In Episode 369 of Through a Therapist’s Eyes, we look back at August 2026 to tackle complex intersections of mental health, physical well-being, and human resilience. We break down the heavy legal and clinical questions surrounding the Lindsay Clancy case—examining where severe mental illness meets legal responsibility—and explore the troubling rise of Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome alongside the nuanced debate over Kratom and harm reduction. Finally, we pull key insights from our recent conversations with music producer Hunter Davidsohn on finding hope while living with chronic pain, paired with the science of post-traumatic growth, to offer actionable guidance on building genuine emotional resilience through life’s hardest seasons.
Tune in to see the August Month in Review Through a Therapist’s Eyes.
Links referenced during the show:
Current events: Lindsay clancy case: To be full episode,
Cannabis hyperemesis syndrome (CHS)
https://www.throughatherapistseyes.com/category/podcasts/monthinreview
Intro Music by Reid Ferguson – https://reidtferguson.com/
@reidtferguson – https://www.instagram.com/reidtferguson/
https://www.facebook.com/reidtferguson
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3isWD3wykFcLXPUmBzpJxg
Audio Podcast Version Only
Episode # Transcription
Chris (00:01) Hello, this is Through a Therapist's Eyes episode. What is this episode anyway? Neil (00:07) Three sixty nine. Chris (00:08) Thank you for saving me, Neil, who comes out behind the curtain here for the last week in the ro in the month. We do a month in review. So this is August the twenty-seventh, and so we are doing the month in review of August. And we got some cool shows that we did, but only two. So we have current events that we're gonna talk about. And I'm excited about that because so this will be kind of a fun show, fun conversation. I'm really excited to see what these guys are gonna say about these current events with the Lindsay Clancy case. We're gonna talk about that and kick through that. We haven't talked about this at all. So of course it's going to be our current event because everybody's talking about it. Everybody has an opinion about it. And it is a dramatic court case to say the least. Then I have a brand new thing that I came across and found. Call about cannabis, and it's called cannabis hyperemes syndrome. Hyperemesis syndrome. And I didn't even know this was a thing, but I learned from a client. I think it was a client. Yeah, I know exactly who it was. Yeah, yeah. She she taught me about this thing because she works in the emergency department, and so that's fantastically curious. You young folks that smoke a lot really need to hear that segment. And then lastly, marijuana or I'm sorry, Wall Street Journal show on Kratom and what that's doing with addiction. So I I'm seriously, like I think the current events are gonna be fun. But anyway, I am your host, Mr. Kyle King hangs out with us at the end of the month. How are sir? Kyle (01:49) Doing well. Hope everybody Chris (01:51) Yeah? Kyle (01:52) else is. Chris (01:53) Did you have a good did you have a good month, man? Kyle (01:55) I did. It was good. You know, got to play lots of golf. you know, you go figure. and work's been Chris (02:00) Still, he's still doing it. Kyle (02:02) good, so yeah, I'm still doing it. Chris (02:06) And then Neil, how are you, sir? Have you had a good month, a good week? I guess we talked to you last week. Neil (02:12) Yeah, it's been good. We've things have been calm, but the next two months are gonna be really busy with my wife's art events and stuff, so I've kind of enjoyed the knock so crazy. Got the first Western game this weekend, so it'll be good. Chris (02:28) College football, NFL, fantasy football is here. for the public masses, of course, Neil. Were you happy with your draft pick this year? Were you happy Kyle (02:38) Yeah. Chris (02:38) with your enough notice? Did you get did you get everything you needed there, brother? Is it how how you doing there? Neil (02:43) I'm really glad you didn't try to screw me over by scheduling it when I couldn't do it. So I appreciate it. And I I I d there were draft there were picks I wasn't sure about, but overall I think I'm pretty happy. Chris (02:55) This guy, Kyle. This guy. Kyle (02:59) That was funny. It's all about the pics. Chris (03:00) This is where you get insights about about mental health and substance abuse, not fantasy football, from a panel of therapists normally through the week. the but knowing is not delivery of therapy services in any way. Understand that the therapists on this panel are licensed clinical therapists doing real clinical work every day. And this is where we talk honestly and openly about what actually works. So that's what you get here on Through a Therapist Dyes as we blow up myths and stereotypes about mental health. And man, we are going to do that with this court case, hopefully. Man, it's a big deal. lots going on there that's very applicable to what we do on this show. we oftentimes have three content questions that we ask you to think about during the show on the month in review. We don't. We have instead the down the rabbit hole with Mr. Kyle King is what we do here in a moment. He has a news story, a current event, or a thing going on that he kind of has a question or a point about mental health, hopefully. But we talk about all sorts of fun things with. Down the rabbit hole. This is also important free content created to you, for you, with you. And we ask you to do your part. Subscribe, click, do all the things the podcasters ask you to do. Listen, we need YouTube subscribers. We haven't had a few in the last few weeks. Am I right, Neil? Or am I wrong? Neil (04:21) Nope, they're growing. We're at four forty nine. So we're continuously get Chris (04:23) Four forty nine. Neil (04:24) them. Chris (04:25) I tend to miss them a little bit. I don't know why I missed that, but you do a good job of checking that. All right, well we're about halfway there. We need a thousand, y'all. Tell a friend, tell a family member, tell a neighbor, like send a specific show. We need them to subscribe to YouTube. That's your part. Thanks. Contact it through therapist eyes dot com is where you can interact with us. We do YouTube lives on Thursdays about six to six thirty. This is the human emotional experience, which we do endeavor to figure out together. Mr. Kyle King is the guy with down the rabbit hole. He's a he's good at it. I wondered how he was gonna be, Neil, when when when we had him replacing the OG Adam. I I think he's how do you think? I think he's performed pretty well. Do you agree? Neil (05:11) He's done very well. Chris (05:13) Yeah. Yeah. Kyle (05:13) I appreciate that. Chris (05:15) Two votes of confidence. What you got, brother? Kyle (05:17) Well, let's see. I'm gonna this one's gonna kind of this one will make you think a little bit. So let me ask a question. If you could go back to one ordinary day and let's say I'm gonna say 1986, 2016, or 2026, but you could only experience it exactly as someone living in that year would have, which year Chris (05:44) What's those dates again? Sorry. Kyle (05:47) Eight nineteen eighty six, twenty sixteen, and twenty twenty six. Chris (05:51) Eighty six, sixteen, and twenty six. Okay. Kyle (05:52) Yep. And you can only experience it as someone living in that year would have. Which year do you think you would feel the most different and why? Chris (06:04) The most different. Kyle (06:05) Yeah. Chris (06:06) Wait, why would I feel different? Am I going back as my current aged self or as to relive it? Kyle (06:13) You c you could. You could. You could go relive it. Either way. Chris (06:17) my current self. Kyle (06:19) Sure. Chris (06:20) Okay, cool. Well that's wow. That might change it a little bit. What you what you thinking, Neil? Neil (06:26) Well, I was three during nineteen eighty six. So I think it'd be a lot different for me just because it it's it it's just a whole new world. Like twenty sixteen was one that I lived through and that's kinda there. But nineteen eighty six for me would be just completely different. I'd love to see that to see really what's going on at the I mean, being three years old at that time, I didn't know anything, you know. No one I didn't know anything, didn't experience anything. But going back and honestly I'm like Breath of fresh air. I don't have my phone on my hip all the time. I can go hang out with people, didn't have to deal with that. Go back to the yellow pages and the white pages, you know. Call the operator. Like there's things I don't like. Chris (07:06) You would be such a good Gen X dude, Neil. Honestly, man. You're you could be one of us, man. You could be with us. Neil (07:14) Pretty close. So yeah, I'd I'd love to go back to eighty six and experience it just 'cause I really didn't the first time. Chris (07:20) See, I think this is easy and I'm curious where you're going with the idea of of the rabbit hole here, because I don't know what angle you've got, but for me it's personally, it's easy. I mean, yeah, I if I can go back as I am now, I would do so much better in nineteen eighty six than I did in actual nineteen eighty six because I wasn't three. Kyle, as you know, I think we were all we were teenagers at the time, right? In the eighties. Kyle (07:42) Yep. Yep. Yep. Chris (07:44) So why would I want to go back to sixteen when I'm freaking raising my kids and I dang sure think, well, twenty six right now, I mean, you know, it's a pretty exciting time to live, but what's the angle? I'm going to eighty five, eighty six. Kyle (07:55) Yeah, that'll work. All right, so you know great perspectives. So what if some what if someone in twenty thirty-six is asking the same question about twenty twenty-six, right? So that kind of gets you kind of where I'm headed. And the question would other question would be, is technology changing the human brain for the worse? Or is it simply changing which cognitive abilities we need to use? And if you think of it like this. Nineteen eighty six. When you are in a moment, your brain is remembering your life. Fast forward to twenty sixteen, your phone starts recording your life. All the photo memories, all the videos, all those kinds of things. Twenty twenty six, now it's your phone and AI, right? Twenty twenty twenty thirty six, right? What what else could it be? Right? AI could completely reconstruct your life. And there's been studies that actually shows that you think of like just something as simple as the photos that you take with the phone. Well, back in look where we were back in nineteen eighty six, right? We had to twenty four and thirty six exposure films, right, that we had to get developed. And now er and now we have five hundred pictures that we take in for a moment. Chris (09:15) Interestingly enough, if I could just bud in for a moment, what's Kyle (09:18) Sure. Chris (09:18) what's what's fascinating there is you you you chose or your article or your your source chose eighty six, sixteen, and twenty-six, and skipped over, obviously, ninety-six and six. And it's curious to me because so much changed from eighty six to through two thousand sixteen, and then in simple Kyle (09:38) What right? Chris (09:40) ten years later. So honestly, you might want to ask the question. And what what do we instead of thirty six, how about like twenty nine or thirty, right? Or what would be five years from? Kyle (09:49) Sure. Right. And eighty six, you think about what happened after eighty six. Internet started becoming a thing. People started getting connected in the nine early nineties. You know, so that changed how we perceived and and started connecting with each other. But you know, kind of the memory thing, some of the studies that you realize is like your brain before all the technology came out, they remembered the moment. Now you use technology to co find pictures to help you remember the moment. So it's a big difference in the way the brain perceives or brain's ability to kinda you know take in information then versus now. And there's so mu so Neil (10:31) It goes back to the Kyle (10:32) many studies around here. Neil (10:34) It goes back to the simplicity of do you remember your your new house number? Do you have a house number? Do you when when Chris gives you his cell phone, do you remember it? Right? Before you had Kyle (10:43) Right, right. Neil (10:44) to write it down, remember it you you would know every you'd know like ten, twenty, thirty phone numbers in your head 'cause you had to. Now it's like you get the number, it goes on your phone, you never know it. I think was it Chris? Kyle (10:54) Right. Neil (10:54) Was it you that got locked out of your office and you Chris (10:58) yeah, that was me. I was doomed. Neil (10:59) And you just happen to remember John Nelson's phone number enough to call him out of your entire list. Chris (11:04) No, no, that's not that's not at all what happened. No, man. What what what I I was doomed. I had nothing. I was dead in the water. The only reason why I got out of that situation and scenario, and the thing is, is for to make a long story short, I was I was literally locked out of my office and I my my c car keys were inside the office, but so was my phone. I was literally dead to rights. Like I had no options to to to to live life then I didn't know what to do. I got a domino's and a pizza worker because there were no other offices open. There was a Domino's pizza worker that used her phone and and was able to find Joy Pope's phone number literally on the internet. And I and that's after many failed attempts at trying to find John because I knew that he kind of lived close. I no, I had no idea. I had no no I Neil (11:47) So you didn't even know John's number, right? Your your own employee that you talked to many times and we text. Chris (11:53) I knew no one's number. I couldn't call anybody because I I I knew my own cell phone and my even my wife at the Kyle (11:59) Right. Right. Chris (12:00) time had a new cell phone number, so I was doomed. It was yeah, it's different world. Kyle (12:04) Yeah. But Neil is right. I mean I you know you there's several numbers. I remember my best friend's number, my parents' number, my grandmother's number, uncle's number, whatever, right? And now they're all stored in a phone. But you know, the whole idea here is is is talking about, you know, the cognitive abilities and how technology is changing our way. Just like something as simple as, you know, back in nineteen eighty six, what happened when we were finished watching T V? Well, the T V probably went off or we went to to bed or whatever. Now Chris (12:37) No. Kyle (12:38) right. Twenty sixteen we were probably watching TV and texting. Now we're watching T V, we're texting, we're scrolling social media, you know, we're using AI. So, you know, it's it's almost like overloaded stimulation for us. And you we talked about this before. It causes us not to be able to sleep, you know, it just keeps our brain constantly engaged. There's no downtime. and you know, like Neil said, you know, going back to nineteen eighty six where you didn't have to have your phone attached to your hip. You no one could reach you if you went out to dinner. You know, those kind of things. You didn't know what happened unless you were at home watching the news or you read it the next day in the newspaper. So these are the kinds of things that you that's really changed for us from a technology standpoint. And there's you could s you should see the information that I was able to find on this. There's so many different things that it could you know, that you can correlate together and understand just how much it impacts the brain and how we think about things these days. Chris (13:42) It's it's the mother of all rabbit holes right now. I mean by by far. But what's funny, Neil, is I think this guy got lazy this week. Like this is my favorite of all topics. You know, the greatest challenge in the history of all of humanity itself is the what we're talking about, and it's really important, but it's a easy, it's an e you we could do this every week, man. It's the rabbit hole you Kyle (14:06) Yeah. Chris (14:06) got, Neil. Neil (14:08) But but it makes you wonder if you asked someone who was like a a Gen Z, right? Like my kid, you know, if you asked him where how far where would he want to go back, I don't think he'd want to go back to eighty six. He'd be like, Chris (14:17) Yeah. Yeah. Neil (14:20) what? I don't I can't watch YouTube all the time, I can't talk to my friends, I can't play video games. Yeah. Chris (14:23) It would it'd be like us going back to the twenties. Kyle (14:24) Right. Right. Yeah. Chris (14:28) Yeah. It'd be us going back to the twenties. Neil (14:30) Mm-hmm. Yep. Kyle (14:32) Yeah, it yeah, you you and Chris, I mean, you know, there's a lot of studies on this and you know, we just have it's Chris (14:37) yeah. Well so new that I don't know how many longitudinal studies. Kyle (14:43) I mean there's there's there's like the information is just abundant you know, from what I found about how much, you know, this changes how we think about things. You know, information overload, self you know, self presentation, you know, self awareness, it changes all of those aspects because we do rely on technology to s in some degree too much. Chris (15:09) Mm-hmm. Yeah, so let's let's transition. it is a good you know, I was I hope I wasn't being critical. I mean it's Kyle (15:18) No. No. Chris (15:19) you know it it it's a it's a good one, obviously. It's one that I I love because the topic is amazing and so overwhelming, but we could talk about that all night for sure. Yeah, let's let's go to the the current events that we got because I'm excited to kind of do that. Episode three sixty seven Casey and I had a great conversation, why some people break and others grow. The science of emotional resiliency. And then episode three sixty eight was an amazing and awesome conversation with Hunter Davidson, who has chronic pain and he shared his his powerful story. and his success in life has been profound being a producer and music engineer. I never heard that term before, but I'm just not in t touch with that world much. But Kyle, the homeboy got a gold record as is the level Kyle (16:06) cool. Chris (16:06) of success he has. Yeah. And but his chronic pain is is is from back back injury that he incurred. So to hear him talk about his struggle and his suffering and his process is is was was really a good conversation. But let's let's get to these current events and start with Lindsay Clancy. man, this has been a big thing. I've protected myself from stuff like this. I I kind of don't listen to a lot of social media and and these types of things much no more. so I was I was really kind of dialed out from this. but I know I I do I leave I do like News Nation as a as a news source and I mean they've been talking about this case and I would just turn it off. I'd be like, let me switch over to baseball or I don't know big brother or something. Because I didn't want to deal with this case. But the ins and outs of it I think Neil you said you've been following it, right? Is that did you did you did you say you've been on it? Neil (17:02) Well a l a little bit. I mean yeah, I I've s I've a little bit on it. I mean you kinda Chris (17:06) Give us give us the basics then. Yeah, give us the basics of what the case is 'cause Kyle said that he hadn't he hadn't watched a whole lot of it, right? Kyle (17:15) I know very little. Yep. Chris (17:17) Yeah. Yeah. It's horrific, Neil (17:18) I mean the idea is that Chris (17:20) Neil. Neil (17:20) yeah, it's it's a mom who basically got to a point where she got her husband to leave the house. When he left, she basically strangled each one of her children everywhere from eight months up to five years old. I think she tried to like slit her wrist and then jump out her second story window to try to kill herself. She didn't die, obviously, but basically that was this whole idea that she basically, you know, I mean we've had a few women in the past that have done this, you know, I think was it Susan Smith or whatever that did that where she drowned her kids in a pool or some someone like that. So you have these situations like that where yeah, she basically whatever the reason was, whatever the purpose is or whatever, she yeah, she killed her purposely strangled her three kids and then tried to base pseudo kill herself as kind of a failed attempt. So Chris (18:09) And they made it pretty graphic, you know, you know, with the reality, somebody was talking about was into this case a whole lot that it takes like two to three minutes to fully strangle the life from a person. And so if you think about that, she used a a yeah, an exercise Neil (18:25) Exercise band, I think, right? Chris (18:27) band to wrap around the kids one by one and strangling them that way, with the last being an eighteen month old child. that then huh eight Neil (18:39) Eight months, I believe. Kyle (18:41) Eight months. Chris (18:42) eight months I'm wrong that went to the la you know, watched the previous children go through this. So just just horrific. Absolutely horrific. Neil (18:53) Yeah. And it and it's really there's a lot of stuff when you watch the the Stott trials, a lot of stuff that goes through, you know, they're saying that she had post per postpartum psychosis at some point. You know, they're talking about Chris (19:04) That's the big deal. Postpartum? Yeah, postpartum psychosis. Neil (19:08) Yeah, so there's that supposedly she heard a a male's voice for eighteen minutes that said, you know, you need to get your husband out so you can take care of the the you know, kill your kids so you can kill yourself. There's she has a whole history of talking to therapists. There's a laundry list of medications she was put on, anti psychotics, some other stuff. So there's and then Chris (19:24) Mm-hmm. It was well, it was an SSRI specifically. Neil (19:29) Well, there's a bunch of according to her thing. She she Chris (19:30) Probably multiple, yeah, yeah, yeah. Neil (19:32) had I mean, they had a whole list that I was just looking up and I mean it's a dozen different medications and you know you know, Chris, and you're filled when you start taking a lot of those different pills and those different pieces, how they interact, what's good, what's bad, not being on them, being on them too long, getting off of them without proper like there's a lot of variables in this that could lead her to get to this point and it's just Chris (19:55) This whole court case is heavily based on scientific and mental health field reality. Kyle (20:04) So they're basically trying to determine whether or not she actually knew right from wrong. Chris (20:13) So for the most part, yeah, Kyle, you're you're correct. But you said something when we were talking about this offline before we started that was interesting. What about the politics? Kyle (20:24) Yeah. Chris (20:25) What about the culture? What about the what's happening here? Kyle (20:29) It it's it's gotten really interesting. I I've seen some some posts, I've seen some news articles where there's a lot of support for for her, which for someone that, you know, has killed a kid you wouldn't expect. But Chris (20:46) Right. Kyle (20:47) surprisingly there is and I I don't quite understand why. and and I know I'm probably, you know, making some people mad by saying that, but yeah, I mean it's just It is what it is and I think and of course social media's taken off with it too, so Chris (21:04) they are. Neil, how do you feel about the culture side of it, the political side of it, the Elements that go into this. Neil (21:16) Well, I I think looking at some of the culture behind it and you look at it it's there is a weird thing going on in today's society that when a bad person does something bad, there is a weird group of people that basically associate or relate to that bad person. You look at Luigi Mangioni who killed the CEO for the United Healthcare. Bunch of people sided with him. Chris (21:40) Interesting, Neil. Neil (21:42) The guy who killed Charlie Kirk, the people who sided with him, her, right? There's Chris (21:45) Yeah, it's Interesting. Neil (21:46) there's this weird connection that we have that when someone does something bad, society is now getting to the point where instead of villainizing them, there's this weird uplifting on this strange pedestal that's happened. Chris (22:01) This one's different. Neil (22:04) It's a little different in the fact that it's someone who does something bad. Chris (22:09) Yeah. Yeah, do you do go ahead. Neil (22:10) And and and I think I think you are correct. What she did should not be favored in any light at all. Killing your three harmless children The other ones is like, well, people didn't like, you know, the United Healthcare. No one likes healthcare. They say, yeah, he's justified. You know, Charlie Kirk, we already saw he was divisive, you know, with the way the politics and the news media does it. So those sides you kinda had a good and a bad side. This, there really should be no one that really sees her, puts her on a pedestal. She killed three harmless children. Chris (22:44) Yeah. Yeah, the reason why this is different, do you do you guys have any idea either of you how badly I would love to be a professional witness on this case? Like I would love it. I would I you know and and a lot of people would would would not. That makes me a little definitely weird in my field. But this the reason why I would love it is because to be an expert witness in this case allows you to to speak to the truths that we know scientifically, but being honest about the gaps in that and what we don't know. And so this case is so dramatic because it's such a dramatic death of an entire family, essentially. I mean the husband, can you imagine his situation? Right? But the reason why, Kyle, she is getting support. And the reason why it's different, Neil, than the Manjoni thing or whatever, like, is the postpartum element. It's it's it's so poignant. It's and it's totally a thing, and it's not something that we understand, and it's not something that we can treat, and it's something that we as a society in situations like this are gonna have to deal with because she was absolutely insane. She wasn't her normal right self. Her hormones were all over the place. Who the heck in her normal right mind does something like this? And then you gotta ask yourself, well. So she's she's definitely insane. Well, what do we do with that? Well, normally when somebody is insane, it's a very old psychology term, but we still use it in the legal court process. Why? I don't know, because we can't update anything and make it sound more normal. But when you're when you're found to be legally insane, like the dude in Charlotte that stabbed a dude on the subway, you can't be held accountable because you don't even know what's going on. You're you're psychotic. So we easily understand you're not competent to stand trial. That's the key. Neil (24:47) But I think I think to me that's BS. You did something horrible. You need to be punished for it. Whether you meant to or not, there's still the reality that this person did a horrible, atrocious thing. The person in in Charlotte, he did a horrible thing. I don't care whether he knew what he was doing or not. It was an intentional thing. It's not like he tripped and pushed her into something. It's not like she accidentally tripped and did this. Like she purposely planned that. So whether she's competent or not, the fact that they use these types of situations where they bring in insanity to me is the fault of the legal system. 'Cause I understand why the purpose of it is. Huh? Chris (25:18) Okay, so what happens to those people though, Neil? What happens to those people? Neil (25:24) The ones that are for insanity or the ones that died? Chris (25:26) Yes. The the the the th that are insane. That are insane. Neil (25:30) Well, technically they're supposed to be incarcerated in some way. Now the question is, do they go into a jail or do Chris (25:35) Okay. Neil (25:35) they go into a mental health institute that Chris (25:37) Okay. Neil (25:38) actually deals with them? Chris (25:39) This is what we do. With somebody that is insane or pleads a defense temporarily insane, they go to a mental facility and they go get treatment and they're locked there and they're there for a while, sometimes a lifetime, because we have to get them well. Right? So this is a pretty accepted thing. We're not going to take the guy who's schizophrenic and put him in prison. We don't do that. We w currently we we never really have, I don't think, when we have mental health hospitals. I guess in the you know eighteen seventies we did or whatever, we would hang people, but we don't do that. So you might even disagree with that, it sounds like. But that's not what's in question. What's in question is when she's temporarily insane through hormones, not herself and doing dramatically heinous behavior, but isn't herself, isn't within herself Is she temporarily insane? Well, yeah. So what do we do with that as a society? We have to have crimes punished. I mean, three beautiful babies are dead. This is what people are struggling with. And they don't understand the very strong reality and all of the support around her and why this is different than those other situations. It's because women are like, yo, that legit was me. The only thing that was different is I didn't take the action. Because people feel this way. Kyle (27:05) Yeah. And and look and look, I I fully believe that it is a thing. and that's something that women has to go through. You know, it's definitely their hormones look, they get out of whack, you know, going through something like the you know, like childbirth and stuff. And what I don't want to happen is I don't want it to be a a set of precedence for a cop out. You know, like you said, s there's people that Chris (27:30) Right. Yeah. Kyle (27:31) there's you know, there's a lot of women that go through this, right? We know that. To your point, they did not take the same actions that she did. She did. Neil (27:42) My my wife dealt with Chris (27:42) Exactly. Neil (27:43) my wife dealt with Chris (27:44) She did it. Neil (27:44) it when with our second kid. She had, you know, lack of sleep. Her cousin passed away in a nasty car wreck. She had a lot of issues that she dealt with and she talked to a doctor. They gave her some stuff to help her and you know, it was it was sleeping pills. She just was sleep deprived, right? That was the thing for her. I know there's a lot of people Chris (28:00) Mm-hmm. Neil (28:02) that have it, but it goes back to the situation where There it takes a community to raise a village you know, a village to raise a family, you know, when she has issues, the husband should step in, you know, mental health society should help in. You know, they talked about that in some of the cases where she would see her therapist a bunch of times and at one point I guess she went to a mental health like she had to get checked in. And supposedly like th they did not Chris (28:25) yeah. She was a little Neil (28:26) let her therapist or whoever it was know what happened or what was going on, which is a big failure of the whole s you know, part of the system that goes in, right? So, you know Once again, the reality is Chris (28:36) Well to speak to to speak to that specifically, Neil, another factor, and then we need to get off of this, but I'm gonna make this a whole episode with the panel. It's that important. Just so so that you know, it it may be the next one or the week after that, but it it's important. Yeah, it Neil (28:47) I and I think having Victoria and Casey on would be really good too because they've had kids and they're women. Chris (28:53) right? But I but but but but to that point specifically that you were just making, Neil, the the fact of the matter is is she was found to be diagnosed as bipolar two. Now that tells me something. about her, I automatically understand what that diagnosis is and I also automatically understand what SSRI medication treatment are. So the practitioner flat mistake is giving somebody that is bipolar to a SSRI because that shoots people up to mania and sometimes can happen very quickly in medicinally. So there's also practitioner responsibility, arguably. If you misdiagnose and misprescribe and jack somebody up to the point that she was jacked up. Eeks. We have an issue. Neil (29:37) We we need to get Kyle (29:37) Yeah, but how how Neil (29:38) we need to get Case Kyle (29:38) how and how do you fix that? Neil (29:40) Yeah. We need to get Casey Chris (29:40) Yeah. And how do you fix that? Right. Neil (29:42) V Victoria and who is the lady that nurse practitioner that does that we had on the show. What was she's really smart. No the the one Chris (29:51) I've had so many students I'm not sure. Neil (29:53) recently. She's she's local here and she she's a a nurse that actually could Chris (29:56) Irene was my last one. Neil (29:59) Who? No, no, no. It's it's Chris (30:00) Irene, was she on there? Irene? I don't think it was on. Neil (30:02) the it's the nurse you refer to that c helps give medication for people. Chris (30:05) Carrie Hill. Carrie, Carrie. Neil (30:06) Carry Yeah, her. Like, I would love to see their perspective on this coming from their side. So Chris (30:11) Yeah, I'll I will approach her and see if she'd be a guest. Yeah, I I need to do that. Neil (30:14) 'Cause that would be that would be a great thing to get their side 'cause like right now we're just three dudes talking about it. We can't really relate to a lot of these Kyle (30:20) No. Neil (30:20) pieces, right? So You do have that, right? And we've you Chris (30:21) Yeah, I got some science news there though. I got something. Neil (30:26) know, we have all had kids, we've seen our we worked with our wives for the situation, we kinda but we don't know what they go through. We don't know a lot of those things. Chris (30:33) Yeah. And and that's why this is very personal to women. they're wearing white, I guess when they're like, you know, fryer and they're wearing pink when they're like, hey, I could be her. So it's it's a it's a really it's a big deal. you know, we need we need to move on, but that that book boy, this is a that's why we're gonna do a whole show on it. So let's move on to the other current event that I had. See, where's my notes? Here we go. and also when I'm going to my notes, Neil, that's hard for me to switch back and forth, just mental note in the back of the brain. weird so Kyle, you're going to be our Googler because a weird report came to me that I did not know about called cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. And evidently it's a medical condition caused by long term frequent cannabis use that leads to repeated and severe, severe bouts of vomiting, nausea, dry heaving, GI tract, all this it's it's wild abdominal pain. And the only thing that helps these people, evidently, is getting into a shower and and having a long hot shower. Like people were in emergency rooms screaming to be in the shower and they take them to the showers or whatever. Like this is an emergency department nightmare. it a new CDC report published around August the sixth found a hundred and ninety nine thousand and some change emergency department visits involving cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. And we just named this thing. I had never heard of it. This is just hot off the presses. evidently with the CHS I gather. and this maybe the CDC, I don't know who named it. reoccurring nausea, vomiting associated with frequent cannabis use. Younger people, particularly ages fifteen to twenty four, had especially high rates of this. So what do we know these fifteen to twenty four year old group is doing, guys? Kyle (32:31) A lot of beeping. Chris (32:33) Lot of vaping. A lot of vaping. What does that say in your brain, Kyle? Kyle (32:41) Well, you know, I we we talked about this a little bit before the show, but you know folks like Chi Chin Chung, you know, they've been we know that they did it for a very long time Chris (32:51) Right. Kyle (32:52) and we've they didn't have this this problem. So there's something there's gotta be something else that is creating the potency to create this problem. and it's Chris (33:04) Those two issues. Yeah. Kyle (33:06) yeah, in in one You know, it just shows that using it in early stages is probably not the best, you know, course of action because our bodies are not are still trying to develop and you know, basically from what I see from you know, looking at the Cleveland Clinic page is it it it exasperates the receptors and those receptors is what creates the the problem and the symptoms ultimately. Chris (33:40) So I see there is two issues here. Okay. One is potency. You mentioned you said that just now. And the other is the action of using the vapes. So think about this. Neil, you know, we've talked about on the show, John and I connected our brains, right? And we wondered about the hormone system in our body. And I I know if you're listening a long time follower show, you might think I'm crazy with the hormone thing, but dude, I it's going to answer so many mental health questions, I suspect. I really suspect that. Neil, we talked about addiction being potentially in the endocrine system, right? Well, think about it. When you're when you when you when you use weed, you get the munchies. That is messing with that endocrine hormone system. If you use a crap ton of weed at the high level of potency, if you're not smoking a lot of weed nowadays, you gotta understand, ma'am, or sir, this is not your nineteen eighty six version of weed. Okay. This is that was like what 17% was the good sticky stuff that we got when we as kids, Kyle, right? That's crap now. That is absolute garbage weed. They're smoking 80%, 90% THC stuff, y'all. I mean, their 60% is the standard vape stuff. That is incredibly potent. And I suspect, Neil, it might be damning up the endocrine system. Neil (35:04) Yeah, that would that would make sense and I think the potency it goes back to your statement too about how alcohol when it was just beer was one thing, but once we started making it hard liquor, it changed a thing. You know, when it was marijuana Chris (35:13) Right. Neil (35:14) it was natural. Now that we mess with Chris (35:16) Yeah. Neil (35:16) it, it's become more legal, so people start playing with it more and you get the good stuff and the better stuff and then you distill it with vaping and like there 'cause there's all those things like we talk about, like in my head I'm leaning towards if it's more prevalent now, does vaping have an effect of it? Because we know that has issues with people who use it just for nicotine. The you know the popcorn lung and like it's or something with that. But then the potency Chris (35:37) Right. Yes. Neil (35:39) plays a big part in it too. You're putting s like I'm looking at this research and I'm like, yeah, you're looking at an 80%, you know, whatever potency to it, and now you have so much more THC coming into your system, really messing with, like you said, that endocrine system. It's it's a different ball game than your grandpa's, you know, wacky wacky, whatever you want to call it. Kyle (36:00) Yeah. Chris (36:00) Wacky to backy. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's interesting that because the way that we started this out, Kyle, you were saying you googled it and the very first thing that came up was this, Kyle (36:15) Yeah, it was. I I didn't even get the whole whole word typed out. And then it's like, here's the first thing. It popped up. I'm like, wow. So and and Chris (36:22) Yeah, what that tells me it is a it is a real deal. It is a it it's it's a lot of people are w wondering about this now. Kyle (36:30) Yeah, and you know, you mentioned you know people co going in screaming in hospitals and stuff like that, and there actually is another another Chris (36:35) Terrified, yes. Kyle (36:37) term that is popping up. Scromiting. Have you heard that associated with it? It's combined vomiting, Chris (36:44) no, I this is all new to me. Kyle (36:47) vomiting and screaming at the same time. when they have such intense Chris (36:50) shit. Kyle (36:51) pain. Yeah. So Chris (36:53) Wow. Kyle (36:55) a and literally I'm reading this from the Cleveland Clinic. And so it's Wow, never never heard of anything like this. Chris (37:04) It it just sounds awful, honestly. It my my client was describing it to me. She is an e emergency department professional. put it that way, protect her identity a little bit more. But I mean it it just she they see this all the time now. It's like a they they wouldn't know what they were treating. I mean, people were getting endoscopies and colonoscopies and procedures and, you know, shots and, you know, hydrochromidine and and Painkillers. You they they they're throwing everything at it 'cause they didn't know what the hell this was. It's like this new thing. And and I gotta tell you, the the other current event that I'll throw in here is a is a a journal, a Wall Street journal show, the podcast they did. I I I meant to listen to this but I but I didn't get to listen to the whole thing. But it it Kratom is do you both of you either you know what Kratom is, even know what it is? Neil (37:59) I've heard of it, but that's about it. Chris (38:01) Yeah. That's about it. You guys don't even know what it is. Okay. Yeah, this is the at least in North Carolina, a lot of places around the country, you can just go into the store and you where you get your Delta Nine and stuff and you can go get yourself Kratom. It's it it reduces someone's opioid use, maybe is the characteristic. It's it's basically an opioid. it's an over the counter heroin. Literally. That's that's essentially what it is. And it's and it's really throwing people, you know, into addiction or or people are using as their drug of choice. the the the big question that our panel may talk about if we talk about this stuff, which I think we will do a cannabis show, you know, is this i is this recovery from substances decreasing actual heron use as it's talked about? Is it harm reduction, which is a specific type of strategy in substance abuse, or is this just substitution where you're going to, you know, instead of using this drug you, you know, just use another one? so yeah, I think we're gonna do a cannabis show too. Yeah. That's what's that's what's on the tab. You agreeable, Neil. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna veto me. Neil (39:12) No, I th I think honestly seeing how much it's been used and how widespread it is compared to what it was before, I think it's definitely good to address it now because I feel like there's enough exposure and there's enough pieces to it now that you start seeing long term ramifications. Really, what does this mean when you spread it to such a wider population, right? When you have such when almost everyone uses it for whatever they think is a self medication, that's you're getting a lot more sample data to start seeing what's happening, right? Chris (39:42) Yeah. Kyle (39:42) It and and Chris (39:43) Yeah. Kyle (39:43) you just hit on something I was just thinking about. It's like all of these states, everybody was pushing for the legality of marijuana marijuana use now that it's happening, to your point, they got more sample data because, you know, now everybody's using it. Right? So that it is, it is very true. So, you know, where they didn't have free access to it, you know, previously, now they do. Chris (40:13) Yeah. Yeah, it's it's throwing people into a lot of whack. you know, this world is is is a heck of a world we're living in, honestly. And you know, that's one of the reasons why we do the show, kind of free content to help you out. So let's let's transition to our shows. Episode three sixty seven Why Some People Break and Others Grow The Science of Emotional Resiliency. Casey's favorite topic on the show is resiliency. So she was the star of the hour, I would say. three questions that we asked during that show is why do two people experience similar hardships yet respond so differently? And is resiliency something you're born with or something you develop? What do you say to that, Kyle? Yes or no? Born with or developed? Kyle (40:56) Hmm. I Chris (40:59) Don't think. Kyle (40:59) think it's I think it's developed. I I I I really do. I I and the reason Chris (41:02) Okay. Interesting. What? Kyle (41:05) why I say that is because, you know, when we're younger, I mean, I don't know if we definitely understand the resiliency that we can endure as we go through these different situations, but I think as we get older we start to develop that. Chris (41:22) Mm-hmm. You're you're not wrong. Yeah. absolutely. And and we talked about that on the show a lot, I think. You know, the the development, what what happens in your family of origin and stuff. But the third question, what habits and relationships help people grow instead of simply survive? Habits and relationships. What did you think of the show, Neil? Neil (41:46) I thought it was great. I mean Casey has some really good I mean, honestly when Casey's involved in these things, her her stories, stuff she went through, the you know, all the different pieces, it's it's I thought it was a good show and yeah, this is Casey's bread and butter. This is, you know, what is Casey known for? Resiliency. Like that's that's her middle name. So and Chris (42:05) Right. Yeah. Neil (42:07) And I and I think the good part about it too, 'cause when you do see a lot of people that deal with stuff and they see someone who's more resilient than themselves, I think the idea that Kyle go back to your statement is you can learn resiliency, that should give people a little bit more hope because it sucks to become resilient but when you do, you Chris (42:24) Because you have to. Neil (42:26) you just have right, you just have to get to that point. It's like anytime you do anything challenging It changes your mindset. And I think the other part that's big, and this was part of Casey's conversation, was like having support systems that help you deal with these situations too. It also helps, right? There is an internal aspect of resiliency, but there's the support aspect around it. You know, Casey talked about the time when she had to pack up her house and she just had she thought she had to do it herself, and her f clo good friend actually got people to basically get everything unloaded in like two minutes or it was like some they loaded a whole house in a It was something amazing. But that goes Chris (43:04) That was a powerful story. Neil (43:06) that outside. experience or outside exposure of whatever that is like whatever call it helps you become more resilient because now you have hope or you know that someone can help you through these things. So there's an internal aspect of resiliency. Like I have to get to a certain point, but having the external support really gets you to that next level. You know, if you've ever done any major Kyle (43:26) Mm-hmm. Neil (43:27) workouts, having a partner, doing a race with someone that's struggling with you, like those are things that helps you I can I need to do this myself, but this person's kind of helping me With that invisible rope pulling me along, but you still have to do it yourself, and there's a huge benefit to that. Chris (43:46) To your point, I love the idea that you know, you can learn this and like I think Kyle you're right, we talked a lot about it. You look at the meaning that you take in life, the purpose that you have for yourself, the attachments and the attachment system, which is why I think EFT is so important, the support that's in your life, the flexibility that you learn Kyle (44:09) Okay. Chris (44:09) or have, and the level of acceptance, whether you're in a fighting stance or not. These are These are really poignant factors that help people to to grow, we talk about Right. So you're right, Kyle. You get to you get to listen or grow. You get to learn. Kyle (44:26) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean and it's amazing. You know the old adage, right? It always comes in threes. So when one bad thing happens, y chances are two other bad things are gonna come right behind it. And it seems to always Chris (44:38) Right. Kyle (44:39) happen at right. So you really learn to you're really tested. And you know, when you're tested like that, you know, how you what's your tendencies? Are you going to learn? Are you going to grow from it? You know, that's That's kinda where I I go with things. It's like, are you gonna let it beat you down emotionally or whatever? I mean, shoot, even Kelly Clarkson wrote a song about it, right? What d what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. So right? Chris (45:07) They make songs over these things, absolutely. Yeah, and I think, you know, something we didn't get to talk a lot about, Neil, when we were on the show is the post traumatic stuff. We didn't we just didn't have time to get to it. But the fact of the matter is, you know, traumatic event and and going through you know, the traumatic realities that we are struggling with when we have trauma, whether vis you know, military or sexual abuse or these types of things. You learn the most when you heard the most. You've heard me say that for s sure on the show. Well, traumatic events absolutely, unfortunately, as they are, create havoc, but they also create resiliency, to what your point you were making, Neil. Neil (46:00) Yeah, exactly. And I and I and I think that's the part that that's the part that people have to understand is that those those experiences is just like tearing down a muscle. You have to tear you have to tear your muscle to build in stronger. So with that it's that same basic idea. You have to push yourself push yourself to then want to do again. Like If you go back to Craig and you talk about his unbeatable mindset that he did with Mark Divine, they had crucibles, Chris (46:25) yeah. Neil (46:26) right? If you ever if you ever know that thing, they would do crucibles and the idea is you do an easy crucible like every day. You know, get up to and read because you don't like reading, or get up and work Kyle (46:36) Mm-hmm. Neil (46:36) out every day, right? That's an easy one. Like then once a week you do a little bit more challenging one. I'm gonna go Two-mile walk or ruck once a week or something. And then once a month you do a really hard one that's like maybe I'm gonna go hike a big trail. And then once a quarter or six months, you do a really, really hard challenge. And the goal is that you build up these small challenges and you get your body used to overcoming challenges. in a controlled situation so that way when you do hit hard challenges you go from there. So when someone goes through a post-traumatic situation, a divorce, an ab abuse, anything like that, bad relationship or whatever is bad work situation. There has to be something they have to do to sometimes get themselves back into that mindset of I am resilient. And sometimes it takes a thing where you go back to a coffee shop that you used to have issues with or call talk to someone that you maybe had a issue with, maybe you know, stuff like that. It just you have to put yourself in those situations to then build yourself back up. And it takes a lot of time, but once again, it is something you can do. And once again, going back, external support helps. Go with their friend. Talk to someone that does it. Find someone who wants to do it with you, right? You do those things to say, hey, I need to build myself, but this first next couple months, I need Kyle to be with me because, you know, I'm afraid of, you know, golf carts and I don't want to go back to the golf course, right? You know, whatever that is. Kyle (48:01) Yeah. Yeah. But you know you know, Chris (48:02) Yeah. Kyle (48:04) it it's funny, everything we talk about, no matter what we do, we talk about the relationships that we have together to get us through things. It it it's it astounds me. Chris (48:12) Right. You notice that. Kyle (48:14) It's like we always come back to that. Chris (48:17) Right. No, it's it's absolutely the case. And and so, you know, one of the things that we I was gonna highlight with this show is resiliency, how can we strengthen it? And that's the first thing on the list, Kyle, is healthy relationships. You know, you're absolutely Kyle (48:31) Yeah, yeah. Chris (48:32) on point. emotional awareness, realistic optimism, gratitude, like gratitude lists, purpose having a purpose, like the purpose driven life that I'm sure you've heard of that work, you Kyle (48:42) Yeah. Chris (48:43) know, Neil or Kyle, that's really a helpful thing. And you know, physical self care. Spiritual practices when meaningful to the individual and flexibility in thinking is you know, I mean you you you can be more resilient. It's just it's hard. Kyle (48:56) Yeah, you know, s somebody recently just told me, you know, they're going through a rough patch. you know, business is is kind of struggling this year, you know, it hasn't that you know, it's the first time they've had these challenges. Car broke down at the same time, right? So it's like you know, there again comes in threes. And they said they were out there, they were out there mowing grass. Something as simple as that. And you're talking about perspective and gratitude. They just looked and said, You know what? I'm thankful I get to do this. I can still mow my grass. I can still come Chris (49:32) Right. Kyle (49:32) out here, breathe a little bit, enjoy some nature, put my problems aside for a little bit. That's tomorrow's problems or whatever. Chris (49:41) You appreciate stuff when they're hard, huh? Mowing the grass gets hard when you get a little bit older. All right, in the show, towards the end of the Kyle (49:49) Ha ha. Chris (49:50) show, we do a practical question, and that is when we take a little segment and talk to you directly through the screen. So I'll wind us up on this one before we get to episode 368. Hunter Davidson, Success Didn't End the Pain. Living with Chronic Pain and Choosing Hope was the title. So the practical question for episode 367 that I'm going to give you right now is what gives your life is important to think about this. Like, what gives your life meaning? You know, w you you will come across hard times, you will come across storms. You heard us talk about be like the buffalo. You'll have to hear that in the episode when we talked about it with Casey. Be like the buffalo. What do you do when you hit a difficult season? Do you keep the meaning of your life? Do you highlight the life meaning? Do you understand where your place is? Because that is a huge thing that gets you through and helps build resiliency. So that is something I would like for you to think about. Kyle, you weren't with us when Hunter was here. Neil, you were. Holy cow, this guy, a golden record producer, wild success. The one percent of producers get that done, right? Not many people have a golden record. This dude, this brother did, he brought it. And he started out with humble beginnings with himself in his garage making equipment work again, buying it broke and that goes to a golden record. But Neil, what did you think of that? Because success didn't end to pain, living with chronic pain and choosing hope was our title. Neil (51:29) Yeah, I mean he he was a I he was a really cool guy the way he talked, very laid back. I've listened to some of the music that he produced. It's kind of an interesting vibe. It's not a vibe I I know and do because it's it's it's really cool Chris (51:39) Did you? Yeah. Neil (51:41) the way but I know how John talked referenced some musician or some band and the guy's like, Yeah, that's my inspiration. I'm like, I don't even know who John and him are talking about. But Chris (51:48) Ha ha. Neil (51:49) it's it's a cool thing to see what he did and then find out, you know, what happened, what caught where he hurt his back and the pain he's dealing with, which is one of those things that's what John once again chimed in about. Are you d having these problems? Are they giving you this? It's like it's like, you know. Yeah, Chris (52:02) They were like brothers, Kyle. Neil (52:04) it was really funny. And but yeah, no, it was interesting to watch. And then he he also gave his steps that keeps him going, right? When you have that continuous pain in your back. I mean that's it's not like your foot that you can kind of just stay off of it. Like your pain, your core, that area is so painful because sitting doesn't help, laying down doesn't help, you know, moving around doesn't help. Being, you know Chris (52:25) And just so you know the the the listener, Hunter is talking about pain. He's not talking about a sore spot. He's talking about horrible pain. Neil (52:32) Yeah, he he got crunched by a motorcycle trying to offload it from a thing and he just basically had a stinger in his back. I think it was a major herniated disc, I think he said. It's not it's not a fun thing. My stepdad's gone through multiple lower back surgeries and upper back. Like it's not and but yet he's striving through the whole thing and his his mindset about You know, like you said, it's he kinda car you said it before about the blessings, like I can still do these things. You know, if he does laundry, it's like a victory to him because that's a hard thing for him to do, right? But when he does it, he's like that he it's like, I can do it, right? His mindset Chris (53:05) He was big on that. Neil (53:06) you know, his mindset he wants to be in a better position. He wanted to engage at the wedding, but he physically could. But it's that mindset that he always one day, every day there he wins a challenge, that's a win big thing for him. He says something about that. I don't remember exactly that whole saying, but like if he makes it through another day or he makes another step, that's a big win for him. Kyle (53:25) Yeah, small steps make a big Chris (53:25) Yeah, they're Yeah. Kyle (53:27) make a big win for him. Yeah. Chris (53:29) Well, it well, as a matter of fact, I think his what was his quote, Neil? simply one little miracle per day was doing the laundry and stuff, right? Or something. And so you end up Neil (53:39) Yeah. Yep. Chris (53:40) having three hundred and sixty five miracles at the end of the year. That was amazing. So Hunter Davidson is a music producer, recording engineer, multi instrumentalist, recording artist whose career put him behind the boards for some significant names in independent music. He produced and engineered records as Frankie Cosmos worked with artists including Porsche's. Share magazine, Our A Roar, operates Business District Recording in Johnston City, New York. his work has appeared on releases from labels including Sub Pop and Third Man Records and artists he's recorded have been covered by publications including Rolling Stones, New York Times and Spin. but today, and again we that was my little introduction I created for him. You know, we we talked about his severe, severe chronic pain that Neil was just highlighting. So the The three questions we did for that show was what happens psychologically when you accomplish things you once dreamed about, but you're still suffering? And that was a question specifically for chronic pain people. They understand that world. Second one, how do you maintain hope when the problems you're fighting or facing or fighting and facing may not completely go away? And then thirdly, is resilience about overcoming adversity, or can resilience mean learning how to live meaningfully? With. Adversity. Gosh, that is this is a hard issue, y'all. I just chronic pain is one of those things in therapy that I I kinda don't like dealing with, if I'm being honest. Cause I find it to be so frustrating. It's like these chronic pain clients well when you're not talking about addiction, that spices things up in my therapy office. But you know, when it's not an addiction issue related, because that complicates the picture up tremendously, simple chronic pain, that's just that's the primary issue is just so You know, in in a therapy room. So what do we think about when we think about this? Neil, more of your thoughts on on what he does or how he gets through it, or Kyle, like can you even imagine what this chronic pain world must be like? I mean, you do health, you're like Mr. Health, right? Kyle (55:50) I mean look, I mean I get pains and look and sores. I mean we all look you and I aren't getting younger. but you know Chris (55:58) Hey, Neil isn't either. Kyle (56:00) right. So, but yeah, I mean I get pains and stuff like that when I l when I d do exercise, I may tweak my back or something like that, but just when I tweak my back, I mean I know how bad it is and how hard it is to move. I can't imagine what he's going through for one. just Constantly. but even just tweaking my back, I mean, gosh, I can't even bend over to pick something up. I can't twist, I can't it hurts to move my neck sometimes. Whatever. So no. Chris (56:29) Can't drive, he can't go to work, he can't do anything. Kyle (56:32) So for you know, for him having to k continuously go through this and every single move he makes has to deal with this. it breaks my heart for one. for anybody that ha would have to go through that, but I do applaud it, you know. His mindset and, you know, his appreciation for life. Because I think he's it sounds like you know, I haven't listened to the episode, but it does sound like he has an understanding that okay, this is something I I've got to deal with. I'm not gonna let it get me down because I've got other things in life that are are important to me that I wanna be here for. Chris (57:09) You know, you're you're right. You it that's I'm glad that's coming through by our descriptions and such because you know, Hunter doesn't know this and I kinda wonder if he listens to this episode, he'll what what he'll think about it. 'Cause it's it's just my observation and my experience. So this is this is actually me being vulnerable, revealing this because you know, you just meet people sometimes and you're just like, you know what? I can really connect with that guy. I f I felt that way with Hunter right right from the first moment that I conversed with him and we told the story of Kyle (57:40) Like he did with me too. Chris (57:41) how we met. Mm? Kyle (57:44) Like you did with me too. Chris (57:46) That that's absolutely true. Because you you're you're not wrong. I I I d you're absolutely not wrong. 'Cause Kyle (57:50) Ha ha ha. Chris (57:51) I sense things. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm an empath. I you I'm a therapist. I I I know shit. Yeah, I'm sorry, you know. I Kyle (57:55) All right. Chris (57:57) but but stuff's but I'm pick up on stuff on a level that people don't and and it's like whether that was learned or just Hunter, I suspect both. You either crash down from an from an injury like this and and enter into like Christopher Reeves' depression and suicidality and everything. I mean it's it is horrible or Or you get out of that and you get into a place where you're going to deal with this, you're going to get well. Here's a little dirty little secret that we know in the mental health field. We say forever until death to us part in sickness, but what else? In health. Do we really mean the sickness? Because when you make that vow and people become quadruplegic or have a major illness or lose limbs or that type of thing, oftentimes do you know what follows? Divorce. divorce. Do you know why divorce follows? Because the individual who has curred the injury or the health issue does not do what they need to do. They do not grieve. They do not accept this. They do not kind of develop an ability to handle themselves and they crash out. It's a horrible, horrible thing to watch. It's very tough. But I I just I sense a lot in in him, Kyle, in in that that that gets at a core, you know, for him of resilience and positive and hope and all that. Kyle (59:15) Yeah, I mean and who knows. I mean, he could start some foundation or, you know, some nonprofit Chris (59:22) yeah. Kyle (59:22) or whatever to help, you know, you know, other people that are dealing with this. I mean, so you know you never know what good could come from things like this. And and that's is so it sounds like, you know, somebody like him would create something good for others that are going through something similar. Chris (59:40) Mm-hmm. Yes, no, indeed. I mean, it's it's it's it's what it's all about. I mean, honestly, Kyle, it's one of the reasons why I get off doing the show. It's one of the reasons why we exist on through therapy size. Right. But understand, you know, this is a painful reality and it's a big emotional thing. We talked about on the show with with Kyle, with Hunter, and and he he confirmed and and all of that that it you know it it this is not just dealing with pain. This changes your mood, this changes your sleep, your concentration, relationships across Across the board, I just described ending in divorce oftentimes, if you don't get your crap together. Work, how do you work? Identity. Like on an identity level, psychologically. Your independent level. Your level of independence is threatened. Your your your fundamental experience of hope oftentimes gets wrecked. So this is this is a this is an involved deal. This is you lose a lot of of of of life, spontaneity, independence. I already said independence, pieces of your former identity, all that, right? You lose. There's a lot of grieving comes into this. So, you know, hope doesn't require everything's gonna be okay. We talked a lot about the myth and blew it up to the idea that instead hope really can mean there are things worth doing, even though and while it's hard. Like, do hard things, Neil. Neil (1:01:05) Hundred percent. You do hard things to be able to make those hard things easier. So it's definitely there there is a there is a sense like he when he talked about the one miracle a day, right? The part of the stuff that Chris (1:01:16) That was awesome. Neil (1:01:17) it was such a great, great thing to to hear from his perspective, but it's like it's those ideas of, you know, finding blessings in the good things, you know, when you struggle and you and you overcome something, that's that's a huge thing that some people just don't I think it's very interesting when someone does something that's really, really positive and then you're like, Yeah, way to go and they're like, Well, it wasn't a big deal or I didn't do it, I was good like You have to cherish the good when it happens and I think that's part of resiliency is when you go through the bad and you make it, you almost celebrate those little wins and that gives you hope to do another challenge or overcome another thing. And I think that's what he kinda sees too, is when he has his hard times he's looking at the positive after he makes it through it or, Okay, it's gonna suck right now, but I'm looking at the outcome going forward and so I think that's that's a big part of the the his mindset is that the positive that goes with everything else. It's not just it's gonna suck for the next hour. I'm gonna go to this wedding and I wanna dance, but I can't, right? He talked about that. The uneven pavement caused issues Chris (1:02:21) Yeah, that's how we met. Neil (1:02:22) and so that was just an interesting thing. And I think that's something you have to understand from a resiliency standpoint, is you have to celebrate when you overcome something because that that's what gives your body that endorphin rush to be like, I can do this, okay. Well let's do something harder or let's try this again to make it more comfortable, right? Those are those things that that has to that has to happen. Kyle (1:02:44) Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, and you know for me listening to this, and again, not having to listen to the episode, he's a very positive he's got a very positive outlook on everything in life. And you know, I can see a direct correlation for how he built his, you know, fa success in the industry because you said he saw something that needed to be fixed and fixed it. He didn't see something broken, he saw something what it could be. And it to me that's kinda s my mind goes like this is how he sees his outlook on life. Yes, I'm dealing with this, but it's not broken. Chris (1:03:25) And Kyle (1:03:26) I can I can get past this. Chris (1:03:29) Yeah, and absolutely. Yeah, you know, and and I think you know something that we didn't really get to talk about. We just there's always time. I mean, I should do our Joe Rogan three hours. Would you guys hang with us for three hours? We could actually get to Kyle (1:03:39) Okay. Chris (1:03:41) enough stuff, you know, and actually have a full conversation about it because we didn't get to talk about how how you get there, right? Like I I've been in in in a part of the journey of people, and this is not pretty at front at on the front end, guys. I mean what you're seeing is a polished result of going through some stuff, you know. And and Hunter, you know, he he will probably go in and out of, you know, stuff, you know, challenges with emotionally accepting chronic pain and stuff. But the point that I'm making is, you know, you can be all hopeful and positive, but if you're have if you're if you're dealing with a chronic pain issue or, you know, you can identify with these things, understand, man, it don't don't be hard on yourself. It is it this is it's hard to accept this. It's hard to grieve this. It's hard to live with this. You might not want to do that. Suicide isn't an option because it's a permanent solution to a pro part time problem, but it feels different with chronic pain. It it it it you do have to find a way to live. and and that's, you know, we didn't get to see the front end of that with Hunter. We get to see the back end. Right. So my goodness, yeah, that was the only two shows, but we had a lot to cover because of the current events and those current events I think I'm gonna make into shows just because you know, we haven't done a substance show in a little while though anyway, Kyle, have we? Or Neil. I don't I don't think we have. Yeah, so that'll be cool. Neil (1:05:15) I don't think we have either. Chris (1:05:17) Yeah, it's been a minute. It's been a minute since we've done substance abuse and we're gonna talk about Kratom and Weed with a little bit more detail and I am excited to talk about the Nan the Clancy case. She is getting final court hearings, I think, are today. This is by the way, the case is wrapping up and yeah, we're gonna spend some time next time, I think next week for sure talking about it. I gotta make sure that we got Casey on the episodes that we were talking about 'cause I want her to be on that. But Yeah, closing thoughts, closing comments, parting wishes. the practical question for the episode that we were just talking about, that we do a segment where we talk to you through the screen. Can you accept the reality of today? Question. It's easy to think you, the listener, about today and say, yes, I accept today, but do you but can you really accept the reality of today without giving up what it is that we're talking about? The idea of hope. Closing thoughts, closing comments on August 2026. We got football season. What you think, guys? Neil (1:06:41) Ready for it? Chris (1:06:43) Yep. Any other cloth what Kyle (1:06:43) Yep. Big weekend. Neil (1:06:45) I think the Panthers look actually pretty decent this year, Kyle. There might be some little bit of hope. Little bit of hope. Kyle (1:06:51) Aye, hey. I have high hopes. Chris (1:06:54) They they've had hope drained out of them for years now though, O'Neil. Sorry, Kyle. Kyle (1:06:57) Ha ha ha Neil (1:06:58) Yeah, I know the p Panthers and the Steelers are in the same boat. It's okay. We can all cry together. Chris (1:07:02) That is not true. Stealers are kicking it this year, man. I'm so glad you got to pick your actual team. We won't have to listen to three hundred and sixty five days of whining. Kyle (1:07:12) Did he get a Pittsburgh player? Neil (1:07:15) No, absolutely not. Chris (1:07:17) Yeah. Kyle (1:07:17) Ha ha ha. Chris (1:07:21) well, I tell you what, we might have a wideout, a certain DK Metcalf that might catch a few over the tops, a few little bombs, catch little touchdowns, I'm telling ya. Alright, listen, this has been Through a Therapist Eyes, the August month in review. We're gonna fire up next week as we try to bring you free content about mental health and substance abuse. Until then, take care. Be well.