The show starts off the new panel to discuss what they feel are the Foundations of Marriage. They talk about what therapy methods they find the most effective and how marriage counseling has evolved. Has it become more effective than in the past? Do you think it is worth a couple to go to counseling even if they are not having problems?
Tune in to see the Foundation of Marriage Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Listen for the following takeaways from the show:
- We start by talking to each therapist about what they think are the foundations of marriage.
- Pre-marital counseling is absolutely golden.
- What are some of the models that the therapists use in their practice.
- Everyone has the ability to navigate couples therapy, but not everyone is willing.
- Comparison is the absolute death to Joy.
- There is a shift in the current through process of those in a relationship.
- Marriage is a choice you have to make everyday.
Previous Episodes:
- https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/2018/10/31/episode-11-eft-the-foundation-of-marriage-counseling/
- https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/2020/10/07/the-fundamentals-of-marriage-therapy-eft-episode-11-revisit-and-redo-ep101/
- https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/2021/04/16/criticism-a-bad-marriage-behavior-gottmans-four-horsemen-ep126/
- https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/2021/04/16/defensiveness-and-stonewalling-bad-marriage-behaviors-gottmans-four-horsemen-ep127/
- https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/2021/04/16/defensiveness-and-stonewalling-bad-marriage-behaviors-gottmans-four-horsemen-ep127/
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Episode #201 Transcription
Chris Gazdik: [00:00:00] Hello. This is through a Therapist Eyes, the podcast where you get insights in your home or in your car. But know this is not to delivery of therapy services in any way. This is October the 20, the 14th, right?
Kasie Morgan: The correct. October 13th, 14th. 13th is the 13th. It’s, it’s
Chris Gazdik: the 13th and a day ahead because my clinical day is done.
Listen, we are gonna be talking about emotions, how they drive your day to day experience today. So think about these three questions. Are you aware of what or how your primary emotions are and drive you? Where do your emotions even come from? Think about. And then understand what purposes your emotions might have for you.
That and more we’re gonna talk about today. I think it’ll be a pretty good conversation for sure. This might be a quote from Paul Rasmus, and I’ll explain this in a little while, [00:01:00] but but I wanna get it out in the beginning to see again, a little bit of what we’re gonna be talking about. I think it’s him.
It could be somebody else. The critical essence of the human condition is movement through advancing time and changing circumstance. With preference. We prefer validating outcomes that confirm our position of worth among others and strive to minimize the experience of challenge and burden, how we move finds the quality of our lives.
So I thought that’s pretty cool and I’m gonna describe what that means and whatnot hearing a little bit. But Victoria, Victoria’s with us. Good evening ma’am. How are you? I’m doing well. And Ms. Casey Morgan still hanging? How are you? I’m doing great. Would you like to tell us about any No, I won’t go there.
sorry. I’m Let it go. We let it go.
Kasie Morgan: Let it go. Let
Chris Gazdik: it go. So I have that book out. Re understanding emotions of Becoming your Best. We are switching to YouTube in kind of [00:02:00] time, I guess, right? So we’re, we’re focusing a little bit on YouTube videos that I think that you really enjoy the YouTube channel. So we wanna highlight that and, and, you know, push that a little bit.
You, you have the subscribe button that I don’t know of a lot of people know on YouTube that you can like, subscribe, right? So it’s just like any other podcast that you find on your, your outlets. You click the subscribe button and then if you click the little bell that’s on there, that helps you to know that there’s a notification of, Hey, we’re live, we’re there.
Just like Facebook. And then you also have the comments on YouTube and we’re very active on all the comments on all the social media platforms. Might even kind of start getting you guys involved in like, you know, monitoring that and looking at that. That’d be kind of fun. Right, Right. Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. I can’t wait to have more responsibilities in my life.
Chris Gazdik: Vicky, Toya, do you understand this? Did you love
Victoria Pendergrass: Whoa, did he just call me? What? I think he just finally called me.
Kasie Morgan: Oh, you about called her the no no name. Oh, I didn’t, but I didn’t go. Okay. Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: you, you corrected yourself in time. I didn’t in
Chris Gazdik: time. [00:03:00] Five stars on Apple iTunes. Leave some comments. Spotify, LinkedIn, all those things.
Contacted through therapist eyes.com, how you interact with us. This is the human emotional experience and we do endeavor to figure this stuff out together. So what do you all think about alar psychology? I’m a
Kasie Morgan: fan. Yeah. Yeah. Is that
Chris Gazdik: surprising? No. Okay. No, not at all. Why would you think? I think that’s surprising.
Kasie Morgan: I don’t know cuz I’m really rooted into like today’s you’re kind
Chris Gazdik: of on all the neurology. Neurology. Yeah. By the other training I’m doing what is a poly vial theory. I love that. I know you do . I know you do. Did they give you any Freud base, his buddy Alfred Adler information in college? Victoria? Yeah, of course.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah, yeah. Now can I recall that verbatim? No.
Chris Gazdik: Can you recall that
Victoria Pendergrass: verbatim? Definitely not. But I mean, I think I. [00:04:00] Definitely use some Adler in my day to day.
Chris Gazdik: I think that actually we all do more than therapists think that we do, honestly. And I got an awesome renewal of that. So, you know, I’ve talked about on this show, the conferences that I go to and it’s kind of like, oh, mg like, you know, I gotta do another conference.
And I’m like prepared to like be horribly bored and terrifyingly frustrated by the whole, It’s your hair experience. I was gonna say yes. Is that better? That’s a little better. Yeah. Little. Okay. Well, is it sticking straight up? Yes. Thank you. You’re welcome. Now you gotta tune into the YouTube to see Chris’s hair sticking straight up in the air.
awesome. But anyway, I went to this conference down there and it was fantastic. I was engaged the whole time. I was so glad. Like I loved learning and I loved those kind of conferences. So this was the Adlerian Society in North Carolina that, that put this thing on. And so I got my brain just all in mushed again with the [00:05:00] foundations of where my training actually kind of came from.
So it was really refreshing question.
Kasie Morgan: Yes, it was the North Carolinian of Lian Society. Mm-hmm. , but it took place in South Carolina.
Chris Gazdik: Okay. It was probably
Kasie Morgan: the South Carolina. Okay. Just questioning like, just, just a quick question point of reference.
Chris Gazdik: If I’m gonna reference, I probably should reference correctly and you’re absolutely on point.
Thank you ma’am. No problem. . So this is. A guy, Alfred Adler, that I think probably a lot of people had never heard of him. Mm-hmm. . Right. And that is so sad because people have heard of Sigmund Freud like a lot, right? Yeah. And what I’ve learned is like basically these guys were boys, right? Like they were buddies, they were pals.
And were they besties? They were, no, they can’t be besties. We covered this already. Casey, we , we covered this already. Sigma. Troy had a
Victoria Pendergrass: bestie.
Chris Gazdik: [00:06:00] No he didn’t. You guys? Victoria, do you believe boys can be besties? I we’ll cover it. We’ll go there
Kasie Morgan: a hundred percent. Thank
Chris Gazdik: you. All right. We’re just not doing this anymore.
We’re, we’re done with that?
Victoria Pendergrass: Really? I mean, you probably wouldn’t use the term, but like, yes. Every band that I know has a bestie. Why
Chris Gazdik: wouldn’t you use the term Victoria?
Victoria Pendergrass: The term what bestie best for dudes. Well, I mean like, like I’m gonna continue to use my husband as an example. Be quite Casey. He’s not gonna, he’s not gonna refer to his best friend as a bestie.
Chris Gazdik: No, he would not.
But why? Without the butt. Why?
Victoria Pendergrass: I don’t know. Cuz he is weird. No, he’s not weird.
Chris Gazdik: He’s a dude.
Victoria Pendergrass: Are we gonna start stereotyping and what guys should, should not say, Oh,
Chris Gazdik: that mic. Go ahead. Neil
Neil: Guy friends aren’t besties. [00:07:00] That’s just not, that’s just not, you know, bros dudes, you know, best friends, you can say that, but you don’t say, I’m best saying,
Chris Gazdik: okay, now that we’ve lost all the subscriptions we’ve ever had to YouTube channel, I’m gonna pull us back.
Thank you to Arian psychology with some facts about where this began. He was an Australian medical doctor, which I think is cool because my Hungarian in Australian, you know, roots are like, you know, celebrated here. You Austria, Austrian. Yeah, yeah, right. So it and psychotherapist. And the point is that he died in May 28th, 1937.
So it’s an interesting notion that really, if you really think about it, I’ve talked about this before, like our whole conceptual theme in the mental health field is really new. Mm, 1937. Like, that’s just yesterday, right? So we haven’t even been around for a hundred years. Just think about it as an entire field.
Yeah. Yeah. And we, we tend to forget that. So he was interestingly the first to emphasize the importance of the social element in the [00:08:00] readjustment process of the individual. So a lot of the second half of what I call the tale of two tapes, biological side social and emotional side. I’ve talked about that before on the show.
So he’s really over here. He’s looking a lot at birth order and you know, relationships and foundational experiences, early recollections and what your subconscious is doing with them. It’s cool, Cool, cool stuff. Inner child work. Well, not quite that. We’re gonna lose everybody if we go there, but sort of, you know, sort of, yeah, really sort of.
It’s a really holistic approach. This is a cool thing to help you understand what we’re dealing with here. of, of Freud being in the analytical couch. Like people still every once in a very great while, but it will, I’ve been asked like about three or four times in my career, like, should I lay down on the couch?
Right? Mm-hmm. , have you been asked that yet, Victoria? Not yet,
Victoria Pendergrass: no. It’s gonna happen. I’ve had someone get like comfortable where they like [00:09:00] cross their legs up on the couch. Oh yeah. But I haven’t had anyone be like, Hey cow, lay down.
Chris Gazdik: How many times have you been Astor or Casey?
Kasie Morgan: Probably like six or seven times.
Oh, that many times.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Really?
Kasie Morgan: I’ve only had like three or, or so Definitely people that haven’t had a therapy experience before when they come in and see a crash. Right, right, right. Laid down or how does
Chris Gazdik: this, That is hysterical. I’ve only had it like three times as far as I can recall, but he moved us from the analytical couch in favor of the two chairs.
Mm-hmm. , like literally transitioned Freud stuff into like a lot of what we do, which is the foundational aspect, getting back to our topic emotions and how they drive us day to day. So it’s really, really cool stuff. I invite you to look into ad Larry and stuff for any therapist listening out there to really reinvigorate, you know, what it is that we’re talking about.
I was talking with John last night about this. Unfortunately John pops not with us tonight. He’s got his scheduling together[00:10:00] for next week. But basically it’s really refreshing because John looked at saying psychotherapy has become so manualized. Mm. Was his. Statement. Like, I wish he was here with us today to be able to talk about the depth of what he’s experienced, of how many years he’s been practicing.
Right, Right. It has changed. And I have concerns about for the not so good in a lot of ways. Really? Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: Huh? Are you gonna expound upon that?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. No. Okay.
Kasie Morgan: Or should I, I mean, I mean that’s up to you, but I mean, I How you take them. Why is that surprising to me? Because I feel like psychotherapy over, like the course of time that I’ve been in the field has really like like surpassed my expectations.
Recognizing early on that I agree with Dr. Pope, that it was very manualized, like when I was in graduate school. And then when you get in the field, I think there’s a whole new exploration of what it looks like. [00:11:00] And the reason why I am a proponent of, of Adlerian psychology is because, I believe in the social conversation that happens in therapy, and I think it’s now being explored even further.
I mean, with the advancements in telehealth and things that you’re able to do and be able to meet people where they are, no matter where they are and mm-hmm. , I don’t know. I just, I really feel like there’s been a lot of progression there. A lot of talks about mental health are now being broached across all facets of life.
Like the Carolina Panthers, our hometown football NFL team has an LPC on staff. Like, Wow. Oh, I think things like that are, are
Chris Gazdik: progressing. Let me jump in and back up in so far as yes, that, like I’ve talked about, the progression of awareness in our society. That is absolutely cool, and I think that’s around the world.
And interesting that maybe I’m going back and then in the middle and then now where we are is getting back to that a little bit. Quite possibly, because I [00:12:00] liked John’s quote. Mm-hmm. , Psychotherapy’s become so manualized. That’s what his quote was when we were talking last night. And that’s not good because it takes away all those things.
And so interestingly enough, I wonder if really in the last three, four years we’ve kind of started to come back as a field to some of those things. Cuz when I started in 97 or 2000 right, like that was a lot more ingrained. Like my supervisors were like psychodynamic supervisors. They were analysts, right?
We don’t use those terms anymore very much. Oh yeah. Would you agree, Victoria?
Victoria Pendergrass: Yeah. I mean I think it’s decreased a little bit. I mean, I definitely think that what I’m experiencing now in practice is not necessarily. Correlate to some of the things that I, we learned in grad school. Mm-hmm. . Fair enough. Far as that like background, and I mean obviously they teach it to us so that we know it, but I mean, I don’t think a lot of that stuff is used as [00:13:00] frequently because when
Chris Gazdik: we start talking about emotions on a day to day, on a real reality level now, it really is about that social interaction.
We know that in, you know, psychotherapy practices, the rapport and the relationship is one of the most important things to, to document and empirically research progress. That’s a key component. Yeah. I think beyond any manualized, whatever that you’re operating
Kasie Morgan: from. Absolutely. And I think what’s really helped us in that area is that the division between like the medical model of straight up, just.
Medicine and the functional model of like psychotherapy and the integrative process of trying to marry those two together has really helped forward that venture. So now when you go to the doctor, because you used to go to the doctor and say maybe you’re having symptoms of depression or anxiety, and like their answer was to give you a [00:14:00] pill and send you out the door, right?
Yeah. And now when you go to the doctor, sometimes depending on what doctor you go to, you can see a behavioral health provider that day. You, they suggest you get involved with therapy, that doctors are communicating with the therapist. We’re having like a whole system’s approach. To the functionality of how is this manifesting in your whole life instead of it’s definitely becoming vogue.
It’s your vog. Yeah. And so I think it’s, it’s no longer just like a niche.
Chris Gazdik: Definitely not your crazy Go see this
Kasie Morgan: guy. Right, exactly. And, and I think because of that, general practitioners are becoming more comfortable in addressing mental health and sessions with, with their primary care patients. And they’re building relationships in the community where there used to be a division.
And so I think that integrative process has really forwarded this concept of emotions are a real thing that we have to interface with on a daily basis. Right. Well, and how does that manifest in your life?
Victoria Pendergrass: Mm-hmm. and we were just having a conversation, what was it yesterday about EAP [00:15:00] and how you and I were Yeah.
Like, and how just we’ve seen like a huge increase in people. Using EAPs, which means saying that like it’s one of the covid outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. And well also I think that kind
Chris Gazdik: of helps, and EAP is employee assistance program. There are programs where you go to your employer to engage therapy. Yeah, right.
But I
Victoria Pendergrass: think that kind of like the integration of the medical and behavioral health side. Also the integration in like the workplace and being more like accepting of. Those emotions and feelings that you’re experiencing.
Chris Gazdik: We don’t hide ’em. We don’t, we don’t run from ’em as much as we, we used to. And so that’s why I think this, this, this title is gonna be catchy and catch people’s eye and listen to this because it drives day to day, like real.
Mm-hmm. experiences for sure. That, that people are, are having. And we wanna get in and understand those, those a little. Because I think that people are still mystified by this stuff, honestly. [00:16:00] Crazy, confused about what is my emotions and how do they drive me? Like this is an intriguing title. Right. I can just imagine you listening out there, right?
Like you’re saying, Well, I don’t even know what my emotions are. And, and to understand how they’re driving me day to day. Like, what do you got to say? ? Mm-hmm. about that. So let’s, let’s get into this a little bit and, and process through this. So, the fundamental questions that I want to start with is what do they really do for us?
Why do we have them in the first place? What is really going on in the purpose of, you know, emotions? Just if you think of, and we talked about this a lot during this, this conference that I was. From an Arian perspective, it really gets right at the core of this, from very early on in life. Mm-hmm. . And if you think about the, the, the emotional development of mankind and babies in our life [00:17:00] cycle development.
Could we function without emotions? Could, could you imagine what it would be like if we just developed intellectually in some way, or didn’t have the limbic system? Like that would be crazy functioning, wouldn’t it? It be what? Like the Borg and Star Treks or something like, Yeah. Spock. Spock. Did you know that Vulcans are actually highly emotional species?
Mm-hmm. , but they don’t want to be all over the place, and so they create massive logic to resist all of that. It’s almost. Full stoicism. Did you? So sorry.
Kasie Morgan: I did not nerd out right then. But , thank you for that explanation, . Well, it’s
Victoria Pendergrass: helpful for me cause I
Chris Gazdik: have no idea. Did I speak things that you already know or
Kasie Morgan: what?
No, no. I, I didn’t really know that, but that’s awesome. .
Chris Gazdik: I don’t know if she’s making fun of me, Victoria or not right now. , which
Kasie Morgan: one is the long and prosper ?
Chris Gazdik: Come on. Geez. [00:18:00] What happened there?
Kasie Morgan: That’s awesome though. Like, that’s cool. But, but yeah, I, I do think that that would be a hard existence, right? To, I do think that there are people that experience maybe what we call like neuro divergency that sometimes have impaired, like, empathetic systems in the brain, that they do function a lot out of the analytical brain and out of a non-emotional brain and a very rational brain.
And, and I think that, you know, they struggle sometimes with. Understanding social situations or like, primarily when I think of like the autism spectrum and everything’s on a spectrum. So not every person with autism struggles in that way. But I do think that some people with that, that are on the autism spectrum do often struggle emotionally and socially in situations because they don’t understand or they don’t empathize or they don’t, you know, speak the same emotional language as other people.
Chris Gazdik: [00:19:00] Absolutely. Victoria, let me put you on a spot. I don’t know if you saw the notes or not, but what would you say emotions like do for us, just from a very basic perspective, right? Like
Victoria Pendergrass: emotions for me tell, or in my opinion, I guess emotions help tell others what we need. Help tell ourselves what we need or what we’re lacking or what we’re looking for.
And I think, I mean, I feel like emotions are, are a form of communication.
Chris Gazdik: Mm-hmm. perfect. Yeah. No, you’re, you’re actually on point now. Did you look at all the notes or check out? No, that was that. I’m up on the
Victoria Pendergrass: back for that. Brains over
Kasie Morgan: here on point big, all brains
Chris Gazdik: next to me. Think about this from like a baby’s perspective, listening in your car or in your home, right?
Emotions give us existential personal feedback, just like you said, Victoria. Secondly, they really convey communication and then thirdly, they really engage. Action that we need to take. Like they trigger, they stimulate, [00:20:00] they create movement. And that gets back a little bit to what I think was Paul Ross Moens.
He was a presenter, well known guy in, he adlerian circles, I believe. And you know, his quote was talking about a lot of that from an LAR perspective, like ground level, bottom line emotions and how they create movement for us. Action and engaging. It’s like a baby. They don’t know. These arbitrary, crazy things that we created.
We literally just created words. , but you know, I mean, you’re a new mom, right?
Victoria Pendergrass: I was, I was literally just about to say, right. My six month old, he tells
Chris Gazdik: you exactly what needs to happen,
Victoria Pendergrass: right? Yeah. But, and he does it through, through emotions. Yeah. Like, he’s hungry. He has a certain cry if he wants to be picked up.
He has a certain, like, line about it. And, and new parents understand these
different,
Chris Gazdik: begin to read it. It’s amazing.
Victoria Pendergrass: So if he didn’t have those, if he didn’t have those emotions or a way of expressing those emotions, it died. [00:21:00] I w He wouldn’t function basically. Yeah. He would die because I wouldn’t know what to, what he needed.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. Yeah. It’s powerful when you really get at why human beings developed and created this and engaged with this stuff. And then it also just about ourselves, we teach ourselves, the emotions are reflecting, you know, like in our experience, what it is that we need to be aware of what it is that we’re operating with, what it is that we need to be alarmed with.
Casey, you’re talking about trauma all the time. You know, like that alarm goes off in our, in our emotional system cuz it’s telling us something.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, . I think of, I’m gonna have so many TV references from time to time, , but, okay. So there’s this episode of the fairly odd. Where Tim Turner, I can’t remember.
He asked to like, have no fear or have no feelings or like something like that. But I think fear was a specific one. What is it
Chris Gazdik: Just like a fictional or a tea or a It’s a [00:22:00] cartoon. It’s a cartoon. Cartoon. Thank you. Oh gosh. Okay. Don’t cartoons at this point.
Victoria Pendergrass: Anyways, so he has fairy fairy godparents who, who grant him wishes.
Okay. And he wished for like no fear or no emotions or something like that. And they get to a point in the episode like he’s about to, I think he’s about to walk into a volcano, like an active volcano because he literally has no fear. Like he has no Right. Nothing. And that’s it. Like, so then they, I mean eventually he gets ’em back and whatever, but like, I mean, just this doesn’t interesting.
I’d have to go back and re-watch it to try to function that way. Like, like to function without just those basic even emotions and like being able to. I mean even what kind of danger that would put yourself in if you literally had no fear. Like they
Chris Gazdik: really gotten me to be back steeped into like the fact that, and here’s almost a quote, right?
I was thinking for you, Neil, like what quote could we make out of this? [00:23:00] All emotions. Here’s a quote. All emotions have purpose. How about that? Right? All emotions have purpose, and purpose is not bad. So it’s inherently good. Right? Because we were talking about how all emotions are good. Mm-hmm. , there are no bad emotions because Emotions.
Yeah, Because emotions absolutely trigger what it is that you’re trying to. two, your desired state, your movement, and this is where Adlerian psychology gets at. What is your emotion? What’s your memories? How does that factor into what you’re moving to to get to, to a desired state? That’s the whole flow of how we’re an operation from day to day.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah, and and I would agree with that to an extent that having emotions are against, I think I know where you’re going and I like. I, I don’t want to stunt that progression for people and say like, you shouldn’t have emotions, but Right. Sometimes [00:24:00] our emotions lie to us. Oh, absolutely. They lie to us because they’re trying to keep us safe and that safety is created from those memories that a Larry addresses.
And so like that any therapist would address is that sometimes the emotions that we’re experiencing or re-experiencing are based out of a, a place of safety and it’s not always towards something that needs that level of emotion. Can you give an
Chris Gazdik: example, an interesting debate before we go and, and I’m almost Casey debating myself right.
With, with I I love that you just brought up the other quote that, you know, emotions lie to us cuz I, I, we’ve said that mm-hmm. before in a show and it’s, and it’s true, but it’s, it’s interesting to reevaluate that from, from this perspective that I’ve got in my mind with all of this content. Buzzed up in my mind.
They do lie to us, but at the same [00:25:00] time that they’re operating on something that isn’t necessary or learned. Dangerous, but it isn’t really dangerous. That’s like the lie, right? But, but at the same time that it’s kind of quote air quotes lying to us, is it still moving us to a desired state in a way that it doesn’t realize the way we want it to go?
I don’t know if that, I didn’t say that.
Kasie Morgan: Well, don’t, I don’t think that if they’re lying to us, if it’s a situation where emotions are lying to us to keep us safe, we’re typically not going to what I would perceive to be a desired state. I think it typically, typically puts us into a survival state. And sometimes that’s beneficial and sometimes it’s not beneficial.
And so I think like, just as an example, so if I’m like in the cafeteria and they’re not serving bacon that morning, like if I’m a little kid and they’re not serving bacon that morning and I have a complete meltdown, teachers might be like, Like, what is going on? You know, like, why, why are you having a complete meltdown?
Well, you know, if [00:26:00] food scarcity is something that I’m consistently Worried about, and that’s something that isn’t present for me. And then I get to the, the cafeteria and there’s no more bacon. I might have a complete meltdown based on what’s going on. So it’s disproportionate in putting me in a survival state when that’s not necessarily the desired state that I wanna be in.
And so I think that things like that, when we’re emotionally focused and our emotions are driving us, we have to often try to slow that process down and ask ourselves, where is this coming from? Just because I sometimes our emotions lie to us.
Chris Gazdik: Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna move on with some of other segments because I, you’ve, you’ve triggered thoughts in me and, and I love that.
I wish I would’ve been thinking about that over the course of this conference and all that I was in, because yeah. I’ve got some questions and, and, and doubts and not, not necessarily doubts. I don’t doubt it. How do we move with these different things? And this is, by the way, perfect, because, you know, there is [00:27:00] no model that works right back to the right, what we were talking about before.
Exactly. There’s, there’s no perfect fit for all, right? Mm-hmm. . But I do think, Neil, it’s still a good quote without objections of the forum, like , all emotions have purpose. I think that’s a, is does that sound
Kasie Morgan: right? Just like every behavior has a function. Right. All emotions have purpose. Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: Right, right.
Yeah. So, so let’s stay with that in the r long list of quotes that we want to use. But moving on to the next section, rate. Fundamental question, What do they do for us? They give us communication. They create motion and action. Mm-hmm. , right? And they create feedback to ourselves. What are two categories of emotions?
I thought this concept was cool because it, it, it triggers the movement, the, the, the, the motion that we’re trying to get to. So the way they broke this down was validating emotions and compelling emotions. So validating emotions are really like the outcomes that we seek [00:28:00] in the experiences that we have.
It’s the drive day to day today. That’s right. What we are looking for, it’s what we’re striving for that indicate, you know, like a job well done. They’re, they’re the success. They’re those validation moments, those, those pleasing experiences. And we’re, we’re all looking for those. It’s all those things that you would consider to be in a desired state.
And here’s what’s interesting. They call this the 20%. Hmm. Right. The 20% and the other emotions that we’re we’re focused on are the ones that compel, they create the energy they’re creating that push. So things that must be dealt with. This is the forcefulness of our emotional systems, forcing us to deal with something or forcing us to do something.
It’s like, get uncomfortable so that you can move, and then you get the validating emotions, the connection. So Victoria, your baby, for instance, like Yeah. Has [00:29:00] this fear that is there and they yell out. Mm-hmm. and they’re trying to get to this desired state, which is your beautiful, smiling face of reassurance to this little baby, right?
Oh
Victoria Pendergrass: yeah. Walk around the corner where you can’t see me and it’s like, oh heck is broken loose. It’s a problem. . I mean, that’s part of, also, cuz he’s at the stage where if he doesn’t see it, he doesn’t think it exists, but you know. Right. Developmentally there things. Right. Developmentally and so, but yeah, I mean, or if I’m in the room and he, like his need is to be comforted and to be held for whatever reason at that time, then he.
Reaches his arms up and he cries and he, This is the
Chris Gazdik: movement. Yeah, the engagement. Yeah. You know, emotions, like, it’s funny, right? Like, oh, and by the way, this, these, these compelling emotions, they call ’em the 80%. That’s why, you know, human beings are so negative, it seems, you know, I hear people jadedly saying this and whatnot.
Well, these [00:30:00] emotions of anxiety and ambivalence and fear and all of these types of things that are, you know, they’re not the desired state, but they’re very, very helpful for you in a lot of ways. And there’s, there’s some examples of, of why, but yeah, I
Kasie Morgan: often tell people when they come in and want help with anxiety.
I, I often reiterate the fact that we never wanna get rid of all anxiety. Right, Right. Absolutely. Anxiety keeps us alive. I do that all the time too, right? Yeah. Like we, we never want to get rid of all of our anxiety, you know? We just wanna manage it. And, and that’s really what you think you’re talking about in.
The management of emotions and trying to have movement towards something to get towards a desired state. The desired state in that case, and I think maybe you’re gonna talk about this in a little bit, but the desired state in that case is I want to be able to manage my anxiety so that I know when to react and not when to react Right.
And when to move in one direction instead of another and not feel like I’m unsafe all the time. Absolutely. Right?
Chris Gazdik: Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like [00:31:00] it’s just, it’s funny to me,
buddy, I gotta quote you. The truth is, I quote you oftentimes with this particular quote, it’s personal friend of mine, you know who you are out there, Adrian. He tells That’s
Kasie Morgan: Chris’s bestie. Yeah.
Victoria Pendergrass: No it is not. You almost said yes. You
Kasie Morgan: almost said yeah. Not okay. Sorry.
Chris Gazdik: Anyway, and I had a conversation with him about that.
I think he agrees with Neil and I. You guys know nothing, but anyway. No, nothing. It’s like going to therapy is taking your finger and jabbing yourself repeatedly in your eyeball is what a lot of times people feel right. Or fear, right? Because we’re dealing with emotions. Right. And who wants to deal with that?
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, yeah, I get a lot of half of my clients, right? Well, not half, but I have a number of clients that, you know, they’re in therapy because they want to be validated, that they’re not crazy or that the feelings that they’re feeling are valid and that, you [00:32:00] know, what they’re experiencing is valid.
Chris Gazdik: Right.
And it, it’s happening all the time. You know, It’s, it’s amazing to me too, people that are fearful of emotions. And then secondly, like, you come across people that are like, Oh yeah, I’m not very emotional. I, I just, you know, I don’t, I don’t really experience a lot. I’m, you know, it’s not a big deal for me and it drives me nuts.
And, and this is one of the big. Focus points that I’ve created in the book, re understanding emotions and becoming your best self because we are emotional every single moment of every single day.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. like when you walk into a room, your eyes give your brain visual acuity as to whether or not the space is safe or not immediately.
And then your brain decides for you what to pay attention to and what not to pay attention to. And you need what it does next. It activates your nervous system. Yeah. And that nervous system generates your emotions and your feelings. That’s
Chris Gazdik: what they, There are [00:33:00] there, you know, And it, and it really, and we’ve talked about this in the show too.
I mean, if you think about sort of getting back to the segment of what they are, I, I don’t think we even nearly understand all of these things because that, that is the simplistic of what we can say, the depth of what we can do under that is like hundreds of hormones, minerals. And vitamins and metal, electricity, all of our system, that’s what we feel.
That’s, it’s such an amazing creation that this body is, that you have and, and, and all of those dynamic things, whether you’re feeling numb or dumb or afraid or elated. There, there’s so many variations in the way that we’re operating and it is what drives us day to day.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Did you know that people that experience high levels of [00:34:00] anxiety, that they literally have done biofeedback on their bodies and their nerve endings are literally located closer to their skin, like closer to that outer
Chris Gazdik: epidemic?
I did not know that, but I would believe that. Mm-hmm.
Kasie Morgan: environmentally, like you even have a higher chance of having higher anxiety just because your nerve endings are located. Just closer to your skin. In your body. And
Chris Gazdik: you know what, We’ll, we’ll go into that because there might be a dynamic understanding that we don’t have yet about what your emotions are doing.
If it sees something in your life, your spirit, I like to say you’re subconscious. Right? That’s speaking to you. It might literally create biological differences. Mm-hmm. that way because it has chronically interpreted accurately. Yes. Sometimes they lied to us, but accurately like, Hey, this needs to engage now, this body, this system, this organization I loved, what was the movie?
Victoria, you might be able to pull the, the, the Emotions movie with the baby in the brain. Oh, Inside Out. Inside Out. Love it. Yeah. Great movie. [00:35:00] Why they did not do a sequel yet. Pisses me off. I think they’re coming out.
Kasie Morgan: They’re coming out. They’re
Chris Gazdik: coming out the same. They got to because that perfectly describes or defines it like, you know, not describes, creates, What does that dos trying to say that it depicts Perfect word.
Thank you for the. Totally depicts what’s wrong. You’re welcome on in the brain. It’s amazing.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. And how it drives us. Like literally they’re driving the brain in that movie, right? Yeah. It’s a great film. If you haven’t checked it out inside Out, it’s a Pixar film. It’s great. I also think that biologically under understanding how our bodies operate and adjust can be attributed to, to when your brain is in like a hyper state of arousal or excited or in a survival state, depending on your situation it often re acclimate itself to that being your norm.
So I think you’re very much onto something that with evolution of the body, that if your active state [00:36:00] has been hyper arousal of the hypothalamus and the amygdala and the. Which is that that fire alarm of the brain that we often talk about and it stays in that state for a long period of time. Because what you’re enduring, and I’m thinking about people who are in like civil war situations throughout our nation, or not our nation, but throughout the world and things like that, where it’s just chronic, chronic acute stress on the nervous system.
Then what happens with our brain is it reims itself to saying like, this is your norm. So sometimes it can even feel uncomfortable for it to be relaxed. Mm-hmm. . And so that’s when you find that it seems backwards. It does seem backwards, but I get it. But, But you see that a lot. I see it a lot when I work with people who have maybe have been in domestic violence situations.
Mm-hmm. that they start picking partners after they get out of the domestic violence situ. They, they want more chaotic types of partners moving forward because it’s uncomfortable, the stability feels uncomfortable. If I’m not in that constant state, my body starts to seek it out [00:37:00] because that’s where I feel the most comfortable.
I’ve also seen it in my personal life as a therapist, right? So vicarious trauma or compassion fatigue, whatever you wanna call it, when you work in a human service industry, for those of you who are first responders, are chronically interfacing with the day to day ongoings of society, that that’s both the sublime and the really, really upsetting your brain reims to how you feel and how you become activated to what people tell you.
And I will never forget this as long as I live when I was running er. And listening to people’s trauma stories, and I was just blowing through sexual trauma questions when they were responding with, Yes, I’ve experienced sexual trauma. I’m moving on to like, Okay, so do you use nicotine like ? When I caught myself transitioning between those questions, I realized like it came into very sharp focus.
Yeah. That I was really desensitized Yeah. To some of this information because my brain has reassembled itself around the shock factor when someone [00:38:00] tells you that. Right. If you’re in this line of work, let’s just
Chris Gazdik: pause, because I, I think we have a lot of therapists that do listen to show and, and check things out and, and, and for new therapists as well as therapists that have gotten in a little while.
That’s a good really teaching moment, Casey, and thank you for the courage to Sure. To share your own process with that. I, I snickered and laughed a little bit because I, I’ve been there. Mm-hmm. , right? You, you, you do, you know, Need to realize, like the emotion of what it is that we’re dealing with when, when they’re relaying these, these, these stories and these experiences and, and you really do get kind of desensitized and you almost kind of forget.
And then you’re like, Yeah, well let me go. I, I have questions to ask on my assessment. You know? Yeah. Sometimes I have put my whole process down, like, I’ve been doing this so long that I’ve got like, you know, a whole thing. It’s, it’s just, and, and I move with the conversation. It’s an art to it. It’s amazing to be able to engage and they give me information and I move around and all my questions and get stuff, you know, Cause I’m getting the big picture, [00:39:00] but sometimes I’ve just completely abandoned that mm-hmm.
and I want to give therapists permission. I know you got, you know, complicated challenges with, well, what diagnosis do I have to figure out and what information do I need to get and I need to do a good job by, you know, as, as going back to what John said, right? Like, you know what was it? Manualizing them.
Manualizing. Yeah. I was saying monitoring manualizing. Mm-hmm. our care. No, you know what? Throw that shit away. Stop. And, and, and understand that what you’re doing is being with somebody. Mm-hmm. , right? And what emotion they’re having at the moment. And just be present
Kasie Morgan: that love that. Because that in essence, Sorry, Victoria.
No, you’re good. Go ahead. Go ahead. But that in essence is everything I believe like at Larry really wanted was the concept of presence. Right? Right. And when you’re emotional systems are hijacked by situations when your emotions are lying to you, when your emotions are overactive because of what’s [00:40:00] going on in the environment, Yes, it creates movement.
But what it also creates is a situation where it makes it harder for you to be present. And so I think you have to tap in to where are my emotions right now, because it, it will prevent you from being operational in the present moment if they force you in. To focusing on the future or force you back to refocusing on the past.
So I think that is one important distinction from earlier when we were talking about like emotions and things like that. Yeah. And I say emotions lie to you. That’s one distinction that I think can happen sometimes is that you want to be able to function from a place of presence. So if your emotions are bumping you out from being present, that is something to focus on and to work through and to realize like, how do I get myself back into regulation?
You know what’s
Chris Gazdik: interesting with, with that debate that just occurred to me, you know, emotions lied to us versus they always have purpose and, and, and they’re pushing to a direction of a desired hired state when we’re not [00:41:00] paying attention. It’s such a, this is gonna be twisted. Okay, Bear with me for just a moment.
Cause it gets, it what drives us day to day, right? Our emotions. What are, how are they driving us? Isn’t it like possible because people are afraid of their emotions. Mm-hmm. , they, they don’t want their emotions to be present. That okay? In reality. When the times come up where the emotions are more likely, air quotes, right?
Like lying to us, are those the emotions that we’re almost triggering to counteract the balance of the emotions that we don’t really wanna be in? I wonder if there’s some of that that goes on in, in sort of an intermingled double bind, right? Like the emotions are having two purposes at once. Does that make any sense?
Cause it
Kasie Morgan: It does, but I also think that what happens is what we call blocking, right? Well, that’s that essent essentially. Okay. Yeah. The brain senses the overactivation of the nervous system and then immediately blocks. And I think that that’s, [00:42:00] Happens a lot when people come into my office. Right.
Chris Gazdik: And that’s like the, the lie just kind of part, right?
Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: Right. Yeah. Cuz people will say like, I’m dis dissociating, like in moments and things like that. Which association’s a big part of that. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And and that’s really what’s happening is it’s like even if you think about like even if you think about this medically, right? You have a surgery, then they give you nerve block when you have the surgery, right?
Because they want you to not have to experience the traumatic pain that is happening to your body. So they give you a nerve blocker and then you get outta surgery and you’re like, I feel great. Like everything’s fine. Yeah. And then you go home and as that nerve block wears off more and more and more each day you’re like, oh my gosh.
Because now you’re feeling everything. Absolutely. And if you think about that, that’s kind of how our emotions work. Our brain senses that our nervous system is overactivated, it starts to block. And then as that block goes further and further away from where we’re protected in that moment, We start to feel everything and sometimes it can be like a sense of flooding.[00:43:00]
Chris Gazdik: So let’s, let’s go. So where we’re at so far is what emotions are, where they come from, right? Like what their purpose is. So taking a break to think moment, you know, again, our questions, right? Are you aware of what you feel and how you feel? Where do they come from? Understanding what our purpose of the emotions are.
Those are some of the questions that we have and I think we’re doing a good job. Mm-hmm. moving through that. Wanna do a little section then as well, now on. H how life experiences create those. So just, just think about these things for a moment. And I, and this will just do a short segment. I want the both of you to, to, to think about these as I read through the different things that where they, they came from my, my little list, which by the way, moving back just a little bit, Victoria, just so we learn how, how I do this.
Sometimes my brain will go off on that little skip that I just did. I got it right. Like, and I’m good because I love thinking in a moment and creating, and I wanna invite you guys to do that as well in a case. I’m keeping up. I know you will. And do [00:44:00] mm-hmm. . . So anyway how they teach us. So think about what we talked about in emotion focused therapy.
Last time we met mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I wanna go back to something that I didn’t get to talk about while layering. That’s the only I wanna spend some specific time on. But then think about the cultural influences in what your emotions are and how you’re operating. Think about your family’s culture. And what your family does, how your family does, what your family does, like that has a big influence.
Think about the positive, validating influences of people that are in your life that that, that that grandma or, or that that uncle, your favorite aunt. These are, these are figures that have an indelible imprint on your, on your life. Cultural influence, experiences that compel, Right? These are things that you remember.
That’s why when we do this in therapy, we’re looking at early recollections [00:45:00] and what does that mean, right? These things all move around and I want you to just think for a minute about how that operates. It makes me sad, Casey, because I think of you when we were talking about mass shootings. One of the things that are universal, you said, and I think you were on point, is somebody that has zero adult connection.
Mm-hmm. that’s validating. Their emotional existence. Think about that. Think about that. How does emotions drive your day to day? Well, dang. In a real negative way there. Mm-hmm. scary. So much so that babies die when they don’t have that nurturance and, and touch. Yeah. You know, in nurseries, this is how powerful they can drive you day to day.
So we take the good and we take the bad. Right.
Kasie Morgan: And then you have, you have the Facts of life.
Victoria Pendergrass: Yes. . I
Kasie Morgan: love it. You know what that show
Chris Gazdik: is? Dang [00:46:00] it. Oh dang it. Dang it. Watch family. The Family Channel. . But I love that and I’m glad you joined me on that. I did that purposefully , because I love the way that they engaged that in that show in the eighties.
It’s an eighties show. Mm-hmm. , What is the story called? The Facts of Life. Facts of Life. Where Oh, kids were, Yeah. Kids were taken care of by this month. Yeah, I know that is, Sorry. So, so think about those indelible imprints. What, what is my, my thoughts? Offering for you, Victor and Casey, when you think about how all these things operate together here.
Go for
Victoria Pendergrass: it. Casey. I just, Yeah, you were teasing.
Kasie Morgan: No, I automatically go back to, So I, I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about him on this show, but in my family of origin, I have a stepfather, right? And he is one that practically like raised me with my mom and everything. Okay. I love him. He’s wonderful.
Yeah. And so I played basketball and if you’ve ever noticed my stature, I don’t think I’ve ever stood up on camera. I’m not very tall , and I’m also not very fast. Okay. Okay. So never have been, never will be. Like, that’s just the facts of life. Okay. And so [00:47:00] take the good . So in basketball, like, just, this will be a real quick anecdote, but in basketball you’re usually either a guard or a forward or the center.
Definitely not the center. Not tall enough, definitely not fast enough to really be a guard. So I would become what we would call like a small forward or a forward. Well, in that position, I’m playing against people that are like six feet tall in high school. Okay. And I’m five five on a good day. Yeah. So anyhow, my dad would take me outside and teach me how to be tough and play basketball.
And I will never forget this as long as I live. If things would hurt, he would look at me and this is part of my culture today. And he would say, Is it a hurt? Or is it an injury? Yep. Love it. Right? Yeah. That was the teaching that goes on there. Yeah. Cuz it helped me learn the difference between something like temporary pain and something that is more than painful that needs addressing and needs assistance.
And so even today I find myself asking my [00:48:00] kids, is it a hurt or an injury?
Neil: Absolutely. Yeah. Is that where your daughter got her basketball skills? Where you had her What? She pushed another kid. ?
Kasie Morgan: No, she hip tossed that kid. Oh yeah. That’s what it was. She hip tossed him .
Chris Gazdik: And I think to, to, to stay with this little segment a little bit longer and I wanted to go back and cover the emotion focus therapy component cuz we, it was a very important part that we didn’t get to cover that goes with this.
The idea here is with this little segment that life experiences like you just shared mm-hmm. . And thank you for sharing it. It’s a beautiful. You know, and we can, I, I think all of us will, will listen to you talking there. And I thought of multiple different interactions with me to my kids and mm-hmm. , you know, and imprints that I’ve had from experiences.
Remember we were talking about with the emotion focus therapy have engulfment and abandonment, right? These are primary insecurities that operate with, with that, with that model. And you, you have layering that occurs and so you fall on the razor’s edge. Why are we on one side or the other? As a [00:49:00] question I always get with that and I can’t answer it cuz it’s so early on, I guess, you know, the, the baby and whatever you’re, you’re, you fall on one side or the other.
But then once you have that imprint of, of particular fear on one side or the other, you will go through life experiences and I call it layering these life experiences, drive your emotions to tell you what to be harmed by and to how to avoid it. And so you’ll see all kinds of situations that you’re.
Overrun and criticized, and you know, that’s the engulfment side. You’ll also see all sorts of experiences through life where you’re abandoned or you’re not treated as valued or important. Why do we clue in on one or the other of the categories is, is what I want to hit at? Mm-hmm. because we that we have an interaction with the environment, we have an interaction with these life experiences.
And for somebody who’s in the abandonment camp, you’re probably disregarded because those engulfment experiences weren’t that fearful for you. Whereas somebody who’s in the engulfment camp, you ever [00:50:00] really didn’t worry about the en abandonment fear moments that got. Tricked off all throughout your life cycle, but when you have one or the other, you notice all of the ones that you’re particularly concerned with.
So I, we didn’t get to talk about that last time, and it fit with this experience of where life experiences interact with your emotions day to day.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. And I think that makes a lot of sense because if you really like delve into that further and you think about kind of the characteristics that we covered last time, what I think you begin to find is that this is not, and I’ve said this on the show before, this is not about what’s wrong with you.
It has everything to do with what has happened to you within you and around you.
Chris Gazdik: And we build off of that Yeah. With the idea that emotions oftentimes, if not always have that purpose. Purpose. Yep. Right.
Kasie Morgan: And that’s right. And so like, so we can embrace them. Yeah. We just have to embrace them. Right. And, and interface with them.
Because what happens. I, [00:51:00] if we avoid them, is that in the temporary, we will sta off emotional pitfalls. Yep. But in the long term uhoh, they will come back and bite us in the rear.
Chris Gazdik: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Victoria, What, what were you thinking? You, Why did you say Uhoh? ? I was playing off of her.
Victoria Pendergrass: Oh, sorry. You saw bug or something?
I was about to. Okay. and you looked at the
Chris Gazdik: ground over. We had a thing going there. You know, Catch this spider. I’m Al Victoria. We, we, we left you a little bit. I mean, I wanna check in when, Yeah,
Victoria Pendergrass: sorry. No, I completely agree. And I, I actually recently heard, saw from this I follow this other therapy practice called the Expansive group.
Yeah. Okay. And they just put on Instagram or some whatever the, the other day about how like you have to feel your feelings in order to. Like, move on with your life. Mm-hmm. , in order to get through whatever you’re going through, you have to actually feel your feelings. Right. And so, [00:52:00] Absolutely. And you can’t expect to make progress therapeutically in life or whatever if you don’t address those feelings.
If you don’t feel them. I think,
Chris Gazdik: I think, honestly, Victoria, it’s just like we were saying there, it’s just an allowance, you know? Mm-hmm. , you, you, they don’t even have to, like, you get to decide what your legs do. You get to decide what your mouth says. You, you absolutely are in control of yourself in a lot of ways.
I mean, I know in some ways we’re not, but without way over analyzing that ladies, Right? Right. Like if you allow emotions to be present with you mm-hmm. , you still have choices. And I think people get fearful of that. And so you’re right. You can’t grow without allowing that. You can’t Well, yeah. Understand without allowing that Yeah, go ahead.
I tell
Victoria Pendergrass: my students like, all the time that the feelings you have are valid. What you’re experiencing is valid. Even sometimes when, when they, your feelings lie to you. It’s what you do with those [00:53:00] feelings. It’s how you respond to those feelings is how you act. Like if you’re feeling angry, I was literally just talking to a kid about this today.
Okay? If you’re feeling angry and you, you have options, right? You can flip the table, you can throw the chair, you can punch a hole in the wall, right? Whatever. But what kind of outcome? What kind of consequences are those gonna bring? But if we. Go the other way. We take our deep breaths, we communicate that we’re feeling angry, we’re, we feel the anger, but we, what we do with that is what matters and how, and
Chris Gazdik: what understanding we get from
Victoria Pendergrass: it.
Right. And yeah. And what it means, Like, what it means, what we’re trying to communicate when, when we’re feeling that anger.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve said it before on the show too, like if you don’t feel the feelings, then you become them. Mm-hmm. . And I think that that is the biggest difference I, I believe between Adler or Adlerian theory and psychodynamic, right.
Is that Freud would say you become them. And Adler would say, Yeah, hold on. [00:54:00] Like, hold on a second. Like, you can feel them process through to not have to become them.
Chris Gazdik: I, I, yeah, I, I, I, we won’t go, we don’t have time to go into that. But that, that is a, that is a perfect little spot. And if you’re a therapist listening out there d dive into that and think about that and, and, and research that, because that’s really on point.
Or if you’re just interested in, in emotional things, because that, that is a, a, a big push and pull mm-hmm. between the way that those things really, really work. But we have to, to move on. Let, let’s move on to a very short section. I, I was thinking about, I need to blow this off in it, but I don’t want to because it’s, it’s a spot of understanding and, and I think this is where we get to as well, Casey, where, you know, emotions came a lot to us.
We do know that there are mental health conditions. Right. Yeah. Right. It’s a biological, predisposed, genetic [00:55:00] realities that we’re learning about now. It’s such a dynamic thing. Because of some of the emotional ground swell of what we’re talking about here can be chronic in your life, that the emotions can create themselves into a condition.
I know that there’s a dynamic interplay between all of these things, but I just wanna give a little bit of credence because in my tale of two tapes, I look at the biological side and then the social and emotional side. And a lot of the Adlerian stuff really is on this side. I said at the stop of the show.
But I just wanna give credence that I think that when you’re born genetically predisposed to your body’s operating with these chemicals in the way that it does with just say bipolar or with you know, o c d, you know, there’s such an interplay. And I just, I just want to have that as a, as a, as a mention today.
Does that mm-hmm. .
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. And I think that to even go back to earlier in the, in the podcast when we were talking about the annualization and the progression of [00:56:00] psychotherapy. I think that is one big area is that before, and maybe you experienced this when we were looking at assessments, right? We didn’t always include like gestation of the mother No.
Right. And things like that. Yeah. But what we know is now, sometimes even in utero, it’s a factor. The stress that is supplied to the mother during pregnancy and gestation of the fetus, the fetus has an impact on the nervous system of that baby.
Yeah.
Chris Gazdik: It’s the whole idea of, you know, have, have, have you sun, you know, Did you guys talk to your baby when he was in utero?
Right? Oh yeah. You’re singing and you’re talking and you literally read books to your baby who’s not porn yet. Absolutely. That is important connection and they know your voice. Right. They do. Yeah. Well, they come out in this world and they see all this crazy shit going on all around and with lights and dark and everything, and then they hear that voice again, like mm-hmm.
Yeah. This stuff. Yeah. I could go on and on with that. Right. But
Kasie Morgan: I think that’s one progression is now we include that [00:57:00] in like a, An assessment. An assessment,
Chris Gazdik: yeah. Yeah. Right. I think you’re right. Absolutely. So let’s look you a little bit, Do we cover Yeah. We, we have to be so brief with that, but thank you for giving validation to that honorable mention.
I hope your emotions are okay. They are examples of emotions in how they work. Right. I thought it was cool actually. I don’t like handouts and stuff very often, but I wanna use this cause I, this was interesting in what they created and I don’t know, I guess this is Paul Rasmus again. I’m gonna give him credit.
He was an awesome instructor. Well, if you’re listening Mr. Rasmus, Dr. Ra Muse. You’re supposed to be emailing me back so we can have you on the show, but I’ll leave that alone. I don’t have that paper for now. I know because y I didn’t want you to have it. Oh, thanks. Oh, right. So here’s what I want you to do.
They looked at these emotions, and Victoria, they, they took the emotion and looked at what the movement is and what it, what it does. And I don’t have time to go through all of ’em, but I want you to stop [00:58:00] me when you hear one that’s interesting, that you want to hear the way they go with it. Here’s an example, right?
Anxiety is one that people use a lot, and I’ve already thought about this a lot, right? So this is the battle emotion. And listen to a way they get this description of anxiety and how it creates movement, okay? Right. The emotion that lose for loose ends anxiety energizes us so that we can deal with the current threat to our physical or psychological wellbeing, similar to the fear, but differs by occurring in more ambiguous circumstances.
Rather than in response to something specific. So you see how they’re, they’re giving it really cool depiction of like, not a definition of anxiety, but like how it creates movement. Hmm. So here’s what I wanna do. You both get to choose one. I’m gonna read down through these emotions, and you choose one that’s interesting.
I’ll stop there and tell you what it, what it says. So, anger, this is your choice, Victoria. Anger, anguish. Boredom. Contempt. [00:59:00] Stop me when you hear one that you want to go with or what you, So contempt. Contempt. So contempt. This is a, i I just, I just noticed this intently in a client this afternoon as well.
Okay. Right. The distancing emotion. Okay. We rely on contempt to create psychological distance from a person, group, or object through contempt. We seek to deny affiliation with the people or objects. The feeling Hate is a very strong version of contempt. We develop hate for those objects and people whom in some way contribute to our feeling bad about life or bad about ourselves.
Do you see like this and, and I was working with somebody on this one. I’m glad you picked it. Nice, nice play. Yeah, right, because it, you know, he, he had such negative regard for a family member growing up, and it was creating all of this energy, and I’m telling you, it’s a phobia. It’s one of those [01:00:00] situations where almost like, I know that there’s the condition, we just said that, but how much of his life experiences we’re creating, like this contempt that he had, this intense way of keeping people away.
And we connected some of those dots. Mm-hmm. , right? You look weird.
Kasie Morgan: I just feel like some of this is watering down a little bit. What do you mean the emotion? Like I understand the reframe and trying to make it seem like this. It’s connected to a purpose and the function of the emotion. And I get like what the handout is doing.
Right. But I feel like when I’m seeing like contempt in someone, it’s not a distancing practice that goes well ever.
Okay. It’s so, it’s pretty insulting most of the time and somewhat hostile if you’re practicing. Oh, absolutely. Or having contempt field [01:01:00] emotions is, Well, I’m saying
Chris Gazdik: Okay. Right. But think about it, Casey, from that person’s perspective, who’s dishing out that contempt mm-hmm. . Right. It definitely will serve the purpose for that person dramatically, sometimes, particularly when you fall into real hateful spots.
And we do see this intensely in marriages a lot.
Kasie Morgan: Got it. Got it. I see what you’re saying now, right? Like, it’s not about like what we would say, like, these emotions help us do. It’s so, Okay. So it’s more so like what it’s doing for you in the moment, right. Is like basically putting that forearm out and saying, Get away from me, and you don’t
Chris Gazdik: even realize it.
Got it. Sometimes when you’re doing that, but what your emotional system is doing is, for whatever reason, I don’t feel safe, and I’m throwing this contempt out, Victoria, forgive me. I don’t mean any of this. Yeah. For, I’m gonna throw this out of Victoria. You’re a a, a, a small person that has no integrity and talking to us the way that you’ve talked to us [01:02:00] today.
I’m just contemptuous. This is gonna put her out the door. Yeah. And that’s what my emotional system interpreted. That will accomplish.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. Right. Like basically like you’re trying to shut something down. Right. Or move on from it or move away from it. Got it. Right. Okay. I, I see it now. Yeah, I get it now.
Chris Gazdik: So let’s go a little further.
You get, choose one. Disappointment, depression, disgusted, dread, embarrass. Envy. Envy was a fun one. Envy. I thought you might stop there. I don’t know why. . Okay. This is the desire emotion. Hmm. Right. We feel envy for something that holds promise for validating, enhancing the self. It may lead to obsessional thinking, but we get obsessed with things and people that hold self-defining promise.
So it’s interesting, right? Like, I don’t know. The way I take that is we’re, we’re really looking for that validation. There’s envious for, you know, coveting what somebody else has. It’s like [01:03:00] it has a purpose, right? Like it’s, Oh yeah. It’s trying to feed yourself and get validated to feel okay. Like, I don’t know.
It’s, I love the way they’re reframing. I’ll let you guys check this out. Yeah, I like
Victoria Pendergrass: that a lot. I don’t usually Okay. Are you, do you usually attach stuff to the podcast? Like note show
Chris Gazdik: notes. Yeah. We’ll get it in the, in the show notes kind of as well. But I was just saying for you guys, cuz I don’t like handouts.
I don’t use ’em anymore. I don’t keep ’em. The fact that I kept this one dude, like it was pretty, that means a lot. Yeah.
Kasie Morgan: In my mind to me. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The way that you can connect to a person and kind of be where they are in the moment, it’s really about like, being present with that feeling, right?
And instead of seeing it as like a super overpowering, negative emotion, Right? When you understand the purpose and the function, what is it driving the body, Right?
Chris Gazdik: Which perfect right, Casey. Mm-hmm. . And you know, I love that we were able to interact and we got off track and back on track because that’s what people have been doing in their cars or their homes listening to this show, right?
Like, again, understand what’s driving you motions day to [01:04:00] day in the day to day operation. Just stop. Just think what is this operational for me? Allow it to be present and then work with it. Because you know what, you’re gonna always disregard it a minute from now if you want to again. But if you let it be there, they really oftentimes are doing you a massive favor in your life.
Mm-hmm. , they’re scary, they’re uncomfortable, they’re difficult. I feel like I’m doing my show summary up right now. Sure. Ready to turn the mics off. But you know, like allow that, it’s such a missed opportunity when people numb out and don’t allow that.
Kasie Morgan: Yeah. You know? Agreed. And I think that once you accept them, if they feel uncomfortable, then you can commit to change.
But your comfort zone does not give you any growth. I like
Chris Gazdik: that when I highlight. Before we get outta here, episode 1 73 and 1 74, the implicit bias shows that we did it is right in stock barrel with this stuff. You’re [01:05:00] subconscious, you’re implicit bias. Those shows dealt with this, and we’re dealing with it again because it’s part of the way that our bodies operate.
We don’t have a lot of time to get at, you know, the insecurities that we talked about last week. We did a little bit with the layering, but you know, think about examples of emotions working for us, what we talked about last week with the EFT and what’s going on in your marriage. Chronic conversations like that’s what it’s doing for you.
Stop, pay attention to that cycle and figure out in a different direction what you’re trying to get. Convey that to your partner and you’ll connect a lot better. But that’s so hard to do. I know. Trauma and the effects of trauma. Other examples you were talking about that Casey Yeah, earlier. So there’s, you know, this is cool stuff because it’s really happening all the time, day to day.
And I hope that we’ve given you a little bit of an idea of, of what they’re, what they’re doing for you. Yeah. Closing thoughts, comments, guys? Things that you’re thinking.
Victoria Pendergrass: I mean, I think our lives would [01:06:00] be very dull and boring without emotions, wouldn’t they?
Chris Gazdik: Indeed. , She even says that like,
Victoria Pendergrass: Sorry, I did say that very du And for, Yes,
Kasie Morgan: What’s the function of boredom?
Chris Gazdik: You can say boredom actually. Where is that? Is that on there? ? We gotta go there if we have it. I think we do. Boredom is the entertain me emotion. Oh, right.
Victoria Pendergrass: Entertain me
Chris Gazdik: guys. Come on. Boredom indicates a lack of positive stimulation. Boredom compels us to seek an improved level of stimulation.
Example, D Doodling. Doodle. Doodling. Doodling. D O O D. Yeah. Yeah. Like doodle drama to enlist others as a source of stimulation. That serves a purpose. That
Kasie Morgan: really makes sense for you, Victoria . Yeah. And
Chris Gazdik: with that, we’re, Listen, take care. Have a great week. Appreciate you guys being here. Of
Victoria Pendergrass: course.[01:07:00]