muted. Victoria (1:02:34) experiencing so that we can focus on like quote unquote taming it. ⁓ And then as like, this is more from a therapist point of view, but you like for the therapist themselves, but we want to make sure that we're like fully engaged kind of what Chris was talking about earlier, where like, we want to focus on what's happening, like focus on breathing on the task on the conversation. So we want to let go of what I mentioned earlier that multitasking mentally. So as we're working with our client, we're not thinking, ⁓ I need to feed the dog when I get home, and I need to go grocery shopping. what am I going to say next? How am I going to follow this up? Because then we're not really focused on what the client is experiencing in the moment. And so then some go-to exercises that I do. And some of them I don't always do these, but these are some that also can be done. A lot of these are like also can be done in session. So you can do them because I really like teaching clients like things that they can do in session, but then also things that they can do when they're outside of my office because they if they only see me for one hour a week, they need to be prepared and have things that they can utilize the other hours of the week and day that they are not in my office ⁓ or whatnot. So some of those things include. John-Nelson Pope (1:03:53) Huh. Victoria (1:04:00) like good old mindfulness breathing. So like even I end every single session of mine with a deep breath. My clients know that. And I take the deep breaths with them. I mean, I have clients who decline it sometimes, which is fine. But like doing things with them, we inhale and then we like we exhale longer than we inhaled. And we can do like pause breathing and like all these different types of things. I'm not gonna, I mean, I'll mention it, but I won't repeat what it is, but like the five, four, three, two, one, as Casey mentioned earlier, is also a mindfulness exercise. You can do like body scans. I even did one time in my sports psychology class that I took in college, did a, our professor went through a body scan where like we literally all laid on the floor in the middle of class. And she read a script about like, we started from like our head to our toes or our toes to our head. can't remember exactly which one. And it was like tightening of each muscle and like tension and then relaxation and then tension and then relaxation. ⁓ And like. It's also more about like we're not trying to. Necessarily change what the client is experiencing, it's more about like noticing it and being again. John-Nelson Pope (1:05:03) Yeah, we'll do it. Victoria (1:05:25) that like name it to tame it. And then an ACT technique is called like leaves on a stream or some version of that where you're imagining like your intrusive thoughts are like leaves floating by on a stream. And instead of like reaching out and grabbing the leaf and holding onto it, we let it float on by. So we let that intrusive thought like float on by. I use more of an imagery of, okay, you know, have you seen those videos where it's like fruit in a factory on a conveyor belt and then when it detects bad fruit, it like punches the bad fruit out of the conveyor belt? That's kind of what I imagine is happening to your intrusive thoughts when they come through your brain. They're like, it's being like punched out of your brain. ⁓ So you can use different imagery for that. Chris (1:06:08) You Got you. Victoria (1:06:19) And then there's like other types of like five second pause, breathing, all different types of things that like can be utilized in mindfulness. Chris (1:06:27) So mindfulness is a big buzzword and I actually had a new thought. I don't know if I'll have time to share it. I might have to share it off the air, but John, you had a thought and then we're gonna taxi in. John-Nelson Pope (1:06:38) No, no, no, no. I'm just amazed at this. All four of these points of view, it comes from people's selves. They're real, genuine. Yeah. And, you know, it does reflect our personalities where we are, what's ultimately important for us. But at the same time, there means to Chris (1:06:52) It's I know I was feeling the same way. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. John-Nelson Pope (1:07:07) to help people get in touch with themselves and to do the hard work. Chris (1:07:12) Yeah, I kind of love the way this flowed kind of as well, John. Victoria (1:07:13) Well, and I kind of can I just wrap it up real quick because I kind of do want to mention some of these things. So I did make a note of like some things to avoid when it comes to mindfulness, because as Chris said, like it is kind of like a very popular word and people use mine like just throw it around. And I don't think people always understand like that there we can sometimes be used like inappropriately, especially or not inappropriate. That might not be the best word. Ineffectively. in a therapy session. so like, it's you don't want to use mindfulness if like too early on if someone is in like too intensive distress because like, they're too dysregulated. And it's gonna like fly, it's gonna fly over their head, they're gonna be like, what the bleep are you doing right now? ⁓ Second is we're not making it like an empty, and this is kind of Chris (1:07:56) done that before. Victoria (1:08:10) what I've mentioned before, but you're not like emptying your mind. You're just noticing what those thoughts are. We're not necessarily trying to like completely stop the thoughts. It's just about noticing it, naming it. And then lastly, like, I think some people get over explaining. Like, we want to keep it simple. Again, it doesn't have to be like super freaking complicated. It can be simple, as simple as like breathing in and breathing out. John-Nelson Pope (1:08:31) Cheers. Chris (1:08:40) Love that, love that. Would you care, Casey? Victoria (1:08:41) Okay, that's it. Kasie (1:08:44) Sorry, ⁓ Ayla just wanted to add in one quick thing about mindfulness. She does a mindfulness skill that she really... Chris (1:08:50) Wait a minute, who is this Ada you're talking about? don't even see or know on the podcast streams of Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and everything else. What are we talking about, Casey? Kasie (1:08:57) A John-Nelson Pope (1:08:57) She's a lovely young lady, I can tell you that. Kasie (1:09:00) Ayla is my 10 year old and sometimes if you're feeling emotional, right, what do I tell you to do? You stick your hand out and you put a candle on it or a pretend candle and you say blow out the candle. Yep, so you stick your hand out, you put a pretend candle on it and then you focus and blow out the candle. Yep. Chris (1:09:03) Love that. Love that, that is absolute mindfulness. Listen, I agree, John, this has been a kind of a better than I anticipated kind of flow. Normally we do a segment where we do practical questions to you. We're not gonna do that. Instead, we're gonna end up with our shrink wrap up. Neil, you still with us? You still feeling okay, brother? He was feeling a little under the weather today. Let's see if he pops back up or not. we might not be able to document a winner. seems like Neil went to bed. He went to bed on us. That's awesome. So we may not have a particular winner. ⁓ he says check the chat. ⁓ he is here. OK, well, maybe we'll be able to get a little thing from him. What do you mean, John? ⁓ So on the shrink wrap up, what we do to end up our shows, we all take a little bit of a Kasie (1:09:58) Get well, Neil, get well. John-Nelson Pope (1:10:00) Thank you. And thank you, Neil, for. Bummer. Okay. Chris (1:10:19) of a moment to wrap up the show to kind of talk about the highlights and help you to kind of frame your mind into what we want to, what we want to take from this. ⁓ Neil is telling us that he will tell us the winner. All right. Awesome. So he is the judge and the jury still today. Who shall go first? ⁓ your daughter put you on the spot, Casey. Kasie (1:10:43) Okay, so this is where we kind of summarize like our final point. So here is the takeaway for today. And that is if you can do anything, then you can do something to help yourself help yourself. You know, we always say on here, little idioms about how you want to check yourself before you wreck yourself and things like that. But the truth of the matter is, is that your brain can be your best friend or your worst You have to be discerning over how you utilize it to be able to effectively help yourself cope in the moment when things are stressful. Everybody has stress. Everybody experiences distressing moments. So do yourself a favor. Be kind to yourself. Be good to your brain and learn some of these skills because I think it's going to make all the difference in your journey in life. Chris (1:11:42) love that. ⁓ Mr. John Pope. Victoria (1:11:45) How am I supposed how are any of us supposed to freaking follow that up? John-Nelson Pope (1:11:50) Okay, well that's why he made me do it. you know, listening to all these different approaches tells me that for clients, this is a wonderful opportunity to enter into a therapeutic relationship with certainly, Chris (1:11:51) I don't know what to tell you, Victoria, you get your game on. John-Nelson Pope (1:12:17) the clients or the therapists and Metrolinus Psychotherapy Associates. But the other aspect of it is maybe with other therapists as well because each therapist brings their most authentic self and what they have a great skill in and those are gifts that they share and they do so willingly. The other aspect of this is for the client, if one person's, one therapist modality or method of counseling doesn't appeal to them as much, there's always a different way of looking at things. And so I would encourage the client to go on the websites to see what the professional disclosure. ⁓ statement is all about where you are, where they come from. And so you can figure out what their theory is, what really gives them joy. And they will bring that and share that with you as you engage on a journey together for wholeness and wellness. Chris (1:13:46) love that, okay? Okay, okay, we're down to two. Victoria, do you wanna hit it or shall I give you something to follow up on? Victoria (1:13:54) literally just gonna say ditto to what John and Casey said. And go to therapy. I don't know what else. Do some mindful breathing. I don't know. Chris (1:14:00) That's your wrap up. John-Nelson Pope (1:14:03) Go to therapy. Chris (1:14:09) Okay, Victoria. All right. So my wrap up really is this, like look, you have four really, rather in my opinion, brilliant therapists. One bringing the concept of mindfulness, which in today's day and age is a big deal when it comes to the fractured brain's pattern and focus patterns that we have in today's day and age. The age-old wise one brings relationship. And I will add to that, like, don't isolate you. heard us say that on this show so many times myself that brings the idea of self care, distraction, not in the way that Casey taught us today to just drone out, but in a way of giving yourself a break and tune in, dial in, combine that with mindfulness, if you will. And then Casey herself, who brings the idea of resiliency and all the different ways that that you can talk about in building resiliency. I have such a passion about mental health and substance abuse. John-Nelson Pope (1:14:40) Yeah. Chris (1:15:06) and getting our emotions and our wellness together that I know that there are so many things and here you've had just a smattering. I want you to have the greatest amount of hope. I want you to have the greatest amount of belief in yourself. Understand when you're struggling, when you're feeling these feelings, life can be hard and we've given you a little bit of the tip of the iceberg on all the things that are out there. Like I think Casey said, find yours. Find yours that works best. Choose that. Add on. be multi-skilled and you're going to be well. I love this show guys, I appreciate you doing what we've done today. Neil, what are you thinking? Are you letting us know later? Usually he jumps on, he didn't jump on, so don't know if that's a... ⁓ ho, winner is Casey! Kasie (1:15:43) Thank you, everyone. John-Nelson Pope (1:15:44) Thank you. Kasie (1:15:50) He's on the chat. you. ⁓ John-Nelson Pope (1:15:52) okay. Victoria (1:15:55) Woo! Chris (1:15:57) Alright Casey, you got it baby! No explanation needed. Victoria (1:16:04) So then do I win by association because I diddoed what Casey said? Kasie (1:16:10) Yes, yes. Chris (1:16:10) No. And Neil says no. All right. Listen, guys, we're out of here. We went over a little bit today. Sorry, we get excited about this stuff. We droned on a little bit, but hopefully you really got a couple of pieces that you could take literally for the rest of your life. Thank you for hanging out with us. Thank you for listening. Refer it to a friend and we'll talk to you soon. Stay well. John-Nelson Pope (1:16:13) Yeah. So, yeah. Kasie (1:16:16) Right. John-Nelson Pope (1:16:31) Like a bridge over troubled water. Kasie (1:16:31) Bye everyone.